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Recent Breakup
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08-10-2015 4:25pm#1Hi all,
just looking to see some opinions on this, especially if anyone has any experience in a similar situation. Just on what happened, if there's anything I should/shouldn't do (or have done), and what to do next.
So myself and my girlfriend of 4 years have recently broken up. We're both mid-twenties. An opportunity came up for her to go travelling around Oz/NZ and SE Asia with friends, and I'm currently finishing up a contract that meant I couldn't go. She's gone in total for about 5 months.
We both enjoy travelling, so despite it being a long time I wasn't going to stop her. I had started to make my own plans to go to Canada over the new year or something like that for a couple of months to coincide with the end of her trip. The group she's gone with is a bunch of (single) girls, I wouldn't really be comfortable trying to tag along anyway.
Because of how long we're apart, and the type of trip she's on (backpacking with a bunch of girls), we're still fairly young... I brought up something along the lines of an "open relationship"-type suggestion, to see if she would want to do that. It would be a two-way thing, she wouldn't have to stress about kissing someone if out on a pub crawl or the likes, and neither would I when I was away. It wouldn't really interest me here in Ireland, i.e. I wouldn't be out on dates or anything here....we're still in the relationship, but if I then head off abroad I'd be entitled to do the same if we agreed on it beforehand.
She initially thought it sounded like an alright idea, but not long after freaked out, and said no way. She had one friend that brought up that she thought I was trying to break up with her (understandable thought process if not knowing what I mean....that wasn't my intention at all though). So I had to explain that to her (took quite a while!!), and for the two weeks before she left we were both under the impression that it was a non-runner, and we just stick with the relationship as is (i.e. completely faithful, all good), which I was fine with. I didn't mind what way we did it, I just wanted to see what was best for us.
She'd a trip over to the UK to meet some family a few days before jetting off to Oz, and in that time talked to her cousins etc. and came back after taking their advice and said that she had changed her mind, and thought that it was a good idea. I was a little bit annoyed, but ultimately if she thought it was an alright idea, and I thought it was an alright idea, then why not.
She had discussed the conditions at every time point through all this. I had thought sex was fine, but she had a big problem with it. Always said no way, I can't imagine you doing that and I don't want to do that either. So I said fine, no sex, and she was happy, and I was happy. It was basically just supposed to be if you're out drunk on a pub crawl etc. and someone's flirting with you, you don't have to feel guilty for a kiss. So that's what we agreed on, and left it at that.
So anyway, about a month into the trip, she's after jumping into bed with someone after a night out. Rang me the day after and told me.
It's not the physical act that freaks me out (hence why I would've been alright if "agreed" beforehand...this may seem odd to people, my friends have said it, but I am 99.9% sure of this that I'd be fine), but the lack of respect to me, the breaking of trust, and in someways the hypocrisy that she was saying "there's no way I'd do that" before she left, has all left me fairly....disappointed (not sure if right word?).
So I've broke it off with her. She's distraught, and I do genuinely believe she's sorry. Nothing in the 4 years before this has really made me suspicious that something like this could happen. It is a bit of a giant slap in the face though now, because it did happen.
We've still been talking for the 2 weeks since. Only short messages, we've tried to talk it out a bit, but it's too much to ask given I won't see her for about another 3 months.
I've basically said to leave it, get on with the trips, and we can try and discuss it in person in 3 months time....
I think that's about it, apologies for the essay.
So what do I do now? I don't think you go from normal girlfriend of 4 years to complete cheater overnight, but I can't get my head round why this happened (her....explanation, is that she was drunk, and when drunk "thought that it would be OK" - when she rang me the next day, sober, she was panicking and knew that it wasn't OK).
So there's part of me that wants to forgive, cos 4 years is a long time. But at the same time, I can get pretty worked up over the lack of respect etc. and feel that this is it, it's too much to ask to go back to normal, and I won't feel very....good towards her.
Was it a silly idea from the start? I honestly went with good intentions...
Has anyone successfully resumed a relationship after something like this? Or is it best to cut ties?
Currently I'm not sorting it out over the phone. We're too far away and I'm not bothering worrying about what she's doing on her nights out. Like I said, it's about 3 months until we see each other. I've said I'll see her then and we can try and discuss it and see what outcome we have. Not sure if that's the right thing to do though.
Any feedback appreciated. Thanks people.0
Comments
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So you wanted an open relationship and then your girlfriend went and did just that and then you broke up with her? You said you were ok with the sex bit but are annoyed that ye subsequently agreed not to but she went ahead anyway?
And you are not annoyed about the physical sex act she had with someone else, more the "lack of respect" is what's annoying you?
In fairness, there's a lot of mixed messages in there. I think you were right to break up - you liked the idea of you having an open relationship but not her it appears?
What do you do? Do nothing. See if she will take you back when she returns.0 -
Calling her a complete cheater is a little rich when you were after putting the idea in her head.
One sentence stuck out for me,
"... but if I then head off abroad I'd be entitled to do the same if we agreed on it beforehand."
It just sounds really cold; an entitlement to be with other women to balance the books. Can't see this relationship going anywhere.0 -
Sounds to me like she wasn't "The One" anyway the way you talk about the whole thing to her and in your post. Let her get on with her life and you get on with your life without restrictions.
When you both meet the right person you wont be so casual about the relationship, you'll know you want to be together exclusively.0 -
Don't blame you for being annoyed one bit.
Complete double standards by her.
Ask yourself these two questions:
Would she be so forgiving if it was the other way around?
Is it worth salvaging four years of a relationship for?0 -
OP here.
I'm glad I asked now as people are putting forward POVs that I hadn't thought of at all. I'll try and address points raised...So you wanted an open relationship and then your girlfriend went and did just that and then you broke up with her? You said you were ok with the sex bit but are annoyed that ye subsequently agreed not to but she went ahead anyway?
