Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

Pink Fairy

sydthebeat wrote: »

cos we try to give luke fitz every chance to be fit

Surely it to prolong the Zebo is god debate?

aimee1

former total wrote: »

Yes; Bordeaux would be within their rights to insist that he be released back, three or four days before the international match. Whether he could be subsequently recalled to Ireland if there was an injury, I don't know.

Are you sure? Its the international window so clubs have to release players

Podge_irl

aimee1 wrote: »

Are you sure? Its the international window so clubs have to release players

Only if they're actually playing.

I'm trying to find the rules on the international window, certainly have found them before but google is yielding nothing. Anyone have a link?

Harley Uptight Light

Harley Uptight Light wrote: »

I'm trying to find the rules on the international window, certainly have found them before but google is yielding nothing. Anyone have a link?

Rule for player release during international window

The Lost Sheep

Harley Uptight Light wrote: »

I'm trying to find the rules on the international window, certainly have found them before but google is yielding nothing. Anyone have a link?

Regs are around pages 162-166...

http://www.worldrugby.org/wr-resources/World_Rugby_Handbook/EN/index.html#/162/

flangemeistro

Interesting graph here that proves Ireland are one of the least inclined to give new talent a start, and that's not just in the Schmidt era it's a contagious attitude from the top down that if it's not broken don't fix it

📉

MJohnston

flangemeistro wrote: »

Interesting graph here that proves Ireland are one of the least inclined to give new talent a start, and that's not just in the Schmidt era it's a contagious attitude from the top down that if it's not broken don't fix it

I'd upload that to imgur or something, the boards image server doesn't really seem to be working

flangemeistro

MJohnston wrote: »

I'd upload that to imgur or something, the boards image server doesn't really seem to be working

I'll try that cheers.

flangemeistro

flangemeistro wrote: »

Interesting graph here that proves Ireland are one of the least inclined to give new talent a start, and that's not just in the Schmidt era it's a contagious attitude from the top down that if it's not broken don't fix it

[img][/img]

Teferi

Teferi

Meh. Difference between New Zealand to Ireland isn't a huge swing. France and England as outliers.

sydthebeat

with france and england well on top of that chart, that tells me that over intensification of debutants is NOT the perfect pathway to success.

MJohnston

So - Ireland over 13 years have introduced an average of 7 debutants per year. But Schmidt has had 8.5 debuts per year [1], in his first two years. That'd put his average on par with New Zealand [2].

Of course, the entirety of this is rubbish, just pointing out how stats can be misleading :pac:

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ireland_national_rugby_union_players
[2] 8.5*13 = 110.5

MJohnston

Incredibly 90 of those 98 debuts for Wales were at RWC2015.

AGC

Could be mentioned earlier in thread but Fitzgerald out for the duration of 6 nations

MJohnston

MJohnston wrote: »

Incredibly 90 of those 98 debuts for Wales were at RWC2015.

lol

former total

Fitzgerald confirmed as ruled out, no surprise there so. Poor bastard has the worst luck.

Presume no-one else will be called up with plenty of cover already there.

Noopti

I would really love to see a 12/13 of McCloskey/Henshaw, with Payne at 15. A backrow of Ruddock, Heaslip and SOB, with Stander off the bench. It is a risk with a new centre partnership against Roberts and Davies, but feck it - this is going to be a really tough 6 Nations, we all know that and Schmidt knows it, so why not just go for it. I would even add Jackson in to start, he is easily the form 10 in Ireland.

I think Wales have our number, and will come out on top in the pack and they know how to neutralise our kicking game very effectively. Throw them some curveballs and force them to think a bit about this.

Probably a 10% chance of any of these happening, but I would really love to see it.

former total

former total wrote: »

Fitzgerald confirmed as ruled out, no surprise there so. Poor bastard has the worst luck.

Presume no-one else will be called up with plenty of cover already there.

Ringrose...?

Crimsonforce

matt healy deserves to be in that squad

bilston

I seem to remember in the 90s when we were rubbish the team was chopped and changed all the time. In more recent times there were a lot of changes to the team in Deccie's last year in charge and we avoided the wooden spoon on PD.

The point is a winning team is usually a consistent team. 7 new caps a year is quite a lot. Evolution rather than revolution is usually a better approach in my experience. It tends to serve you better in the long term.

Bazzo

Crimsonforce wrote: »

matt healy deserves to be in that squad

He was injured against Scarlets unfortunately.

thomond2006

MJohnston wrote: »

Incredibly 90 of those 98 debuts for Wales were at RWC2015.

I believe half the Welsh U18s got a senior cap!

Mr Tickle

Unfortunate as He's probably the best choice for the 23 jersey. This probably helps the case for including Madigan over jackson. Just has that bit more experience at 12. Then Dave Kearney/Zebo take the last slot.

*Fitzgerald that is. Forgot to quote.

