Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

CatFromHue

Yeah_Right wrote: »

The exception being players from the previous squad or long term squad members should get a call telling them they DIDN'T make it and why.

I think this does, or did, happen.

phog

Ian Costello saying negotiations are still ongoing with Earls

Costello knows the clock is ticking if the IRFU are to offer Earls an improved deal and convince him to stay at home.
“We heard the speculation this morning as well,” he told Red FM.
“From our point of view, that’s what it is – it’s a rumour, it’s speculation.
“His negotiations are with the IRFU, he’s centrally contracted.

CatFromHue

Smart from Costello to add in the line about him negotiating with the IRFU, if he does go that takes the heat off Munster.

As a semi neutral I have to say I do hope he goes for a big money deal. I fear he doesn't have long left in the game (I think he may have more head knocks than Sexton at this stage) so him getting a good few bob would go down nicely.

Buer

Even more so than Marty Moore, the IRFU need to get the finger out and sort this one out. Earls departing Munster is potentially a much greater blow than Moore given the knock on impact it could have within the Munster team and therefore the Irish team.

If he goes, I hope he gets an extortionate amount.

CatFromHue

Smart from Costello to add in the line about him negotiating with the IRFU, if he does go that takes the heat off Munster.

As a semi neutral I have to say I do hope he goes for a big money deal. I fear he doesn't have long left in the game (I think he may have more head knocks than Sexton at this stage) so him getting a good few bob would go down nicely.

CMOTDibbler

phog wrote: »

I'd expect this day and age that players would be notified the night before a training squad is announced.

Why? And what has it to do with this day and age? It's not as though we're suddenly reliant on the post for communications again.

The issue seems to be related to the gap in time between the players being informed and the media. There appears to be some inverse relationship between the size of that gap and the relative level of disrespect to the players.

Clearly we need to investigate this and try and ascertain the optimum delay which can convey the greatest respect to the players whilst at the same time informing the media within an acceptable time frame.

phog

Moore leaving and Earls on the brink of leaving and a few more players trying to negotiate contracts and Nucifora goes missing for some of them. Hardly inspires confidence on the process.

CatFromHue

phog wrote: »

Moore leaving and Earls on the brink of leaving and a few more players trying to negotiate contracts and Nucifora goes missing for some of them. Hardly inspires confidence on the process.

Is Nucifora meant to be in these negotiations?

I just looked up the press briefing from he was announced and I'm not sure.

This new role in the IRFU's professional structures will see David responsible for planning and evaluation, the elite player development pathway and succession planning and professional coach development and succession planning.
He will also oversee national team performance, provincial team performance, national age-grade teams and Women's team performance, sport science and medical services, elite referee development and National Professional Game Board (NPGB) and policy development.
http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/31584.php#.VqfjUvmLTIU

I think Brendan Fanning wrote an article that Declan Kidney had to do tactical briefings with a group of blazers and explain his reasoning for things.

My understanding of Nucifora's role is that he removes the blazers (amateurs) from the management structure and is almost like a Team Ireland head manager.

phog

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Why? And what has it to do with this day and age? It's not as though we're suddenly reliant on the post for communications again.

The issue seems to be related to the gap in time between the players being informed and the media. There appears to be some inverse relationship between the size of that gap and the relative level of disrespect to the players.

Clearly we need to investigate this and try and ascertain the optimum delay which can convey the greatest respect to the players whilst at the same time informing the media within an acceptable time frame.

The players are the very fact the IRFU exist. Treat them with some respect.

Tony Ward used to tell a story of the IRFU sending him a bill for a few quid for a call he made while on tour or something silly. Have we moved in much from how the IRFU treat the players. Sending an email to the players a few minutes before announcing the training squad, for an organisation the size of the IRFU it sounds amateurish.

Yeah_Right

swiwi_ wrote: »

NZ may struggle to replace Nonu/Smith in 2016, we see.

I wouldn't worry about it mate. Moala, Fekitoa, Crotty.... remember Crotty I think he might be back in Dublin in November.

English Lurker

Swiwi - Too late to say that on Bowe, he got a new contract in 2014 keeping him until summer 2018, which I remember well enough as it seemed mad at the time.

It's easier to wave your stars goodbye when you produce as many new ones as NZ but with the benefit of hindsight there's quite a few recent examples where Ireland could have been braver about waving in the future imo.

phog

CatFromHue wrote: »

Is Nucifora meant to be in these negotiations?

I just looked up the press briefing from he was announced and I'm not sure.



I think Brendan Fanning wrote an article that Declan Kidney had to do tactical briefings with a group of blazers and explain his reasoning for things.

