Should Peyton Manning Retire?

AMGer

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Worst game of all time at QB?

5 of 20; 35 yards; 0 TD / 4 INT

woof!!

I've seen worse, I remember Derek Anderson for the Browns a few years back against Buffalo.......also if you want to Google it, Dan Pastorini for the Oilers against the Raiders on MNF in 1972.....but not worse with that much talent around the QB.

D9Male

I only saw it on condensed view just now, but that was really ugly. Really, really bad.

He was picked 4 times, but it should have been more

JaMarcusHustle

AMGer wrote: »

I've seen worse, I remember Derek Anderson for the Browns a few years back against Buffalo.......also if you want to Google it, Dan Pastorini for the Oilers against the Raiders on MNF in 1972.....but not worse with that much talent around the QB.

Todd Collins had a similar game a few years back for Chicago. I remember starting him in Fantasy Football as I had Cutler who Collins came in for sure to injury. First time a QB had ever got me negative points in FF.

LuckyLloyd

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Todd Collins had a similar game a few years back for Chicago. I remember starting him in Fantasy Football as I had Cutler who Collins came in for sure to injury. First time a QB had ever got me negative points in FF.

Manning was -6.60 pts for Fantasy yesterday. :P

StringerBell

I think if they can wrap him in cotton wool and get him plenty of rest between now and the post season (blame it on his rib injury) then a fresh Manning will still ultimately be a failure in the playoffs, though that defence could give him a realistic shot at another ring before he bows out, possibly. If he plays through he will be broken down completely by January though

AMGer

He has some foot condition aswell now, plantar fasiciitis or some such thing.

frostie500

Hard not to look at manning in the same way that favres career finished off

Jolly Red Giant

StringerBell wrote: »

I thought I caught the end of Kubiak talking about how Peyton had a minor injury and probably shouldn't have played, putting the blame on himself for not making the decision before game time?

Its what you expect a coach to say - Manning always seems to have an injury when he has played bad over the past year - and the severity seems to be based on who is receiving the message.

StringerBell wrote: »

Could be the last we see of him till playoffs if that is the case, perfect cover to get him out quietly and try to freshen him

You actually answered this yourself -

a fresh Manning will still ultimately be a failure in the playoffs

StringerBell wrote: »

Edit: You did say

And this is what should happen - but it won't.

I remember when Elway held his retirement presser and he was asked the reason why he was retiring - he stated - "I just can't do it physically anymore."

I was discussing this with Broncos fans on another forum and someone made an interesting comment about what might happen - Manning will sit out next week against the Bears and be given one last shot at tying the win record against Brady. If he wins the game against the Pats he will stay as a starter - if he loses he will be done and Os will take over for the rest of the season. I can see this scenario actually panning out (and I don't think the Broncos will beat the Pats because Manning hasn't the strength to expolit the weaknesses on the Pats defence).

Jolly Red Giant

eagle eye wrote: »

I think he should be left out until he is fully healthy but having looked at Osweiler I didn't see anything from him that would strike fear into his opponents. Better to go back to a healthy Manning when he is ready.

1. Manning is not physically able to play anymore - it doesn't make a blind bit of difference how healthy he is - he can't throw the ball and he is very easy to defend against.

2. You are being a bit harsh on Osweiler. The guy has played less than a half of football in the NFL. He did okay - made some good throws - made some mistakes. The difference is that Osweiler has a big and reasonably accurate arm (the main question has always been whether he can hit the short to intermediate passing routes). Defences will have to respect his arm rather than stacking the line against Manning. This will help the running game which in turn will help the passing game and the defence. Os is built to run a WCO and the OL (poor that it is) is built for the WCO and the OL and RBs are built for running stretch plays. The more time Osweiler gets the reps and to play the better he will get. Whether that means he will be good enough only time will tell - but a QB who is not making the mistakes that Manning is making will always have a shot given how good this Broncos D actually is.

SameOleJay

Found it hard not to feel for Peyton on the sideline. God knows how it happens but I hope he goes out on something resembling a high.

Osweiller was pretty underwhelming. Interested to see how he does in Chicago, assuming rumours on Manning’s foot are accurate.

Jolly Red Giant

SameOleJay wrote: »

Found it hard not to feel for Peyton on the sideline. God knows how it happens but I hope he goes out on something resembling a high.

It is sad to see such a decline - unfortunately it is not an overnight development - it has been happening since about week 10 of last season.

SameOleJay wrote: »

Osweiller was pretty underwhelming. Interested to see how he does in Chicago, assuming rumours on Manning’s foot are accurate.

