Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

irishbucsfan

Bealham has the most horrific facial hair of any player Ireland have ever had in camp. Hopefully he'll be set straight on that account at least.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Bealham has the most horrific facial hair of any player Ireland have ever had in camp. Hopefully he'll be set straight on that account at least.

.ak quite likes it!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Is Moore out just because he signed for Wasps?

swiwi_

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Is Moore out just because he signed for Wasps?

He is on the rack as we speak. The hanging drawing and quartering is tomorrow.

b.gud

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Is Moore out just because he signed for Wasps?

He suffered a grade 2 hamstring tear in the Wasps match and will be out for about 8 weeks

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

swiwi_ wrote: »

He is on the rack as we speak. The hanging drawing and quartering is tomorrow.

Rightly so.

MJohnston

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

That quote says that rest is effective.

Sorry for the delayed reply but the quote says this:

The results showed that athletes who resumed competition before they were entirely free of symptoms had lower rates of repeat concussion than those who sat out until they were symptom-free.

Maybe I'm parsing the sentence incorrectly but to me it reads like players who went back to play before being symptom free had less repeat concussion ("lower rates") compared to those who waited until they were.

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Bealham has the most horrific facial hair of any player Ireland have ever had in camp. Hopefully he'll be set straight on that account at least.

He also used to have a curly mullet. It is fair to say the guy has questionable taste.

MJohnston

awec wrote: »

He also used to have a curly mullet. It is fair to say the guy has questionable taste.

Poor guy has Aussie AND Irish genes, what do you expect?

.ak

mfceiling wrote: »

Just to touch on the point of bringing players in and some of them making the transition and some not.

Who haven't recently?

Henderson, Henshaw, McGrath, Moore have all stepped up fairly well.

I can't think off hand of anyone who has been brought in and were way off the mark.

Were any of them dumped straight into an important 6n game with no international experience (ie November tests or summer tours or wolfhounds or Italy?)

Honest question, not being smart.

My recollection is no, they all got cameos in November test series.

mfceiling

.ak wrote: »

Were any of them dumped straight into an important 6n game with no international experience (ie November tests or summer tours or wolfhounds or Italy?)

Honest question, not being smart.

My recollection is no, they all got cameos in November test series.

That's really my point!!

.ak

mfceiling wrote: »

That's really my point!!

Ah, fair enough!

I was getting lambasted earlier for suggesting mccloskey should go through a similar route to breaking into the team.

swiwi_

awec wrote: »

He also used to have a curly mullet. It is fair to say the guy has questionable taste.

And in other news Rob Kearney is really worried about his status as Irish Rugby's most eligible bachelor.

ClanofLams

errlloyd wrote: »

He started one game during the WC, it was away to Scarlets and it was (to be fair) a disaster. He was on for just over an hour, in which time we shipping four points and didn't look like scoring. He wasn't the only one out of sorts, but what concerned me was he seemed completely unable to get distance on his kicks. He just wasn't striking it well.

Marsh came on for 15 minutes and we scored 2 tries and could have had more.

Was at that game Friday before the Argentina match. Byrne wasn't great at all but Boss had an absolute howler at 9 and McGrath coming on was more significant to the improvement in the last 20 for Leinster than Marsh.

Teferi

awec wrote: »

He also used to have a curly mullet. It is fair to say the guy has questionable taste.

Sure isn't he just following the example set by Iain 'mullet and homeless beard' Henderson?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

If you shaved his head he'd look a bit like Stephen Moore?

molloyjh

bilston wrote: »

But maybe that's because Joe has a good handle on qho can and can't make the step up.

Also each one of those guys served their time. None of them went atraight into the team after getting forst called up to the squad. Whether I like it or not this just backs up why Molloy and FL etc are right. McCloskey won't be starting against Wales. Come the summer and SA things may be different.

To be honest I'm not sure we can rule out McCloskey starting either. Ultimately he needs to prove he's the best option. And it is possible he could do that. But given that he is in a new set-up with new people and doesn't fully know what is expected of him yet the chances are against him. What we can be confident of is that whenever he does start he'll be ready for it, be that in 2 weeks or 5 months.

b.gud

.ak wrote: »

Were any of them dumped straight into an important 6n game with no international experience (ie November tests or summer tours or wolfhounds or Italy?)

Honest question, not being smart.

My recollection is no, they all got cameos in November test series.

Marty Moore has only ever won Irish caps in the 6 Nations, he has 10 caps all of which came as bench appearances in the past 2 6 Nations. He was injured for last year's autumn internationals and the rwc.

