Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

jm08

Neil3030 wrote: »

You're right, I'd forgotten that in 2014 the home games to Wales, Scotland and in particular Italy were pretty high scoring. 2015 was the year our D won us the gong.

And lack of an attack lost the GS (both years). The Welsh game was embarrassing that Ireland couldn't score a try.

Quint2010

jm08 wrote: »

And lack of an attack lost the GS (both years). The Welsh game was embarrassing that Ireland couldn't score a try.

We did score a penalty try against Wales no?

irishbucsfan

Quint2010 wrote: »

We did score a penalty try against Wales no?

I think it's more in reference to the long possession we had in their 22 but left scoreless. It was the best defensive series by any team in the 6 Nations last year imo.

The Rape of Lucretia

jm08 wrote: »

And lack of an attack lost the GS (both years). The Welsh game was embarrassing that Ireland couldn't score a try.

Nonsense. It is widely accepted in rugby, that in order to win a 6N championship you must have an attack. To win two in a row indicates that you have a very good attack.
Not an attack as those with a narrower view of what it takes to win a rugby game might recognise. But an attack nonetheless that is part of modern sophisticated rugby as played by the world's best coaches.

wp_rathead

Yeah_Right wrote: »

A lot of people calling for Payne to move to fullback or be dropped from the 23 completely. Can I ask these posters, has Payne ever had a bad game for Ireland at 13? Has the Payne/Henshaw midfield ever been destroyed, embarrassed, shown up?

Neil3030 wrote: »

Ah but you see he is hopeless at 13 because a beloved former pundit on our dear national broadcaster once saliently referred to him as a journeyman mercenary foreigner (or some other such term of informed endearment) with no attacking threat.

Can't speak for other posters but personally I don't want to move Payne from 13 because he is a "journeyman mercenary foreigner with no attacking threat."..
The reason I want to see a shuffle in the backline is quite simple: Stuart McCloskey
The lad deserves to play. Everytime I see him (which is a decent bit thanks to BBC NI) he just seems better and better..
Him playing means Henshaw moves out to 13, his more natural position anyway..
Then we left with a toss up between Payne and Rob Kearney for fullback..
For me, Rob Kearney hasn't done enough this season to warrant holding onto the 15 jersey.. I'd be shocked if he wasn't 15 mind, but would love to see Payne given a go..

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think it's more in reference to the long possession we had in their 22 but left scoreless. It was the best defensive series by any team in the 6 Nations last year imo.

Yes. Wales made over 200+ tackles in that game and we couldn't breach defense. The Payne & Henshaw centre partnership was getting a bit of stick for being too defensively minded with no attack.

molloyjh

shootermacg wrote: »

I'm not saying those guys don't try and Dave is definitely the better defender. They just seem to get caught in 2 minds and then the Kearney gene kicks in.

The Kearney gene!? Seriously!? Is this really the level we are at?

penybont exile

former total wrote: »

Yes. The undisputed first choice full back for club and country for the last 7 years with three Six Nations, three Heineken Cups and two Lions tours, cannot defend.

This thread is absolutely f**ked when the team is actually announced because Rob is going to be in it and I'd say 80% likely Dave will be too.

Let's hope so .... rate those Kearney boys ..... especially Dave.

Pick Ruddock in the second row too.

Maybe Earls in midfield .... might be hoping for too much with that one.

That Saffer from Munster ..... not overly convinced about him either.

jm08

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Nonsense. It is widely accepted in rugby, that in order to win a 6N championship you must have an attack. To win two in a row indicates that you have a very good attack.
Not an attack as those with a narrower view of what it takes to win a rugby game might recognise. But an attack nonetheless that is part of modern sophisticated rugby as played by the world's best coaches.

We don't have the players to be able to bash our way over the gainline like other 6Ns teams, so I would like to see Schmidt taking a leaf out of Eddie Jones's book with how he coached Japan and select players in that mould.

penybont exile

former total wrote: »

Yes. The undisputed first choice full back for club and country for the last 7 years with three Six Nations, three Heineken Cups and two Lions tours, cannot defend.

This thread is absolutely f**ked when the team is actually announced because Rob is going to be in it and I'd say 80% likely Dave will be too.

Let's hope so .... rate those Kearney boys ..... especially Dave.