Manning won't pay next week - irrespective of whether he is hurt or not. Every time Manning plays bad it is because of an injury - the reality is that he is no longer able to physically play the game.

As for Osweiler - what did you expect. The guy was playing in his first NFL game of any consequence. He has had few reps and he was playing in an offensive scheme designed to help Manning and his very limited ability. Osweiler is a polar opposite of Manning as a QB - big, strong, quick feet, with a cannon for an arm.

Despite all this look at the comparison last night

Manning 5/20 for 35 yards and 4 INTs - a fumble and an intentional grounding penalty

Osweiler 14/24 for 146 yards with 1TD and 1INT and the INT was on 4th down and 4 where he had no option but to try and throw the ball into tight coverage on a shortened field.

Nobody knows if Osweiler is any good. Only playing time will tell. What we do know is that Osweiler has all the physical skills needed for the WCO that Kubiak runs and was impressive in pre-season running the WCO. Next week we are likely to see Osweiler under centre rather than playing out of the shotgun like he did most of last night. This will improve the running game because defences will have to respect his arm and the improved running game will have a knock on of improving the passing game.

Osweiler does have issues - he has trouble reading defences (something that can only be helped with game time) etc. But at this point he has demonstrated even with less than half a game that he can play better than Manning has all season. The time has come to find out if he can be a long-term starter for the Broncos.

AMGer

so it's officially the Brock Osweiler show next week.

Son Of A Vidic

Manning has reached a point where he needs to retire with dignity. Nobody wants to see him play that way he did last night again. I hope he makes the right decision and walks away, because he'll never get a bigger wake up call than yesterday's performance.

Jolly Red Giant

AMGer wrote: »

so it's officially the Brock Osweiler show next week.

The interesting comment by Kubiak was -

"there is no timetable for Manning's return"

That could be it for Manning.

It is worth nothing that the normal recovery time to full health for a partial plantar tear is up to 12 weeks. Surgery is not recommended. The Denver Post commented "Manning's health and ability to play at this point is a huge question mark because full rest in a walking boot is the most successful prescription for this injury."

A partial tear is much more painful than a full tear and that is a major problem for a QB who stresses the plantar when setting for and throwing a pass.

Son Of A Vidic

I tore my plantar fascia back in 2004 and to this day it is still not fully healed. The plantar fascia is like a rubber band which is anchored to you heel bone (Calcaneus). It has no blood supply and that makes it particularly difficult to heal 100%. So it is one of the worst injuries to get for an athlete. The only surgical option is a Fascia Release and that has a 85% failure rate amongst the best surgeons out there. So Manning's career has to be over and even if he was 10 years younger, I would still have serious question about his future after suffering this kind of injury.

Knex*

Just realised that Eli played through the same injury in 2009, only his was a full tear.

Son Of A Vidic

Knex. wrote: »

Just realised that Eli played through the same injury in 2009, only his was a full tear.

The weird thing about it is, a full tear is much better than a partial tear. A partial tear never heals properly and tends to be prone to re-tearing a lot. 11 years later and I can still partially tear my originally injury, if I turn sharply on the foot while it's bearing all my weight. While I never knew Eli tore his, I'm not surprised because it's an injury that is really affected by genetics. I come from a very sporty family and most of us have had trouble with the plantar fascia. Now I hear Eli had it and now Peyton has it. Mad how sometimes we just can't escape our family dispositions & genetics.

Realt Dearg Sec

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Mad how sometimes we just can't escape our family dispositions & genetics.

That's how I excuse my alcoholism and laziness.

Oat23

Classy from Peyton. Anyone else except him and maybe one or two other QBs would be getting hammered for this.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000583783/article/peyton-manning-not-involved-as-broncos-prep-for-bears

padraig_f

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Worst game of all time at QB?

5 of 20; 35 yards; 0 TD / 4 INT

woof!!

Fairly pathetic to see people dancing on Manning's grave to bolster their boards ego. While it's not pleasant to watch the great players in the twilight of their career, my takeaway watching this is that even the greatest fail, and it's in confronting this struggle which made them great in the first place. So to say they should quit to preserve a reputation is to misunderstand their character. I never begrudge great players going on until they want (and while a team is willing to play them), they've earned it. To quote the famous Roosevelt bit...

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”

- Theodore Roosevelt.

