Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

WeleaseWoderick

You'd assume there is no worry about Sexton whatsoever with Jackson being released. Not the call I'd have made but at least they seem to confident about Sexton.

Interestingly enough, Luke Marshall wasn't released to Ulster so might be in contention.

awec

MJohnston wrote: »

I've always thought if Sexton was injured, Jackson would start, if not Madigan would bench. It's that oul flexibility argument striking again.

Depends who is #23.

If our bench is Madigan and Marshall then this is just really a daft selection.

WeleaseWoderick

You'd assume there is no worry about Sexton whatsoever with Jackson being released. Not the call I'd have made but at least they seem to confident about Sexton.

Interestingly enough, Luke Marshall wasn't released to Ulster so might be in contention.

CMOTDibbler

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Farcical yet comprehensively unsurprising selection from Joe tbh.

So every selection Joe has ever made has been 'farcical'?

former total

MJohnston wrote: »

I've always thought if Sexton was injured, Jackson would start, if not Madigan would bench. It's that oul flexibility argument striking again.

That's what everyone thought during the World Cup too. And Jackson didn't even get near it.

Personally, I don't care which of them plays, there isn't much of a gap either way.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

former total wrote: »

It's now two years since Jackson was last ahead of Madigan in the pecking order.

People can't seriously claim that this was unexpected.

Jackson was injured for last year's 6 Nations, so you can't really say it's been 2 years when he wasn't available a year ago.

ClanofLams

Don't think I have ever criticised Schmidt. For all the flak he took after the WC, any team with the playing resources of Ireland that loses their captain/pack leader, two flankers, 10 and defensive lynchpin at 13 was all gonna struggle imo.

But Madigan over Jackson makes zero sense that I can figure out anyway. Guess this indicates we'll probably see Reddan on the bench too....

CMOTDibbler

awec wrote: »

Depends who is #23.

If our bench is Madigan and Marshall then this is just really a daft selection.

I don't think there's room in the 23 for every player who hasn't been released back to their provinces.

aimee1

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Farcical yet comprehensively unsurprising selection from Joe tbh.

As a matter of interest what do you think the XV and Bench should be.

former total

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Jackson was injured for last year's 6 Nations, so you can't really say it's been 2 years when he wasn't available a year ago.

Yup. But he was behind Madigan and Keatley for the preceding Autumn internationals so the omens might not have been great.

I'm not sticking the boot in on Jackson, just asking posters to maybe take a step back and think about what we've consistently seen in selection.

CMOTDibbler

ClanofLams wrote: »

But Madigan over Jackson makes zero sense that I can figure out anyway. Guess this indicates we'll probably see Reddan on the bench too....

Not wanting to upset you or anything, but there is sense to be made of it if you want.

Like Madigan covers more positions than Jackson. Or Madigan kicks better than Jackson.

awec

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I don't think there's room in the 23 for every player who hasn't been released back to their provinces.

What?

MJohnston

It's weird to me that Jackson is benching for Ulster - is this usual for released players?

aimee1

MJohnston wrote: »

It's weird to me that Jackson is benching for Ulster - is this usual for released players?

Yes happened last season too with few players

awec

awec wrote: »

What?

There will be more than 23 players kept available to Ireland.

ie: Some players not released, still won't be involved with Ireland on Sunday.

Noopti

Tough on Jackson. I always trust in the coaches decision as they have so much more data that we have regarding players, form, training, strategy, tactics, injuries etc. We only base our ideas and opinions on really high level information from watching games and the media basically.

It is obviously a decision made around our plan for the game, and who suits it best of course. However, I would not be surprised to see Sexton go off much earlier than expected and in such a situation I would much rather have the form 10 in the country come on. Madigan can "do a job" - but nothing recently leads me to believe he can do a better job than Jackson.

Madigan does cover more positions, but I think there are other selections that can be made around that to ensure we have our best 10 available on the bench.

Anyway, whatever the actual team I can't wait for the weekend!

CMOTDibbler

awec wrote: »

What?