My understanding of Nucifora's role is that he removes the blazers (amateurs) from the management structure and is almost like a Team Ireland head manager.

Sitting in on them? I don't know but I'd expect him to be involved and would like to think he wasn't doing it from the other side of the world.

CMOTDibbler

phog wrote: »

The players are the very fact the IRFU exist. Treat them with some respect.

Tony Ward used to tell a story of the IRFU sending him a bill for a few quid for a call he made while on tour or something silly. Have we moved in much from how the IRFU treat the players. Sending an email to the players a few minutes before announcing the training squad, for an organisation the size of the IRFU it sounds amateurish.

Tony Ward says lots of stuff. Completely irrelevant in this case.

There is nothing unprofessional about notifying players by email and then informing the media. What would be unprofessional is if they delayed informing the media and players or others leaked the information before an official release.

That's why the short gap.

The Rape of Lucretia

CatFromHue wrote: »

Smart from Costello to add in the line about him negotiating with the IRFU, if he does go that takes the heat off Munster.

As a semi neutral I have to say I do hope he goes for a big money deal. I fear he doesn't have long left in the game (I think he may have more head knocks than Sexton at this stage) so him getting a good few bob would go down nicely.

Is Earls going as a wing, centre, or fullback ?

Harry FM

If Joe Scmidt cannot see that CJ Stander and Jared Payne are two vastly better players in their positions than Jamie Heaslip and Rob Kearney respectively, I will have serious doubts about his ability to lead this team.

The Rape of Lucretia

Harry FM wrote: »

If Joe Scmidt cannot see that CJ Stander and Jared Payne are two vastly better players in their positions than Jamie Heaslip and Rob Kearney respectively, I will have serious doubts about his ability to lead this team.

Joe's two championships out of two certainly raise doubts about his ability to lead this team.

Mahatma Geansai

Buer wrote: »

Even more so than Marty Moore, the IRFU need to get the finger out and sort this one out. Earls departing Munster is potentially a much greater blow than Moore given the knock on impact it could have within the Munster team and therefore the Irish team.

If he goes, I hope he gets an extortionate amount.

I'd imagine that it would be equivalent to SOB leaving Leinster.

Especially with POC gone, Earls, for a list of reasons, is the player that resonates with the terraces of Thomond Park. If he heads off there is one less thing that separating provincial rugby from the money-rich franchises in England and France.

Clegg

I'd also have issues with saying Stander and Payne are vastly superior players tbh.

awec

We have been over this about 10 times in the past week, let's not go down the Stander Heaslip Payne Kearney route again.

phog

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Tony Ward says lots of stuff. Completely irrelevant in this case.

There is nothing unprofessional about notifying players by email and then informing the media. What would be unprofessional is if they delayed informing the media and players or others leaked the information before an official release.

That's why the short gap.

Why all the secrecy? It's a training squad.

There are at least 4 or 5 coaches, each one takes a group of players to ring. Infirm them the night before. Hey, you could even exclude the Kearney's, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, Healy, Toner, etc. Everyone knows they're there anyway.

Anyway, I think enough has been said about it.

jm08

swiwi_ wrote: »

Terrible ain't it jm08. All in such woeful form in 2015...

Personally, I think the NZRFU nailed it. There was only one way these players were going, and that was down. Conrad was already slowing up as illustrated by Johnny May. They parted on good terms after a handy enough end to the international season, and their considerable salaries will be put to good use I've no doubt. NZ may struggle to replace Nonu/Smith in 2016, we see. No worries for a replacement 10.

Now, I'm not deliberately choosing Leinster players here, but off the top of my head did Gordon Darcy in his last season, Isaac Boss, and Mike Ross really need contract extensions? Maybe they have all taken considerable wage cuts, and they're on peanuts now, I don't know.

But I asked on the Leinster thread a while back had any stalwart players simply not been offered contract extensions, rather than allowed to retire when they chose, and I think someone replied Malcolm O'Kelly IIRC, and that was it.

Tommy Bowe strikes me as another player who should be looked at seriously before offering new terms.

Unfortunately, age catches up with everyone, and I think while local loyalty is highly built into the Irish psyche, if retaining veteran players (eg Ross) at the expense of losing pups (eg Moore) is the cost of not taking a harsh stance once forwards hit 33ish plus, and backs 30ish then the IRFU and the clubs will need to review things.

So, New Zealand only dump players where they have a surplus of talent. They hang onto experienced players even though they are over 30. What is your point?

phog

Simon Thomas is a Welsh journalist, he wrote an outsiders view of the current state of Irish Rugby.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

phog wrote: »

Simon Thomas is a Welsh journalist, he wrote an outsiders view of the current state of Irish Rugby.