StringerBell

Oat23 wrote: »

Classy from Peyton. Anyone else except him and maybe one or two other QBs would be getting hammered for this.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000583783/article/peyton-manning-not-involved-as-broncos-prep-for-bears

And they would be rightly hammered, it has been put out a few times in the past how little of a team player he actually is but has always gotten a pass.

poldebruin

padraig_f wrote: »

Fairly pathetic to see people dancing on Manning's grave to bolster their boards ego. While it's not pleasant to watch the great players in the twilight of their career, my takeaway watching this is that even the greatest fail, and it's in confronting this struggle which made them great in the first place. So to say they should quit to preserve a reputation is to misunderstand their character. I never begrudge great players going on until they want (and while a team is willing to play them), they've earned it. To quote the famous Roosevelt bit...

Agreed, it says a lot about the posters themselves, that they'd enjoy "watching Manning crumble"....one of the all time greats to play the game. Very puzzling.

I've enjoyed watching Elway, Montana, Moon, Marino, Young and Favre, these are the great, unique players that you get to see once in your lifetime. To revel in any troubles they might have had at the tail end of their careers is indeed pathetic.

StringerBell

I don't enjoy watching a great player fall off the edge of a cliff performance wise, but I have never and will never hold back on giving my opinion on any player regardless of who's sensitivities it may offend tbh.

Now the comment may not have been aimed at me, I don't think it was as I don't think I have said anything that would indicate I am reveling in Manning nosediving but he has been pretty poor for quite some time now and I can't believe he came back this season, he should have finished last year and he is finished this year and has been largely shambolic. Hey he did get that passing yards record though eh

Christy42

StringerBell wrote: »

I don't enjoy watching a great player fall off the edge of a cliff performance wise, but I have never and will never hold back on giving my opinion on any player regardless of who's sensitivities it may offend tbh.

Now the comment may not have been aimed at me, I don't think it was as I don't think I have said anything that would indicate I am reveling in Manning nosediving but he has been pretty poor for quite some time now and I can't believe he came back this season, he should have finished last year and he is finished this year and has been largely shambolic. Hey he did get that passing yards record though eh

While not the season he would have wanted that record will last longer in peoples memories than this season.

If he is happy why shouldn't he keep playing? If he enjoys turning up to training and trying to figure out an opponent then he owes it to himself to get the most out of his limited time left. I don't see the point in stopping doing what you enjoy purely for the sake of finishing on a high of some sort.

StringerBell

Its not about finishing on a high, its about knowing when to walk away before you do yourself serious damage. I have always maintained it would be very hard to walk away leaving all that money on the table but with his injury record and the form he showed toward the back end of last season the decision to retire seemed like the right one to me and tbh this season has validated it. Him being a self centred/poor teammate is a separate issue and one highlighted again by the fact he didn't come in at all to help with the game prep for the Bears etc

Where in any of that is someone taking pleasure in watching one of the all time great QB's of the game crashing and burning?

LuckyLloyd

padraig_f wrote: »

Fairly pathetic to see people dancing on Manning's grave to bolster their boards ego. While it's not pleasant to watch the great players in the twilight of their career, my takeaway watching this is that even the greatest fail, and it's in confronting this struggle which made them great in the first place. So to say they should quit to preserve a reputation is to misunderstand their character. I never begrudge great players going on until they want (and while a team is willing to play them), they've earned it. To quote the famous Roosevelt bit...

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”

- Theodore Roosevelt.

lol

Athletes often hang on that season too long. Watching the end of careers is simply great theatre and we watch sport to be entertained ultimately.

poldebruin wrote: »

Agreed, it says a lot about the posters themselves, that they'd enjoy "watching Manning crumble"....one of the all time greats to play the game. Very puzzling.

I've enjoyed watching Elway, Montana, Moon, Marino, Young and Favre, these are the great, unique players that you get to see once in your lifetime. To revel in any troubles they might have had at the tail end of their careers is indeed pathetic.

Yet you've listed six names over a dispersed time period (and omitted the current GOAT Tommy Touchdown) so maybe the truth is you get to see many players of that ilk in a lifetime?

How Manning finishes will detract nothing from who he was at his peak. This year was like Favre's 2010. The line is so fragile. And that fragility will always be incredibly compelling.

Jolly Red Giant

Last night answered the question about whether the Broncos would be better with Brock Osweiler instead of Payton Manning - Osweiler played a major role in defeating a good Bears team. Most importantly, for the first time this year the Broncos offence didn't turn the ball over. Osweiler did what Manning couldn't do which was take care of the ball and score the odd TD.

