Poland V Ireland 19:45 [RTE2] 11/10/2015

sky88

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Wilson can play there, and Ward did well there against Germany. I don't understand why some want to put a right-back in there.

Well i said it cause i thought wilson and ward were injured but i would rather one of them playing there in the play off games

Ace2007

Alex Meier wrote: »

Some very tough teams in the play offs.

I wouldn't be confident of beating any of them over two legs.

tonight was the game to treat as all or nothing imo.

We should have beaten Poland in Dublin, and we should have done better tonight.

Walters and O'shea were brainless at the end, both missing the first play off game, and then there is the wes issue, apparently he can't play 2 games in 3 days - so that means he'll be missing for one game (or most of it).

mikeym

So close to the Automatic Spot

And now we wait for the Play-Offs and I presume we wont be a seeded team.

dreamers75

mikeym wrote: »

So close to the Automatic Spot

And now we wait for the Play-Offs and I presume we wont be a seeded team.

possible but dependant on things going our way.

i reckon we getting Sweden or Denmark.

Ace2007

sky88 wrote: »

Well i said it cause i thought wilson and ward were injured but i would rather one of them playing there in the play off games

Ward lacks match fitness, and chances are won't be playing for Burnley between now and then.

Alex Meier

mikeym wrote: »

So close to the Automatic Spot

And now we wait for the Play-Offs and I presume we wont be a seeded team.

We don't know the final 8 but there's a chance of us being seeded as UEFA have their own separate rankings.

monkey9

dreamers75 wrote: »

possible but dependant on things going our way.

i reckon we getting Sweden or Denmark.

Either of those two teams are doable.

Very Bored

Bosnia, Israel, Cyprus, Slovenia or Hungary and we have a chance. Anything else and its bon nuit.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Rikand wrote: »

Cretaceous rather than Jurassic though tbf

How about Planck epoch football?

The earliest period of time in the history of the universe.

keeponhurling

edgecutter wrote: »

Too many long balls at the end which didn't work.

True enough, the same v Scotland at home.

Lots of crosses are grand and all, but we don't have a Niall Quinn or Tony Cas whose strengths we are playing to.

Keane, Long or Walters aren't poor in the air, per Se, but it's not really their game.
You'd better off with John O'Shea up front in that case.
Even at least Keogh won a header from a cross , even if the finish was lacking

AllGunsBlazing

Very Bored wrote: »

Bosnia, Israel, Cyprus, Slovenia or Hungary and we have a chance. Anything else and its bon nuit.

Wouldn't be too sure about Bosnia or Slovenia. Technically superior footballers at the very least.

mikeym

I would love to avoid Turkey/Holland and Sweden/Russia.

Nib

Tim Krul out for the season for Newcastle.

Rob Elliot will now be their number 1, if he looks up to it he should be called up for the play-off games, Randolph doesn't fill me with confidence at all.

briany

Hard to see Ireland winning any playoff tie, really, and that's not pessimism. But, look, I would have taken this position on Wednesday, so I'm not really going to be too upset about what happened tonight, even though it was Ireland's best chance to qualify, realistically. If they play like that in the playoffs, they'd be almost as well forfeiting. Okay, a bit OTT there...

Panthro

Whohoo!.....


Playoffs....



Yay...?

MisterAnarchy

Almost certain now that Ireland wont be seeded in the playoffs thanks to Bosnia overtaking Israel and Albania overtaking Denmark

There are 5 current third placed teams ranked ahead of us according to the Uefa National Rankings
http://www.footballseeding.com/national-ranking-uefa/ranking-2015/#Sort
They are Ukraine,Croatia,Bosnia,Sweden and Denmark

2 of those teams are confirmed as their groups are finished ,Ukraine and Denmark
Sweden could overtake Russia but as Russia are ranked above Sweden thats of no relevance.
So thats 3 teams with a higher seeding than Ireland.

Its down to two groups then .
Croatia or Norway ,with Croatia favourites to finish second.
and Bosnia ,Cyprus or Israel,with Bosnia favourites to finish second.
We need both Norway and Israel or Cyprus to finish second in their groups to get the last seeded spot and that is highly unlikely .