He had a wolfhound cap before that so your point still stands I just think that's a quiet interesting stat

jacothelad

molloyjh wrote: »

To be honest I'm not sure we can rule out McCloskey starting either. Ultimately he needs to prove he's the best option. And it is possible he could do that. But given that he is in a new set-up with new people and doesn't fully know what is expected of him yet the chances are against him. What we can be confident of is that whenever he does start he'll be ready for it, be that in 2 weeks or 5 months.

Ireland don't need McCloskey when they have Henshaw, Fitzgerald and Reid to call on. I'd be more than happy to see him and Payne togging out for Ulster. Henshaw and Fitzgerald at 12 and 13 with Madigan as cover for 9, 10, 12 and Earls as cover for 11/13. Dave K. and Zebrite on the wings and Bob at 15. Job done. No change needed.

Yeah_Right

mfceiling wrote: »

Just to touch on the point of bringing players in and some of them making the transition and some not.

Who haven't recently?

Henderson, Henshaw, McGrath, Moore have all stepped up fairly well.

I can't think off hand of anyone who has been brought in and were way off the mark.

I have no idea if any of these guys have Wolfhounds' caps but some guys who have been in the international squads but haven't kicked on - Marmion, Tuhoy, Cave, Keatly and Ah You. Maybe they will but they haven't yet.

phog

ROC of the Indo saying there's another Irish player close to signing with an AP Club, he has since confirmed it's not an Ulster player.

Figsy32

phog wrote: »

ROC of the Indo saying there's another Irish player close to signing with an AP Club, he has since confirmed it's not an Ulster player.

Munster player according to the sports editor.

phog

Figsy32 wrote: »

Munster player according to the sports editor.

I suspected as much when he didn't say a Leinster player and then ruled out it being an Ulster player tho' I wasn't sure about Connacht contracts.

He goes so far as to say it will "stun" Munster fans.

CatFromHue

Robbie Henshaw to Saracens :eek:

:pac:

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Zebo?

Who else is due for contract renewal.

Edit : according to twitter Zebo, Earls and Murray are the ones whose contracts are up. Three other names too but none of them high.profile enough to cause a stir.

stephen_n

Out of those three it would mostly likely be Zebo. If the IRFU let Murray go, there's something seriously wrong with the negotiating process.

Civil Joe

phog wrote: »

I suspected as much when he didn't say a Leinster player and then ruled out it being an Ulster player tho' I wasn't sure about Connacht contracts.

He goes so far as to say it will "stun" Munster fans.

It's Earls.

phog

Civil Joe wrote: »

It's Earls.

Yes, Rúaidhrí O'C confirmed as much last night in his reply to a tweet that suggested it was Earls.

Huge loss to Munster and if Joe goes with the unofficial policy of not picking players playing abroad a loss to Ireland too

sydthebeat

phog wrote: »

Civil Joe wrote: »

It's Earls.

Yes, R aidhr O'C confirmed as much last night in his reply to a tweet that suggested it was Earls.

Huge loss to Munster and if Joe goes with the unofficial policy of not picking players playing abroad a loss to Ireland too

I don't think you understand the spirit behind such a policy.
IF we had such a policy, it would be much harder to convince our good young players to play in ireland for the provinces. The result of that would be provinces doing worse in leagues and cups, less bums on seats, severe loss of revenue to the irfu, less money to grass roots and a stagnation of player development leading to a major loss for the international team.

IF we had such a policy......

But we don't, we just accept that it is much more difficult for foreign based players to be selected for ireland.

OldRio

Hopefully it's just his agent using the media has a ploy in contract negotiations. Unfortunately I think a number of our high profile players may be lured away to England and France in the future. Money talks and the wages will only get better and better in those countries.

awec

Whatever the IRFU is doing, or whatever the IRFU is instructing the provinces to do isn't working.

CMOTDibbler

awec wrote: »

Whatever the IRFU is doing, or whatever the IRFU is instructing the provinces to do isn't working.

Clearly we can't compete with the money on offer in France and England. The salary cap for Premiership clubs is £5.5 million. At current rates, that's €7.2 million or approximately €180,000 a player (40 player squad).

The lost revenue from not making the knockout stages of the ECC must be in the region of a couple of million (between TV and tickets) and this money has been draining away over the last two years.

There are very few premiership clubs that find it hard to pay up to the cap (Leicester have said that they just about can) and others like Exeter, Bath and Sarries have said they want it closer to £8 million.

That's the reality. We are competing with English clubs who claim that they can pay on average up to €250,000 a year to their players and the French clubs who clearly already can.