Furthermore, the Broncos were able to effectively run the football with a season high 170 yards and a average per carry of 4.9 yards. For the first time this year the Broncos won time of possession, sustained drives and scored in the red zone - helping the defence who didn't have to go onto the field repeatedly after 3 and outs. Osweiler also demonstrated the limitations of Manning's arm - last night he completed passes to 8 different receivers and for the first time Cody Latimer (who Manning has refused to throw to) was a significant factor in a game.

It is interesting to see Manning's approach this week. As has already been linked to - Manning didn't attend any team meetings, didn't attend practice and didn't talk to Osweiler about the gameplan against the Bears and that fact that he was starting as a result of Manning's injury. It raises the question about what Manning's approach is to the team, his team mates and coaches. Yesterday another story appeared that claimed that Elway was attempting to shop Osweiler last season for a 6th round pick - Elway has angrily refuted this story and there have suggestions that the source of this story is from people around Manning (I would be surprised if this were accurate but if this was remotely true it raises serious question marks about the people Manning is working with). There are ongoing question marks over what injuries Manning is actually suffering from - Kubiak said today that an MRI on his ribs were negative - and that the scale of his injuries can change depending on what is happening on the field.

Manning's camp issued a statement last night stating that Manning intends to play next season and if the Broncos don't want him he will play for someone else. This is clearly seen as an attempt to try and force his way back into the line-up before the end of the regular season. All the reports coming from the Broncos locker room are that the Broncos players don't want Manning back. They see Osweiler as a team player who will not try and do things he cannot do whereas Manning cannot dump the ego attitude that he has to be the one who wins the game. The players have responded to Osweiler and his calm approach - Osweiler apparently had a major impact when giving the motivational speech to the players before the Bears game - rather than the abrasive, blame everyone but himself that the players believe that Manning adopts.

At the end of the day Elway and Kubiak will do what they believe is best for the Broncos - and if that means benching Manning for the rest of the season then this will happen. Kubiak is supposed to be meeting Manning today to discuss the situation - there are rumours that Manning will demand to start next week against the Pats and all the indications are that Kubiak will tell him that Osweiler will be the starter. Indeed it has been suggested that there would be a locker room revolt if Osweiler was pulled next weekend. Osweiler certainly deserves to start against the Pats - the Broncos offence was much more effective last night than it has been all season.

All of this is getting very messy with rumour and counter-rumour emerging from various sources. To me it looks like a declining elite QB trying to hang on to his career and is engaged in some manipulation to try and get his way, irrespective of the impact on the team. I may be wrong about this - but the more that emerges the more it looks like this is what is happening.

JCTO

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

It is interesting to see Manning's approach this week. As has already been linked to - Manning didn't attend any team meetings, didn't attend practice and didn't talk to Osweiler about the gameplan against the Bears and that fact that he was starting as a result of Manning's injury. It raises the question about what Manning's approach is to the team, his team mates and coaches.

All of this is nonsense from the Broncos camp and the media. Plenty of QBs have come and gone without ever helping their backup or when injured not attending practice which by the way by CBA rules they dont have to. Also gameplan and all of that the injured QB or player for that matter is under no obligation to do so as he is injured.

Brett Favre never did any of that for Aaron Rodgers and there is plenty of examples going back of QBs who did nothing for their backups. It is not their job after all to do so and why should they groom their eventual replacement.

Whatever people think about Manning at this point all the speculation Broncos fans are getting pulled into is nonsense. Anything to completely throw Manning under the bus and make him look like a complete and utter c*nt.

Jolly Red Giant

JCTO wrote: »

Brett Favre never did any of that for Aaron Rodgers and there is plenty of examples going back of QBs who did nothing for their backups. It is not their job after all to do so and why should they groom their eventual replacement.

If you are injured and you expect to return as a starting QB on a team with an elite defence and pretty much odds on for the play-offs - why wouldn't you do everything in your power to help the team win? After all if the team wins the SB you get a ring and you might actually play a pivotal role in that happening.

JCTO wrote: »

Whatever people think about Manning at this point all the speculation Broncos fans are getting pulled into is nonsense. Anything to completely throw Manning under the bus and make him look like a complete and utter c*nt.

I have huge respect for Manning as a football player and an elite QB - but first and foremost I am a Broncos fan and I am most concerned with what affects the prospect of my team. I want Manning to win a SB but only because he is a Bronco and I would applaud him for doing so - he deserves it given his play over his career.