And you are not annoyed about the physical sex act she had with someone else, more the "lack of respect" is what's annoying you?
In fairness, there's a lot of mixed messages in there. I think you were right to break up - you liked the idea of you having an open relationship but not her it appears?
What do you do? Do nothing. See if she will take you back when she returns.
I suggested it to her, as I know this sort of than can (and did) happen. I've seen it before when people are apart. I only suggested it as a completely mutual thing. If she wasn't happy with any of it, then I was happy with that. And she wasn't happy with either of us hopping into bed with anyone.
It couldn't have been clearer to me that hopping into bed with anyone would be an option that was "OK". We agreed on that, mutually.
I didn't like the idea of an uneven open relationship at all. We had discussed it, and agreed that for it to be fair we'd have to stick to the same rules. I'd be completely fine with her out on a pub crawl shifting someone.
My train of thought was "there's a chance this could happen, so if we're up front about it beforehand, it won't be as bad after".
I'm a bit lost with the last point. She gets into bed with someone else and I have to hope she'll take me back? I've been here at home, working. If there was any confusion with it she could've asked rather than acting and talking later.frostyjacks wrote: »Calling her a complete cheater is a little rich when you were after putting the idea in her head.
One sentence stuck out for me,
"... but if I then head off abroad I'd be entitled to do the same if we agreed on it beforehand."
It just sounds really cold; an entitlement to be with other women to balance the books. Can't see this relationship going anywhere.
Point taken, but I'd personally disagree....like I tried to explain above, we had discussed this and mutually agreed what was and wasn't OK. I don't think I "put the idea in her head"....once she said she wasn't OK with jumping into bed with someone, I said that's absolutely fine and that was that, and I knew I wouldn't be OK with doing it if I was away.
Again, like I said above, it was to be a completely mutual thing. Entitled might be the wrong word....I just looked at it as "what's fair for her is fair for me". That was what it was intended as.
The relationship up until this point was fine (believe it or not!) and I've asked her that since, was there anything leading up to this, and she says no/there's nothing on her mind, just that it was a mistake.Sounds to me like she wasn't "The One" anyway the way you talk about the whole thing to her and in your post. Let her get on with her life and you get on with your life without restrictions.
When you both meet the right person you wont be so casual about the relationship, you'll know you want to be together exclusively.
I can see what you mean. This was only brought up/suggested because of circumstance though. If we were both in Ireland I wouldn't have brought this up at all. It's not something I would want as we'd be fine with each other.
It was more.....trying to talk about what would be best for this situation, mutually. We agreed on what was OK and what wasn't, and by my reasoning what's happened wasn't OK.
Perhaps it was too casual, but if she felt that she could've told me...MrMojoRising wrote: »Don't blame you for being annoyed one bit.
Complete double standards by her.
Ask yourself these two questions:
Would she be so forgiving if it was the other way around?
Is it worth salvaging four years of a relationship for?
That's more along the lines of my friends' reasoning so far.....
We've talked about it before, and said if this was to happen we both think we'd break up (as I mentioned above, I've seen this happen before with distance in our group of friends, so when it did this discussion came up). However, it's easy to say something like that, and I honestly can't tell...I really think she'd be feeling the exact same as me, that she feels something is really wrong but the 4 years definitely means something, so there's conflicting feelings on what to do.
Is it worth salvaging four years of a relationship for... Again I'm not sure, as I said in the OP I'd like to hear if anyone has done this or did they find that they couldn't really let it go. I'm not the jealous type, but where's the trust in the relationship if I don't think she'll honour her word.
Hopefully that all makes sense!0 -
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Tbh you've a right cheek to be annoyed at her when the whole thing was your idea in the first place. it's probably right that ye are broken up, the whole situation sounds like an absolute mess from start to finish. Now leave her to enjoy her next 3 months over there and don't be badgering her and making her feel guilty. You both had such a complicated arrangement that it was bound to end in disaster.0
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Reading comprehension is a big issue here for some posters, because from what I read, you both agreed that while kissing was ok, sex wasn't. That's a pretty simple agreement, since she wasn't comfortable with you doing it and therefore the agreement for both of you would be no sex. But then she goes ahead and does it, despite the agreement. That doesn't go away, it never will. If you were both mature enough to talk this out to what essentially equates to a contract, you're both bound by the terms you mutually agreed to. It's not traditional, maybe even a little taboo, but there was still a contract between the two of you. She voided it by creating a limitation on you that she didn't, herself, stick to. Unfortunately you can't fix that, especially when she's tried to excuse it with the 'I was drunk' idea. That doesn't work. Sober or drunk, she had no right to do that because she wouldn't have liked you to do it. It's pretty open and shut; don't even attempt to salvage this. She's proven she can't stick to her guns and there's a level of one-sided thinking on her part - that kind of thinking extends into other facets of life. By all means speak to her when she gets back, hash this out, but the conclusion should be; you voided our agreement, you're not mature enough for me, you cheated and tried to excuse yourself, it's done.0
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Tbh you've a right cheek to be annoyed at her when the whole thing was your idea in the first place. it's probably right that ye are broken up, the whole situation sounds like an absolute mess from start to finish. Now leave her to enjoy her next 3 months over there and don't be badgering her and making her feel guilty. You both had such a complicated arrangement that it was bound to end in disaster.
Granted I brought it up, but none of this was forced. It was a discussion brought up, and we mutually agreed on what was OK and not OK. As I said, For pretty much the two weeks before departure we were both happy to not do it. Then she came back from the UK and had a change of mind.
And again, granted...I can now see how it's a bit of a mess! But that wasn't my intention, like I said above it was a discussion I brought up because of the circumstance we were in. I thought it'd make sense as an option, so wanted to see what she thought.
That's pretty much what I'm doing. She has to get on with the rest of her trip and I don't want to make her feel guilty.