So a play off it will most likely be and our chances of progressing will be slim.

briany

Bosnia beat Wales, who are 9th in the world, last night. Pushovers they are surely not. Really, you'd be hoping the Cypriots can sneak into third, but they'd have beat the aforementioned victors in order to do that, and that's a tall order. Just let Ireland be the seeded team as I think it would be of benefit to have the second leg in Dublin.

titan18

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Wilson can play there, and Ward did well there against Germany. I don't understand why some want to put a right-back in there.

Does Brady not play Left Back for Norwich now. Sue, he's converted but still a PL LB

Ace2007

titan18 wrote: »

Does Brady not play Left Back for Norwich now. Sue, he's converted but still a PL LB

How many Clean sheets have Norwich kept this season?

MisterAnarchy

briany wrote: »

Bosnia beat Wales, who are 9th in the world, last night. Pushovers they are surely not. Really, you'd be hoping the Cypriots can sneak into third, but they'd have beat the aforementioned victors in order to do that, and that's a tall order. Just let Ireland be the seeded team as I think it would be of benefit to have the second leg in Dublin.

Its looking like Cyprus will have to beat Bosnia allright as Israel are away to Belgium and unlikely to get anything there.
The Netherlands could also come into the fray if Turkey lose at home to Iceland .

Kermit.de.frog

Brought down to earth with a bang. Think we might struggle in the playoffs no matter who we get with this style of play.

dreamers75

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Brought down to earth with a bang. Think we might struggle in the playoffs no matter who we get with this style of play.

its the same style of play we had on Tuesday, beating Germany hasnt made us gods of football.

We are still ****e, would rather lose trying to play football than this ****e we have to endure.

AllGunsBlazing

dreamers75 wrote: »

its the same style of play we had on Tuesday

Not exactly true. There were moments of respite vs Germany where Hoolahan held onto the ball and brought others into play. Nothing that really hurt the Germans but at least gave our defence a chance to gather itself. Tonight was utterly brainless by comparison.

dreamers75

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

Not exactly true. There were moments of respite vs Germany where Hoolahan held onto the ball and brought others into play. Nothing that really hurt the Germans but at least gave our defence a chance to gather itself. Tonight was utterly brainless by comparison.

I said Tuesday for a reason, Germany was a one off and was on Thursday.

AllGunsBlazing

dreamers75 wrote: »

I said Tuesday for a reason, Germany was a one off and was on Thursday.

Uh, yeah. Fair enough then.

yohan the great

Nib wrote: »

Tim Krul out for the season for Newcastle.

Rob Elliot will now be their number 1, if he looks up to it he should be called up for the play-off games, Randolph doesn't fill me with confidence at all.

Elliot is a poor keeper and will only be in goal for Newcastle until 2nd choice Darlow who is also injured is back

The_Kew_Tour

2 points from Poland and Scotland tell it's own story

I'm not disappointed we lost as after Thursday it was hard to back it up, but it was the manner which was disappointing.

sonic85

I found myself agreeing with john giles earlier when he said if we can play like the way we did against Germany once we should be capable of doing it regularly. I think this team is more than capable of playing decent football and we seen glimpses the other night. we should've had enough to get by Poland tonight.

what way will we approach the play offs now? missing some key players for the first leg will it be a case of shut up shop and wait to get them back and open up a bit for the second leg or what?

AllGunsBlazing

sonic85 wrote: »

what way will we approach the play offs now?

Hoof ball aimlessly from the back, panic if found in possession of the ball in midfield - repeat as necessary.

Sand

sonic85 wrote: »

what way will we approach the play offs now? missing some key players for the first leg will it be a case of shut up shop and wait to get them back and open up a bit for the second leg or what?

I think its fairly clear the philosophy is to shut up shop under most circumstances and hope something happens out of a long ball into the box or a setpiece.

