Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

stephen_n

Is Henshaw finished in college now, has he not stated himself he wants to move away from Connacht or did I pick that up wrong?

The Rape of Lucretia

MJohnston wrote: »

Have to agree - I don't understand this idea that we've been boring or unenjoyable over the last couple of years.

Have to agree too.

You spend years bored to tears watching the likes of O'Driscoll, Darcy, Hickie, O'Gara, Horgan, with this endless, jink here, one hand offload there, break the line here routine ad nauseam.
Longing for some exciting consistent long kicks from your own half, and dreaming of backs who will never make the mistake of trying to beat the tackler but will take the tackle on their own terms and recycle the ball reliably. Oh for the thrill of a full backline of up and under contesters as their main offensive tactic.

Then the dream really does come true and you still have people complaining.

Baffled.

Zzippy

stephen_n wrote: »

Is Henshaw finished in college now, has he not stated himself he wants to move away from Connacht or did I pick that up wrong?

No, he took a year out this year because of the World Cup. I'm not sure how committed he is to his course but he has another year to go to get a degree if he wants it. He has never stated he wants to leave, that's been said in the media but the player himself has never said anything to that effect.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Watching Against the Head there and they were talking about the enforced changes up front. Not sure if Jackman was letting inside info slip or, like many of us, just assumes he knows who is going to be in the starting 15 but he said something about Toner calling lineout and pressure on Nathan White in the scrums.

aimee1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Watching Against the Head there and they were talking about the enforced changes up front. Not sure if Jackman was letting inside info slip or, like many of us, just assumes he knows who is going to be in the starting 15 but he said something about Toner calling lineout and pressure on Nathan White in the scrums.

Toner will call the lineout anyways, its him and one of McCarthy or Ryan so that makes logical sense and White was at the RWC so logic suggests he is going to be in the mix to start

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

aimee1 wrote: »

Toner will call the lineout anyways, its him and one of McCarthy or Ryan so that makes logical sense and White was at the RWC so logic suggests he is going to be in the mix to start

I know, just seems like those two names in particular have come up a few times in debates on here about who will/won't should/shouldn't be starting.

stephen_n

Zzippy wrote: »

No, he took a year out this year because of the World Cup. I'm not sure how committed he is to his course but he has another year to go to get a degree if he wants it. He has never stated he wants to leave, that's been said in the media but the player himself has never said anything to that effect.

Wasn't sure if he said it or that was just how it was spun. Another year in college and a 1 year extension would make sense though, if the rumors are right.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Players get a 40% tax rebate when they retire? I never knew that.

Quinlan saying that Earls pretty much had his bag packed and one foot on the plane last week. Was a very last minute intervention to keep him at Munster.

Podge_irl

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Players get a 40% tax rebate when they retire? I never knew that.

Quinlan saying that Earls pretty much had his bag packed and one foot on the plane last week. Was a very last minute intervention to keep him at Munster.

40% of their tax paid on their 10 highest earning years. You used to have to finish your career in Ireland to get it which cause a bit of a blockage of old players. They changed it so that you can finish up anywhere now.

aimee1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Players get a 40% tax rebate when they retire? I never knew that.

Quinlan saying that Earls pretty much had his bag packed and one foot on the plane last week. Was a very last minute intervention to keep him at Munster.

They can claim back the top 10 years of their careers, used to have to retire in ireland but now that is changed to retiring in the european union. It came in about 2000-2001 i think and the change was one about 3 years ago. It is part of the reason that BOD and many of his era stayed in ireland throughout their careers

CatFromHue

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Players get a 40% tax rebate when they retire? I never knew that.

Quinlan saying that Earls pretty much had his bag packed and one foot on the plane last week. Was a very last minute intervention to keep him at Munster.

Yeah not surprised.

All the reports were that it was a 3 year deal he wanted and until the last min the IRFU were only offering 2, compared to Sarries 3.

Zzippy

It was changed because it was contrary to EU legislation IIRC.

Podge_irl

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The tax laws were changed because they were holding up player development in three provinces ?

Oh I have no clue on the thinking behind the change, merely commenting on the material impact. It was, and continues to be, of particular benefit to rugby above other sports though.

The Rape of Lucretia

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Quinlan saying that Earls pretty much had his bag packed and one foot on the plane last week. Was a very last minute intervention to keep him at Munster.

Can only have been a half hearted foot though if he was so dissuaded at such a late stage. Like Murray, Zebo, and I stepped in and I stepped out again Moore getting into a legal tangle, I think there is a lot of call my bluff going on.
Mads probably the only kosher one, where he doesnt want to waste his priming bench warming.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

So like Paul O'Connell is presumably getting a nice wage from Toulon, but his tax is being paid in France. ... can he claim that back when he retires? Or is it only on tax actually paid here?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Can only have been a half hearted foot though if he was so dissuaded at such a late stage. Like Murray, Zebo, and I stepped in and I stepped out again Moore getting into a legal tangle, I think there is a lot of call my bluff going on.
Mads probably the only kosher one, where he doesnt want to waste his priming bench warming.

