Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

penybont exile

molloyjh wrote: »

While the Biggar-Sexton debate is a good one, in the sense that Biggar is better than Sexton right now but is his ceiling higher making the debate a "valid" one I think Cuthbert had been an utter liability fairly consistently for a while. Dave may not be a stellar international winger but for me he's ahead of Cuthbert at the moment. I can't remember the last time I was actually impressed by Cuthbert. There was a time a few years ago I thought he was delivering more consistently than North, but for the last 2 years he hasn't been great.

TBH Cuthbert has been a bit ropey of late but he does have a capability that is beyond Kearney IMO. Hence my comment.

I'm not convinced Kearney offers a try scoring threat at international level ..... Cuthbert has in the past and might well do so in the future - hopefully starting on Sunday selection permitting. It's a confidence thing with him I think .... he's an average rugby player but when confident is capable of scoring tries. Gatland knows this hence his continued involvement.

Zebo would be the closest comparison in the Irish set up ...... much lamented but far more of a try scoring threat than DK.

Teferi

Pink Fairy wrote: »

Saw an interview with SOB earlier saying how Stander was very vocal since coming I'm and a bit of a leader too.
I know I'm going against the Ruddock love in here, but to my mind, any Irish side with Stander included has a much better chance of winning against Wales. To my mind, he's just too good to leave out.

I'd be delighted to see Stander start myself, chap deserves it and I love how he has bought into Ireland and Munster.

penybont exile

swiwi_ wrote: »

I thought cuthbert was quite good around 2013. I thought he was pure gash in 2015. Wales don't need him anyway they have better options.

Hallam Amos has a lot of potential ..... this weekend might come too early for him though. Recently returned from injury.

Tom James seems to have improved a lot .... and is deceptively quick.

Liam Williams ... I like @15 though it would be a big call to phase 1/2p out.


.... to name but three.

I suspect Wazza will go for North & Cuthbert for Sunday.

penybont exile

This game is all about the forwards & field position in any case.

Hopefully it will be a dry day ..... & not too windy [not an easy ask for D4 in February]

Wales have won games recently with a poor set piece .... if we get this functioning on Sunday I'm pretty confident we'll prevail.

I'd say Wales will target Toner who really has to step up without POC. If we can do that it might put pressure on Best and the Irish line-out.

swiwi_

I'm probably being awfully unfair on cuthbert but he reminds me of Forrest Gump, give him the ball and tell him to run. Doesn't help my impression that he looks like the sort of fella you'd see wearing adidas trackpads heading on the red Luas out to tallaght.

.ak

Teferi wrote: »

I'd be delighted to see Stander start myself, chap deserves it and I love how he has bought into Ireland and Munster.

I'd be happy to see him there too, but I don't see it. Ruddock will have a bit more experience and will edge it. I can see stander making the 23 tho, and possible over taking Ruddock at the end of the tournament.

molloyjh

swiwi_ wrote: »

I thought cuthbert was quite good around 2013. I thought he was pure gash in 2015. Wales don't need him anyway they have better options.

Up to the Lions tour in 2013 he was very good. But there were rumours of him not being happy with the way Gats wants them playing and his form on that tour wasn't great. He never recovered it after that. As PE said he could again, but after nearly 3 years I wouldn't be holding my breath personally.

At least Dave has shown good form lately even if his ceiling isn't as high (just like the Biggar-Sexton debate really with the nationalities reversed). Regarding the try scoring element, even when Joe was with Leinster our tries didn't come from the wings that often. As long as we're winning games through more than just sheer luck I'm not sure I care that much how many tries our wingers are scoring. It'd be nice if we were playing gorgeous rugby week in, week out but winning week in, week out is nicer. Obviously the 2 combined is nicest!

Rightwing

penybont exile wrote: »

This game is all about the forwards & field position in any case.

Hopefully it will be a dry day ..... & not too windy [not an easy ask for D4 in February]

Wales have won games recently with a poor set piece .... if we get this functioning on Sunday I'm pretty confident we'll prevail.

I'd say Wales will target Toner who really has to step up without POC. If we can do that it might put pressure on Best and the Irish line-out.

That's a big worry, no question about it.

CMOTDibbler

There is some amount of crap being spouted on this thread lately. So many guys here who are way better selectors, coaches and technicians of the game than Joe Schmidt.

Maybe they are. But it begs the question as to how they're on an internet forum and not coaching New Zealand or whatever. :rolleyes:

MJohnston

molloyjh wrote: »

What worries me most about this incessant debate about the midfield and full back slots and our apparently dire need to play a wildly different game plan is that it is ignoring the massive issue you've pointed out. Our tight 5. Why are we not all talking about that? The backs won't matter a damn if we don't have a platform. And we've lost a lot of guys that we know can provide that to replace them with guys who we hope can.