For me, it wasn't complicated at all. We had discussed it and mutually came to a conclusion. It couldn't be clearer for me that hopping into bed with someone wasn't OK.0 -
To be honest op if you can't manage to be faithful for 5 months apart after being together for 4 years you clearly aren't right for each other.
It's really weird either of you even thought of what if you meet someone scenario's- and made an agreement on what was/wasn't ok.
Adult relationships are built on trust and respect...there will always be hard times when it's easy to meet someone else, but the trick is to want to be with that person more than you want a few mins of fun. Both the suggestion of an open relationship and her actions since would make me question if those things exist with you two.0 -
Not quite sure how after four years together you are both incapable of remaining faithful for just a few short months that you'll be away and all for some silly, meaningless flings abroad. That's honestly very sad.
As for what to do, it seems like you've already made up your mind about the fate of the relationship. The fact you've posted this thread is evidence you're obviously not okay with the whole situation to the point it'll probably remain that way and the relationship won't go back to how it was before all of this. Yes, she's a cheater and there's no excusing that fact, it's disgusting, but at least she was honest about it which makes it more difficult along with the fact that you're actually the one who initially proposed that silly idea. It makes you wonder, though, that had you never proposed that idea would she still have been as honest if she had cheated anyway?
Overall, I think it'd be pointless continuing from here. Go enjoy meaningless flings with randoms like you seem to desperately want because there's no forgetting what's happened here. Take it as a learning experience and move on. Consider and discuss everything in much more detail next time.
Jesus. What has the dating world become. Does anyone have self restraint and integrity anymore? It's depressing.0 -
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Well you certainly brought all this on yourself. Quite frankly if the fact of having your girlfriend sleeping with some random guy didnt bother you before she left then like some other posters have said she certainly wasnt the one!0
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Just to reply to the points raised...DukeOfTheSharp wrote: »Reading comprehension is a big issue here for some posters, because from what I read, you both agreed that while kissing was ok, sex wasn't. That's a pretty simple agreement, since she wasn't comfortable with you doing it and therefore the agreement for both of you would be no sex. But then she goes ahead and does it, despite the agreement. That doesn't go away, it never will. If you were both mature enough to talk this out to what essentially equates to a contract, you're both bound by the terms you mutually agreed to. It's not traditional, maybe even a little taboo, but there was still a contract between the two of you. She voided it by creating a limitation on you that she didn't, herself, stick to. Unfortunately you can't fix that, especially when she's tried to excuse it with the 'I was drunk' idea. That doesn't work. Sober or drunk, she had no right to do that because she wouldn't have liked you to do it. It's pretty open and shut; don't even attempt to salvage this. She's proven she can't stick to her guns and there's a level of one-sided thinking on her part - that kind of thinking extends into other facets of life. By all means speak to her when she gets back, hash this out, but the conclusion should be; you voided our agreement, you're not mature enough for me, you cheated and tried to excuse yourself, it's done.
This is pretty much my initial line of thought (about the "contract").
I know it's not traditional and know it could work for me in this scenario (if agreed upon), if she wasn't happy with it she should've told me.
It is interesting to see how many other people see it in different ways though. Could explain it...
I'm not sure I can be that cut-throat though with your point at the end. That's why I'm looking for opinions, so thanks.notjustsweet wrote: »To be honest op if you can't manage to be faithful for 5 months apart after being together for 4 years you clearly aren't right for each other.
It's really weird either of you even thought of what if you meet someone scenario's- and made an agreement on what was/wasn't ok.
Adult relationships are built on trust and respect...there will always be hard times when it's easy to meet someone else, but the trick is to want to be with that person more than you want a few mins of fun. Both the suggestion of an open relationship and her actions since would make me question if those things exist with you two.
It's not just time. It's the type of trip she's on, it's who she's with etc. It's backpacking, meeting new people at hostels, going out drinking (with her friends which I'm pretty sure are all single).
Like I said, I've been on a trip before and had this happen with a friend (and yes that's a friend, not me). That relationship seemed rock solid before the trip, we were out for a few drinks and my friend disappeared with some girl...
I've seen it happen with my own eyes, so felt I was just being realistic (as in, this could happen to anyone, so best to bring it up beforehand).
I get what you're saying, and that is the perfect scenario. But I felt this wasn't a perfect scenario (as in the trip isn't!) and wanted to discuss with her to see if she felt an "open relationship" (with the conditions we agreed on) would be an alright idea, and she did.
I take your point though, it definitely goes against the norms of being a couple, but I felt it was a valid option available. My way of looking at it is that by discussing beforehand that this type of thing "could" happen, and agreeing to what you think as a couple is and isn't OK, you're not breaking the respect and trust. Might seem strange but that's how I see it.You Mirin? wrote: »Not quite sure how after four years together you are both incapable of remaining faithful for just a few short months that you'll be away and all for some silly, meaningless flings abroad. That's honestly very sad.
As for what to do, it seems like you've already made up your mind about the fate of the relationship. The fact you've posted this thread is evidence you're obviously not okay with the whole situation to the point it'll probably remain that way and the relationship won't go back to how it was before all of this. Yes, she's a cheater and there's no excusing that fact, it's disgusting, but at least she was honest about it which makes it more difficult along with the fact that you're actually the one who initially proposed that silly idea. It makes you wonder, though, that had you never proposed that idea would she still have been as honest if she had cheated anyway?
Overall, I think it'd be pointless continuing from here. Go enjoy meaningless flings with randoms like you seem to desperately want because there's no forgetting what's happened here. Take it as a learning experience and move on. Consider and discuss everything in much more detail next time.
Jesus. What has the dating world become. Does anyone have self restraint and integrity anymore? It's depressing.
I've seen it before. Like I said, I honestly think it could happen to anyone, especially when drink, being surrounded with single people, and being so far from home is involved. Doesn't mean it's right though. But if you go through it beforehand, I think you're negating some of the trust issues etc.