Is this the same guy who blocks everyone on twitter for daring to disagree with him?

b.gud

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Is this the same guy who blocks everyone on twitter for daring to disagree with him?

I think that's Stephen Jones your thinking of

phog

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Is this the same guy who blocks everyone on twitter for daring to disagree with him?

No but he does seem to block people who are rude or hostile in their replies. I find him to be very open to discussion on all rugby matters.

CMOTDibbler

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Is this the same guy who blocks everyone on twitter for daring to disagree with him?

No, that's Stephen Jones who writes for the Times.

errlloyd

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Is this the same guy who blocks everyone on twitter for daring to disagree with him?

No, that is Stephen Jones. Simon Thomas is a pretty good journo.

Teferi

No need to click that link anyway. It's Wales Online.

phog

phog wrote: »

Simon Thomas is a Welsh journalist, he wrote an outsiders view of the current state of Irish Rugby.

Scorched Earth Policy:

A scorched earth policy is a military strategy that involves destroying anything and everything that might be useful to the enemy or anyone else while advancing through or withdrawing from an area of combat.

Quoting Wales online a week before we play Wales in the six nations:

Quoting Wales Online policy is a Sports strategy that involves destroying anything and everything that might be useful to an Irish team or their supporters in the week before we play them.

Are we already reaching the point where people want Joe to fail so we can have a new coach?

phog

Deleted User wrote: »

Scorched Earth Policy:

A scorched earth policy is a military strategy that involves destroying anything and everything that might be useful to the enemy or anyone else while advancing through or withdrawing from an area of combat.

Quoting Wales online a week before we play Wales in the six nations:

Quoting Wales Online policy is a Sports strategy that involves destroying anything and everything that might be useful to an Irish team or their supporters in the week before we play them.

Are we already reaching the point where people want Joe to fail so we can have a new coach?

Personally I thought it was a decent and reasonably factual article.

Are we already reaching the point where people want Joe to fail so we can have a new coach?

Genuine question, do you think that there are Irish rugby fans that post here that want Joe and by extension Ireland to fail? Names by PM if you have them.

bilston

I don't see the problem with what Simon Thomas has written. Irish rugby is on a bit of a downer at the minute. It's up to Joe and the boys to give us all a lift.

phog

bilston wrote: »

I don't see the problem with what Simon Thomas has written. Irish rugby is on a bit of a downer at the minute. It's up to Joe and the boys to give us all a lift.

Me neither but the journalist, the online paper and or the article seems to have hit a nerve with some folk here.

phog

phog wrote: »

Genuine question, do you think that there are Irish rugby fans that post here that want Joe and by extension Ireland to fail? Names by PM if you have them.

From the article you quoted and find to be "very open to discussion on all rugby matters"

"there are undoubted challenges facing Schmidt in what is a challenging time overall for Irish rugby."

"After so many years of Heineken highlights, the re-branded Champions Cup is proving anything but champion for the Irish sides."

"Now to add those European woes, the provinces have this week been hit by two more body blows"

"And now the whammy has become a double whammy, with news that Munster utility back Keith Earls looks set to join Premiership champions Saracens, also on a three-year deal."

This is an "it's happened to us, now it's happening to you" piece from a newspaper known for being dismissive of Irish rugby, yet you chose it to promote... what point I don't know.

We're back to back six nations champions and have never had it so good, despite the RWC set back we're still in a better place than ever.

I'm not getting into the provincial implications of Joe having come from Leinster and selecting from there, but at times it's clear that people have an issue with this and on many occasions it's been implicated that there is a conflict of interest.

Zzippy

Deleted User wrote: »

Scorched Earth Policy:

A scorched earth policy is a military strategy that involves destroying anything and everything that might be useful to the enemy or anyone else while advancing through or withdrawing from an area of combat.

Quoting Wales online a week before we play Wales in the six nations:

Quoting Wales Online policy is a Sports strategy that involves destroying anything and everything that might be useful to an Irish team or their supporters in the week before we play them.

Are we already reaching the point where people want Joe to fail so we can have a new coach?

This is ridiculous. All the poster did was post a link to an article, which is of interest to some people here. How you extrapolated from that everything you said above is beyond me. Cop on.

phog

CatFromHue wrote: »

Smart from Costello to add in the line about him negotiating with the IRFU, if he does go that takes the heat off Munster.

But it is the IRFU that he's negotiating with, isn't it? Munster can't make him an offer.