Ah here now, you're making it sound like all this chatter is actually influential - the squad isn't going to collapse because someone didn't spend a week on a message board debating the merits of our tight five combos

How does Wales adjust their strategy to target Toner with POC missing?

Teferi

Deleted User wrote: »

How does Wales adjust their strategy to target Toner with POC missing?

Overwhelm him with pashun.

molloyjh

MJohnston wrote: »

Ah here now, you're making it sound like all this chatter is actually influential - the squad isn't going to collapse because someone didn't spend a week on a message board debating the merits of our tight five combos

How do you know MJ? HOW DO YOU KNOW!? :pac:

irishbucsfan

I think we might see Stander on the bench, but I wouldn't be hugely surprised if we saw him start at 8 against Italy.

He looks like the long-term answer at the position to me, Heaslip is entering his mid thirties. Would be a good way to inject some new thinking/perspective into the unit as well.

We have a really great group of back row forwards now. Fully fit we're selecting between SOB/Heaslip/Stander/POM/Ruddock. All of them have captained their provinces, all of them have stood out at international level (bar Stander, but I have no doubt he also can). All of them will likely be part of the leadership group. We're absolutely spoiled. Amazingly the next person down the list for depth is probably Chris Henry, another captain!

irishbucsfan

I think we might see Stander on the bench, but I wouldn't be hugely surprised if we saw him start at 8 against Italy.

He looks like the long-term answer at the position to me, Heaslip is entering his mid thirties. Would be a good way to inject some new thinking/perspective into the unit as well.

We have a really great group of back row forwards now. Fully fit we're selecting between SOB/Heaslip/Stander/POM/Ruddock. All of them have captained their provinces, all of them have stood out at international level (bar Stander, but I have no doubt he also can). All of them will likely be part of the leadership group. We're absolutely spoiled. Amazingly the next person down the list for depth is probably Chris Henry, another captain!

Shefwedfan

Just wondering is there a Wolfhounds v Saxons match this year? don't see anything on fixtures

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Just wondering is there a Wolfhounds v Saxons match this year? don't see anything on fixtures

Nope, cancelled this year because of the various game postponements and world cup.

Mr Tickle

Forgive my ignorance but am i right in thinking that Ruddock plays at lock sometimes?
Is this a usual thing or a kind of "in case of emergency" situation?

Just wondering if it would be worth exploring converting him the way henderson was. Even just on a temporary basis. He's a big powerful fella and we could use the carrying. I also allows for both himself and stander to be involved. particularly if POM/Henry/ TOD are around.

Mr Tickle

Forgive my ignorance but am i right in thinking that Ruddock plays at lock sometimes?
Is this a usual thing or a kind of "in case of emergency" situation?

Just wondering if it would be worth exploring converting him the way henderson was. Even just on a temporary basis. He's a big powerful fella and we could use the carrying. I also allows for both himself and stander to be involved. particularly if POM/Henry/ TOD are around.

Mr Tickle

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance but am i right in thinking that Ruddock plays at lock sometimes?
Is this a usual thing or a kind of "in case of emergency" situation?

Just wondering if it would be worth exploring converting him the way henderson was. Even just on a temporary basis. He's a big powerful fella and we could use the carrying. I also allows for both himself and stander to be involved. particularly if POM/Henry/ TOD are around.

He has some underage experience there as far as I know, and has filled in there for Leinster a couple of times.

He has played the vast majority of his senior rugby at back row however.

I don't know what the future plans are with Ruddock and what position he will end up playing, but If I was betting right now I'd say backrow and more specifically blindside.

The Lost Sheep

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Just wondering is there a Wolfhounds v Saxons match this year? don't see anything on fixtures

There isn't a game as not enough room in the schedule because of the world cup

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance but am i right in thinking that Ruddock plays at lock sometimes?
Is this a usual thing or a kind of "in case of emergency" situation?

Just wondering if it would be worth exploring converting him the way henderson was. Even just on a temporary basis. He's a big powerful fella and we could use the carrying. I also allows for both himself and stander to be involved. particularly if POM/Henry/ TOD are around.

It isn't a usual thing and is a "in case of emergency".
Henderson is very different and his natural position most likely is second row.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Welsh team named.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

double

MJohnston

Glum looking bunch

Rightwing

Good strong team there. Can see them win this match and indeed the championship.

former total

I dunno lads, everything about Anscombe screams "average" to me, I'd have picked Matt Morgan. I suppose he's just keeping Liam Williams' jersey warm.

I'm surprised Tom James gets in, wouldn't be my choice but he is big and strong and Gatland likes a beefy winger.