Pick Ruddock in the second row too.

Maybe Earls in midfield .... might be hoping for too much with that one.

That Saffer from Munster ..... not overly convinced about him either.

The Rape of Lucretia

jm08 wrote: »

Yes. Wales made over 200+ tackles in that game and we couldn't breach defense. The Payne & Henshaw centre partnership was getting a bit of stick for being too defensively minded with no attack.

We learnt our lesson from that game. We got too close to their line and didnt kick enough. White line fever and poor execution cost us. Not the strategy. Improved version of the same would take the Welsh comfortably in a fortnight.

molloyjh

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Nonsense. It is widely accepted in rugby, that in order to win a 6N championship you must have an attack. To win two in a row indicates that you have a very good attack.
Not an attack as those with a narrower view of what it takes to win a rugby game might recognise. But an attack nonetheless that is part of modern sophisticated rugby as played by the world's best coaches.

Of course it's nonsense. We scored more points than any other team in 2014. Jm08 and facts simply don't go together. We should all know that at this stage.

The Rape of Lucretia

jm08 wrote: »

We don't have the players to be able to bash our way over the gainline like other 6Ns teams, so I would like to see Schmidt taking a leaf out of Eddie Jones's book with how he coached Japan and select players in that mould.

What does any of that mean ?

molloyjh

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

We learnt our lesson from that game. We got too close to their line and didnt kick enough. White line fever and poor execution cost us. Not the strategy. Improved version of the same would take the Welsh comfortably in a fortnight.

It's actually ok to give credit to the opposition as well. The Welsh defensive effort that day was phenomenal. Like England in 2014 we were beaten by a team who defended really well. Englands system and accuracy in defence was superb in 2014 while the Welsh just made a freakish number of tackles and out in a huge physical effort in 2015. Fair play to both sides, they deserved those wins. That some feel the only reason we lose games is purely because of ourselves is a but self involved. The opposition have every bit as much of a say as we do and have the same power to impact the result.

molloyjh

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

What does any of that mean ?

I think it means we need to start getting our project players from Japan. And pronto!

The Rape of Lucretia

molloyjh wrote: »

It's actually ok to give credit to the opposition as well. The Welsh defensive effort that day was phenomenal. Like England in 2014 we were beaten by a team who defended really well. Englands system and accuracy in defence was superb in 2014 while the Welsh just made a freakish number of tackles and out in a huge physical effort in 2015. Fair play to both sides, they deserved those wins. That some feel the only reason we lose games is purely because of ourselves is a but self involved. The opposition have every bit as much of a say as we do and have the same power to impact the result.

True indeed. If all teams took the approach that they themselves are responsible for any games that they lose, it would mean teams would only be happy in a world where all teams win all games. Which is a rather unlikely one.

jm08

molloyjh wrote: »

It's actually ok to give credit to the opposition as well. The Welsh defensive effort that day was phenomenal. Like England in 2014 we were beaten by a team who defended really well. Englands system and accuracy in defence was superb in 2014 while the Welsh just made a freakish number of tackles and out in a huge physical effort in 2015. Fair play to both sides, they deserved those wins. That some feel the only reason we lose games is purely because of ourselves is a but self involved. The opposition have every bit as much of a say as we do and have the same power to impact the result.

Much of the chat around then was that Schmidt was keeping his moves under wraps for the world cup.:rolleyes:

jm08

molloyjh wrote: »

Of course it's nonsense. We scored more points than any other team in 2014. Jm08 and facts simply don't go together. We should all know that at this stage.

And in the most recent 6Ns, we scored the same number of tries as Italy - 8. England scored 18. 4 of the 8 tries were against Scotland, 2 SOB, 1 POC & 1 Payne.

jm08

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

What does any of that mean ?

Did you watch how Japan played against South Africa?

Stop this bish bosh phase play/choke tackle style. Have a few backs that have the pace and step to beat a man and a pacy full back who can tackle.

.ak

Yeah_Right wrote: »

A lot of people calling for Payne to move to fullback or be dropped from the 23 completely. Can I ask these posters, has Payne ever had a bad game for Ireland at 13? Has the Payne/Henshaw midfield ever been destroyed, embarrassed, shown up?