I don't agree, and if anything I think I'd feel the opposite to what you're implying right now - that I've already decided about the relationship (mood does change though!). I posted this thread to get some opinions, as they'll help me to shape mine.
You may think it's a silly idea, and I may ultimately end up thinking that too. But like I said, from what I've seen happen with a friend, it seemed reasonable enough to bring up as a mutual discussion.
"It makes you wonder, though, that had you never proposed that idea would she still have been as honest if she had cheated anyway?"
I'm not quite sure I'm catching this right...are you saying, if we'd never discussed the "agreement" in the first place, that if she cheated she mightn't tell me?
Not sure what relevance that has, but I'd imagine she would be.
Again, not in agreement, it's not as simple as "wanting to enjoy flings with randoms". If that was the case, I'd have broken up with her before all this!
As regards to the what has the dating world become, can't comment for everyone. Like I've mentioned, a combination of a few factors about this trip led me to think it might be a worthwhile discussion. Restraint and integrity can definitely slip (drink/friends/being away from home/duration apart), so felt it best to discuss it beforehand.MayoSalmon wrote: »Well you certainly brought all this on yourself. Quite frankly if the fact of having your girlfriend sleeping with some random guy didnt bother you before she left then like some other posters have said she certainly wasnt the one!
I brought this on myself? I think I probably know what you mean, but I still don't think it's fair. We mutually agreed on something and that wasn't stuck to.
Granted that might seem pretty odd. I'll try to explain...
What I mean is, I don't get caught up with sex as a physical act. I've seen threads in here before of people who say "I've just found out my new girlfriend has slept with 10 people in the past year and I don't feel OK with it" - and that just seems madness to me.
In the weeks before we were seeing each other/going out, my (now ex) girlfriend could've slept with someone else. That isn't an issue for me.
If we agreed here that sex was OK, I'd just look at it as similar to that. It was agreed upon, she was out and it happened. By agreeing that it's OK, you take away the issue of deceit.
However, if not agreed upon, I have a problem with going behind someone's back. It's the mental part of it that gets me.
Hopefully that makes sense...it does in my head but might seem off the wall! If that means she's not "the one" then that means I'll never find "the one"...as I'm 99.9% sure I'll always think that way.
Hopefully that covers comments so far.
Very tired!0 -
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The fact that 5 months away is considered a long time makes it sound like the pair of ye would be pretty weak willed.
5 months is not that bad.0 -
If you forget the agreement part... Park that for a minute...that's concious and sober...
By proposing this in the first place you signalled that you wouldn't mind her ****ing someone else when abroad.
She very likely remembered this in the back of her mind when she was drinking.
She said she would never ever do this and now she has.... She has surprised herself likely....
If it were an act of deceit she wouldn't have told you.
Honestly you both have a part to play in it.0 -
She didn't like the idea of you having sex with someone else but had no problems doing it herself. Not good.
Would I be right, OP, in saying your idea wasn't to give yourself a free pass to ride your way from Nova Scotia to Ottowa, but to send your gf off without guilt on her girls' trip?0 -
I get why you are pissed off OP. Totally do. Ye had an agreement and you trusted her to stick to it but she didn't. I think that in her drunken state she probably reasoned with herself that it'd be ok seeing as you are the one who said you'd be ok with ye sleeping with other ppl. But we know our brains turn to mush when drunk so it's easier to think in black and white and no colours of grey at all. In hindsight, ye probably should have taken an all or nothing approach. Ye either stay faithfull or ye can go the whole way, no middle ground.
Any kind of an open relationship wouldn't be for me at all. I think it'd be quite damaging especially one as long as yours and your gf's.
What were ye're plans for the future before all this happened? Had ye discussed marriage and babies and all that? Our son was born within 4yrs of my husband and I getting together and he was very much a planned baby. So it's not outside the realms of possibility if ye had plans to move in together etc when her trip and your trip were over! The relationship is definitely salvageable but only do it if it'll be worth it coz it won't be easy. Before this, could u see yourself settling down with her?0 -
Just carry on as you are I reckon. The two of you are single for now, both of you go out and enjoy yourselves and do what single people do, then when she gets back if you both still want to you can meet up and maybe get back together.
"You can flirt and kiss and be all over someone on a night out when drunk, but once you're nice and worked up and horny say "no thanks, no sex please" was a really really really fvcking stupid idea. For so many reasons. Either the two of you are free to be with other people, or you're not. But you probably see that now. You live and learn. No offense but ye sound kind of like kids playing a grown up game without knowing all the rules and inevitably when people do that someone gets hit in the eye. Things like this actually can work, but you HAVE to operate a "don't ask, don't tell" policy, and you can't limp into it with unrealistic conditions.
Yeah look, just consider yourselves single for the time being, then meet up and see if you've any interest in having a relationship again when she gets back.0 -
Would you have even come up with the whole contract scenario if you weren't going away yourself? Methinks not.0
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I understand your frustration.
You suggested A
She said no and suggested B
You both agreed on B
She went and did A within a month
If you wanted to apply contract law to your situation, once she rejected A and suggested B instead, A is off the table. So she broke the contract.
What I don’t understand (and maybe this is my narrow mindedness) is how two people with a four year history cannot envision 5 months apart without hopping into bed with someone else. I also don't understand (again, possibly down to narrow mindedness or difference of personality) how you could possibly ever have been ok with her sleeping with someone else. Think about it ... flirting, kissing, touching, taking off their clothes, having intimate sex, maybe having it again in the morning, cuddling for the day ... this is your GIRLFRIEND? The woman you love, no? And you'd be ok with that?
I can see what you were trying - I think you had an underlying fear that she was going to do it anyway, so you applied pre-conditions and told yourself you were ok with it, to make it forgivable in advance.