Good to see Tipuric get a start too.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Ringrose has been called into the training camp although he is not believed to be a permanent replacement for Fitzgerald. Good for him to get that experience around the team anyway.

MJohnston

former total wrote: »

I dunno lads, everything about Anscombe screams "average" to me

You mean aside from his uncanny resemblance to Matt Damon, of course.

b.gud

MJohnston wrote: »

You mean aside from his uncanny resemblance to Matt Damon, of course.

Wow I never noticed that til you said it. Now every time he gets the ball I will think of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QApeYpw7KQQ

Bridge93

Who are Wales missing?

Webb
Halfpenny
Williams
Amos
S Williams

Anyone else?

Lengthy injury lists on both sides although Ireland at the bare bones in some spots

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Bridge93 wrote: »

Who are Wales missing?

Webb
Halfpenny
Williams
Amos
S Williams

Anyone else?

Lengthy injury lists on both sides although Ireland at the bare bones in some spots

Amos is fit again, has played twice for Dragons this month. Maybe not international match fit and probably not first choice anyway but he's available.

leakyboots

That Welsh backrow will cause mayhem on the deck, very curious to see our selection

Scythica

I would say having Warb and Tip would help Standers chances of starting? He's better on the deck than Ruddock right?

thomond2006

Yo Gatty, I think Priestland and Cuthbert deserve at least 79 minutes off the bench.

Good Welsh team but not unbeatable. There are areas where we can target them.

The battle up front is going to be ferocious. The lads really need to be on their game from the get go as I expect Wales to absolutely charge out of the blocks.

Not much between either side. For me it comes down to Sexton starting or not. Little bird tells me Jackson has been in the hot seat in preparation for Sunday.

CMOTDibbler

MJohnston wrote: »

You mean aside from his uncanny resemblance to Matt Damon, of course.

Nope, Garry Ringrose already has that one

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Matt Damon



Garry Ringrose

Mr Tickle

Scythica wrote: »

I would say having Warb and Tip would help Standers chances of starting? He's better on the deck than Ruddock right?

You would think so.
Also being able to bring on ruddock for extra carrying later in the game could be useful.

Scythica

Scythica wrote: »

I would say having Warb and Tip would help Standers chances of starting? He's better on the deck than Ruddock right?

Backrow needs to be balanced. Heaslip and O'Brien excel at the breakdown. If we wanted a second openside we'd go Tommy or Henry.

We really need our blindside to give us some go forward and potentially an extra line out option so Ruddock for me albeit Stander is the better carrier.

That said, I have no issue if Stander comes in at 6, but I think he offers better cover from the bench. Having him, Cronin, Furlong come on with 20 to go is nice impact if were struggling to close out the game.

leakyboots

Deleted User wrote: »

Backrow needs to be balanced. Heaslip and O'Brien excel at the breakdown. If we wanted a second openside we'd go Tommy or Henry.

We really need our blindside to give us some go forward and potentially an extra line out option so Ruddock for me albeit Stander is the better carrier.

That said, I have no issue if Stander comes in at 6, but I think he offers better cover from the bench. Having him, Cronin, Furlong come on with 20 to go is nice impact if were struggling to close out the game.

Has Stander not been one of the best in the Pro12 on the deck this season? And carrying?

I'd target breakdown over lineout superiority to be honest. Be it CJ and/or Henry starting. I'd go for Henry over TOD in that department too

Scythica

Must admit I forgot TOD and Henry were in camp. Henry could be a great shout, but even as an Ulster fan Stander seems to have single handedly kept Munster in the games. Not sure any of them are lineout options bar Ruddock.

I think that Ruddock or Henry could be a great counter for Lydiate coming on, but really its all a much of a muchness with pro's cons either way.

Scythica

Must admit I forgot TOD and Henry were in camp. Henry could be a great shout, but even as an Ulster fan Stander seems to have single handedly kept Munster in the games. Not sure any of them are lineout options bar Ruddock.

I think that Ruddock or Henry could be a great counter for Lydiate coming on, but really its all a much of a muchness with pro's cons either way.

galwaylad14

Deleted User wrote: »

Backrow needs to be balanced. Heaslip and O'Brien excel at the breakdown. If we wanted a second openside we'd go Tommy or Henry.

We really need our blindside to give us some go forward and potentially an extra line out option so Ruddock for me albeit Stander is the better carrier.

That said, I have no issue if Stander comes in at 6, but I think he offers better cover from the bench. Having him, Cronin, Furlong come on with 20 to go is nice impact if were struggling to close out the game.

It's a ridiculous theory to say Ruddock should start because Stander "covers more from the bench". You are aware that if Stander starts and Ruddock is on the bench they can still cover just as many positions? It would just be a matter of swapping someone to another position.