He's actually been brilliant for us at 13. I was one of his critics when he first came into the team, but when Schmidt kept with him I started to watch him more closely. When Darcy said he's probably the most important player in the back line he wasn't lying.

The reason he's right is because Payne is one of those players that just always takes the right option. The execution might not be 100% right every time, and he may not have that flair to pull off the off the cuff moments, but his carrying, passing, offload, rucking, kicking, defending is all 100% and clearly done with the thought process of what's going to happen two phases down the line. He's vastly experienced and he's translated that into international level without hesitation. Schmidt is very keen in him henshaw but it's pretty clear that he looks at Payne's cool head and experience as vastly important to offer him a foil.

Tbh I felt once Payne was ruled out of the rest of the Rwc we really missed him. Because he plays as rugby player, rather than a specialist position, when you have someone like that on your team you vastly miss them. He's the glue that holds the backline together. It's no surprise he usually in the top 5 tackle, carry and ruck counts, and that's in the outside channel...

If mccloskey comes into the side it'll be at the expense of henshaw, not Payne.

.ak

penybont exile wrote: »

Let's hope so .... rate those Kearney boys ..... especially Dave.

Pick Ruddock in the second row too.

Maybe Earls in midfield .... might be hoping for too much with that one.

That Saffer from Munster ..... not overly convinced about him either.

Hopefully Philips worms his way back into the starting 15, and surely cuthbert deserves another bone? :pac:

.ak

jm08 wrote: »

Much of the chat around then was that Schmidt was keeping his moves under wraps for the world cup.:rolleyes:

jm08 wrote: »

And in the most recent 6Ns, we scored the same number of tries as Italy - 8. England scored 18. 4 of the 8 tries were against Scotland, 2 SOB, 1 POC & 1 Payne.

jm08 wrote: »

Did you watch how Japan played against South Africa?

Stop this bish bosh phase play/choke tackle style. Have a few backs that have the pace and step to beat a man and a pacy full back who can tackle.

If you can't see how varied our attack has been well then I pity you if you've been so blinded by whatever hatred spurs the above sort of opinion.

wp_rathead

.ak wrote: »

If mccloskey comes into the side it'll be at the expense of henshaw, not Payne.

So what you're saying is we won't be seeing McCloskey
Because Henshaw will play

jm08

.ak wrote: »

If you can't see how varied our attack has been well then I pity you if you've been so blinded by whatever hatred spurs the above sort of opinion.

Do you not admit that a lot of the commentary after the 6Ns last year was that Schmidt was keeping his attack under wraps.

And for a mod, that is very offensive personal comment to resort to. Is that the best defense you can put up?

swiwi_

*Comes back 12 hours later to find RK has replaced SZ as the source of the latest forum fracas*

As a generic comment, I suggested on a NZ rugby forum that I was happy Israel Dagg was sticking around a bit longer in NZ, he might still have something to offer at international level. A number of posters replied nah not really, he's approaching 30 (he's only 27....) which is usually the age when NZ will no longer pick you in the back three (especially on the wing).

RK is 29 and JP is 30 - maybe the debate shouldn't be RK vs JP at 15...

I don't think RK is anywhere near the outstanding form of the Lions 2009 tour, I don't think currently he would make a Lions tour. I think the jury has to be completely out on Payne, unless I'm mistaken he's never started a match for Ireland at 15 - provincial form doesn't always translate upwards.

Podge_irl

We should play more like international rugby powerhouse Japan?

sydthebeat

Podge_irl wrote: »

We should play more like international rugby powerhouse Japan?

And we should also stop "phased play"

Fair dues jm08, when you're big in Japan, be tight.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

rob kearney has been good for ireland but himself and heaslip have never reached their full potential.
shame that the fear of winning always trumps the fear of losing.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

rob kearney has been good for ireland but himself and heaslip have never reached their full potential.
shame that the fear of winning always trumps the fear of losing.

aimee1

jm08 wrote: »

And in the most recent 6Ns, we scored the same number of tries as Italy - 8. England scored 18. 4 of the 8 tries were against Scotland, 2 SOB, 1 POC & 1 Payne.