MarinersBlues

Crimsonforce wrote: »

matt healy deserves to be in that squad

He got concussed on Saturday.

if there wasn't a plethora of full backs (most of whom are masquerading as centres) already there I'd love to see Tiernan O'Halloran there.
His running has been brilliant all season

Bazzo

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Unfortunate as He's probably the best choice for the 23 jersey. This probably helps the case for including Madigan over jackson. Just has that bit more experience at 12. Then Dave Kearney/Zebo take the last slot.

*Fitzgerald that is. Forgot to quote.

To be honest if Kearney keeps going as he has been* I wouldn't be surprised to see 11. Kearney 14. Trimble 23. Earls

* I have no strong feelings on Kearney one way or the other, objectively I think he's one of the form Irish wingers at the moment.

PTH2009

meant to ask a while ago but how come there is no Wolfhounds game this year ???

Mr Tickle

Bazzo wrote: »

To be honest if Kearney keeps going as he has been* I wouldn't be surprised to see 11. Kearney 14. Trimble 23. Earls

* I have no strong feelings on Kearney one way or the other, objectively I think he's one of the form Irish wingers at the moment.

Yeah you might be right. in a way it almost hurts Earls's chances of starting. If he's on the bench he provides a straight swap for more options.

molloyjh

I think had Luke been fit he had to start. Was very good against Scotland last year and then tore it up against Argentina in the RWC. He's been playing really well for Leinster this season and had been pushing McCloskey hard for that form back spot. I just can't understand why we wouldn't start him if he was fit.

errlloyd

PTH2009 wrote: »

meant to ask a while ago but how come there is no Wolfhounds game this year ???

There was no room on the calendar, the Pro12 was still going this weekend, usually it would stop and the wolfhounds would be on.

JPNelsforearm

No chance of a Gilroy sighting then?

galwaylad14

My only comment on Dave Kearney is 5 out of 9. I'm sure most of you will know what that statistic represents. That should be enough to prove the guy isn't good enough for the top level.

.ak

molloyjh wrote: »

I think had Luke been fit he had to start. Was very good against Scotland last year and then tore it up against Argentina in the RWC. He's been playing really well for Leinster this season and had been pushing McCloskey hard for that form back spot. I just can't understand why we wouldn't start him if he was fit.

Yeah, I felt he was gonna start at 11 or 12 IMO.

.ak

galwaylad14 wrote: »

My only comment on Dave Kearney is 5 out of 9. I'm sure most of you will know what that statistic represents. That should be enough to prove the guy isn't good enough for the top level.

Wow, that's a great way of summarising a players career.

Up there with Stringer's interception and Murphy's disaster against France as bizarre isolated sticks to beat players up with.

I'm sorry, just a pet peeve of mine, when people use one moment or one game to summarise a players entire career.

galwaylad14

galwaylad14 wrote: »

My only comment on Dave Kearney is 5 of 9.

He's a Borg?

Stheno

Deleted User wrote: »

He's a Borg?

No that's 7 of 9 :pac:

Stheno

Stheno wrote: »

No that's 7 of 9 :pac:

Couldn't be. She's too slow for International rugby and didn't she cost the Borg a grand slam once?

leakyboots

.ak wrote: »

Wow, that's a great way of summarising a players career.

Up there with Stringer's interception and Murphy's disaster against France as bizarre isolated sticks to beat players up with.

I'm sorry, just a pet peeve of mine, when people use one moment or one game to summarise a players entire career.

His tackling is consistently not up to standard, like his brother's.

He is in great form though... as he (supposedly) was in the run up to the World Cup. If I'm, say, advocating for Stander to start over Heaslip then it's only fair to give Dave his due and be in with a shout for starting.

I'd still have Earls and Trimble though

Stheno

Deleted User wrote: »

Couldn't be. She's too slow for International rugby and didn't she cost the Borg a grand slam once?

Worse, their plan for assimilating the universe came crashing to a halt when she defected.

Up there with missing the tackle that cost you the world cup

galwaylad14

.ak wrote: »

Wow, that's a great way of summarising a players career.

Up there with Stringer's interception and Murphy's disaster against France as bizarre isolated sticks to beat players up with.

I'm sorry, just a pet peeve of mine, when people use one moment or one game to summarise a players entire career.

Stringer threw one stinker of a pass. Murphy made a mess of one tackle. Anyone can make a mistake obviously but this wasn't one tackle he missed.

Dave Kearney, in one of Ireland's biggest ever games had 9 tackles to make and missed 5 of them. He's a professional rugby player and he missed 5 out of 9 tackles. The whole team probably shouldn't be missing 5 tackles in a world cup quarter final.

Added to that his dreadful try scoring record and I struggle to see what he adds to the team really. Could probably afford to carry a poor defender if he was a try scoring machine but 3 tries in 14 caps suggests he's not exactly Bryan Habana.

