Homeless man perishes on Dublin street

JustTheOne

Menas wrote: »

Many actually dont stay in hostels because of people injecting in there and they feel safer on the streets.

Any links to back this claim up?

Cause there is plenty to back up the claim they refuse cause of their addiction issues.

There was a woman from the Simon community on tv last week saying a homeless fella handed back Keys to a brand new flat he got from the council.

He just couldn't handle it.

It's not as simple as giving someone a place to stay. We spend a 100 million on homelessness each year.

Dallas has the same population as Dublin
And has 3500 sleeping rough.

It's always been a problem in Dublin but suddenly we have people using it as a stick to beat enda with pretending they actually care and riding that high horse with pure hypocrisy.

Menas

JustTheOne wrote: »

Any links to back this claim up?

Cause there is plenty to back up the claim they refuse cause of their addiction issues.

An example from last saturday's irish times where people sleeping on grafton st mention it.

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/exiles-on-main-street-the-homeless-of-grafton-street-1.2385825

JustTheOne

Menas wrote: »

An example from last saturday's irish times where people sleeping on grafton st mention it.

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/exiles-on-main-street-the-homeless-of-grafton-street-1.2385825

With the 100 million funding a shelter should be set up for people who do not take drink or drugs. It wouldn't be hard to differentiate.

What are they spending the money on one wonders?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I was walking up Clare street yesterday and there was a man passed out, late morning, slumped on the footpath, head thrown back, out cold. I actually thought he was dead too.
But is this a homeless problem? I don't think so. I think it's a drug problem. The last two talked about deaths, both have died from drugs. Has drugs played a part in this death too? More than likely.

If you walk through the city centre, take the luas, etc the place is awash with people begging, people off their faces, people injecting themselves. THAT should not be tolerated. Addicts are clearly unwell, and addiction will come before looking after themselves, food, hostels or whatever else they tell you the money is for. I will never give cash, will usually offer to buy food or tea or coffee if I have the money, and most of the time, it's just money they want.

If the government are going to do anything, they need to tackle the drug problem first and foremost. Heroin kills. That's no surprise. Because if you put a heroin user into a house, yeah they're off the streets but chances of them ending up dead anyway is still pretty high

corner of hells

JustTheOne wrote: »

With the 100 million funding a shelter should be set up for people who do not take drink or drugs. It wouldn't be hard to differentiate.

What are they spending the money on one wonders?

There is accommodation for individuals who don't have an alcohol issue or drug use , it varies temporary emergency accommodation right up to different types of supported housing and onto to housing association eventually.

There are a few hostels allowing alcohol use and the remainder are dry as in no drinking inside .Hard to enforce though.

JustTheOne

corner of hells wrote: »

There is accommodation for individuals who don't have an alcohol issue or drug use , it varies temporary emergency accommodation right up to different types of supported housing and onto to housing association eventually.

There are a few hostels allowing alcohol use and the remainder are dry as in no drinking inside .Hard to enforce though.

Oh right.

So why are people accusing the government of doing nothing?

The Corinthian

LexieOnRale wrote: »

But is this a homeless problem? I don't think so. I think it's a drug problem. The last two talked about deaths, both have died from drugs. Has drugs played a part in this death too? More than likely.

Indeed. What I've read of this case is that it was most likely a drug overdose.

Ultimately it's a drugs problem. It's drugs that makes (or at least contributes) such people homeless to begin with and drugs that ultimately kills them.

This is not to suggest that homelessness is not a problem, but a drug overdose will kill someone just as easily in their home as it does on the street - and regularly does, but dying of an overdose at home won't catch the attention of the bleeding hearts as quickly.

AudreyHepburn

Terribly sad to think of anyone ending their lives cold and alone on some dirty street.....but I do have to shake my head in exasperation at all the blustering and pontificating and high horsing going on.

The people standing up on pedestals berating the rest of us for walking by, the government for ignoring the issue, the health services for not doing more about drug and alcohol abuse etc etc are probably the exact same people who walked by this man with their noses in the air, ignoring him.

JustTheOne

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Terribly sad to think of anyone ending their lives cold and alone on some dirty street.....but I do have to shake my head in exasperation at all the blustering and pontificating and high horsing going on.

The people standing up on pedestals berating the rest of us for walking by, the government for ignoring the issue, the health services for not doing more about drug and alcohol abuse etc etc are probably the exact same people who walked by this man with their noses in the air, ignoring him.

Anything for a dig at the guberment.

corner of hells

JustTheOne wrote: »

Oh right.

So why are people accusing the government of doing nothing?

I wonder are you looking for an argument with the "oh right" comment.

Anyways we have in and around 150 rough sleepers a night either unwilling or unable to access a one night only bed for whatever reasons , be they mental health issues , chronic addiction, entrenched rough sleeping or the actual lack of beds .
A little earlier a poster made the comment along the lines "its not as simple as providing a bed " , might have been yourself.

There is no quick fit solution , with some it takes years of support moving toward independent living engaging with and resolving any number of problems.