Did you not take your cue for Marshall being on the bench from this?

WeleaseWoderick wrote: »

You'd assume there is no worry about Sexton whatsoever with Jackson being released. Not the call I'd have made but at least they seem to confident about Sexton.

Interestingly enough, Luke Marshall wasn't released to Ulster so might be in contention.

It's right above your post and the only one that mentions Marshall.

If not, carry on

awec

Not complaining about this either cause it's great for Ulster, but I find it a bit weird Jackson is being released even if he's not in the 23.

What happens if Madigan or Sexton hurt themselves in the warmup on Sunday?

awec

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Did you not take your cue for Marshall being on the bench from this?



It's right above your post and the only one that mentions Marshall.

If not, carry on

Nah, I took my cue from the fact that #23 is going to be either Earls or Marshall.

I was just saying if Schmidt does go with Marshall then you have no need for Madigan.

Riskymove

aimee1 wrote: »

As a matter of interest what do you think the XV and Bench should be.

a number of people are only in because of injuries

while I can accept there is an argument for moving others around (e.g. Payne to 15 rather than bring in Zebo) I really don't see many other options

Ruddock vs O'Donnell is one but is likely the other is on the bench

wp_rathead

Madigan must be brilliant in the Irish training camp
Going by the season so far, Jackson is playing better

If the "Zebo at FB" rumour is true, TOH must be sitting at home scratching his head.. You would think Payne make sense but that would mean disrupting the centre partnership so guess that is the McCloskey question settled.. Hopefully we see the Zebo of "home to Stade" rather than the Zebo of "away to Dragons and Stade"

If Backrow is CJ, TOD and Heaslip - gonna need Tommy on his game with the two opensides Wales picked. O'Brien gonna be massive loss, hopefully Stander can bring what he has been doing for Munster to International arena

Still excited but no O'Mahony, Henderson or O'Brien in the pack is fecking massive..

aimee1

awec wrote: »

Not complaining about this either cause it's great for Ulster, but I find it a bit weird Jackson is being released even if he's not in the 23.

What happens if Madigan or Sexton hurt themselves in the warmup on Sunday?

Jackson benches tomorrow and will be at the aviva on Sunday presumably

Riskymove

awec wrote: »

What happens if Madigan or Sexton hurt themselves in the warmup on Sunday?

Isn't there usually a back up 24th person around as a contingency?

Maybe Madigan?

CMOTDibbler

awec wrote: »

Not complaining about this either cause it's great for Ulster, but I find it a bit weird Jackson is being released even if he's not in the 23.

What happens if Madigan or Sexton hurt themselves in the warmup on Sunday?

The Ulster match is tomorrow. Paddy will be back in Dublin well in time for the game I would think.

awec wrote: »

Nah, I took my cue from the fact that #23 is going to be either Earls or Marshall.

I was just saying if Schmidt does go with Marshall then you have no need for Madigan.

Ah! thanks.

There's as good a chance of McCloskey on the bench as Marshall surely?

awec

If I were Warren Gatland I'd be sending my back row forwards and whatever other big units were at my disposal right down Sexton's channel non-stop for the first 15 minutes. I suspect this will happen and hope to goodness he can actually take it.

Zzippy

That rumoured team can't be true. Zebo has been playing absolute gash for the last while. Payne or Henshaw to FB makes far more sense if RK is out.

awec

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

The Ulster match is on Saturday? Paddy will be back in Dublin well in time for the game I would think.


Ah! thanks.

There's as good a chance of McCloskey on the bench as Marshall surely?

McCloskey is only a 12. Marshall can at least play 13.

Madigan McCloskey makes even less sense than Madigan Marshall.

Madigan Earls is most likely I reckon.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

former total wrote: »

Yup. But he was behind Madigan and Keatley for the preceding Autumn internationals so the omens might not have been great.

I'm not sticking the boot in on Jackson, just asking posters to maybe take a step back and think about what we've consistently seen in selection.