There has been serious question marks about Manning's approach since the middle of last season (and in particular the seriousness of the quad injury). And these question marks continue today given the stuff that has emanated from Manning's camp. It should be noted that Kubiak has announced that Osweiler will start against the Pats.

But most importantly - it appears that the players want Osweiler, not Manning, to be the starting QB. Sanders had a huge row with Manning after the Colts game and it started the ball rolling - since then it looks like the entire squad is coming down supporting Osweiler over Manning.

I have no idea how this will all pan out. Osweiler has only started one NFL game. He is lacking in pocket presence - he was sacked 5 times by the Bears but could have thrown the ball away for 3 of them and he takes too long to go through progressions. However, he can make any throw he is asked in the WCO, he is calm in the pocket, he is mobile and Kubiak clearly has developed a confidence in him. If he plays well against the Pats then it will be very hard to replace him at QB and if he continues to get some wins and lead the Broncos to the play-offs he deserves to get the opportunity to see how far he can go with the team.

Paully D

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

It is interesting to see Manning's approach this week. As has already been linked to - Manning didn't attend any team meetings, didn't attend practice and didn't talk to Osweiler about the gameplan against the Bears and that fact that he was starting as a result of Manning's injury. It raises the question about what Manning's approach is to the team, his team mates and coaches. Yesterday another story appeared that claimed that Elway was attempting to shop Osweiler last season for a 6th round pick - Elway has angrily refuted this story and there have suggestions that the source of this story is from people around Manning (I would be surprised if this were accurate but if this was remotely true it raises serious question marks about the people Manning is working with). T.

Per that video was linked, Manning was away from the facility to focus on getting healthy as per Kubiak's instruction.

JCTO

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

If you are injured and you expect to return as a starting QB on a team with an elite defence and pretty much odds on for the play-offs - why wouldn't you do everything in your power to help the team win? After all if the team wins the SB you get a ring and you might actually play a pivotal role in that happening.

I am not Peyton Manning so I can't answer on his behalf. We got no official reasons from either the Broncos or the Manning camp as to why he didn't turn up or "help" so anything more than that would be mere speculation.

There has been serious Speculation about Manning's approach since the middle of last season (and in particular the seriousness of the quad injury). And this speculation continue today given the stuff that has emanated from Manning's camp. It should be noted that Kubiak has announced that Osweiler will start against the Pats.

All speculation of course.

But most importantly - it appears that the players want Osweiler, not Manning, to be the starting QB. Sanders had a huge row with Manning after the Colts game and it started the ball rolling - since then it looks like the entire squad is coming down supporting Osweiler over Manning.

So would you if your QB was banged up and playing like sh1t as would any player.

I have no idea how this will all pan out. Osweiler has only started one NFL game. He is lacking in pocket presence - he was sacked 5 times by the Bears but could have thrown the ball away for 3 of them and he takes too long to go through progressions. However, he can make any throw he is asked in the WCO, he is calm in the pocket, he is mobile and Kubiak clearly has developed a confidence in him. If he plays well against the Pats then it will be very hard to replace him at QB and if he continues to get some wins and lead the Broncos to the play-offs he deserves to get the opportunity to see how far he can go with the team.

It is safe to say Manning wont be back. I can't see the Broncos going back to him at this point. As soon as you make that move you have to stick with it especially if momentum starts to happen take Bledsoe/Brady Bill made the decision and stuck with it.

Paully D

Manning has told teammates he wants to play in 2016:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/11/23/peyton-manning-has-told-teammates-he-wants-to-play-in-2016/

As major question remain regarding whether Peyton Manning will play again in 2015, a separate question has emerged regarding whether he will play in 2016.

As reported on Sunday night’s edition of NBC’s Football Night in America, Peyton currently intends to play next season, even if he’s not playing for the Broncos. And as a separate source told PFT on Monday, Manning has told teammates that he wants to play next year.

It’s not known whether Peyton has said to current Denver teammates that he’d play for another team in 2016. And it’s hardly a definite that he will play. The Broncos presumably won’t want to pay Manning the $19 million he’s due to make in the final season of his five-year deal.

Would they offer to pay less? Would someone else pay more than what the Broncos would offer?

How little would Manning be willing to take to play another year? Ten million? Eight? Six?

Then comes the question of whether another team would be willing to let him run whatever offense he wants to run; indeed, the new offense installed by Gary Kubiak seems to be one of the reasons for Manning’s struggles in 2015.

Much will need to be resolved after the current season ends. Regardless, the current plan is to play next year.

On Monday, Kubiak threw water on the report regarding Manning’s intentions for 2016.