I see it everyday at work.

seamus

JustTheOne wrote: »

So why are people accusing the government of doing nothing?

It's always been an issue, but lack of housing in general is a hot topic at present so homelessness too is a part of that.

It's worth noting that there are overnight places for these people to go. But being hostels, it means that drink & drugs are banned, as are pets. So many of these people obviously have no interest in such a place. Many also express fears for their safety. Which is pretty legit - all it takes is one guy who's out of his mind staying in the same room and you'll end up getting a beating the middle of the night.

I stayed in a budget hotel in Bordeaux once that had a modular bathroom in it. Basically a big PVC room was cast in one piece. They pop the room into the side of the hotel room, hook it up to the plumbing and bam, instant bathroom. It was actually cool.

For those sleeping rough, you could have modular overnight rooms like this rather than hostels. Whole thing is made of PVC, you add some toiletries and blankets. "Resident" goes in before midnight and the door is locked behind them, only staff or the person themselves can open the door*. Door is opened again at 10am, everyone is chucked out, bedding stripped and sent off to be washed, cleaning guys go in with a powerhose and spray the whole room down top to bottom, bam, clean room for the next night.

*With the priviso that you can bring in whatever you want with you, but if you leave, you're gone and can't come back in that night.

JustTheOne

corner of hells wrote: »

I wonder are you looking for an argument with the "oh right" comment.

Anyways we have in and around 150 rough sleepers a night either unwilling or unable to access a one night only bed for whatever reasons , be they mental health issues , chronic addiction, entrenched rough sleeping or the actual lack of beds .
A little earlier a poster made the comment along the lines "its not as simple as providing a bed " , might have been yourself.

There is no quick fit solution , with some it takes years of support moving toward independent living engaging with and resolving any number of problems.

I see it everyday at work.

The oh right comment was that I hadn't known there was such a shelter available.

corner of hells

JustTheOne wrote: »

The oh right comment was that I hadn't known there was such a shelter available.

My apologies

suicide_circus

The Corinthian wrote: »

Indeed. What I've read of this case is that it was most likely a drug overdose.

Ultimately it's a drugs problem. It's drugs that makes (or at least contributes) such people homeless to begin with and drugs that ultimately kills them.

This is not to suggest that homelessness is not a problem, but a drug overdose will kill someone just as easily in their home as it does on the street - and regularly does, but dying of an overdose at home won't catch the attention of the bleeding hearts as quickly.

I've a friend who works with the homeless. She will tell you that anyone you see who is actually sleeping rough is there because they are unable or unwilling to sleep in shelters or hostels which all operate no drink/drugs policies. The reason you don't see a mother and her kids sleeping in the street is that they are not strug out.
It may be harsh to say but if you are shooting up and die on the street, it may not be anyone else's "fault".

The Corinthian

suicide_circus wrote: »

The reason you don't see a mother and her kids sleeping in the street is that they are not strug out.

Well, that women, especially mothers, will be prioritized for emergency housing and men are excluded from getting emergency housing, is probably a more pertinent reason.

CruelCoin

Kluster wrote: »

As the nights are getting colder I am sure we could expect a few more homeless to die on the streets...we need more sheltered housing soon

No, no we do not.

I'm not going to dig it up, but wasn't there a lot of recentish news controversy over the costs of providing homeless housing? More than the average industrial wage per person i thought it was.

Throwing more band-aids at the problem isn't going to solve anything other than move the problem out of sight.

If you're homeless, odds are you're not working and are therefore mobile. If you're not working then the dole is plenty sufficient for you to rent a home/room outside the city (think leitrim, laois, etc). So, i don't think not having a roof over your head is justifiable.

"But joe, what about the drugs and dem drinks?" Ah give up.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Do they get dole without an address?

CruelCoin

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Do they get dole without an address?

No idea.

"quick google"

Dil ireann - Volume 632 - 01 March, 2007 - Written Answers. - Social Welfare Benefits.

Mr. Callely asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs if a homeless person is entitled to a social welfare payment; the procedure to obtain such a payment; and if he will make a statement on the matter

To which the response was:
Homeless people have the same entitlements as any other Irish citizen under the social welfare system. If they are unemployed but capable of and genuinely seeking work, then they can apply for job seekers allowance. A person makes a claim to job seekers allowance by completing a claim form at the Department’s local office. Homeless people can be paid basic allowance under the supplementary welfare allowance scheme if they do not fulfil the conditions for any other primary weekly payment from my Department.




Turns out yes, yes they can

lawlolawl

The only way the government can fix the "homeless problem" is to cure addiction.

Now, no one has ever managed to do this in the history of mankind but I think Enda and the lads are well up to it.

FelineOverLord

Penny Tration wrote: »

Oh Jesus would you give over. It's got nothing to do with bloody Syria ffs

Yes it is. We're taking in thousands of refugees and that is going to cost us a fortune. We have no legal obligation to take them and the money would be far better spent taking care of our own homeless before we start importing people we're going to have to house, clothe, feed, educate and provide medical and dental care for. But that isn't what this thread is about.