Those 18 tries by england really was the difference between winning and losing the title .......:rolleyes:

former total

Leandro Round Billboard wrote: »

rob kearney has been good for ireland but himself and heaslip have never reached their full potential.
shame that the fear of winning always trumps the fear of losing.

Way too deep for this hour of the morning. Let me grab a coffee so I can achieve that level of zen.

aimee1

Leandro Round Billboard wrote: »

rob kearney has been good for ireland but himself and heaslip have never reached their full potential.
shame that the fear of winning always trumps the fear of losing.

Three 6n titles each

Three HEC each [I know RK missed finals but he was part of the squads in europe those seasons]

Three Pro12s each

Two Lions tours each as first choice picks

There is many rugby players playing professionally for 12-15 years who win nothing. There is very few in European rugby who have won/achieved more.

molloyjh

aimee1 wrote: »

Three 6n titles each

Three HEC each [I know RK missed finals but he was part of the squads in europe those seasons]

Three Pro12s each

Two Lions tours each as first choice picks

There is many rugby players playing professionally for 12-15 years who win nothing. There is very few in European rugby who have won/achieved more.

Yeah but they were afraid to win those titles, which makes all the difference.

aimee1

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah but they were afraid to win those titles, which makes all the difference.

Whereas others who are so afraid to win that they win nothing. Ah now I get it

awec

Yeah_Right wrote: »

A lot of people calling for Payne to move to fullback or be dropped from the 23 completely. Can I ask these posters, has Payne ever had a bad game for Ireland at 13? Has the Payne/Henshaw midfield ever been destroyed, embarrassed, shown up?

Of course it hasn't, but it's a very boring partnership that plays like two blokes being played in positions other than their best.

But just because it hasn't been a disaster doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking at other options. We have other options available to us that have the potential to be so much better.

If we play McCloskey and Henshaw and it turns out decent then everyone will be too afraid to ever play anyone else in the centre again which is equally wrong.

I personally think McCloskey and Henshaw is the best realistic combination we have right now and should be given a proper chance (i.e. not just given a token run out against Italy). Certainly Henshaw and Payne have not shown anything to suggest that partnership is untouchable. If that means Payne out of the 23 then so be it.

Nobody can argue with Schmidt's record. My argument is we have the potential to do even better if we are brave enough with our selections. The payoff may not be immediate but we need to get out of our habit of always focusing on the very short term.

aimee1

awec wrote: »

Of course it hasn't, but it's a very boring partnership that plays like two blokes being played in positions other than their best.

But just because it hasn't been a disaster doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking at other options. We have other options available to us that have the potential to be so much better.

If we play McCloskey and Henshaw and it turns out decent then everyone will be too afraid to ever play anyone else in the centre again which is equally wrong.

I personally think McCloskey and Henshaw is the best realistic combination we have right now and should be given a proper chance (i.e. not just given a token run out against Italy). Certainly Henshaw and Payne have not shown anything to suggest that partnership is untouchable. If that means Payne out of the 23 then so be it.

Nobody can argue with Schmidt's record. My argument is we have the potential to do even better if we are brave enough with our selections. The payoff may not be immediate but we need to get out of our habit of always focusing on the very short term.

with no irish participation in the ERCC quarters the financial needs in this 6n might be even greater.

imacman

Much as I hate to say it I agree with George Hook in his column today. Jonny Sexton needs to retire for his own health, he's not the same player he was and i think this is purely down to concussion.
I read an interview with Kevin McLaughlin recently and he had a very similar experience and took the decision to retire. I will be a big blow for Lenister and Ireland but i think for his own health and future he should stand down .

flangemeistro

I haven't been on here in awhile because basically there's a group of 8 or so "experts" who if you don't completely agree with you are attacked and patronised,

So I log in this morning and surprise surprise some things never change, just a load of "imo" "tbf" "tbh" and then the ultimate boards insult and elitist jibe of "nonsense" if you go against the grain.

It's easy for these "experts" to be so sure and confident of their opinions because they are just rehashing the last two years of Joe Schmidt selections knowing that Schmidt is a creature of habit who doesn't like change and who doesn't do shock selections.

I used to believe Schmidt at the start when he said he chose form players and didn't have time for sentiment and that if a player didn't train on Tuesday then they wouldn't make the weekend 23.

