Quebec childcare model

pwurple

Has anyone heard of the Quebec subsidised childcare model? It's a system based on family income, where if you earn less than 50,000, childcare you pay 7.50 per day, up on a sliding scale to a maximum of 20 per day, and the govt pays the provider the rest.

http://www.budget.finances.gouv.qc.ca/Budget/outils/garde_en.asp

Here's the thing, it makes the state a net profit. The tax gains from people who take up employment while their children are being looked after, outweighs the subsidies involved.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Faffaires.lapresse.ca%2F201204%2F13%2F01-4514921-les-garderies-a-7-sont-rentables-pour-le-quebec.php&edit-text=

What do people think? A potential model to suggest to our representatives for Ireland when they come knocking on our doors?

Spread the love

I'll have a proper look at it later but I honestly think the government need to do more for working parents. I have to keep my days flexible and last week I worked 4 days and I had to hand over €140 to the crèche. It completely negated me working a day and a half! Why is primary school education 'free' beginning at 4 but basically ridiculously expensive prior to this. A few years ago, There was a tax credit for working parents who had their children in paid childcare, they need to bring this back at least. Anything to ease the cost of childcare!

Millem

When looking at a dublin crèche's website I saw that in northern Ireland employees can opt for "childcare vouchers" as part payment for their wages. From what I gather, the vouchers are deducted from gross income. It seems like a win win situation. Employee pays less for childcare as they are paying it from their gross income, creches/registered childminders get the full amount, the government will get more in tax as I am guessing it would cut out a lot of black market childminding and creche's will hire more staff and also maybe some more parents will go back into the workforce and the employer plays less in prsi as the voucher amount is exempt from employers prsi!

LegacyUser

To be honest, as far as I can see, there are a hundred different ways that the childcare situation could be improved. I think, yes pwurple, if there are concrete examples we can point to when our representatives come a-knocking (I never see them because I'm out working all day...) then that definitely helps.

But I honestly believe that nothing will happen until there are more women - especially more women of a certain age - in Government. Or at the very least, a very vocal and insistent lobby group of women or parents that are constantly at them, in the media, banging on the door of Leinster House annoying them about it.

Unfortunately those of us with small kids are too busy out trying to make ends meet or look after the kids to get very heavily involved in that stuff. And like most things then, once it stops being an issue for people, they lose interest in trying to fix the problem.

I'm not trying to wash my hands of the issue here because really it fills me with a burning rage. But how many times now have they been told - in detail - what's going on and how it could be improved.....and still their main focus is on giving subsidies to builders and getting the property market to boom again. It makes me want to throw my hands in the air and walk away - and also want to hit them really hard, both in equal measure

I'm sorry, I'm very cynical about the governance of this country. However I will certainly look closer at the Quebec model and will say it loud and clear to anybody who knocks on my door.

pwurple

I think the difference with the Quebec model, is that the unemployed can also take it up.. it opens up the ability to look for a job. I know people can get stuck where they don't have childcare, so they can't even go to an interview, or even the stage before that, look for roles, or arrange an interview.

Also even with tax credits, they don't kick in straight away at entry level. Take the example of being a single unemployed mother, say you managed to get over the interview and training hurdle and land a job.
-You can get caught with emergency tax
-You either lose some of your benefits, or you perceive that you will
-You have to pay for your childcare up front, and possibly even weeks in advance to settle the child in, while you get paid in arrears or do some unpaid training or internship period. It's a huge monetary roadblock.

Tax credits work really well for people who are already employed and earning above a certain level. If your income is low enough that you don't pay tax anyway, it's no good to you.

I think that's how this scheme ended up bringing in more than it cost, it removed a lot of those barriers.

BeardySi

Millem wrote: »

When looking at a dublin crèche's website I saw that in northern Ireland employees can opt for "childcare vouchers" as part payment for their wages. From what I gather, the vouchers are deducted from gross income. It seems like a win win situation. Employee pays less for childcare as they are paying it from their gross income, creches/registered childminders get the full amount, the government will get more in tax as I am guessing it would cut out a lot of black market childminding and creche's will hire more staff and also maybe some more parents will go back into the workforce and the employer plays less in prsi as the voucher amount is exempt from employers prsi!

Yup, this is what we do. Each parent can claim up to a maximum of £243 in vouchers/month. The vouchers get paid to the nursery directly from the employer or voucher scheme and we pay off the balance directly to the nursery. The cost of the vouchers is deducted before tax and national insurance. With the drop in tax and ni paid, I'm only £160 down on my pay prior to the credits being taken out...

Oddly enough it's not a widely publicised scheme. I was the first one to get on it in here (there's 6 others with small kids) and now everyone's on it!

Millem

Treadhead wrote: »

Yup, this is what we do. Each parent can claim up to a maximum of £243 in vouchers/month. The vouchers get paid to the nursery directly from the employer or voucher scheme and we pay off the balance directly to the nursery. The cost of the vouchers is deducted before tax and national insurance. With the drop in tax and ni paid, I'm only £160 down on my pay prior to the credits being taken out...

Oddly enough it's not a widely publicised scheme. I was the first one to get on it in here (there's 6 others with small kids) and now everyone's on it!

It sounds great! So you could claim £486 between two parents?

Xdancer

Here in Spain there is a similar system (if you decide to send your child to a public creche) the amount you pay depends on the parents' annual tax declaration.
It also works for extra curricular activities at school, lunches etc. It's a good system and means a lot of people can afford to work without it costing a whole wage. Of course crèches here are a lot cheaper than back home.

IvyTheTerrible

Xdancer wrote: »

Here in Spain there is a similar system (if you decide to send your child to a public creche) the amount you pay depends on the parents' annual tax declaration.
It also works for extra curricular activities at school, lunches etc. It's a good system and means a lot of people can afford to work without it costing a whole wage. Of course crèches here are a lot cheaper than back home.

Very similar system here in France. Public creche fees, school meals etc are linked to income so you pay less if you earn less. It makes life a lot easier.

lazygal

Spread the love wrote: »

I'll have a proper look at it later but I honestly think the government need to do more for working parents. I have to keep my days flexible and last week I worked 4 days and I had to hand over €140 to the crèche. It completely negated me working a day and a half! Why is primary school education 'free' beginning at 4 but basically ridiculously expensive prior to this. A few years ago, There was a tax credit for working parents who had their children in paid childcare, they need to bring this back at least. Anything to ease the cost of childcare!

Was there? I don't remember that.

Childcare is our single biggest expense, even more than our mortgage at the moment. I'm working to pay childcare and for a bit extra for the nicer things at the moment and I can't see much changing any time soon. I don't think the budget will do much more than tinker with the ECCE scheme and maybe whack a fiver onto child benefit. I also don't think there is any thought process for long term planning in Ireland when it comes to children. You see it over and over how things are run in the best interests of everyone but the children, like the school system, the lack of a children's hospital, the fragmented and ad hoc approach to childcare and the lack of any strategic plans for dealing with a growing population.
We use a child minder so any of the proposed models of creche-type based care wouldn't benefit us anyway. I want my children to attend a stand alone Montessori so linking in with a larger service wouldn't appeal at all. I would like the primary schools to have some sort of system of afterschool care in place, but I cannot see that happening when the vast majority of schools are in private ownership.

BeardySi

Millem wrote: »

It sounds great! So you could claim £486 between two parents?

Yup, that's what we're doing.