FelineOverLord

CruelCoin wrote: »

No, no we do not.

I'm not going to dig it up, but wasn't there a lot of recentish news controversy over the costs of providing homeless housing? More than the average industrial wage per person i thought it was.

Throwing more band-aids at the problem isn't going to solve anything other than move the problem out of sight.

If you're homeless, odds are you're not working and are therefore mobile. If you're not working then the dole is plenty sufficient for you to rent a home/room outside the city (think leitrim, laois, etc). So, i don't think not having a roof over your head is justifiable.

"But joe, what about the drugs and dem drinks?" Ah give up.

I doubt there are many landlords willing to let to the unemployed, especially the homeless, regardless of what part of the country they live in. I'm guessing a single homeless person is going to be much further down the housing/RAS list than someone with kids.

asherbassad

CruelCoin wrote: »

No, no we do not.

I'm not going to dig it up, but wasn't there a lot of recentish news controversy over the costs of providing homeless housing? More than the average industrial wage per person i thought it was.

Throwing more band-aids at the problem isn't going to solve anything other than move the problem out of sight.

If you're homeless, odds are you're not working and are therefore mobile. If you're not working then the dole is plenty sufficient for you to rent a home/room outside the city (think leitrim, laois, etc). So, i don't think not having a roof over your head is justifiable.

"But joe, what about the drugs and dem drinks?" Ah give up.

So what you're saying is that not a single one of the homeless people has the cop on to figure out that they are entitled to all these things you mention.

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

Saipanne

CruelCoin wrote: »

No idea.

"quick google"

Dil ireann - Volume 632 - 01 March, 2007 - Written Answers. - Social Welfare Benefits.

Mr. Callely asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs if a homeless person is entitled to a social welfare payment; the procedure to obtain such a payment; and if he will make a statement on the matter

To which the response was:
Homeless people have the same entitlements as any other Irish citizen under the social welfare system. If they are unemployed but capable of and genuinely seeking work, then they can apply for job seekers allowance. A person makes a claim to job seekers allowance by completing a claim form at the Department’s local office. Homeless people can be paid basic allowance under the supplementary welfare allowance scheme if they do not fulfil the conditions for any other primary weekly payment from my Department.




Turns out yes, yes they can

Unfortunately many of them would probably be incapable of jumping through the bureaucratic hoops, due to their addictions.

Paramite Pie

JustTheOne wrote: »

There was a woman from the Simon community on tv last week saying a homeless fella handed back Keys to a brand new flat he got from the council.

He just couldn't handle it.

It's not as simple as giving someone a place to stay.

For those who are mentally conditioned (for lack of a better term) towards sleeping rough, could a courtyard or patio area be constructed where tents and/or sleeping bags are provided along with electric heaters -- a bit like a pub smoking area with some shelter from rain -- this could provide a warm, safe area to sleep in.

For those in the flats but who are having trouble adjusting, a low lying bed (like those in Japan/Korea) as well as one of those sound-effect machines playing street sounds could be helpful.

And lastly, there should be another shelter where drugs are permitted -- preferably ones inside the methadone clinics. Let them get a controlled fix.

Lods1969

Homelessness is a industry that employees 100's . Dublin City Council fund 28 of the 30 odd homeless charities in Dublin. Does that make any sense ? 28 Charities with 28 CEO's , 28 Offices etc etc, . Most people that are homeless have other issues, addictions etc. which has seen them ending up on the streets, its not as simple as providing a roof. Who actually wants to really solve the problem??

the evasion_kid

sashafierce wrote: »

RIP to the poor man its awful.

However I have lived in Canada for a while where homeless people are on the streets in -30 winters. Having moved back to Ireland since its nice to see they get more recognised here and are actually treated better though it might not seem that way.

Frightening the amount of them over there,sleeping over the subway grills just to get a bit of heat into them.

suicide_circus

Most people who are homeless do not sleep rough while most people who sleep rough have addiction problems. That said I'd agree that there are an awful lot of people drawing a salary from the homeless industry and the charity sector in general.

Asmooh

Paramite Pie wrote: »

I was in a 24hr internet cafe a few months back in Dublin -- a lot of homeless people who couldn't get a room were spending their night there.

One of them was only 14. A charity group came around with sandwiches & coffee at around 3/4am.

When I move back to Dublin I plan to volunteer with them, I don't have money to give but I do have some time. It was hard to witness, it's one thing to pass someone on the street and forget about it 2mins later, it's harder to forget when you see it up close.

wait 14 and homeless? in Europe? if he/she was irish I don't think this is even true.

CruelCoin

asherbassad wrote: »

So what you're saying is that not a single one of the homeless people has the cop on to figure out that they are entitled to all these things you mention.

What i'mplying (badly it seems) is that they should know this, but it likely goes up their veins or down their gullet, as opposed to homing themselves.