Just going on what Quinlan said, he seemed adamant that Earls was gone. Said it wasn't just him angling for a better deal, he was 100% on his way out. Someone else suggested there it was the 3 years was the sticking point so maybe that's it.

aimee1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

So like Paul O'Connell is presumably getting a nice wage from Toulon, but his tax is being paid in France. ... can he claim that back when he retires? Or is it only on tax actually paid here?

the 'best' 10 years in ireland, once you retire within the EU. AFAIK anyway

bilston

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Watching Against the Head there and they were talking about the enforced changes up front. Not sure if Jackman was letting inside info slip or, like many of us, just assumes he knows who is going to be in the starting 15 but he said something about Toner calling lineout and pressure on Nathan White in the scrums.

Balls forgot that was on. It will probably be geo blocked for me as well on RTE player...

wp_rathead

Who was presenting AtH and who was on the panel?
Is it all 6N or did they discuss Pro12? (unlikely seen as RTE seem to hate that competition)

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

wp_rathead wrote: »

Who was presenting AtH and who was on the panel?
Is it all 6N or did they discuss Pro12? (unlikely seen as RTE seem to hate that competition)

Joanne Cantwell is presenting and this week Alan Quinlan, Bernard Jackman and Donal Lenihan were on the panel. They cover all the rugby, 6 Nations, Pro 12, AIL (or whatever it's called now) and there was a piece on the Women's team too.

wp_rathead

Ah nice one
Wish there was a "The Sunday Game" style Rugby show with Pro12 and AIL (men and women's) all season long
Also delighted Joanne Cantwell is back doing it (although it's purely due Daire O'Brien getting the 6 Nations RTE hot seat)

phog

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Players get a 40% tax rebate when they retire? I never knew that.

Quinlan saying that Earls pretty much had his bag packed and one foot on the plane last week. Was a very last minute intervention to keep him at Munster.

Irish players that are taxed by Irish Revenue get the rebate. I don't know if Her Majesty's revenue have a similar tax rebate.

The rumour in Limerick is that Keith couldn't get a three year deal until the last minute. If he was on a two year deal he was gone.

jacothelad

phog wrote: »

Irish players that are taxed by Irish Revenue get the rebate. I don't know if Her Majesty's revenue have a similar tax rebate.

The rumour in Limerick is that Keith couldn't get a three year deal until the last minute. If he was on a two year deal he was gone.

No. HMRC only give rebates to the likes of Google, Vodaphone etc...and those Non-doms who contribute funds to the Tory party.

The Rape of Lucretia

phog wrote: »

Irish players that are taxed by Irish Revenue get the rebate. I don't know if Her Majesty's revenue have a similar tax rebate.

The rumour in Limerick is that Keith couldn't get a three year deal until the last minute. If he was on a two year deal he was gone.

Still shows that fundamentally they dont want to go, but will play the negotiation tango. It wasnt that he used that concession from the IRFU to go back and get his French offer upped. It helped that there were a group of them at it, furthering the frightners on the IRFU.

Zzippy

phog wrote: »

Irish players that are taxed by Irish Revenue get the rebate. I don't know if Her Majesty's revenue have a similar tax rebate.

The rumour in Limerick is that Keith couldn't get a three year deal until the last minute. If he was on a two year deal he was gone.

Are you sure it's only Irish players? I thought it was any players playing in the Republic of Ireland. Maybe that's what you meant but it comes across as discriminatory the way it's worded. I doubt withholding it from NIQs would be defensible in law.

former total

Zzippy wrote: »

Are you sure it's only Irish players? I thought it was any players playing in the Republic of Ireland. Maybe that's what you meant but it comes across as discriminatory the way it's worded. I doubt withholding it from NIQs would be defensible in law.

Yeah foreigners get it too.

aimee1

former total wrote: »

Yeah foreigners get it too.

Do they have to be here for ten years tho? I think they do.

former total

aimee1 wrote: »

Do they have to be here for ten years tho? I think they do.

No, you can claim up to ten years relief but there's no minimum. You have to be in Europe when you retire though so it limits it somewhat.

irishbucsfan

aimee1 wrote: »

Do they have to be here for ten years tho? I think they do.

Nacewa got it, I believe. So that would mean no.

Don't think anyone has to be here for 10 years.

Yeah_Right

former total wrote: »

No, you can claim up to ten years relief but there's no minimum. You have to be in Europe when you retire though so it limits it somewhat.

Yeah Nacewa, Cullen and Howlett all got it. It's one of things that made Ireland attractive to players nearing the end of their career. I guess if Irish players can go else where in the EU and still claim it back when they retire it's not such an incentive to keep them at home.

irishbucsfan

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Yeah Nacewa, Cullen and Howlett all got it. It's one of things that made Ireland attractive to players nearing the end of their career. I guess if Irish players can go else where in the EU and still claim it back when they retire it's not such an incentive to keep them at home.

They still can only claim tax they pay in Ireland

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

So Nacewa got it and then unretired? Seems a bit sneaky

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

The highlights of the Connacht game from the weekend are on Setanta at the moment. Henshaw looks like he's beefed up a bit even since November.

