Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

molloyjh

Harley Uptight Light wrote: »

It's also worth mentioning he can't have been much older than 19 and the Ireland squad was missing something like 35 players.

Tbh I can't remember how good or bad he was but I'm sure the forum narrative will be that he was poor, because that's what suits.

What if he actually was poor? I can't remember myself but that's a very handy out you've given yourself there.

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

What if he actually was poor? I can't remember myself but that's a very handy out you've given yourself there.

Maybe he was - it's completely irrelevant for other reasons I've given above. He was about 4 years younger then than McCloskey is now. He'd played far less high level rugby. It was a shadow of a shadow Ireland side.

The much handier out is declaring him poor and then using it as a reason to not start McCloskey.

Podge_irl

Harley Uptight Light wrote: »

I don't think you remember his first cap actually. It was on that Canada and USA tour. He played for about 10 mins against Aus in 2013 when we got hammered, and then his first real start came in the 6N.

His first "real" start came in the absolute hammering of South Africa.

Jared Payne has played two games since September, neither of them at centre. Seems slightly relevant to the discussion no?

Podge_irl

molloyjh wrote: »

Exactly who has said that McCloskey shouldn't start?
And boiling the responses down to "unknown" is just wrong. The reasons people have put forward for starting Henshaw is down to things like greater familiarity with the people he'll be playing alongside, the way the team will be playing and yes the fact that he is a proven performer at this level. All these things factor into the decisions made by coaches. And rightly so. Only loons ignore them.

.ak. And that basically was his reasoning.

Podge_irl

Podge_irl wrote: »

His first "real" start came in the absolute hammering of South Africa.

Jared Payne has played two games since September, neither of them at centre. Seems slightly relevant to the discussion no?

Yep you're right, I had it arseways. Mixed up the years the two Aus games happened on, the one we got thrashed and the one we beat them.

He did play for 10ish mins in the one we got thrashed in but then his next two starts were against Aus and SA in the AIs 12 months on, then he went into the 6N side.

But he still got thrown into a hugely physical game against SA and I certainly don't think he was poor in that one.

And yeah I certainly think the fact Payne hasn't played centre in months is relevant but he has experience.

Yeah_Right

I thought it was established by Kiss and Payne himself that he was playing 10. Did I misread something?

Podge_irl

Harley Uptight Light wrote: »

But he still got thrown into a hugely physical game against SA and I certainly don't think he was poor in that one.

I don't have a particularly great memory of the game, but its a rubbish example to use to suggest starting McCloskey is a bad idea.

former total

Podge_irl wrote: »

His first "real" start came in the absolute hammering of South Africa.

Jared Payne has played two games since September, neither of them at centre. Seems slightly relevant to the discussion no?

One of those games was a training-ground run-out against a team who'd have been hammered by the Ballymena under 7s Leprechaun side. And not even the good kids, the crap ones who come on halfway through cos everyone has to get a game? Yeah, they'd have hammered Oyonnax that day.

And the other was a game in which Ulster got hammered, conceding a try bonus point (to an excellent team, in fairness). Payne wasn't bad, but he didn't light the place on fire either.

I don't think any of that is enough to change Joe's mind on where Payne fits in. I'll be shocked if he's not named at 13 tomorrow. Absolutely shocked.

Podge_irl

former total wrote: »

I don't think any of that is enough to change Joe's mind on where Payne fits in. I'll be shocked if he's not named at 13 tomorrow. Absolutely shocked.

I don't think so either and I would be similarly surprised.

As far as I'm concerned (and no one in position of authority cares about my concerns) the above makes Payne just as much of a risk as McCloskey though.

Podge_irl

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't have a particularly great memory of the game, but its a rubbish example to use to suggest starting McCloskey is a bad idea.

I wouldn't be able to give an analysis of any particular player tbh but I remember us being in complete control of the match, they scored a consolation try which took a bit of gloss off the scoreline.

But imagine we threw him in against a team that aren't as good as SA. Just imagine.

Buer

Harley Uptight Light wrote: »

Tbh I can't remember how good or bad he was but I'm sure the forum narrative will be that he was poor, because that's what suits.

Feel free to check back on the match thread. He had a pretty torrid debut.

Phog: "felt for Henshaw, didn't have the best of games"

Vienne86: "Henshaw had a nightmare"

LostyDublin: "Henshaw had a good start but he did lose his way"

Ciaran Boyle: "Will always remember Henshaw spending 30 seconds lying on the ground hitting himself after failing to take a pass."