.ak

Noopti wrote: »

I would really love to see a 12/13 of McCloskey/Henshaw, with Payne at 15. A backrow of Ruddock, Heaslip and SOB, with Stander off the bench. It is a risk with a new centre partnership against Roberts and Davies, but feck it - this is going to be a really tough 6 Nations, we all know that and Schmidt knows it, so why not just go for it. I would even add Jackson in to start, he is easily the form 10 in Ireland.

I think Wales have our number, and will come out on top in the pack and they know how to neutralise our kicking game very effectively. Throw them some curveballs and force them to think a bit about this.

Probably a 10% chance of any of these happening, but I would really love to see it.

I'm so confused by this bolded part. I've seen this bandied about a few times and it makes no sense to me. 'Its a risk, but feck it'? How do people apply that logic? Do people think this is a bit of a kick about on a Sunday afternoon? Game of tip and then a few pints after? Are people forgetting what the ramifications are if we lose this game?

I'm all for mccloskey getting a cap, but against Italy, and beside an experienced centre like Payne please.

Schmidt isn't paid to go "feck it. Let's feck up our chances of getting a seeding for the next World Cup because this team looks 'inspiring/cool/exciting/x-factory/youthful/ubercool/da bomb/l337". He's paid to ensure we win our winnables. Wales are a brilliant side and playing a green midfield and 3rd choice out half against them wouldn't just be suicidal, it'd be disrespectful.

JPNelsforearm

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Stringer threw one stinker of a pass. Murphy made a mess of one tackle. Anyone can make a mistake obviously but this wasn't one tackle he missed.

Dave Kearney, in one of Ireland's biggest ever games had 9 tackles to make and missed 5 of them. He's a professional rugby player and he missed 5 out of 9 tackles. The whole team probably shouldn't be missing 5 tackles in a world cup quarter final.

Added to that his dreadful try scoring record and I struggle to see what he adds to the team really. Could probably afford to carry a poor defender if he was a try scoring machine but 3 tries in 14 caps suggests he's not exactly Bryan Habana.

But...but....he hits rucks resources rucks and works really really hard...

Bad defender and doesnt score tries, you can be one if you are the opposite of the other, but to be both is criminal. This craic of having slow wingers who dont score tries was found out at the WC.

former total

.ak wrote: »

Wow, that's a great way of summarising a players career.

Up there with Stringer's interception and Murphy's disaster against France as bizarre isolated sticks to beat players up with.

I'm sorry, just a pet peeve of mine, when people use one moment or one game to summarise a players entire career.

No need to apologise, you're absolutely right.

I honestly don't mind which two of Trimble, Earls and Dave K play against Wales (I think Zebo is a bit back and won't be picked), but I really hope Dave K is picked purely to see the reaction of punters here.

And then he'll go out and have his usual great game and no-one will give him any credit for it and we'll have the identical discussion the following week. Yaaay.

.ak

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Stringer threw one stinker of a pass. Murphy made a mess of one tackle. Anyone can make a mistake obviously but this wasn't one tackle he missed.

Dave Kearney, in one of Ireland's biggest ever games had 9 tackles to make and missed 5 of them. He's a professional rugby player and he missed 5 out of 9 tackles. The whole team probably shouldn't be missing 5 tackles in a world cup quarter final.

Added to that his dreadful try scoring record and I struggle to see what he adds to the team really. Could probably afford to carry a poor defender if he was a try scoring machine but 3 tries in 14 caps suggests he's not exactly Bryan Habana.

Aside from that one game can point out any other examples of DK being a poor defender?

I think people need to get over that game. If you want to use it as a yard stick to beat people with then there's 15 lads who should never wear green again.

Bazzo

Is Dave Kearney a poor defender? I'd have pegged it as a strength of his to be honest. One game aside I fairly frequently see him either putting in big hits or pushing attacking players into touch.

I'm happy to be corrected if somebody can pull some stats that prove it but anecdotally I don't recall him being pegged as a poor defender any time outside the Argentina game.

Podge_irl

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Dave Kearney, in one of Ireland's biggest ever games had 9 tackles to make and missed 5 of them. He's a professional rugby player and he missed 5 out of 9 tackles. The whole team probably shouldn't be missing 5 tackles in a world cup quarter final.

Context is pretty important and while he most certainly did not have a good game, plenty of those tackles were in acres of space. They were not easy tackles to make.

irishbucsfan

leakyboots wrote: »

His tackling is consistently not up to standard, like his brother's.

False

.ak

Bazzo wrote: »

Is Dave Kearney a poor defender? I'd have pegged it as a strength of his to be honest. One game aside I fairly frequently see him either putting in big hits or pushing attacking players into touch.

I'm happy to be corrected if somebody can pull some stats that prove it but anecdotally I don't recall him being pegged as a poor defender any time outside the Argentina game.

I think he just suffers from Kearney confirmation bias. It's his own fault for not changing his name when he was born. Bit of a slow one is our Dave.