MJohnston

How much do the IRFU do to support players beyond retirement? I can't really blame the lads who go off to rake in some cash for a few last years of their careers, because when you think about it, most of them have nothing much else they can do for a job after they're done - and they'll still have 20-30 years of normal employable life left. Must be pretty vital that they can see a path beyond their playing careers, and I reckon IRFU should be seriously looking at that if they aren't already.

irishbucsfan

The real area we fall way behind the other clubs is our domestic league. Europe has nothing to do with a gap in revenue, each one of our provinces (should) makes the same amount as any English or French club does from Europe, excluding meritocracy and Connacht-bashing, that's exactly what they wanted and is of course fair no matter what others might have convinced themselves.

The area they pull out in front is the fact that their domestic league makes them a huge amount more money than the Pro 12 makes for us. This is despite the quality of the teams involved being quite similar for years. There are various reasons for that, that have been pointed out repeatedly by various highly respected individuals in Irish rugby such as the provincials CEOs, and hopefully we may see some changes in that regard so we can try to catch up. Saying that, things are nowhere near as bad as some people will make out, we're still extremely competitive for now and are a very long way from the point of no return.

aimee1

MJohnston wrote: »

How much do the IRFU do to support players beyond retirement? I can't really blame the lads who go off to rake in some cash for a few last years of their careers, because when you think about it, most of them have nothing much else they can do for a job after they're done - and they'll still have 20-30 years of normal employable life left. Must be pretty vital that they can see a path beyond their playing careers, and I reckon IRFU should be seriously looking at that if they aren't already.

Some forge coaching careers, others go the media route. Quite a few leinster players are involved in pubs and restaurants and have other outside business interests for after rugby. They would be pretty mad to have not done some 3rd level education part time throughout their careers.



Is PoC a shareholder in pinergy?

MJohnston

aimee1 wrote: »

Some forge coaching careers, others go the media route. Quite a few leinster players are involved in pubs and restaurants and have other outside business interests for after rugby. They would be pretty mad to have not done some 3rd level education part time throughout their careers.

Is PoC a shareholder in pinergy?

Don't get me wrong, I know what some of the top-level players already do to supplement their playing careers, but I'm just curious how much support IRFU could offer themselves. Might be a better carrot to some people than earning a short burst of money in England.

CMOTDibbler

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The real area we fall way behind the other clubs is our domestic league. Europe has nothing to do with a gap in revenue, each one of our provinces (should) makes the same amount as any English or French club does from Europe, excluding meritocracy and Connacht-bashing, that's exactly what they wanted and is of course fair no matter what others might have convinced themselves.

Not making any comment about fairness, just the stark reality that there haven't been meritocracy payments to the IRFU from the knock out stages in the last two years that would be in any way compaqrable to what went before. Incidentally, it's extremely hard to find what actual payments have been made to each nation since the new regime came into power.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The area they pull out in front is the fact that their domestic league makes them a huge amount more money than the Pro 12 makes for us. This is despite the quality of the teams involved being quite similar for years. There are various reasons for that, that have been pointed out repeatedly by various highly respected individuals in Irish rugby such as the provincials CEOs, and hopefully we may see some changes in that regard so we can try to catch up. Saying that, things are nowhere near as bad as some people will make out, we're still extremely competitive for now and are a very long way from the point of no return.

Clearly as a product the Pro 12 does not attract the same level of sponsorship or TV revenue that the Premiership and Top 14 do. It probably never will. In fact I believe that we will be watching the annual commemorative fly past by the porcine squadron of the Red Arrows on Paddy's day long before this is likely to happen.

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The real area we fall way behind the other clubs is our domestic league. Europe has nothing to do with a gap in revenue, each one of our provinces (should) makes the same amount as any English or French club does from Europe, excluding meritocracy and Connacht-bashing, that's exactly what they wanted and is of course fair no matter what others might have convinced themselves.

The area they pull out in front is the fact that their domestic league makes them a huge amount more money than the Pro 12 makes for us. This is despite the quality of the teams involved being quite similar for years. There are various reasons for that, that have been pointed out repeatedly by various highly respected individuals in Irish rugby such as the provincials CEOs, and hopefully we may see some changes in that regard so we can try to catch up. Saying that, things are nowhere near as bad as some people will make out, we're still extremely competitive for now and are a very long way from the point of no return.

How do we fix our league? The Irish sides have traditionally always been the strongest in it, surely it's more a case that the SRU and the WRU need to get their house in order?