Leslie91: "For me most noticeable thing was how poor a game Henshaw had"

Buer

Buer wrote: »

Feel free to check back on the match thread. He had a pretty torrid debut.

Phog: "felt for Henshaw, didn't have the best of games"

Vienne86: "Henshaw had a nightmare"

LostyDublin: "Henshaw had a good start but he did lose his way"

Ciaran Boyle: "Will always remember Henshaw spending 30 seconds lying on the ground hitting himself after failing to take a pass."

Leslie91: "For me most noticeable thing was how poor a game Henshaw had"

Ok, fair enough. Seems like he was poor.

I still don't feel like it has any relevance as to whether McCloskey should start or not.

Podge_irl

Buer wrote: »

Feel free to check back on the match thread. He had a pretty torrid debut.

Phog: "felt for Henshaw, didn't have the best of games"

Vienne86: "Henshaw had a nightmare"

LostyDublin: "Henshaw had a good start but he did lose his way"

Ciaran Boyle: "Will always remember Henshaw spending 30 seconds lying on the ground hitting himself after failing to take a pass."

Leslie91: "For me most noticeable thing was how poor a game Henshaw had"

This was the Canada/USA tour game?

CMOTDibbler

Harley Uptight Light wrote: »

Ok, fair enough. Seems like he was poor.

I still don't feel like it has any relevance as to whether McCloskey should start or not.

It's relevant to the idea that; should he start, he'll be the second coming of BOD.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Not sure if you realise this but our match against Wales is on Sunday...

Do you know what day of the week it is?

Podge_irl

Podge_irl wrote: »

This was the Canada/USA tour game?

Yeah.

CMOTDibbler

Leandro Round Billboard wrote: »

Do you know what day of the week it is?

Yes.

Zzippy

Billysays no wrote: »

I suggest that McCloskey is better and that Robbie is limited but was favoured for some reason that my brain still struggles with. Must be a brain issue :-)

You may be on to something here... :P

Podge_irl

Harley Uptight Light wrote: »

Yeah.

Fair enough. I would consider those games wildly irrelevant to anything personally.

awec

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

It's relevant to the idea that; should he start, he'll be the second coming of BOD.

Now you're just making things up. Who has likened him to BOD?

awec

awec wrote: »

Now you're just making things up. Who has likened him to BOD?

Exactly, that's Garry Ringrose

CMOTDibbler

awec wrote: »

Now you're just making things up. Who has likened him to BOD?

I would have thought that a bit of poetic license, even slight exaggeration was allowed in a thread that lurches from the outright bizarre to the merely outrageous. :P

But since you ask:

Billysays no wrote: »

We should start McCloskey. Otherwise no faith. Screw the idea of ever giving bod that chance. There has to be a leap of faith. Bod got it. Of all the players I have witnessed (from mike Gibson, Colin Patterson, Willie duggan Fergus Slattery etc...) McCloskey is it. So Joe do it. Cut this crap team selection and see the new bod!!!!

Apology accepted :pac:

Principal Skinner

Zebo, Earls, Payne, Henshaw, Trimble, Sexton, Murray, McGrath, Best, White, Toner, McCarthy, Stander, O'Donnell, Heaslip.

Very conservative team....
Welsh will have a field day with earls and Zebo defence

Mr Tickle

Principal Skinner wrote: »

Zebo, Earls, Payne, Henshaw, Trimble, Sexton, Murray, McGrath, Best, White, Toner, McCarthy, Stander, O'Donnell, Heaslip.

Very conservative team....
Welsh will have a field day with earls and Zebo defence

That's what i fear. If the choice before was close between rob kearney and McCloskey you'd have to think you'd include McCloskey at 12 over zebo at 15.

Principal Skinner

Principal Skinner wrote: »

Zebo, Earls, Payne, Henshaw, Trimble, Sexton, Murray, McGrath, Best, White, Toner, McCarthy, Stander, O'Donnell, Heaslip.

Very conservative team....
Welsh will have a field day with earls and Zebo defence

You know this is the team?

sydthebeat

Principal Skinner wrote: »

Zebo, Earls, Payne, Henshaw, Trimble, Sexton, Murray, McGrath, Best, White, Toner, McCarthy, Stander, O'Donnell, Heaslip.

