Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

Mahatma Geansai

The injury is a disaster for Fitzgerald and will hugely weaken our matchday squad. It'll be interesting to see who comes into the 23 jersey now. Zebo would probably be the next in line as he offers proven versatility at international level. Earls will cover the centre positions from 11.

If Payne started at 15 we would have a side much better placed to cover for in-game injuries. However, I don't think Joe would risk such a selection if it isn't injury-enforced.

Mahatma Geansai

jacothelad wrote: »

Madigan should absolutely be the sub 10. If he was the man in possession in October, what has changed between then and now? Jackson was playing well then and is playing well now. He is a better 10 but Madigan is a top notch rugby player.

Hopefully Joe will acknowledge his selection mistakes from the RWC and seek to right them.

mfceiling

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

The injury is a disaster for Fitzgerald and will hugely weaken our matchday squad. It'll be interesting to see who comes into the 23 jersey now. Zebo would probably be the next in line as he offers proven versatility at international level. Earls will cover the centre positions from 11.

If Payne started at 15 we would have a side much better placed to cover for in-game injuries. However, I don't think Joe would risk such a selection if it isn't injury-enforced.

I wouldn't say Zebo has proven versatility at international level. He's a solid if not spectacular winger but is in no way a decent full back. He's been caught out positionally there and his tackling recently is ROG esque. We're in trouble if we're relying on Zebo as "utility" back.

former total

mfceiling wrote: »

I wouldn't say Zebo has proven versatility at international level. He's a solid if not spectacular winger but is in no way a decent full back. He's been caught out positionally there and his tackling recently is ROG esque. We're in trouble if we're relying on Zebo as "utility" back.

Yeah, Zebo is going backwards. The only really versatile OB remaining is Earls so we might see Trimble and DK start with him on the bench.

bilston

former total wrote: »

Yeah, Zebo is going backwards. The only really versatile OB remaining is Earls so we might see Trimble and DK start with him on the bench.

Payne and Henshaw are pretty versatile.

jm08

jacothelad wrote: »

Who is on here? There are certainly some who seem to be......well, spout enough makey uppy crud to fill the pages.

BTW, I think Kearney plays the way he does because that's the way he plays. He played pretty much the same under Uncle Deccie. He makes the best of what he has. Like all players he can have a dip in or a loss of form. Maybe he's just a bit jaded. A lot of the RWC players seem to be.

I'd say its more that Kearney played his best rugby when his best attribute was in vogue around '09 /10. He was the best in the world under a high ball with a great boot as well.

Mahatma Geansai

former total wrote: »

Yeah, Zebo is going backwards. The only really versatile OB remaining is Earls so we might see Trimble and DK start with him on the bench.

If Kearney starts ahead of Earls, I would hope that Joe is fielded some difficult questions about his huge and damaging blindspot for Dave. Both players are in completely different leagues.

jm08

former total wrote: »

Yeah, Zebo is going backwards. The only really versatile OB remaining is Earls so we might see Trimble and DK start with him on the bench.

Zebo was never versatile. He always played left wing. He is now trying out fullback and rarely if ever gets a chance to play on the wing now with Ireland.

edit. With Luke Fitz out, he may get a chance as he is left footed like Luke.

former total

bilston wrote: »

Payne and Henshaw are pretty versatile.

But they'll be starting.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

If Kearney starts ahead of Earls, I would hope that Joe is fielded some difficult questions about his huge and damaging blindspot for Dave. Both players are in completely different leagues.

Both players have been average at best this season. If Fitzgerald hadn't gone and injured himself they should have been battling for a place on the bench. In my opinion.

jm08

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Both players have been average at best this season. If Fitzgerald hadn't gone and injured himself they should have been battling for a place on the bench. In my opinion.

Do you ever watch Keith Earls play?

The Rape of Lucretia

jm08 wrote: »

I'd say its more that Kearney played his best rugby when his best attribute was in vogue around '09 /10. He was the best in the world under a high ball with a great boot as well.

He is playing the same level of rugby all the time. His fielding under a high ball, his Howitzer left boot, his tackling, his positioning, decision making, and his contesible contesting are as good now as they were then. His is just as valuable to the team now.

aimee1

jm08 wrote: »

Zebo was never versatile. He always played left wing. He is now trying out fullback.

Zebo was played at FB in 2012 against SA and Argentina when Kidney was coach

jm08

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

He is playing the same level of rugby all the time. His fielding under a high ball, his Howitzer left boot, his tackling, his positioning, decision making, and his contesible contesting are as good now as they were then. His is just as valuable to the team now.