If the rumours and I stress rumours are to be believed Earls has only been offered a two year deal by the IRFU.

phog

Deleted User wrote: »

From the article you quoted and find to be "very open to discussion on all rugby matters"

You're reading two different posts and getting confused.

My post with the link to the article never mentioned anything about open to discussion.

The "open to discussion" post was a reply to a query about who the journo was.

Pink Fairy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

From the article you quoted and find to be "very open to discussion on all rugby matters"

"there are undoubted challenges facing Schmidt in what is a challenging time overall for Irish rugby."

"After so many years of Heineken highlights, the re-branded Champions Cup is proving anything but champion for the Irish sides."

"Now to add those European woes, the provinces have this week been hit by two more body blows"

"And now the whammy has become a double whammy, with news that Munster utility back Keith Earls looks set to join Premiership champions Saracens, also on a three-year deal."

This is an "it's happened to us, now it's happening to you" piece from a newspaper known for being dismissive of Irish rugby, yet you chose it to promote... what point I don't know.

We're back to back six nations champions and have never had it so good, despite the RWC set back we're still in a better place than ever.

I'm not getting into the provincial implications of Joe having come from Leinster and selecting from there, but at times it's clear that they are there.

So Irish rugby is being stripped of some quality players, with more to follow... And its all about Joe selecting Leinster players for Ireland?
Not a flying fck! could I give about the national team at the moment. The provinces are in trouble, they die, the national team goes back into the wilderness, we become Scotland, the sooner some people recognise that we are at a major crossroads in the game the better for all concerned.
We shall now start to see the return to Ireland of players who weren't good enough to stay in the first place. But now squad personnel are needed.
I also believe the Project player scheme could be expanded soon as to allow more underage and young talented players come to these shores at a reasonable price

phog

phog wrote: »

You're reading two different posts and getting confused.

My post with the link to the article never mentioned anything about open to discussion.

The "open to discussion" post was a reply to a query about who the journo was.

I'm reading two post coming from your good self referring to the same subject matter.

So are you saying you agree or disagree with the journalists article?

phog

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm reading two post coming from your good self referring to the same subject matter.

So are you saying you agree or disagree with the journalists article?

This is what you said

From the article you quoted and find to be "very open to discussion on all rugby matters"

No where have I said that I find the article to "very open to discussion on all rugby matters"

To clarify, again. The post with the link no comment from me about the content. I posted the link because I thought the article might be of interest to posters here.

Fwiw, I agree with a lot of it.

Anyone who follows Simon will know he is very open to discussions on his feed. He engages with fans from Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales. I can't see how anyone gets these two posts mixed up.

phog

phog wrote: »

No where have I said that I find the article to "very open to discussion on all rugby matters"

phog wrote: »

I find him to be very open to discussion on all rugby matters.

.

phog

Deleted User wrote: »

.

Have you still not noticed, one post refers to the article the other refers to the journalist.

Good night.

WarZ

[Deleted User] wrote: »

.

Boom

WarZ

phog wrote: »

Have you still not noticed, one post refers to the article the other refers to the journalist.

Good night.

What are you talking about? Such semantics as usual

phog

phog wrote: »

Have you still not noticed, one post refers to the article the other refers to the journalist.

Good night.

You mean the article by the journalist?

Have a great evening.

flangemeistro

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We're back to back six nations champions and have never had it so good, despite the RWC set back we're still in a better place than ever.

Jesus H Christ, you're referring to our quarter final embarrassment against Argentina as a set back?

How are we in a better place than ever after once again exiting the RWC at the quarter final stage?

The majority of posters in here before the tournament said they wouldn't settle for anything else than our first RWC semi because we were "in a better place than ever"
Ya it kind of sounds familiar doesn't it.

I'm sick to death of the same people constantly referring to the back to back Six nations as a get out of jail card and thinking it makes Schmidt above question or criticism.

Yes that was an amazing achievement for us as a nation and at the time it felt like the be all and end all but after the anticlimax that was the RWC and having seen the bigger picture it puts into perspective how little being back to back six nations means on the world stage and how great the gap really is between the northern and southern hemisphere.

We've all heard the joke about the Six Nations being a playoff for 5th place in the RWC and it's funny because factually this year it's true.

I know I'm certainly not as excited this year as I normally am this time of year with less than two weeks to go to go our opening game,
Obviously I'll be getting behind Joe and the lads 100% for the next two months in my uncomfortably tight bosphorus green but no matter the results and no matter the outcome it will be hard not drift back to how inadequate the back to back six nations champions were on the world stage so will it really matter if we're 3 time 4 time or even undefeated come 2019 in the land of the rising sun.