“I can just tell you for there to be any rumors or anything he said that his mindset is anywhere other than getting healthy and helping this football team, I can tell you is totally false,” Kubiak said. “I visit with this guy on a regular basis and we talk all the time. I can tell you his mindset is a day at a time trying to get healthy and all those things and help his football [team]. That’s all he talks to me about. That’s all that’s important to him right now. That’s disappointing. There are going to be things out there and things said, but I know what’s going on. I know how hard he is working to get back and help his football team.”

Why would it be disappointing that a guy who is obsessed (and he is) with getting healthy enough to play in 2015 would be intent on playing in 2016? The normal human brain is capable of maintaining both desires simultaneously. Peyton’s advanced brain (not sarcasm) easily can handle those tasks.

Kubiak, for example, presumably is focused completely and entirely on coaching the team in 2015. He also presumably intends to coach in 2016, and that plan presumably doesn’t dilute his ability to focus on 2015.

$19m baby!

Jolly Red Giant

Paully D wrote: »

$19m baby!

For the final year of the contract to kick in Manning is required to pass a team medical before the beginning of March - Manning will not pass the medical - so he will have to find someone else to pay him $19million.

JCTO

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

For the final year of the contract to kick in Manning is required to pass a team medical before the beginning of March - Manning will not pass the medical - so he will have to find someone else to pay him $19million.

Someone probably will which is the mad thing.

Jolly Red Giant

Paully D wrote: »

Per that video was linked, Manning was away from the facility to focus on getting healthy as per Kubiak's instruction.

It is possible there are some face-saving comments in all of this.

The injury that Manning is supposed to have suffered is a minimum 6 weeks rest in a boot with at least 2 other weeks of rehab and given his age this would be an optimistic timeframe. Furthermore, he is likely to suffer a re-injury, particularly given his age and the fact that he plays QB. Apparently he suffered this injury after the Colts game - so it is not an excuse for his terrible play this season.

Since last season the injury reports coming from Manning's camp have changed sometimes daily from serious to minor and back to serious. A 39 year old QB will get banged up - but it is the declining physical ability that have been the primary reason for his poor play this season.

Jolly Red Giant

JCTO wrote: »

Someone probably will which is the mad thing.

Along with everything else the Broncos have to negotiate a new contract with Von Miller.

Hazys

Honestly its a bit of a shame to see Manning go through this. As much as its none of my business to tell Manning when to hang up his cleats but there is a certain indignity to going through what he is going through this season and what seems like at this point the indignity will continue into 2016. There is something to be said for what Michel Jordan did, retiring on top.

What interests me is his motivation to keep playing. Why isn't he content to just hang them up?

Is it because he loves playing the game too much?

Does he think he's just unlucky with injuries at the moment and with a clean bit of health, he'll be back to his old self?

Is Manning chasing another Super Bowl ring to validate his career? Or another passing record?

Has he not prepared himself for life after football?


I hope Brady is watching because I feel Brady will go through the same thing as Manning. For Brady, i think he loves the game too much and he has not prepared himself for life after football. He was asked recently does he have any plans for after football and he's response was "What else am I going to do?" and he has always said that he'll keep playing till BB replaces him, which is what's happening to Manning right now. Honestly i'd prefer to lose Brady a little early when he's still got something to give rather than lose him after it's well clear he's past it. Unfortunately most likely in a couple of years, we will have a "Should Tom Brady retire?" thread

poldebruin

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

lol

Yet you've listed six names over a dispersed time period (and omitted the current GOAT Tommy Touchdown) so maybe the truth is you get to see many players of that ilk in a lifetime?

Apologies for the late reply clarifying this - I was trying to point out that the players I listed were unique, you only get to see one John Elway, one Steve Young, one Brett Favre - they are not interchangeable, and when they hang it up, that's it.

Yes, you will always get to see another HOF or pro bowl calibre QB, but it won't actually be Dan Marino or Joe Montana. Another great QB will come along for sure, (personally I think the NFL is QB-poor at the moment) but the thing you loved about those QB's; their playing style, their mechanics, their attitude or whatever combination of talents that make each QB the way they were is gone.

That's why I think it was strange for the hate/ridicule on Manning this year. Of course he didn't play well for whatever reason, and you didn't need to be an expert to see the struggle, but he feels that he can contribute and if another team feels that way next year, he will get paid (although I think there will be few interested in taking PM next year)

Regarding the speculation out of Denver, yes, it does seem to be a bit of a mess. It's hard to predict what's next, but I definitely have a sense that the Broncos feel they gave him a fair shot, and that they are now giving him a way to bow out (semi) graciously.