There is not as much kicking of the ball as back in 09&10. His tackling was always **** whatever about the rest. He always stays well back in the Ireland 22, so of course his decision making is going to be good.

aimee1

former total wrote: »

But they'll be starting.

which is why Madigan could bench ahead of Jackson to limit the need to rejig the backline

The Rape of Lucretia

aimee1 wrote: »

Zebo was played at FB in 2012 against SA and Argentina when Kidney was coach

With what other choices unavailable do you remember ?
Did they enhance, or suggest he indeed isnt versatile ? (Cant remember those games in detail tbh).

jm08

aimee1 wrote: »

Zebo was played at FB in 2012 against SA and Argentina when Kidney was coach

Yep. His first time to play fullback was v. SA. He never played fullback for Munster - always on the left wing (up to recently).

Clegg

For me it should have been Trimble and Earls on the wing with Fitz on the bench covering wing and centre. His injury now leaves the door open for Zebo or Kearney neither of whom fill me with any sort of confidence. One because he failed at the biggest stage and the other because he's been in crap form since October. What a lovely choice to make.

aimee1

jm08 wrote: »

Yep. His first time to play fullback was v. SA. He never played fullback for Munster - always on the left wing (up to recently).

and there was several calls for him to be picked ahead of RK on this forum over the last few years too.

You said he was now being asked to try fullback because he was always playing wing when that simply isnt the case.

former total

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Both players have been average at best this season. If Fitzgerald hadn't gone and injured himself they should have been battling for a place on the bench. In my opinion.

Dave K has been on fire. Earls was poor in Paris but generally good. No issues with either on form.

aimee1

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

With what other choices unavailable do you remember ?
Did they enhance, or suggest he indeed isnt versatile ? (Cant remember those games in detail tbh).

All i remember was the argentina game was important to ensure we stayed in the top 8 seeds for the impending RWC draw. We lost to SA scoring just 4 penalties, we beat the Argies handily enough.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

former total wrote: »

Dave K has been on fire. Earls was poor in Paris but generally good. No issues with either on form.

I disagree. Dave K has had 2 or 3 good games over the last few weeks, which is good timing, granted. Earls has been average all season, but then Munster have been poor generally.

I think generally speaking all our wingers are average compared to the options some other countries have. So it's almost a pointless argument. Which of our average wingers will start and which of our average wingers will bench. Not something to get too worked up about.

Trimble should start and who is on the other wing won't make much difference. Unless it's Earls and he has to try and tackle a static Italian again

.ak

Gutted Fitzgerald is out. I think he either would've started at 11 or would've been the ideal 23.

So I think we'll see this lineup now;

Kearney
Trimble
Payne
Henshaw
Kearney
Sexton
Murray
Heaslip
SOB
Ruddock
McCarthy
Toner
White
Best
MCGrath

Cronin
Cronin
Furlong
Ryan
Stander
Reddan
Madigan
Earls

Mahatma Geansai

.ak wrote: »

Gutted Fitzgerald is out. I think he either would've started at 11 or would've been the ideal 23.

So I think we'll see this lineup now;

Kearney
Trimble
Payne
Henshaw
Kearney
Sexton
Murray
Heaslip
SOB
Ruddock
McCarthy
Toner
White
Best
MCGrath

Cronin
Cronin
Furlong
Ryan
Stander
Reddan
Madigan
Earls

That's an extremely uninspiriing side. The front five of the pack aren't 6N standard; only McGrath and Best offer top international quality.The backrow aren't performing for their club; interestingly, last night Ferris said that Stander is the best backrow in Europe.

In the backs, the Kearney brothers offer little-to-nothing in attack; Dave isn't international quality. Sexton's form and fitness is a huge worry. Both of the centres are playing out of position too. Murray isn't in great form. Trimble is the only exciting prospect.

On the bench, Jackson would have to be wondering what else he can do to get a look-in. He's been much better than Sexton and Madigan this year. Reddan needs to be phased out also.

awec

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

That's an extremely uninspiriing side. The front five of the pack aren't 6N standard; only McGrath and Best offer top international quality.The backrow aren't performing for their club; interestingly, last night Ferris said that Stander is the best backrow in Europe.

In the backs, the Kearney brothers offer little-to-nothing in attack; Dave isn't international quality. Sexton's form and fitness is a huge worry. Both of the centres are playing out of position too. Murray isn't in great form. Trimble is the only exciting prospect.