Very conservative team....
Welsh will have a field day with earls and Zebo defence

if thats the team this place will go mental

if RK doesnt play, for whatever reason, then 12 SMCC 13 Henshaw 15 Payne
looks, in my opinion, to be a much stronger line up than 12 Henshaw 13 Payne 15 Zebo

awec

sydthebeat wrote: »

if thats the team this place will go mental

if RK doesnt play, for whatever reason, then 12 SMCC 13 Henshaw 15 Payne
looks, in my opinion, to be a much stronger line up than 12 Henshaw 13 Payne 15 Zebo

I would agree that particular selection is a bit nonsensical.

However, look at the state of that pack. No Henderson, no SOB, no chance.

errlloyd

That team is anything but conservative, that team is bloody stupid. List of players who weren't first choice in those positions during the WC.

sydthebeat

awec wrote: »

I would agree that particular selection is a bit nonsensical.

However, look at the state of that pack. No Henderson, no SOB, no chance.

completely agree

i notice ireland have lost a handicap point on PP, maybe they know something

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

completely agree

i notice ireland have lost a handicap point on PP, maybe they know something

Well SOB and Kearney have both gone for scans have they not?

Or has that been reported at all?

irishbucsfan

errlloyd wrote: »

That team is anything but conservative, that team is bloody stupid. List of players who weren't first choice in those positions during the WC.

Who wasn't first choice? Anyone who wasn't first choice is out injured, only exception would be Earls

former total

Am I losing my marbles? Are people calling a team featuring Simon "X-factor" Zebo at full back conservative?

sydthebeat

former total wrote: »

Am I losing my marbles? Are people is one person calling a team featuring Simon "X-factor" Zebo at full back conservative?

to be fair .....

Mr Tickle

former total wrote: »

Am I losing my marbles? Are people calling a team featuring Simon "X-factor" Zebo at full back conservative?

It's a strange kind of thursday

Z-Factor surely?

MJohnston

Boy, this thread makes me glad for the one hour Boards.ie downtime today

Principal Skinner

Harley Uptight Light wrote: »

You know this is the team?

That's the team, both Kearney and SOB out

The world has turned on its head, no Leinster players in the outside backs and no (native) Munster players in the pack.

andymx11

Principal Skinner wrote: »

That's the team, both Kearney and SOB out

Hmm think I'll wait. Have you been privy to inside information in the past? Looking through your post history nothing jumps out.

Harley Uptight Light

Harley Uptight Light wrote: »

The world has turned on its head, no Leinster players in the outside backs and no (native) Munster players in the pack.

O'Donnell

awec

I wanted Zebo to get a go at full back after the world cup, but since then we have had real options emerge in the centre which really should allow us to experiment by playing some of our other actual full backs at full back.

My point is, surely McCloskey, Henshaw/Payne, Henshaw/Payne makes way more sense than what is being rumoured? Of course this means re-jigging the team at a late stage, but seems much more sensible to me.

If the rumoured team is the actual team then I am quite nervous, this could really be a heavy defeat on Sunday.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

O'Donnell

Well that's embarrassing. Hadn't quite processed SOB being out

CMOTDibbler

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Who wasn't first choice? Anyone who wasn't first choice is out injured, only exception would be Earls

FYP

I think :pac:

Zebo starting while leaving out McCloskey, just can't get on board with that. I don't think it's stronger than McCloskey being in the team and Payne moving to fullback. There's a decision to be made if Kearney was fit but Zebo just shouldn't be there imo.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

One of the points raised against McCloskey starting was, barring injury, who gets left out? IF Kearney has been ruled out that question is removed and starting McCloskey makes a lot of sense?

Easterby was quoted yesterday saying McCloskey would be well able to stand up to the big Welsh players and was well suited to combating "Warrenball". I don't know the specifics of what he was asked but I did wonder why he was talking about McCloskey specifically when initially most people thought he'd be lucky to even feature on the bench.

Clegg

Simon Zebo.

Jesus wept.

former total

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

double post

When you go into "edit post", it gives you the option to delete as well...

AdamD

If that is the team I'm guessing its because Kearney has been ruled out late so they want to keep the rest of the backline the same as have been training all week so have gone for straight Zebo for Kearney swap. Looks a very weak team though.

CMOTDibbler

Harley Uptight Light wrote: »

Zebo starting while leaving out McCloskey, just can't get on board with that. I don't think it's stronger than McCloskey being in the team and Payne moving to fullback. There's a decision to be made if Kearney was fit but Zebo just shouldn't be there imo.

If you didn't want to break up the midfield partnership it would make sense. Zebo has probably the most experience at playing full back of any of the other options this season and that experience includes international experience from the RWC.

former total

The other question is; if Kearney is out injured and Zebo isn't picked, then why was Zebo in the squad to begin with?