That all went down the drain when on numerous occasions he played a clearly unfit sexton and brought an injured Cian Healy to the world cup amongst other dubious decisions.

Joe has a system and no matter what the hateful 8 on here say it is not an attacking system, it is a boring, unimaginative, possession based defensive system, it's ugly rugby and I know it's a fruitful system with back to back Six nations but Joe has been found out at this stage and that is one of the reasons he's not the front runner anymore to coach the Lions next year and Gatland is, Gatland isn't afraid to cap in form youngsters in a six nations game and when they were completely ravaged with injuries before and during the RWC his selections and call ups really shone through whereas we scrope past Italy and got embarrassed by an attacking Argentina.

Joe will stick with this crash ball set piece system in the hope to win the unheard of 3 in a row but with the combination of the predictability of his system and the out of form provinces unfortunately we'll fall short.

Barring injuries most people on here can guess the starting xv against Wales and they'll all be familiar faces.
He'll probably have Stander and McCloskey on the bench as token caps but that is just to avoid any criticism that he's not blooding new players.

All the Joe enthusiasts on here can spout all they want about players being familiar with the system and needing more time in camp holding tackle bags but I doubt any of them thought that choosing Earls over Cave was the right choice, but if Schmidt was faced with the same predicament against Wales and he had to choose between Earls and McCloskey I can guarantee he would go with Earls who has never proven himself in the centre over McCloskey who I'm sure everyone will agree has had an outstanding season.

How many chances did Schmidt give Bowe while everyone else who had use of their eyes knew he was only a shadow of his former self?

The same is happening with Rob Kearney, Cian Healy, Mike Ross, Jamie Heaslip and dare I say Jonathan Sexton.

None of the above mentioned have hit their full potential in 2 or 3 years yet Schmidt is still choosing them over in form players which is stunting Irelands growth which got highlighted at the world cup.
When most fans thought we had the best strength in depth in years because we had left so much talent behind nothing could have been further from the truth.

I know it's not a popular view to have but a lot of people need to take off their Joe Tinted glasses because predicting and quantifying Schmidts choices for a few virtual pat's on the back doesn't make those choices right it just highlights that if a few boards armchair experts can see which way Schmidt is going then the other 5 nations certainly can.

former total

imacman wrote: »

Much as I hate to say it I agree with George Hook in his column today. Jonny sexton needs to retire for his own health, he's not the same player he was and i think this is purely down to concussion.
I read an interview with Kevin McLaughlin recently and he had a very similar experience and took the decision to retire. I will be a big blow for Lenister and Ireland but i think for his own health and future he should stand down .

Yeah, it's starting to look that way. Sexton is going down repeatedly for pretty innocuous looking hits that he should be well able to handle.

And these are only the head knocks that we see in matches - what about the ones that don't force him off, or happen in training?

CMOTDibbler

awec wrote: »

Of course it hasn't, but it's a very boring partnership that plays like two blokes being played in positions other than their best.

That's a matter of opinion. Are you starting with what you want and working backwards? You continuously ignore the fact that Payne has been an outside centre for every team he's ever played for.

awec wrote: »

But just because it hasn't been a disaster doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking at other options. We have other options available to us that have the potential to be so much better.

If we play McCloskey and Henshaw and it turns out decent then everyone will be too afraid to ever play anyone else in the centre again which is equally wrong.

We clearly are looking at other options in the centre. Some have been forced on us and some have been manufactured. Earls and Fitz being the obvious examples. Fitz has worked out, have you forgotten that? That McCloskey has been called up indicates that he will be looked at. As for being too afraid to try anything else... Seriously

awec wrote: »

I personally think McCloskey and Henshaw is the best realistic combination we have right now and should be given a proper chance (i.e. not just given a token run out against Italy). Certainly Henshaw and Payne have not shown anything to suggest that partnership is untouchable. If that means Payne out of the 23 then so be it.

Nobody can argue with Schmidt's record. My argument is we have the potential to do even better if we are brave enough with our selections. The payoff may not be immediate but we need to get out of our habit of always focusing on the very short term.

How are we focusing on the very short term?

swiwi_

The good news is we will all have our answers in about 2 weeks!

1) Did Schmidt go conservative or liberal with his selections?
2) Did he win or lose the match with his choice?