For example, if we start with Stander, O'Brien and Heaslip and Heaslip gets injured we can put Ruddock on and swap him with Stander.

Likewise if we start Ruddock, O'Brien and Heaslip and Heaslip gets injured then Stander just goes straight in there. But we still end up with the same back row either way and the same positions are covered.

The cover arugment for the bench would only make sense if we were deciding between say Jackson or Madigan for the bench spot behind Sexton. But if Sexton was injured it wouldn't make sense to start Jackson and ahead of Madigan solely because Madigan covers more positions off the bench.

andymx11

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Good Welsh team but not unbeatable. There are areas where we can target them.

The battle up front is going to be ferocious. The lads really need to be on their game from the get go as I expect Wales to absolutely charge out of the blocks.

Not much between either side. For me it comes down to Sexton starting or not. Little bird tells me Jackson has been in the hot seat in preparation for Sunday.

Would this little birdie be reliable like a Robin Red Breast or a more of a Crow type character?

thomond2006

The sooner Jackson starts in big games the better. I hate writing this but I don't see Sexton seeing out his four year deal. The knocks are piling up...

leakyboots

leakyboots wrote: »

Has Stander not been one of the best in the Pro12 on the deck this season? And carrying?

I'd target breakdown over lineout superiority to be honest. Be it CJ and/or Henry starting. I'd go for Henry over TOD in that department too

I don't think our backrow is balanced with TOD or Henry if SOB and Heaslip are there.

Stander is fine on the deck, but it's the lack of TOD and O'Mahony all season that has seen him have to get stuck in on the ground more than he probably would otherwise.

His main asset is work rate, tackles loads, carries really well. But he isn't what you would call a breakdown specialist. Neither is Ruddock.

We just want a powerful mobile six who can do the ruck work and make good hard tackles of their first phase ball to slow momentum. After that we want someone who will make hard yards in contact and has enough of an engine to get around in support and link up open play.

Ruddock and Stander are both capable of this.

former total

Scythica wrote: »

Must admit I forgot TOD and Henry were in camp. Henry could be a great shout, but even as an Ulster fan Stander seems to have single handedly kept Munster in the games. Not sure any of them are lineout options bar Ruddock.

I think that Ruddock or Henry could be a great counter for Lydiate coming on, but really its all a much of a muchness with pro's cons either way.

Henry isn't in the squad, he's injured. Options are O'Donnell and van der Flier, and I can't see either of them getting in, it's just a question of which of Stander and Ruddock starts and which benches.

thomond2006

Mods, are we doing a write up sticky for the Six Nations again?

Mr Tickle

Scythica wrote: »

Must admit I forgot TOD and Henry were in camp. Henry could be a great shout, but even as an Ulster fan Stander seems to have single handedly kept Munster in the games. Not sure any of them are lineout options bar Ruddock.

I think that Ruddock or Henry could be a great counter for Lydiate coming on, but really its all a much of a muchness with pro's cons either way.

I think Henry is injured for the moment. I believe he was ruled out for the first game anyway. After that i think he was expected back.

andymx11

andymx11 wrote: »

Would this little birdie be reliable like a Robin Red Breast or a more of a Crow type character?

Always reliable on Leinster but more second hand information for Ireland.

galwaylad14 wrote: »

It's a ridiculous theory to say Ruddock should start because Stander "covers more from the bench". You are aware that if Stander starts and Ruddock is on the bench they can still cover just as many positions? It would just be a matter of swapping someone to another position.

For example, if we start with Stander, O'Brien and Heaslip and Heaslip gets injured we can put Ruddock on and swap him with Stander.

Likewise if we start Ruddock, O'Brien and Heaslip and Heaslip gets injured then Stander just goes straight in there. But we still end up with the same back row either way and the same positions are covered.

The cover arugment for the bench would only make sense if we were deciding between say Jackson or Madigan for the bench spot behind Sexton. But if Sexton was injured it wouldn't make sense to start Jackson and ahead of Madigan solely because Madigan covers more positions off the bench.

I think Ruddock balances our backrow better, for a variety of reasons. So providing cover is not the only reason. But let's focus on that considering it's "a ridiculous theory".

Substitutions are made on the basis of a number of factors such as balance across who is on the pitch, fatigue, current score and positional attrition amongst many others.

Having a player with clear versatility at 6 and 8 is an advantage. It allows for more options to be considered and factors assessed in terms of who to replace.

It also means that in training that person can get more familiar with their roles regardless of whether they start or bench.

Now, Ruddock may end up being seen as better bench cover if he is being viewed as a backup lock. This could also make sense, certainly not "ridiculous".

If Stander is the better player and better option at six, then of course he will start. Depends on what Joe thinks ultimately.