LuckyLloyd

JCTO wrote: »

All of this is nonsense from the Broncos camp and the media. Plenty of QBs have come and gone without ever helping their backup or when injured not attending practice which by the way by CBA rules they dont have to. Also gameplan and all of that the injured QB or player for that matter is under no obligation to do so as he is injured.

Brett Favre never did any of that for Aaron Rodgers and there is plenty of examples going back of QBs who did nothing for their backups. It is not their job after all to do so and why should they groom their eventual replacement.

Whatever people think about Manning at this point all the speculation Broncos fans are getting pulled into is nonsense. Anything to completely throw Manning under the bus and make him look like a complete and utter c*nt.

Carson Palmer kept an intense level of involvement with the Cardinals when he went down last year in terms of practice / planning / game day sideline help and they are reaping the benefits this year.

LuckyLloyd

poldebruin wrote: »

Apologies for the late reply clarifying this - I was trying to point out that the players I listed were unique, you only get to see one John Elway, one Steve Young, one Brett Favre - they are not interchangeable, and when they hang it up, that's it.

Yes, you will always get to see another HOF or pro bowl calibre QB, but it won't actually be Dan Marino or Joe Montana. Another great QB will come along for sure, (personally I think the NFL is QB-poor at the moment) but the thing you loved about those QB's; their playing style, their mechanics, their attitude or whatever combination of talents that make each QB the way they were is gone.

That's why I think it was strange for the hate/ridicule on Manning this year. Of course he didn't play well for whatever reason, and you didn't need to be an expert to see the struggle, but he feels that he can contribute and if another team feels that way next year, he will get paid (although I think there will be few interested in taking PM next year)

Regarding the speculation out of Denver, yes, it does seem to be a bit of a mess. It's hard to predict what's next, but I definitely have a sense that the Broncos feel they gave him a fair shot, and that they are now giving him a way to bow out (semi) graciously.

In Manning's case a lot of that is already gone, which is the point. He's tossing around wobbly ducks and consigned to the shotgun the whole time. This is no longer specifically about Manning's career / demise but a more general story about how time catches up with all great men and how the cliff comes very quick for athletes in particular.

Christy42

StringerBell wrote: »

Its not about finishing on a high, its about knowing when to walk away before you do yourself serious damage. I have always maintained it would be very hard to walk away leaving all that money on the table but with his injury record and the form he showed toward the back end of last season the decision to retire seemed like the right one to me and tbh this season has validated it. Him being a self centred/poor teammate is a separate issue and one highlighted again by the fact he didn't come in at all to help with the game prep for the Bears etc

Where in any of that is someone taking pleasure in watching one of the all time great QB's of the game crashing and burning?

Injury is the only thing I would worry about.

I take no pleasure in watching him play badly but it isn't my call. It is Manning's call. It isn't even about how well he is playing it is purely about whether or not Manning is happy with his lot in life right now. If he is happy going into training and playing then why (aside from the potential injury reason) should he stop?

If you enjoy doing something and someone is willing to pay you to do it then there shouldn't be a question about it. The only reason this is coming up is because the games are televised world wide and because he was such a great player. As long as he is happy and someone is willing to pay him Manning should stay, once either of those things changes or he gets very worried about an injury messing up his retirement he should stop. End of.

The same will go for Brady, anyone who retires while they still want to be out on that pitch and have the opportunity is an idiot. You get one life so make the most out of it and do what you love for as long as you can. Forget the fans, these players have given enough that the fans can endure a final bad year. Brady will stop when he gets benched and I agree completely with that, even if it means we have to watch be a shadow of his former self for a season in a few years time.

JCTO

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Carson Palmer kept an intense level of involvement with the Cardinals when he went down last year in terms of practice / planning / game day sideline help and they are reaping the benefits this year.

As you pointed out they reaped the benefits the following year. Maybe Manning at this point knows he is done with the Broncos so what is the point. I can't see them going back to him anyways at this point Osweiller will most likely finish out the season unless Manning miraculously gets 100% healthy back into his prime. My main point is many QBs don't help out and many do and we never get the full story either way just speculation.

sportstar583

I think he should but he wants to most won games record I think so he will probably start at least one more game this year.

eagle eye

So what do people think now after his triumphant return last night?

Here's looking at you Jolly Red Giant, what do you have to say now after saying he should retire?