One side can bask in smugness, and the other can go drown their sorrows...

flangemeistro

flangemeistro wrote: »

I haven't been on here in awhile because basically there's a group of 8 or so "experts" who if you don't completely agree with you are attacked and patronised,

So I log in this morning and surprise surprise some things never change, just a load of "imo" "tbf" "tbh" and then the ultimate boards insult and elitist jibe of "nonsense" if you go against the grain.

It's easy for these "experts" to be so sure and confident of their opinions because they are just rehashing the last two years of Joe Schmidt selections knowing that Schmidt is a creature of habit who doesn't like change and who doesn't do shock selections.

I used to believe Schmidt at the start when he said he chose form players and didn't have time for sentiment and that if a player didn't train on Tuesday then they wouldn't make the weekend 23.

That all went down the drain when on numerous occasions he played a clearly unfit sexton and brought an injured Cian Healy to the world cup amongst other dubious decisions.

Joe has a system and no matter what the hateful 8 on here say it is not an attacking system, it is a boring, unimaginative, possession based defensive system, it's ugly rugby and I know it's a fruitful system with back to back Six nations but Joe has been found out at this stage and that is one of the reasons he's not the front runner anymore to coach the Lions next year and Gatland is, Gatland isn't afraid to cap in form youngsters in a six nations game and when they were completely ravaged with injuries before and during the RWC his selections and call ups really shone through whereas we scrope past Italy and got embarrassed by an attacking Argentina.

Joe will stick with this crash ball set piece system in the hope to win the unheard of 3 in a row but with the combination of the predictability of his system and the out of form provinces unfortunately we'll fall short.

Barring injuries most people on here can guess the starting xv against Wales and they'll all be familiar faces.
He'll probably have Stander and McCloskey on the bench as token caps but that is just to avoid any criticism that he's not blooding new players.

All the Joe enthusiasts on here can spout all they want about players being familiar with the system and needing more time in camp holding tackle bags but I doubt any of them thought that choosing Earls over Cave was the right choice, but if Schmidt was faced with the same predicament against Wales and he had to choose between Earls and McCloskey I can guarantee he would go with Earls who has never proven himself in the centre over McCloskey who I'm sure everyone will agree has had an outstanding season.

How many chances did Schmidt give Bowe while everyone else who had use of their eyes knew he was only a shadow of his former self?

The same is happening with Rob Kearney, Cian Healy, Mike Ross, Jamie Heaslip and dare I say Jonathan Sexton.

None of the above mentioned have hit their full potential in 2 or 3 years yet Schmidt is still choosing them over in form players which is stunting Irelands growth which got highlighted at the world cup.
When most fans thought we had the best strength in depth in years because we had left so much talent behind nothing could have been further from the truth.

I know it's not a popular view to have but a lot of people need to take off their Joe Tinted glasses because predicting and quantifying Schmidts choices for a few virtual pat's on the back doesn't make those choices right it just highlights that if a few boards armchair experts can see which way Schmidt is going then the other 5 nations certainly can.

Nonsense.

techdiver

former total wrote: »

Yeah, it's starting to look that way. Sexton is going down repeatedly for pretty innocuous looking hits that he should be well able to handle.

And these are only the head knocks that we see in matches - what about the ones that don't force him off, or happen in training?

I think this is mainly down to his terrible tackling technique. He persist with going in too high and leaving his head exposed. I can't believe this hasn't been coached out of him yet. He is a big man, as 10's go, but that doesn't mean he should rely on his bulk to stop onrushing forwards or players like Basteraud, with whom he has had a number of head collisions.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

former total wrote: »

Yeah, it's starting to look that way. Sexton is going down repeatedly for pretty innocuous looking hits that he should be well able to handle.

And these are only the head knocks that we see in matches - what about the ones that don't force him off, or happen in training?

You don't have to get a knock to the head to get a concussion either. It's the movement of the brain in the skull so there are any number of times during a match that he could be doing damage. A crunching Courtney Lawes style tackle could do it. Going up for a high ball and landing like a sack of spuds could do it.

former total

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

You don't have to get a knock to the head to get a concussion either. It's the movement of the brain in the skull so there are any number of times during a match that he could be doing damage. A crunching Courtney Lawes style tackle could do it. Going up for a high ball and landing like a sack of spuds could do it.