There is also the matter of the Italians, who 5 years later are still pretty crap.

irishbucsfan

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Not making any comment about fairness, just the stark reality that there haven't been meritocracy payments to the IRFU from the knock out stages in the last two years that would be in any way compaqrable to what went before. Incidentally, it's extremely hard to find what actual payments have been made to each nation since the new regime came into power.

That's nothing to do with the new organisers. Our provinces aren't as good as they were from 2006-2012. We would have had a pretty healthy chunk out of Leinster making the semi-final last year. The amount itself hasn't changed much as far as I'm aware.

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Clearly as a product the Pro 12 does not attract the same level of sponsorship or TV revenue that the Premiership and Top 14 do. It probably never will. In fact I believe that we will be watching the annual commemorative fly past by the porcine squadron of the Red Arrows on Paddy's day long before this is likely to happen.

Because the product isn't as good and it's not packaged or sold remotely as well. The people who organise the competition don't make it a priority, they're focused on the 6 Nations (a lot of them being the same people, like Feehan). The competition deserves leadership who will make it a priority, until we treat it as such we'll continue to fall behind.

former total

awec wrote: »

How do we fix our league? The Irish sides have traditionally always been the strongest in it, surely it's more a case that the SRU and the WRU need to get their house in order?

There is also the matter of the Italians, who 5 years later are still pretty crap.

The competitiveness of the league does not need to be fixed. The amount of money that it generates is the problem and that is, unfortunately, not fixable.

Neil3030

former total wrote: »

The competitiveness of the league does not need to be fixed. The amount of money that it generates is the problem and that is, unfortunately, not fixable.

But even if the league generated more funds we would still need to compete with teams happy to go into massive debt. We're going to hell in a handcart.

awec

former total wrote: »

The competitiveness of the league does not need to be fixed. The amount of money that it generates is the problem and that is, unfortunately, not fixable.

The two go hand in hand.

If the league were more competitive, with less dead rubber games with half the team rested, or less games where the result is a foregone conclusion, then it would generate more interest which would generate more money.

AdamD

French population: 66m
English population: 53m


Irish population: 6.4m
Scottish population: 5.3m
Welsh population: 3m
Italian population: 60m
Italian population who care about rugby: 76

There's a big reason why the French and English teams generate more tv money, they've more people to watch the games.

former total

awec wrote: »

The two go hand in hand.

If the league were more competitive, with less dead rubber games with half the team rested, or less games where the result is a foregone conclusion, then it would generate more interest which would generate more money.

Yeah, definitely, but it will never get to the point where it gets even close to the English and French deals.

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

The two go hand in hand.

If the league were more competitive, with less dead rubber games with half the team rested, or less games where the result is a foregone conclusion, then it would generate more interest which would generate more money.

The league has always been about as competitive as the English league for the most part. The French was way out ahead for a while, IMO because of the barrage and their better coverage.

But now that European qualification is on the line in the league, now that we have a good entertaining playoff structure, I really think we have great competition in the league.

errlloyd

awec wrote: »

There is also the matter of the Italians, who 5 years later are still pretty crap.

Treviso are significantly worse than when they joined.

awec

AdamD wrote: »

French population: 66m
English population: 53m


Irish population: 6.4m
Scottish population: 5.3m
Welsh population: 3m
Italian population: 60m
Italian population who care about rugby: 76

There's a big reason why the French and English teams generate more tv money, they've more people to watch the games.

How big is the following of the Top 14 in France? Anyone know?

aimee1

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The league has always been about as competitive as the English league for the most part. The French was way out ahead for a while, IMO because of the barrage and their better coverage.

But now that European qualification is on the line in the league, now that we have a good entertaining playoff structure, I really think we have great competition in the league.

I remember at the end of last season only one game in the final round was a dead rubber. This season looks like it will be even closer

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The league has always been about as competitive as the English league for the most part. The French was way out ahead for a while, IMO because of the barrage and their better coverage.

But now that European qualification is on the line in the league, now that we have a good entertaining playoff structure, I really think we have great competition in the league.

There is clearly a dip in competitiveness this year, whether that has a more long term impact or not is hard to say, but we had 5 pro12 in the latter stages in 2012 and we have none now (albeit nearly had 2).

Similarly to the NH / SH divide debate in the world cup, it's not as bad as people are making out, but there is definitely a dip at the moment. Some teams look to be pulling themselves gradually out of it and we'll see where things stand in a season or two.

Bridge93

Treviso and to a lesser extent Zebre get totally cleaned out of any decent players they have by the French and English on a scale 10 times worse than here.
Very difficult for them to grow as a product.