The arrangement, as you have found, is messy beyond belief, and unlikely to end well. Doesn't sound to me like you guys are ready to commit or settle with each other if a few months apart has you looking to bed hop rather than just do long distance. Temptations are everywhere, yes, possibly even more so with distance and the nature of her travelling and drinking and everyone she'll meet. But would you not have considered testing your commitment on both sides by even trying to remain faithful to each other?
I echo the advice that said leave it as is for now, keep in touch if you like, act single, reassess when she's home.
But honestly, if you are with someone and you're happy for her to sleep around while she's on an extended trip, you have to ask yourself, do you feel enough for her? Because I can tell you now my bf would FREAK if I so much as suggested anything to that effect. He wouldn't be able to bear it.0 -
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She's cheated and she was wrong do it - there's no doubt about that, but this is not a typical, run-of-the-mill cheating situation.
If my boyfriend of almost 5 years suggested we have an open relationship instead of remaining faithful for 5 short months, I'd be hurt that he'd even think that was a good idea. Many, many people manage to remain faithful, believe it or not and 5 months is not that long, particularly after 4 years of going out. Yes, I know from experience there's lots of sleeping around while back-packing but not everyone is encapable of keeping their pants on and resisting if they're in a relationship - it IS humanly possible.
In the back of her mind somewhere, she might have thought her boyfriend was okay with her being with someone else while in a relationship - more okay than other boyfriends might be anyway because, let's be honest, you're the one who suggested it originally and stated you'd be okay with the girl you love sleeping with someone else and for you to do the same when you head away. She didn't agree to it and she did it anyway and she was wrong to do that but you can't insist your whole set up was in any way regular and this was simply a case of her cheating.
Either way I think you're better off apart. It's beyond messy now and nothing good can come of this.0 -
I think it's telling that you aren't disgusted by the fact that she slept with someone else, but rather that she did it behind your back. If you're happy with her sleeping around with your knowledge, you're better off breaking up and finding someone else that you'd be so crazy about that it would destroy you.
I don't really think you have a comeback. Yes, you agreed not to have sex, but mentally you were alright with it - not much moral high ground here0 -
There are absolutely no mixed messages there. They discussed the idea of an open relationship. She said she wasn't happy with it. In the end they agreed that they could only kiss other people but not have sex. She had sex with someone. Therefore she is a cheater and untrustworthy. It's quite simple.
That's why I posted this thread/broke it off/am disappointed. I felt it was pretty much this clear to me. Seeing how many people think otherwise though is a bit of an eye opener.Barely There wrote: »She's not capable of lasting a month without jumping into bed with another bloke.
Doesn't really sound like a keeper.
She says it'a drunken mistake and I believe her. Still doesn't make it right. She hasn't done this in the 4 years in Ireland, so that counts for something...I think?The fact that 5 months away is considered a long time makes it sound like the pair of ye would be pretty weak willed.
5 months is not that bad.
As I've said, it was more than just time that led to me thinking it was be a good idea to have a mutual discussion about this (time was one factor though). I've explained this in a previous post.zeffabelli wrote: »If you forget the agreement part... Park that for a minute...that's concious and sober...
By proposing this in the first place you signalled that you wouldn't mind her ****ing someone else when abroad.
She very likely remembered this in the back of her mind when she was drinking.
She said she would never ever do this and now she has.... She has surprised herself likely....
If it were an act of deceit she wouldn't have told you.
Honestly you both have a part to play in it.
But the agreement part is the crux of the issue. If we hadn't brought it up at all, and she kissed someone, I'd be pretty annoyed. Because I'd be under the impression that it is not OK and she did it anyway.
We had a discussion and mutually agreed on what was OK.
I can see what you mean with the 2nd part of your post, bar seeing how I have a part to play in it. As I've said in other posts, it couldn't have been clearer for me what was OK and what wasn't OK. Deceit mightn't be the right word, but still it was a "wrong" decision and act.
None of this was one-sided, it was a mutual discussion and agreement. She went against that. Maybe it's something I'll see in time but for now, can't agree.She didn't like the idea of you having sex with someone else but had no problems doing it herself. Not good.
Would I be right, OP, in saying your idea wasn't to give yourself a free pass to ride your way from Nova Scotia to Ottowa, but to send your gf off without guilt on her girls' trip?
Pretty much yeah that was my logic. That it could happen on this trip, and for it to be a fair/mutual thing we'd both be able to. But it was that "this could happen so best to talk about it before hand".
If I wanted a "free pass" I'd have broken up with her before all this. That was not what I wanted.nikkibikki wrote: »I get why you are pissed off OP. Totally do. Ye had an agreement and you trusted her to stick to it but she didn't. I think that in her drunken state she probably reasoned with herself that it'd be ok seeing as you are the one who said you'd be ok with ye sleeping with other ppl. But we know our brains turn to mush when drunk so it's easier to think in black and white and no colours of grey at all. In hindsight, ye probably should have taken an all or nothing approach. Ye either stay faithfull or ye can go the whole way, no middle ground.
Any kind of an open relationship wouldn't be for me at all. I think it'd be quite damaging especially one as long as yours and your gf's.
What were ye're plans for the future before all this happened? Had ye discussed marriage and babies and all that? Our son was born within 4yrs of my husband and I getting together and he was very much a planned baby. So it's not outside the realms of possibility if ye had plans to move in together etc when her trip and your trip were over! The relationship is definitely salvageable but only do it if it'll be worth it coz it won't be easy. Before this, could u see yourself settling down with her?
WRT to you first paragraph, that's fairly spot on, she's saying it was a drunken mistake and was confused. And I agree with what you say, easier to see in hindsight though. I was OK with an "all" approach (and just as OK with a "nothing" approach), but it was herself that wasn't, and hence why I'm kinda annoyed about the whole thing.