Jackson was ahead of Madigan until another injury kept him out of the summer tour to Argentina in 2014. Up to that point Schmidt had mentioned Madigan's lack of game time for Leinster was an issue. Madigan obviously impressed enough to stay in the squad for the Autumn games that year. Jackson was injured twice that season, once in November and then again to rule him out of the 6 Nations.

I get what you're saying about it not being surprising but given that he was preferred until he was injured and Madigan's lack of game time back then was something Schmidt mentioned and now we've had an injury free and pretty impressive season from Jackson while Madigan has been sitting on the bench most of the time it shouldn't be that surprising either that some people may have thought it was possible a different decision would be made.

As I mentioned before though, barring Sexton getting knocked out early doors, we're looking at Madigan getting a brief run out at the end of a match so in that respect it doesn't really matter. Looking at the bigger picture and the very real possibility that Sexton may not be able to play much more than a year or two more it may be an issue, but looking solely at this 6 Nations it probably doesn't matter, or at least isn't worth getting too worked up about.

ClanofLams

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Not wanting to upset you or anything, but there is sense to be made of it if you want.

Like Madigan covers more positions than Jackson. Or Madigan kicks better than Jackson.

Jackson has been kicking very well for Ulster, don't have stats but I would think they are impressive for his recent games. Taking over from Pienaar has helped him a lot.

Sexton is far more likely to have to come off than Henshaw/Payne, although obviously hoping he will play the full 80.

The priority should be who is best equipped to come in at 10 and not sure how anyone could argue that is Madigan.

In addition I'm not one who thinks we should be sacrificing 6Ns to build towards 2019 but there needs to be some eye on the future and presumably Madigan won't be in the 23 when he's at Bordeaux.

awec

awec wrote: »

If I were Warren Gatland I'd be sending my back row forwards and whatever other big units were at my disposal right down Sexton's channel non-stop for the first 15 minutes. I suspect this will happen and hope to goodness he can actually take it.

I'm sure Sexton wouldn't be very happy about it but you'd almost be tempted to stick Stander in the channel to mind him, the way Wallace used for for ROG.

former total

awec wrote: »

Nah, I took my cue from the fact that #23 is going to be either Earls or Marshall.

I was just saying if Schmidt does go with Marshall then you have no need for Madigan.

Surely vice versa? I think I've misunderstood this. If you "have no need for Madigan" then Marshall is your out-half cover?!

Cosmo Kramer

lunarhog wrote: »

on a slightly unrelated note, does anyone know how Paul OConnell's recovery from his hamstring injury is going?

That's probably one for Le Cafe du Rugby at this stage sadly.

aimee1

Riskymove wrote: »

a number of people are only in because of injuries

while I can accept there is an argument for moving others around (e.g. Payne to 15 rather than bring in Zebo) I really don't see many other options

Ruddock vs O'Donnell is one but is likely the other is on the bench

Thats what i am getting at, we are literally changing close to half the match day squad which played france in october (if sob and rk are out its 10-11 changes). One or two calls will be made purely because its bare bones stuff.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

On the Madigan/Jackson issue.... just as a matter of interest, this time next year, what are we looking at? How many of the training camps would Madigan have been involved in? Would he be allowed attend the ones last week if there were Top 14 matches at the weekend?

aimee1

Zzippy wrote: »

That rumoured team can't be true. Zebo has been playing absolute gash for the last while. Payne or Henshaw to FB makes far more sense if RK is out.

Team been training as a unit all week so fb goes down, draft in fb cover and not switch others around too is the way JS seems to operate.

CMOTDibbler

awec wrote: »

McCloskey is only a 12. Marshall can at least play 13.

Madigan McCloskey makes even less sense than Madigan Marshall.

Madigan Earls is most likely I reckon.

Madigan can also cover wing. If you need a centre sub and you have either of McCloskey or Marshall on the bench, then they can take up their accustomed position and the remaining starting centre may or may not have to move.

Madigan covers OH, FB and Wing. Job done.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Madigan can also cover wing. If you need a centre sub and you have either of McCloskey or Marshall on the bench, then they can take up their accustomed position and the remaining starting centre may or may not have to move.