Corholio

I think it's a case of trying to keep it tight and not lose seems to be the mentality and to be honest before tonight that's the way I would have been thinking as well, but maybe it's a case of watching Ireland over the past few years that you get into that mentality yourself. I never, ever thought Ireland would go out and take on Poland from the off tonight and I still don't think completely doing so was the right tactics, however I think it's finding somewhere in the middle. I think when we have the ball we have to look to keep possession it and great chances with it, sometimes it looks like we hold onto to it just for the sake of holding onto it. With the wingers I notice that we don't really have a tactic for them, they are just kind of......there. I don't think we play to any of the forward players strengths maybe except Walters, which mostly doesn't lead to much.

briany

The thing that baffles me is that there were (fleeting) spells where the team looked relatively confident in possession v. Germany, but they just couldn't keep the ball at feet tonight, or were tripping over themselves. Long ball partly to blame there, but the skill level of individual players felt like it dropped. It feels like my suspicion that the players played above themselves v. Germany was right somewhat, and I'm sure fatigue was a factor as well.

Laois_Man

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Almost certain now that Ireland wont be seeded in the playoffs thanks to Bosnia overtaking Israel and Albania overtaking Denmark

There are 5 current third placed teams ranked ahead of us according to the Uefa National Rankings
http://www.footballseeding.com/national-ranking-uefa/ranking-2015/#Sort
They are Ukraine,Croatia,Bosnia,Sweden and Denmark

2 of those teams are confirmed as their groups are finished ,Ukraine and Denmark
Sweden could overtake Russia but as Russia are ranked above Sweden thats of no relevance.
So thats 3 teams with a higher seeding than Ireland.

Its down to two groups then .
Croatia or Norway ,with Croatia favourites to finish second.
and Bosnia ,Cyprus or Israel,with Bosnia favourites to finish second.
We need both Norway and Israel or Cyprus to finish second in their groups to get the last seeded spot and that is highly unlikely .

So a play off it will most likely be and our chances of progressing will be slim.

But the rankings will change before the draw won't they?
Bosnia have already lost their home game against Cyprus and their last game is away to them - and as you said, Croatia are favorites to finish second - putting Norway third. So it's not that highly unlikely really

sonic85

Corholio wrote: »

I never, ever thought Ireland would go out and take on Poland from the off tonight and I still don't think completely doing so was the right tactics

Why not though? We really had nothing to lose tonight the playoffs were in the bag so why not try play a bit of football and take it to them. We didn't seem that interested tonight which is criminal really with an automatic spot at stake.

It needn't have been balls to the wall stuff but in all honesty there was scope there to be a little bit adventurous and I think thats when we seem to put in good performances.

Ferris_Bueller

Disappointing result in the end but Poland away was always going to be a difficult fixture, I think most of us would have taken a play off at the start of the group and certainly during the summer when it looked like we were going to finish 4th. It's frustrating how we resort to playing that type of football against teams who we should be looking to play decent football against, but that has been a long term problem for Ireland now.

Brady was very poor tonight but he is not a natural left back and the guy is still fairly inexperienced, a good player who hopefully will play further up the pitch for us from now on. Agree that McClean and McGeady were both very disappointing, McClean should definitely be used as an impact sub from now on as pretty much all of his decent performances have come from the bench and I always feel as if he is a liability to get sent off as well if he's on the pitch for 90 mins.

I admittedly had given up on the O'Neill/Keane partnership after the second match with Scotland (thought that was a must win at the time), but they have gotten us into a play off and we were only one goal away from automatic qualification in the end. I'm reckoning that the play offs will look something like this;

Seeded: Ukraine, Sweden, Bosnia, Denmark
Unseeded: Ireland, Turkey, Norway, Slovenia

I wouldn't fear any of those teams in particular, but we really need to have a different game plan to tonight. The long ball tactics work to an extent with Walters and Long up there but it's not a one size fits all approach, against the bigger nations it might be an okay option at best but in a play off match where we will presumably need to win at least one match, we need something better. Agree that Wes isn't exactly a footballing god but the difference between how the team sets up when he is there and when he isn't is shocking, if he isn't capable of playing 180 minutes in the space of 4 days is there anyone else who could do a similar enough job in one of the matches?