I get you, and think I've seen that first hand! As I've mentioned, this isn't the normal day-to-day of our relationship though, it was brought up due to the circumstance.
Plans for the future were...I'm not sure. We'd talked about everything but both felt a bit young for marriage etc. - it's something a couple/few years down the line. We're both not long out of college and I might go back.
It was a steady, serious relationship, and as I mentioned in a previous post there's nothing I felt leading up to this, and I've asked her and she said no there was nothing on her mind, it was a stupid drunken mistake.
I guess I could see myself settling down with her before all this. I probably could after, but I want to make sure I'm doing whats right for myself and right for her (hence posting to look for opinions/help!)Just carry on as you are I reckon. The two of you are single for now, both of you go out and enjoy yourselves and do what single people do, then when she gets back if you both still want to you can meet up and maybe get back together.
"You can flirt and kiss and be all over someone on a night out when drunk, but once you're nice and worked up and horny say "no thanks, no sex please" was a really really really fvcking stupid idea. For so many reasons. Either the two of you are free to be with other people, or you're not. But you probably see that now. You live and learn. No offense but ye sound kind of like kids playing a grown up game without knowing all the rules and inevitably when people do that someone gets hit in the eye. Things like this actually can work, but you HAVE to operate a "don't ask, don't tell" policy, and you can't limp into it with unrealistic conditions.
Yeah look, just consider yourselves single for the time being, then meet up and see if you've any interest in having a relationship again when she gets back.
Think that's what's happening for the most part anyway.
Your second paragraph, honestly, that's what I thought, hence why I was OK with everything....I felt I wanted it to be mutual though and she'd stick to her word. We'd said it'd be a "don't ask, don't tell" policy too, so we were nearly there with what you're saying...but yeah, the limping into it was a bad move. I haven't much experience in this, if I'd have known then I probably should've said either all or nothing....but I didn't want to feel like I was forcing anything, cos that's not what I wanted, and she attached that condition, so I wanted to respect what she wanted and we agreed to her condition.
Last part: rings the most true. Most likely what will happen.Would you have even come up with the whole contract scenario if you weren't going away yourself? Methinks not.
It would've been a different discussion, but I do think I would've brought something up along the lines of "this can happen while you're away, do you want to talk about it and make sure we know what you're getting yourself into" etc. That has the possibility to be more one-sided, so granted, with me going away it was easier to have the discussion as it was a mutual thing that would have more impact on the two of us.What I don’t understand (and maybe this is my narrow mindedness) is how two people with a four year history cannot envision 5 months apart without hopping into bed with someone else. I also don't understand (again, possibly down to narrow mindedness or difference of personality) how you could possibly ever have been ok with her sleeping with someone else. Think about it ... flirting, kissing, touching, taking off their clothes, having intimate sex, maybe having it again in the morning, cuddling for the day ... this is your GIRLFRIEND? The woman you love, no? And you'd be ok with that?
I can see what you were trying - I think you had an underlying fear that she was going to do it anyway, so you applied pre-conditions and told yourself you were ok with it, to make it forgivable in advance.
The arrangement, as you have found, is messy beyond belief, and unlikely to end well. Doesn't sound to me like you guys are ready to commit or settle with each other if a few months apart has you looking to bed hop rather than just do long distance. Temptations are everywhere, yes, possibly even more so with distance and the nature of her travelling and drinking and everyone she'll meet. But would you not have considered testing your commitment on both sides by even trying to remain faithful to each other?
I echo the advice that said leave it as is for now, keep in touch if you like, act single, reassess when she's home.
But honestly, if you are with someone and you're happy for her to sleep around while she's on an extended trip, you have to ask yourself, do you feel enough for her? Because I can tell you now my bf would FREAK if I so much as suggested anything to that effect. He wouldn't be able to bear it.
As regards to the first part of your post (contract), that's how I see it. Good to see other opinions though.
Second part, I've tried to explain in a previous post as to why/how I'm OK with it. I've explained before the other factors that came into my mind that made me bring this up as a topic of discussion, it wasn't just the 5 months.
Also, this is a part where not knowing us/our relationship kind of impacts on people's judgement.
It was discussed/implied that the "intimate sex, doing it the next morning, cuddling" wasn't OK. It was meant as out on a pub crawl, drunk etc., there's flirting, and it happens - means nothing. It's obviously pretty much non-enforcable, but I trust that if she wanted to do that, she'd break up with me, and vice-versa.
This "agreement" was meant to be for situations where you're on a night out etc. Trust me, we both knew this. If she/I was out looking for dates, that wouldn't be OK.
The underlying fear is yeah where I came from with this. It wasn't accusatory or anything, it was just "I've seen this before and think it can happen to anyone". It's just annoying that she didn't see it the same way.
I understand what you mean about trying to remain faithful. We've been away on trips apart before and no problems. This was brought up as a discussion though to see if mutually we thought there was something that would make it easier/more enjoyable/less stressful. It was basically a safety net, if something bad happens, don't feel guilty about it.
Might seem a bit mad, but that's that!
And yeah, honestly as I've explained in a previous post I can get over sex. If we'd agreed upon it, she could've done this, we'd have had "don't ask don't tell", and I could resume the normal relationship in the new year. Might seem weird, but I honestly feel that.
We honestly discuss EVERYTHING. And if she can't bear anything I'd expect her to tell me that. And that's the thing, this was brought up, granted, but wasn't shot down. It was a mutual thing.She's cheated and she was wrong do it - there's no doubt about that, but this is not a typical, run-of-the-mill cheating situation.
If my boyfriend of almost 5 years suggested we have an open relationship instead of remaining faithful for 5 short months, I'd be hurt that he'd even think that was a good idea. Many, many people manage to remain faithful, believe it or not and 5 months is not that long, particularly after 4 years of going out. Yes, I know from experience there's lots of sleeping around while back-packing but not everyone is encapable of keeping their pants on and resisting if they're in a relationship - it IS humanly possible.