Zzippy

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

So Nacewa got it and then unretired? Seems a bit sneaky

Long as he stays in Ireland and retires here again it wouldn't make any difference. He's back paying tax, and will be able to claim 40% of that back when he retires again.

Podge_irl

Zzippy wrote: »

Long as he stays in Ireland and retires here again it wouldn't make any difference. He's back paying tax, and will be able to claim 40% of that back when he retires again.

It is a slightly curious situation though. Technically he couldn't play in NZ or he would forfeit it and I suppose while it makes no sense to claim it back off him just to repay it he has no longer retired so its a bit weird.

Aaaaanyway, team named Thursday?

AbusesToilets

So is Fitz actually ruled out? Murray on 42 seemed to imply that there was uncertainty in that regard.

stephen_n

Podge_irl wrote: »

It is a slightly curious situation though. Technically he couldn't play in NZ or he would forfeit it and I suppose while it makes no sense to claim it back off him just to repay it he has no longer retired so its a bit weird.

Aaaaanyway, team named Thursday?

Friday I assume for a Sunday game. Going by joes previous approach.

irishbucsfan

stephen_n wrote: »

Friday I assume for a Sunday game. Going by joes previous approach.

Friday at 2pm I believe

phog

Zzippy wrote: »

Are you sure it's only Irish players? I thought it was any players playing in the Republic of Ireland. Maybe that's what you meant but it comes across as discriminatory the way it's worded. I doubt withholding it from NIQs would be defensible in law.

Actually, I thought it was only Irish players, I thought the scheme was to entice sports persons to stay at home and represent their country.

In saying that, now that Isa has been mentioned as a recipient of the scheme I have a vague recollection of it mentioned before.

Podge_irl

phog wrote: »

Actually, I thought it was only Irish players, I thought the scheme was to entice sports persons to stay at home and represent their country.

In saying that, now that Isa has been mentioned as a recipient of the scheme I have a vague recollection of it mentioned before.

Wouldn't be legal to only open it to Irish players. Mind you I have no idea of the ins and outs of how it applies to non-EU people, but EU wise they couldn't restrict it.

Zzippy

phog wrote: »

Actually, I thought it was only Irish players, I thought the scheme was to entice sports persons to stay at home and represent their country.

In saying that, now that Isa has been mentioned as a recipient of the scheme I have a vague recollection of it mentioned before.

Yeah, I don't think legally you could have a tax break that discriminates between players based solely on their nationality. It was probably designed for the reason you mention, and as we have so few NIQ players it probably has had that effect.

former total

Podge_irl wrote: »

Wouldn't be legal to only open it to Irish players. Mind you I have no idea of the ins and outs of how it applies to non-EU people, but EU wise they couldn't restrict it.

Ireland has a reciprocal tax agreement with NZ so Nacewa would be entitled to equal treatment.

Bazzo

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

The highlights of the Connacht game from the weekend are on Setanta at the moment. Henshaw looks like he's beefed up a bit even since November.

He's been listed as close to 105kg at 6'3" for the least year or so so I'd imagine that's the mind playing tricks more than anything else. If he beefed up much more he'd be as big as some second rows.

Mr Tickle

Bazzo wrote: »

He's been listed as close to 105kg at 6'3" for the least year or so so I'd imagine that's the mind playing tricks more than anything else. If he beefed up much more he'd be as big as some second rows.

Lack of depth at lock you say......

Quint2010

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Friday at 2pm I believe

Why is it that Ireland are always last to name their team? Gatland always seems to name his early in the week.

sydthebeat

Quint2010 wrote: »

Why is it that Ireland are always last to name their team? Gatland always seems to name his early in the week.

cos we try to give luke fitz every chance to be fit

Zzippy

Bazzo wrote: »

He's been listed as close to 105kg at 6'3" for the least year or so so I'd imagine that's the mind playing tricks more than anything else. If he beefed up much more he'd be as big as some second rows.

Not to mention he would have found it hard to lift weights while he was off with a broken hand...

former total

Quint2010 wrote: »

Why is it that Ireland are always last to name their team? Gatland always seems to name his early in the week.

Other countries have to release players who aren't being used back to their clubs (as we will have to do next season with Madigan and/or Moore), so that might be something to do with it? Cute hoorism a factor as well, no doubt.

The Ulster team will be named on Thursday so that might give us a couple of clues, e.g. if any of Jackson/McCloskey/Trimble are released back, then it tells us a lot about who's playing where.

Zzippy

former total wrote: »

Other countries have to release players who aren't being used back to their clubs (as we will have to do next season with Madigan and/or Moore), so that might be something to do with it? Cute hoorism a factor as well, no doubt.

What would happen if, for example, Madigan was needed as 24th man cos of a doubt over Sexton? He's not named in the squad, so would he have to be released?

former total

Zzippy wrote: »

What would happen if, for example, Madigan was needed as 24th man cos of a doubt over Sexton? He's not named in the squad, so would he have to be released?

Yes; Bordeaux would be within their rights to insist that he be released back, three or four days before the international match. Whether he could be subsequently recalled to Ireland if there was an injury, I don't know.