Bowlardo

we are going to france....something in me bone tells me

i remember when gerard hit that goal against olympicous that we were going to do something special
and i got the same feeling the night we drew against germany away from home....i know it would tell

we are going to france...there is just too much spirit in that team and there is too much belief from the fans not too happen. it was cemented with the germany result
we have got one more game in the aviva lads
lets give it the unmericdul big one for it

briany

Bowlardo wrote: »

we are going to france....something in me bone tells me

i remember when gerard hit that goal against olympicous that we were going to do something special
and i got the same feeling the night we drew against germany away from home....i know it would tell

we are going to france...there is just too much spirit in that team and there is too much belief from the fans not too happen. it was cemented with the germany result
we have got one more game in the aviva lads
lets give it the unmericdul big one for it

Ti many martoonis inspiring this post, maybe.

TheCitizen

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Disappointing result in the end but Poland away was always going to be a difficult fixture, I think most of us would have taken a play off at the start of the group and certainly during the summer when it looked like we were going to finish 4th. It's frustrating how we resort to playing that type of football against teams who we should be looking to play decent football against, but that has been a long term problem for Ireland now.

Brady was very poor tonight but he is not a natural left back and the guy is still fairly inexperienced, a good player who hopefully will play further up the pitch for us from now on. Agree that McClean and McGeady were both very disappointing, McClean should definitely be used as an impact sub from now on as pretty much all of his decent performances have come from the bench and I always feel as if he is a liability to get sent off as well if he's on the pitch for 90 mins.

I admittedly had given up on the O'Neill/Keane partnership after the second match with Scotland (thought that was a must win at the time), but they have gotten us into a play off and we were only one goal away from automatic qualification in the end. I'm reckoning that the play offs will look something like this;

Seeded: Ukraine, Sweden, Bosnia, Denmark
Unseeded: Ireland, Turkey, Norway, Slovenia

I wouldn't fear any of those teams in particular, but we really need to have a different game plan to tonight. The long ball tactics work to an extent with Walters and Long up there but it's not a one size fits all approach, against the bigger nations it might be an okay option at best but in a play off match where we will presumably need to win at least one match, we need something better. Agree that Wes isn't exactly a footballing god but the difference between how the team sets up when he is there and when he isn't is shocking, if he isn't capable of playing 180 minutes in the space of 4 days is there anyone else who could do a similar enough job in one of the matches?

McGeady, if he can get fully fit.

Corholio

sonic85 wrote: »

Why not though? We really had nothing to lose tonight the playoffs were in the bag so why not try play a bit of football and take it to them. We didn't seem that interested tonight which is criminal really with an automatic spot at stake.

It needn't have been balls to the wall stuff but in all honesty there was scope there to be a little bit adventurous and I think thats when we seem to put in good performances.

Now I'm not saying we should have down this or should have done that, but not going straight at them for the off the thinking could have been that it would have been a bit risky for fear of being a few behind quite early and having automatic chances gone quite early on. At 2-1 you could see Poland were a bit nervous for fear of conceding and keeping within 1 you always have a chance.

AgileMyth

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Agree that Wes isn't exactly a footballing god but the difference between how the team sets up when he is there and when he isn't is shocking, if he isn't capable of playing 180 minutes in the space of 4 days is there anyone else who could do a similar enough job in one of the matches?

Richie Towell. Won't get a look in because of who he plays for though.

pmasterson95

AgileMyth wrote: »

Richie Towell. Won't get a look in because of who he plays for though.

Wont get a look in because he is not good enough.

Omackeral

AgileMyth wrote: »

Richie Towell. Won't get a look in because of who he plays for though.

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Wont get a look in because he is not good enough.

If he catches the magic plane to Sheffield or Brighton he'll automatically be good enough though. Same happened with McClean and Fahey the minute they moved.

Mickeroo

Omackeral wrote: »

If he catches the magic plane to Sheffield or Brighton he'll automatically be good enough though. Same happened with McClean and Fahey the minute they moved.

Or maybe they were called up on merit of performing reasonably well when they made the step up to a higher level....just throwing that out there.

Laois_Man

Mickeroo wrote: »

Or maybe they were called up on merit of performing reasonably well when they made the step up to a higher level....just throwing that out there.