Only time will tell if we are going to lock ourselves in this familiar safe bubble for the next four years and become the celtic of the rugby world?
Or are we going to tolerate short term disappointment while we build for 2019 so we can truly compete as equals with the top 3 in the world and not just sneak up on them every so often in the rankings because of a combination of results.

flangemeistro

flangemeistro wrote: »

Jesus H Christ, you're referring to our quarter final embarrassment against Argentina as a set back?

How are we in a better place than ever after once again exiting the RWC at the quarter final stage?

The majority of posters in here before the tournament said they wouldn't settle for anything else than our first RWC semi because we were "in a better place than ever"
Ya it kind of sounds familiar doesn't it.

I'm sick to death of the same people constantly referring to the back to back Six nations as a get out of jail card and thinking it makes Schmidt above question or criticism.

Yes that was an amazing achievement for us as a nation and at the time it felt like the be all and end all but after the anticlimax that was the RWC and having seen the bigger picture it puts into perspective how little being back to back six nations means on the world stage and how great the gap really is between the northern and southern hemisphere.

We've all heard the joke about the Six Nations being a playoff for 5th place in the RWC and it's funny because factually this year it's true.

I know I'm certainly not as excited this year as I normally am this time of year with less than two weeks to go to go our opening game,
Obviously I'll be getting behind Joe and the lads 100% for the next two months in my uncomfortably tight bosphorus green but no matter the results and no matter the outcome it will be hard not drift back to how inadequate the back to back six nations champions were on the world stage so will it really matter if we're 3 time 4 time or even undefeated come 2019 in the land of the rising sun.

Only time will tell if we are going to lock ourselves in this familiar safe bubble for the next four years and become the celtic of the rugby world?
Or are we going to tolerate short term disappointment while we build for 2019 so we can truly compete as equals with the top 3 in the world and not just sneak up on them every so often in the rankings because of a combination of results.

We lost 1/3 of our team before the quarter finals and it was the most important 1/3.

Scotland should have beaten Australia, Wales were almost there against south Africa. It's not all doom and gloom, we're allowed and in fact entitled to be proud of our last two years of success.

It's not nearly as black and white as you're making out and whilst it's been a difficult time post world cup all we can really do is support a side that is predominantly winning of late and keep encouraging them to do so.

jm08

Deleted User wrote: »

We lost 1/3 of our team before the quarter finals and it was the most important 1/3.

Scotland should have beaten Australia, Wales were almost there against south Africa. It's not all doom and gloom, we're allowed and in fact entitled to be proud of our last two years of success.

It's not nearly as black and white as you're making out and whilst it's been a difficult time post world cup all we can really do is support a side that is predominantly winning of late and keep encouraging them to do so.

Some of that was with poor discipline (SOB), along with the lack of preparation of Jackson at flyhalf would have gone along with that. There were many advocating on this forum that POC should be dropped for Henderson (I know:)), not to mention that POM shouldn't even be at the world cup.

5/10 to the coaching staff for preparation.

Bazzo

jm08 wrote: »

Some of that was with poor discipline (SOB), along with the lack of preparation of Jackson at flyhalf would have gone along with that. There were many advocating on this forum that POC should be dropped for Henderson (I know:)), not to mention that POM shouldn't even be at the world cup.

5/10 to the coaching staff for preparation.

I'm going to regret rowing in to this conversation at all, but I don't think anybody was advocating that. There was a lot of debate about Toner vs Henderson and there was also mention that Henderson was likely to be POC's successor.

clsmooth

jm08 wrote: »

Some of that was with poor discipline (SOB), along with the lack of preparation of Jackson at flyhalf would have gone along with that. There were many advocating on this forum that POC should be dropped for Henderson (I know:)), not to mention that POM shouldn't even be at the world cup.

5/10 to the coaching staff for preparation.

POC shouldn't have started and POM shouldn't have been there? Not sure where that's from. I think Joe got it spot on at the World Cup aside from putting Earls in at 13. That to me was his big mistake. I thought he'd be exposed v France but came though that reasonably well. Argentina though was a different story. But that was due to the injury to Payne. Not much else he could do missing 5 first teamers against Argentina.

Yeah_Right

jm08 wrote: »

lack of preparation of Jackson at flyhalf would have gone along with that. There were many advocating on this forum that POC should be dropped for Henderson (I know:)), not to mention that POM shouldn't even be at the World Cup.

Sorry but this strikes me as revisionist bs. Who was saying that about POM and POC? Did they know anything about rugby? Were they trolls?

I'll give you the comment on Jackson but a lot of fans and pundits said Madigan had to start the quarterfinal after his performance off the bench against France.