Mysterypunter

Not, before the playoffs anyway. But seriously he will probably due to accumulated injuries, wear and tear and age. Happens to everyone.

Realt Dearg Sec

eagle eye wrote: »

So what do people think now after his triumphant return last night?

Here's looking at you Jolly Red Giant, what do you have to say now after saying he should retire?

Does one (not complete) game against dire opposition change the reality of what we watched all year? I'm not sure where I stand on this but his benching after four ints surely could as easily vindicate those of that view by your logic? He has good games earlier in the year but he had, undeniably, regressed in general as the year went on. I don't see why yesterday changes that.

adrian522

Yeah, I'd like to see him up against a team that is not picking in the top 5 of the draft.

D9Male

I was impressed with him, but he had what, nine throws?

Jolly Red Giant

eagle eye wrote: »

So what do people think now after his triumphant return last night?

The primary reason why the Broncos won the game was because they pulled Schofield from RT, put in Polumbus and ran the ball. Manning made 9 passing attempts in 1 1/2 quarters of play (completing 5 for 869 yards) - the Broncos ran the ball 19 times.

The Broncos handed the Chargers five turnovers - only one of which could be remotely regarded as Osweiler's fault. Osweiler was probably having his best game at QB in terms of how he has progressed as a starter. He was receiving zero protection from the OL. While Os was on the field the Broncos passed 22 times and ran the ball 11 times - that is 'Manning ball', not Kubiak's offence. When Manning came onto the field the Broncos reverted to pounding the ball.

Kubiak was absolutely right to make changes - the Broncos were handing the game to the Chargers on a plate. I would have preferred to have seen the change at RT and the switch to running the ball with Os at QB but there was one big advantage with bringing Manning into the game. The Chargers defence was set-up to defend Manning's short passing game - what Manning did very effectively was to read the defence and check down into the best running play. Nobody is better than Manning at reading the defence (something Osweiler still has a long way to go with). So Manning's contribution to the win was to read the defence and not throw any interceptions. the key play of the game was the interception of Rivers with 6 mins left that allowed the Broncos to run for the go-ahead score.

eagle eye wrote: »

Here's looking at you Jolly Red Giant, what do you have to say now after saying he should retire?

Manning is done. He can do what he did last night - play a quarter or two using his brain and game manage. He did it after several weeks of rest. He did the same thing after the bye-week when he came out and played well against GB. But he cannot do it week-in week-out. He will not put together twelve quarters of play to win the Broncos three games.

The decision of who will start at QB for the Broncos in two weeks has yet to be made. I suspect it will probably be Manning. I think Elway would like to see him get the wins record in a Broncos jersey. I think Manning could put together a decent game, particularly if he doesn't throw too much (he actually commented after Sunday's game about 'not moving a ton' and running the ball 'a decent amount' and when he did throw 'getting the timing right'). But I do believe that all of Elway, Kubiak and Manning are aware that he cannot sustain things for three games as a starter. It could not be ruled out that the Broncos could start with Osweiler and if needed could sub Manning in during the third or fourth quarter as a 'change of pace' QB, using Manning's ability to read defences to assist the Broncos. I could not see a situation happening again where Kubiak would let Manning throw four INTs and run up a 20+ point deficit before yanking him out of the game.

This seasons SB is wide open - every single team has issues (including Carolina) - a lot of teams have struggling OLs - there are a lot of injuries floating around etc.

The Broncos will have a better defence - Marshall will be back, hopefully Stewart (who has been a revelation at safety) will be fit and as long as the Broncos can run the ball they have a chance of beating anyone who they come up against.

I would be nice if the Broncos could win Manning a ring - but the team will focus on winning for the Broncos, not for Manning. I would be absolutely shocked if Manning plays next year (despite some rumours that the Texans are willing to consider talking to him).

Jolly Red Giant

By the way - seeing as I have been threatened again by the mods for pointing out the whining of 'some' Pats fans on the Pats thread - I will make a comment here.

Pats fans claim Goodell and the NFL have it in for them - well - the antics of the Pats over the years might have something to do with that.

However, every NFL team could claim they were unfairly treated. A few weeks ago Talib was (rightly) suspended for a game for poking Dwayne Allen in the eye - a suspension that cost the Broncos their best CB and cost Talib $350,000. Two weeks ago Cody Wallace - a 350lb centre - on purpose speared David Bruton helmet-on-helmet, nearly taking Bruton's head clean off. Wallace should have been booted out of the game and suspended by the NFL for deliberate dangerous play. Wallace was fined $23,000.

Fair - like hell was it fair.