On the bench, Jackson would have to be wondering what else he can do to get a look-in. He's been much better than Sexton and Madigan this year. Reddan needs to be phased out also.

Did he not say he is the form back row in Europe? Different thing.

Clegg

Best backrow in Europe is SoB or Parisse. Been that way for the last 5 years. We're blessed to have O'Brien. Just a shame he can't stay fit more often.

Neil3030

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

That's an extremely uninspiriing side. The front five of the pack aren't 6N standard; only McGrath and Best offer top international quality.The backrow aren't performing for their club; interestingly, last night Ferris said that Stander is the best backrow in Europe.

In the backs, the Kearney brothers offer little-to-nothing in attack; Dave isn't international quality. Sexton's form and fitness is a huge worry. Both of the centres are playing out of position too. Murray isn't in great form. Trimble is the only exciting prospect.

On the bench, Jackson would have to be wondering what else he can do to get a look-in. He's been much better than Sexton and Madigan this year. Reddan needs to be phased out also.

So much in here to probe but i'll go with just the single point that perplexes me the most - what aspect of Sean O'Brien's performances for Leinster this season could be considered not performing?

penybont exile

.ak wrote: »

Gutted Fitzgerald is out. I think he either would've started at 11 or would've been the ideal 23.

So I think we'll see this lineup now;

Kearney
Trimble
Payne
Henshaw
Kearney
Sexton
Murray
Heaslip
SOB
Ruddock
McCarthy
Toner
White
Best
MCGrath

Cronin
Cronin
Furlong
Ryan
Stander
Reddan
Madigan
Earls

I would never under estimate an Irish team playing at home ........

.... however if Wales lose to that line-up next week I'd be extremely disappointed.

irishbucsfan

Neil3030 wrote: »

So much in here to probe but i'll go with just the single point that perplexes me the most - what aspect of Sean O'Brien's performances for Leinster this season could be considered not performing?

Rory Best isn't 6 Nations standard, that's the one that caught me out!


For me I think the team is about as good as we can manage, and it's good enough to win. One change I'd make, as I always would, is to get Keith Earls into the starting team. I would have Earls on the right wing and Trimble on he left.

thomond2006

.ak wrote: »

Gutted Fitzgerald is out. I think he either would've started at 11 or would've been the ideal 23.

So I think we'll see this lineup now;

Kearney
Trimble
Payne
Henshaw
Kearney
Sexton
Murray
Heaslip
SOB
Ruddock
McCarthy
Toner
White
Best
MCGrath

Cronin
Cronin
Furlong
Ryan
Stander
Reddan
Madigan
Earls

I like Dave Kearney but you cannot seriously pick him ahead of Earls. There is no way Reddan (35) should bench and McCarthy (34) start unless other players are injured or completely off form. Similarly Furlong should start ahead of White.

Neil3030

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Rory Best isn't 6 Nations standard, that's the one that caught me out!

Well i think (hope) he qualified that by excepting Best and McGrath? Though a tiny bit melodramatic to say the front 5 aren't international standard (bar 40% of them)....

former total

thomond2006 wrote: »

I like Dave Kearney but you cannot seriously pick him ahead of Earls. There is no way Reddan (35) should bench and McCarthy (34) start unless other players are injured or completely off form. Similarly Furlong should start ahead of White.

McCarthy's age is less of a factor when the alternative is 32; neither choice is planning for the future.

I don't care about who plays on the wing. I'm just bored of it now. They're all about equivalent, there is no stand out and no weak link.

Reddan will bench. Let's all make our peace with that now.

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

I like Dave Kearney but you cannot seriously pick him ahead of Earls. There is no way Reddan (35) should bench and McCarthy (34) start unless other players are injured or completely off form. Similarly Furlong should start ahead of White.

Reddan is certainly going to be on the bench I'd imagine.

In the absence of Henderson we're very short in the 2nd row. I think we're stuck between McCarthy being the form 2nd row in Ireland by a long way, but being old, meanwhile Donncha Ryan is devoid of form. If Ryan shows something in training I'd prefer him as a starter though. Devin Toner is obviously going to start and he's the best option in the squad anyway.

awec

McCarthy is good enough to start, the concern is that he will probably be blowing out his arse by 50 minutes.

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

McCarthy is good enough to start, the concern is that he will probably be blowing out his arse by 50 minutes.

That's how I see it, which is why I'd prefer him on the bench really if Ryan is able to get back to his best.