Absolutely. Think Kevin McLaughlin said something similar, that he got a bang on the shoulder and was completely out of it, that's when he knew he was done.

weareallmarks

re Sexton: It is getting to the stage where his standard of living and future life need to be brought into the equation. It was similar to the BO'D when he took that extra year. Luckily he came out of that fairly unscathed but he took a hammering during his career and that was before all of the advancements in concussion awareness. Sexton knows himself better than anyone, but he will also try to fight through it being the fella he is. he needs to be protected. if it means a season off then that should be the first step. then reevaluate when he has gotten through the summer. THAT is when a decision should be made. the issue is that Leinster Rugby is a business paying big money to a player, they'll only get a return if he is on the pitch. Business and sport rarely sit well together.

It also shows how knackered the Leinster decision makers are and how they made a knee jerk reaction to last year with the Sexto and Isa sigings. Both where distraction tactics. Bringing back Sexto (a massive beast of a player) undermined Madigan yet again. No wonder he wanted to leave, but before he does, he is showing exactly what we will be missing in blue. Who is the backup to Sexton?

Alot of young lions need to step up now. They did it two weeks ago, the rest of the season should be spent blooding these lads. They should still get to the rabo-magners-pro-12 final in a canter . Next season we will make money on the 'kids' (far too odd a sentence for a monday)

apologies for the long one, i only discovered this thread this mornig.

keego

weareallmarks

re Sexton: It is getting to the stage where his standard of living and future life need to be brought into the equation. It was similar to the BO'D when he took that extra year. Luckily he came out of that fairly unscathed but he took a hammering during his career and that was before all of the advancements in concussion awareness. Sexton knows himself better than anyone, but he will also try to fight through it being the fella he is. he needs to be protected. if it means a season off then that should be the first step. then reevaluate when he has gotten through the summer. THAT is when a decision should be made. the issue is that Leinster Rugby is a business paying big money to a player, they'll only get a return if he is on the pitch. Business and sport rarely sit well together.

It also shows how knackered the Leinster decision makers are and how they made a knee jerk reaction to last year with the Sexto and Isa sigings. Both where distraction tactics. Bringing back Sexto (a massive beast of a player) undermined Madigan yet again. No wonder he wanted to leave, but before he does, he is showing exactly what we will be missing in blue. Who is the backup to Sexton?

Alot of young lions need to step up now. They did it two weeks ago, the rest of the season should be spent blooding these lads. They should still get to the rabo-magners-pro-12 final in a canter . Next season we will make money on the 'kids' (far too odd a sentence for a monday)

apologies for the long one, i only discovered this thread this mornig.

keego

jm08

aimee1 wrote: »

Three 6n titles each

Three HEC each [I know RK missed finals but he was part of the squads in europe those seasons]

Three Pro12s each

Two Lions tours each as first choice picks

There is many rugby players playing professionally for 12-15 years who win nothing. There is very few in European rugby who have won/achieved more.

Wrong. Both dropped on last Lions Tour. RK didn't start a Test Match.

RK played in two of the pool games of Heineken Cup games in 10-11. He probably was dropped from HCup squad as he didn't play any rugby after October 2010.

Podge_irl

weareallmarks wrote: »

It also shows how knackered the Leinster decision makers are and how they made a knee jerk reaction to last year with the Sexto and Isa sigings. Both where distraction tactics. Bringing back Sexto (a massive beast of a player) undermined Madigan yet again. No wonder he wanted to leave, but before he does, he is showing exactly what we will be missing in blue. Who is the backup to Sexton?

An off form Sexton has still been a better fly half than Madigan and Nacewa is playing absolutely fine. I'm honestly just not that bothered about Madigan leaving - I don't think he is ever going to be a great fly half at this point. He is still available to Ireland if needs be.

But yeah, very worrying for Sexton but I see little point in prognostication. He'll sit down with the medical staff and they'll make a decision.

Podge_irl

Podge_irl wrote: »

He'll sit down with the medical staff and they'll make a decision.

I think a boards.ie diagnosis supplemented with some opinion from George Hook is actually going to be far more accurate than what some "Brain Surgeon" thinks. Pfft.