In the back of her mind somewhere, she might have thought her boyfriend was okay with her being with someone else while in a relationship - more okay than other boyfriends might be anyway because, let's be honest, you're the one who suggested it originally and stated you'd be okay with the girl you love sleeping with someone else and for you to do the same when you head away. She didn't agree to it and she did it anyway and she was wrong to do that but you can't insist your whole set up was in any way regular and this was simply a case of her cheating.
Either way I think you're better off apart. It's beyond messy now and nothing good can come of this.
We discuss everything. If there's anything I bring up that hurts her, she lets me know, and vice-versa. If there's any concern in the relationship, discussion is massively important, and this was a concern I had so wanted to get her feelings on it.
I understand people remain faithful, but as I've seen some people don't. So I brought this up to have a discussion, and she agreed that it's a possibility, so we mutually agreed between ourselves.
I've explained as to why I'd be OK with it previously. Sorry if it's not clear but makes sense to me.
It may not be regular but as previously stated it was crystal clear to me what was OK and what wasn't OK.
Might seem odd, but I'd feel that if we hadn't discussed this at all, and she did this, it'd be the same thing. There's rights and wrongs in a relationship, we tried to define them for the circumstance we're in, and this was a wrong.laserlad2010 wrote: »I think it's telling that you aren't disgusted by the fact that she slept with someone else, but rather that she did it behind your back. If you're happy with her sleeping around with your knowledge, you're better off breaking up and finding someone else that you'd be so crazy about that it would destroy you.
I don't really think you have a comeback. Yes, you agreed not to have sex, but mentally you were alright with it - not much moral high ground here
Again, I felt this wasn't a normal circumstance (the trip in general). So tried to find a way that we could mutually agree on what would make it less stressful.
I've explained, and it mightn't be clear first off, but this was meant for pretty much this situation. It's not to go dating, go off sober looking for it. If either of us wanted to do that I honestly imagine we'd have the respect for each other to just break it off.
It was meant that if a drunken mistake happened, you could brush it off and not have to panic. Meaningless sex like that wouldn't destroy me, no, if agreed upon beforehand. There's a massive difference between those things to me.
I just find it to be a bit of a lack of respect to say that this won't happen, and then do it anyway. If being up front and saying it could happen, at least that's showing respect and honesty to the person, and some relationships might say "OK well in the circumstance if it could happen then we'll say it's OK and leave it at that", and other relationships might say "absolutely no way".
It's not about how crazy I am about her. That's my outlook on it in general.
So with the above I'd argue I do have a comeback. I was not mentally alright with her telling me one thing and doing another. She was aware of that, hence ringing me upset the day after to apologise. If I was alright with it and she honestly thought that, why apologise the next day.
Apologies for the essays all, just trying to hash out the points of it!0 -
What has happened has happened. here is what i think you should do.
Contact her one last time and tell her that she should spend the rest of her time considering herself single and enjoying her trip. You will be going away and will consider yourself single and enjoy your trip.
When you both get back, if you want to meet up and talk.
Which is pretty much what you were proposing I think.
One other thing, being drunk is not an excuse. Surely she has been drunk , out with friends, in the last four years and hasn't slept with someone. She will be out and drunk once she comes home also, will she sleep with someone then to. She slept with him because she wanted to, she needs to accept that.0 -
I know you have your reasons for why you suggested all of this as an option in the first place, and you've laid them out really well. But I was just pointing out (and others have too) that if this was all ok with you, and conceivable and acceptable at all, maybe you don't feel about this girl like you should ... and therefore the relationship isn't really worth saving.
You seem to employ a lot of cold logic, which is sometimes useful, but it completely discounts natural emotions generally involved with truly loving someone ... and jealousy at the thoughts of anyone else touching them, let alone sleeping with them, is usually involved in really, whole heartedly loving someone. The fact that you seem to be so logical about something you should be emotional about is what has us wondering if this is worth saving at all.
You specify above that sex was ok as long as it's not intimate, long winded sex with cuddles afterwards ... it baffles me the lines you drew. In your original proposal, had she said yes, was she allowed to have sex against a wall behind a nightclub but not bring him home? Was she allowed to bring him home but not have sex with him in the bed? Was she allowed to have sex in the bed but kick him out and ban cuddling? You don't "plan" these things in advance or how a scenario like that progresses. People can have casual one night stands but "spoon" all the next morning. What if she had slept with a random guy who started travelling with them and it became a regular thing?
I ask all of this because I don't think you really thought through what was going to be acceptable and what wasn't, and so it was never going to end well, even if she had agreed outright to it.
There was really too much confusion and room for error. The "don't ask don't tell" option is all well and good but would you guys honestly be able to sit down on a Sunday afternoon and have the chats and totally omit the fact that 2 hours beforehand you sent last night's one night stand out the door? Because if so, again, I don't think the feelings there are real, or they're certainly not conventional, in any case.
I think you need to take a break from her, maybe play the field yourself a bit, and really consider if this is the girl you see a future with.0 -
Not quoting Pookie's post but everything about "if you really love them you'd be crazy jealous so maybe the relationship isn't worth saving" can be paralleled with the attitudes people take towards their partners previous sexual history.
You get threads on here from people that can't get over the fact that their partner had sex with someone else and they're told to cope on and stop being a child and get over it.
Where is the "if you really loved them the thought of someone else touching and kissing and being intimate with them should make you insane" line of reasoning then.
Both instances same thing goes on. In both scenarios the person you love has been intimate in the same way with someone else. But no one suggests to the person that can think nothing of that that they probably don't really love that person. They're just an over jealous so and so that needs to straight up get over it.
My point is, that the idea that someone being OK with the person they are in a relationship being with someone else without getting jealous, is really just an adjustment to be in OK with that person having been with people before them, or having been with people during a break up, or whatever.