Quint2010

Was Henshaw playing inside or outside centre for Connacht yesterday? I noticed he had 13 on his back?

aimee1

irishbucsfan wrote: »

That's how I see it, which is why I'd prefer him on the bench really if Ryan is able to get back to his best.

maybe JS sees it different, start McCarthy because if Ryan or Toner go down after 10 minutes McCarthy has to go 70

Think that was brought up in the Healy/McGrath debate in the rwc too

molloyjh

We have some serious issues with our tight 5 at the moment. TH and lock in particular. Lukes form (and his proven ability at this level) is another huge loss. It's going to be a very, eh, interesting 6 Nations.

wp_rathead

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

That's an extremely uninspiriing side. The front five of the pack aren't 6N standard; only McGrath and Best offer top international quality.

Saying Toner is not 6N standard is laughable
McCarthy and White are decent Replacements for the Injured Henderson and Ross

wp_rathead

Quint2010 wrote: »

Was Henshaw playing inside or outside centre for Connacht yesterday? I noticed he had 13 on his back?

He pretty much played outside centre majority of match - spent some time at inside centre though (which isn't uncommon when himself and Bundee are centre partners)

aimee1

molloyjh wrote: »

We have some serious issues with our tight 5 at the moment. TH and lock in particular. Lukes form (and his proven ability at this level) is another huge loss. It's going to be a very, eh, interesting 6 Nations.

Henderson, Healy, Moore get fit and stay fit and find form is important going forward. Molony has a big future if he keeps progressing and Furlong is improving all the time. Not sure whats available in other provinces at TH and Lock.

CMOTDibbler

penybont exile wrote: »

I would never under estimate an Irish team playing at home ........

.... however if Wales lose to that line-up next week I'd be extremely disappointed.

Yep, we're in a bit of trouble with injuries... again. Problem is that again it's in areas that we have poor/no backup and key players out.

Really hard to see anything other than a Welsh win.

CMOTDibbler

wp_rathead wrote: »

He pretty much played outside centre majority of match - spent some time at inside centre though (which isn't uncommon when himself and Bundee are centre partners)

He was on either wing too (and I only saw about twenty minutes of the match).

CMOTDibbler

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Yep, we're in a bit of trouble with injuries... again. Problem is that again it's in areas that we have poor/no backup and key players out.

Really hard to see anything other than a Welsh win.

The last time we played SA we were in such bad shape injury wise that I was worried we would have a starting 23.

The lads all put their hands up and it was a good day at the office. Wales will be a good test, especially without Paulie but we've every chance of beating them and that team that .ak posted wouldn't concern be greatly, albeit obviously it could be better.

former total

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Yep, we're in a bit of trouble with injuries... again. Problem is that again it's in areas that we have poor/no backup and key players out.

Really hard to see anything other than a Welsh win.

Are we?

POM vs Ruddock/Stander - not a huge drop
Ross vs White/Furlong - ditto
Bowe vs Trimble/Kearney/Earls - meh
Healy vs McGrath - probably a good thing

The only really significant difference is Henderson vs McCarthy/Ryan, we lose a lot in terms of ball carrying.

Unless I'm forgetting someone major?

sydthebeat

Luke fitz - disruption across the back line...

CMOTDibbler

former total wrote: »

Are we?

POM vs Ruddock/Stander - not a huge drop
Ross vs White/Furlong - ditto
Bowe vs Trimble/Kearney/Earls - meh
Healy vs McGrath - probably a good thing

The only really significant difference is Henderson vs McCarthy/Ryan, we lose a lot in terms of ball carrying.

Unless I'm forgetting someone major?

As syd pointed out, Luke Fitz is a key player. Even in the 23 shirt he has a big part to play.

The thing with the other positions is not so much who's replacing them as who's next in line. Being down Henderson is an issue, but McCarthy is playing well, but he's only good for 50ish minutes which means Donncha Ryan who's been out of form for a while.

Same with TH. Basically another injury would screw us in any of those positions.

Pink Fairy

wp_rathead wrote: »

Saying Toner is not 6N standard is laughable
McCarthy and White are decent Replacements for the Injured Henderson and Ross

Toner is 6n standard.... For Italy

aimee1

Pink Fairy wrote: »

Toner is 6n standard.... For Italy

his medals say otherwise.

Pink Fairy

aimee1 wrote: »

his medals say otherwise.

:rolleyes:
Do I really have to state every time when I'm being facetious?