Or maybe the Irish international management could be more proactive in helping to get an odd LoI player a move to a higher level by helping to get them noticed by calling one into the Irish squad now and again. There could be one or two more Seamus Coleman's in it if they were given a chance. Just throwing that out there!

Not necessarily Towell tho. He had a chance in Scotland where his career there was effectively ended by Pat Fenlon of all people. If Pat Fenlon didn't rate him in a poor Scottish league, I couldn't see him make it in the English championship!

Omackeral

Mickeroo wrote: »

Or maybe they were called up on merit of performing reasonably well when they made the step up to a higher level....just throwing that out there.

They must have improved drastically in a couple of months so. They were nearly straight up to international duty after coming from the League of Ireland. The likes of Shane Long and Wes Holohan had a few seasons in England under their belt before getting a call up so wouldn't make the pointin the same vain for them. I think Towell could be worth a look to be honest, I know they had him training with the national team a year or so ago, would even like to see that again.

Pro. F

briany wrote: »

The thing that baffles me is that there were (fleeting) spells where the team looked relatively confident in possession v. Germany, but they just couldn't keep the ball at feet tonight, or were tripping over themselves. Long ball partly to blame there, but the skill level of individual players felt like it dropped. It feels like my suspicion that the players played above themselves v. Germany was right somewhat, and I'm sure fatigue was a factor as well.

Midfield vs Germany: Brady; Hendrick; McCarthy and Hoolihan.

Midfield vs Poland: McClean; Whelan; McCarthy and Hendrick.

The players' skill levels didn't drop, it was different players playing in midfield. This really isn't so hard to understand. When you play with more skilful players, especially in midfield, you keep and use the ball better.

glineli

Pro. F wrote: »

Midfield vs Germany: Brady; Hendrick; McCarthy and Hoolihan.

Midfield vs Poland: McClean; Whelan; McCarthy and Hendrick.

The players' skill levels didn't drop, it was different players playing in midfield. This really isn't so hard to understand. When you play with more skilful players, especially in midfield, you keep and use the ball better.

This is bang on the money. With Whelan playing I think you don't get to see the best of McCarthy.

With the game being scrappy and very stretched it meant we couldn't always get players to support the player with the ball, that's pretty basic.

briany

Pro. F wrote: »

Midfield vs Germany: Brady; Hendrick; McCarthy and Hoolihan.

Midfield vs Poland: McClean; Whelan; McCarthy and Hendrick.

The players' skill levels didn't drop, it was different players playing in midfield. This really isn't so hard to understand. When you play with more skilful players, especially in midfield, you keep and use the ball better.

I understand that but it seemed to be to a man last night, and players making stupid unforced errors both in midfield, and at the back (even O'Shea), along with poor discipline in making tackles at times. Just a more sluggish and nervy display overall.

TheDoc

jaykay74 wrote: »

Swedes aren't great, apart from yer man. They wouldn't be a bad draw. I go to nearly all their home games so have seen a fair bit of them.

So basically the same as Poland, who beat us, and beat us comfortably.

This is the problem with that sort of thinking. Nearly all the teams in the proposed playoffs have one standout player, but that standout player is typically always the difference in games against two teams that look somewhat similar on paper.

Last night was a nice crash back to earth. The Germany game was the exception rather than the rule. Last night we needed to actually play on the front foot and as always we are left wanting.

Wouldn't overly fancy our chances in the playoffs, but I guess you could go with the anything can happen.

Mickeroo

Omackeral wrote: »

They must have improved drastically in a couple of months so. They were nearly straight up to international duty after coming from the League of Ireland. The likes of Shane Long and Wes Holohan had a few seasons in England under their belt before getting a call up so wouldn't make the pointin the same vain for them. I think Towell could be worth a look to be honest, I know they had him training with the national team a year or so ago, would even like to see that again.

Fahey made his debut for Birmingham 17 months before his first senior cap. McLean was a good bit quicker but didn't get called up until he became a starter for Sunderland and was on a good run of form in the PL.

I'm not saying Towell doesn't deserve a chance, it would be great to see more LOI players getting in to the national team as it would be a sure sign the league is on the up but I just think there's more logical reasons for players being called up once they move to stronger leagues than a conspiracy against clubs in the LOI.