I wouldn't go along at all at all that the suggestion that because you are capable of going one step further and being OK with her being with someone else without being torn apart by jealousy in this agreed upon scenario means you must not love her. Some people are just less or more jealous than others. On one end, the people that simply can't get over the fact that anyone anywhere was ever intimate with thier partner, on the other people that can in more situations than most people, and everything in between. Extent of jealously isn't proportional to degree of love - they're very separate things.0 -
I suggested it to her, as I know this sort of than can (and did) happen. I've seen it before when people are apart. I only suggested it as a completely mutual thing. If she wasn't happy with any of it, then I was happy with that. And she wasn't happy with either of us hopping into bed with anyone.
It couldn't have been clearer to me that hopping into bed with anyone would be an option that was "OK". We agreed on that, mutually.
My train of thought was "there's a chance this could happen, so if we're up front about it beforehand, it won't be as bad after".
When you say you've seen it before, does that mean you've been cheated on or someone close to you in this situation? Are you describing this as a sort of sexual insurance policy?I'd be completely fine with her out on a pub crawl shifting someone.
I'm a bit lost with the last point. She gets into bed with someone else and I have to hope she'll take me back? I've been here at home, working. If there was any confusion with it she could've asked rather than acting and talking later.
So was she meant to call you in the middle of her pub crawl, shítfaced, shifting someone (which you were 100% ok with) to get clarity that she wasn't breaking any "rules" in your "contract" if she was inevitably going to take it further?
And on top of that, it wasn't ok for her in your contract to go looking for someone else intentionally, it just has to be in the moment, and only a certain moment with pre-agreed restricted sexual contact at that.
When I suggested she might take you back, it's because what you initiated and then how you reacted is such a mindfúck to a non-lawyer, I question why she would want to be controlled by your "rules" and "contracts".0 -
Yeah I'll stop posting full quotes as I even find it hard to read back on myselfI know...
True, I do kind of work off logic. I agree with what OneOfThem states in the post below yours, that pretty much applies to me. Not sure if I can help that? It might seem cold, it's not intended to be.
As I said before, I know it'd be pretty much non-enforcable, but that we'd know in ourselves where to draw the line. That's hypothetical though, there was a line drawn in this case and that line was no sex.
If in this hypothetical she started travelling with a random guy, I imagine she'd tell me, if it became a regular thing, that's pretty much starting another relationship, and if she's happy to do that, obviously I'd be upset, but then that's not the right person for me.
As I said, that's not the case here. Originally discussed, but she said no to it, so the confusion/room for error doesn't apply in my eyes. I've said multiple times it couldn't have been clearer to me not to jump into bed with anyone.
And again, I honestly think I could do that (about getting on with things after and getting back to normal) - otherwise if I wasn't sure I wouldn't have said it - for the reasons in the post below yours. Maybe not conventional, but I know my feelings are real.
If I could work solely off logic all the time, this thread wouldn't be here. I'm obviously pretty upset that this has happened when I initially tried to be open about it.
Indeed, I think a break is on the cards anyway.When you say...
I stated in a previous post that I've seen a friend do it when abroad and apart from their partner. Sexual insurance policy? Hadn't thought of it like that. Maybe you could look at it like that? Like I said, I looked at is as having an open discussion on potential pitfalls, after which we came to a mutual agreement.
Yup, was 100% OK with that. She could've tried to get in touch with me if she wanted, I imagine you're being a bit obtuse with that question though. I just try and look at it if I was in that situation, and if I was unsure (which in all honesty, she shouldn't have been, as I said, it's 100% clear to me that it wouldn't be OK) I'd err on the side of caution, tell the person I'm too drunk or something like that, and leave it at that. Talk/ask the next day if needed. And if I didn't do that and went all the way by mistake, I'd wake up thinking "oh **** I've messed up badly". So that's where we are, and that's what's happened.
Yup, I guess so. These pre-agreed restrictions that she came up with, yeah.
I initiated a discussion, and we came to a mutual agreement. There's no "controlling" here, I asked her if she wanted to do this and she said yes (with the conditions she suggested and I agreed to).0 -
You made an unworkable policy and it didn't work.
No surprises. Seriously.... Alcohol and sex... You know alcohol clouds judgement and yet you both agreed to basically something that makes no sense in the first place.
So you keep supporting your indignation with " but we agreed..." You agreement was unworkable ... The agreement was the mistake, not its breaking.
Also by coming up with idea in the first place it could be read as an indirect way of saying you want to sleep with other women and getting her permission to do so. So you kind of bit yourself in the ass.0 -
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In my opinion you were both very naive to make that agreement. You're adults now, granted you probably haven't been single since your late teens. Perhaps back then a quick snog in the pub and then moving on was the norm? As adults, not living at home etc, sexual behaviour such as kissing frequently leads to continued sexual behaviour later.
Whether or not it was right for you to be able to go five months without cheating, making up this rule of only kissing, no sex, was ridiculous. It should have been left at an 'open relationship; what you don't know won't hurt you'
And frankly, from the moment you even suggested to her firstly that you could both kiss people you shot yourself in the foot. There was no coming back from that, as you gave the indication that you were up for it with other girls, same as you suggesting Sex with others was ok too.
Stay broken up, at least for the duration of her trip!0 -
You gave her the chance buddy, preagreement doesn't really mean much in the moment you know maybe after the person may feel a little guilty... Bit of a stinger for you.. Best thing for you to do is just get a bit of your own action if possible0
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OP here
I think this thread has run its course. I've seen and taken into consideration all the other views.
I think it ultimately still wasn't right, but the mistake started at both our naivety before she left. I've let her know that, laid off a bit, and we'll discuss it when we're back.
I won't be posting in here to answer points again.
Cheers!0
This discussion has been closed.
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