Madigan covers OH, FB and Wing. Job done.

I'm not sure I've ever seen Madigan on the wing? 10,12 and 15 yes, but never on the wing?

aimee1

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Madigan can also cover wing. If you need a centre sub and you have either of McCloskey or Marshall on the bench, then they can take up their accustomed position and the remaining starting centre may or may not have to move.

Madigan covers OH, FB and Wing. Job done.

Wing? And scrum half too. If he was a bit taller he could pack down beside toner

awec

former total wrote: »

Surely vice versa? I think I've misunderstood this. If you "have no need for Madigan" then Marshall is your out-half cover?!

No, I mean if you have Marshall on the bench at 23 then Jackson makes way more sense at 22 because Madigan's ability to play 12 is no longer required.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

aimee1 wrote: »

Wing? And scrum half too. If he was a bit taller he could pack down beside toner

I'd say McCloskey has as much experience playing SH as Madigan does.

former total

On the assumption of a Henshaw/Payne midfield, the bench will surely be Reddan, Madigan and (Earls/Dave K/Trimble/Zebo).

aimee1

former total wrote: »

On the assumption of a Henshaw/Payne midfield, the bench will surely be Reddan, Madigan and (Earls/Dave K/Trimble/Zebo).

Earls, trimble and zebo start apparently , so DK on bench

irishbucsfan

I wonder if Fitzgerald's injury helped Madigan's chances

NoelJ

When is a the team announced?

CMOTDibbler

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I'm not sure I've ever seen Madigan on the wing? 10,12 and 15 yes, but never on the wing?

Who else is there?

Some are suggesting Earls on the bench and that's clearly a possibility but I'm just going on what the rumoured team is. Obviously speculation, but if Earls is starting then the only other option is the much maligned Dave K on the bench who only really covers wing with a soupcon of full back (only to be broken in case of emergency).

So options are limited enough. Madigan covers OH, 12 and possibly FB, AN Other has to cover wing and/or centre. If we're mooting Marshall as the bench option for 23 then it could just as easily be McCloskey.

The Rape of Lucretia

aimee1 wrote: »

Earls, trimble and zebo start apparently , so DK on bench

WTF !!!!!!
Is that for real ?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Who else is there?

Some are suggesting Earls on the bench and that's clearly a possibility but I'm just going on what the rumoured team is. Obviously speculation, but if Earls is starting then the only other option is the much maligned Dave K on the bench who only really covers wing with a soupcon of full back (only to be broken in case of emergency).

So options are limited enough. Madigan covers OH, 12 and possibly FB, AN Other has to cover wing and/or centre. If we're mooting Marshall as the bench option for 23 then it could just as easily be McCloskey.

I wasn't arguing who should go where, I was pointing out that I've never seen Madigan play on the wing as was suggested in the post I replied to.

CMOTDibbler

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

WTF !!!!!!
Is that for real ?

Rumour.

Deep breaths.

Got through your sang froid though didn't it?

errlloyd

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I wonder if Fitzgerald's injury helped Madigan's chances

I know this is unlikely - but I also wonder if the fact that Ulster actually have a match this weekend had any bearing. In reality the material difference between Madigan and Jackson is small, and recently Joe hasn't subbed Sexton before 70 unless he's absolutely had to.

When Joe was Leinster coach he was vocally against the Ireland head coach unnecessarily taking his players away. Maybe Kiss suggested that as there is little between them, and as Jackson was useful to his province when Madigan is not, Mads got the nod this week.

I hope the above is the case. Jackson being released to his province will very possibly be the difference between them winning and losing this weekend, which in the long run is very good for the Irish set up.

Podge_irl

errlloyd wrote: »

When Joe was Leinster coach he was vocally against the Ireland head coach unnecessarily taking his players away. Maybe Kiss suggested that as there is little between them, and as Jackson was useful to his province when Madigan is not, Mads got the nod this week.

There is absolutely zero chance that line of thinking had the slightest impact on the decision.