Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

former total

swiwi_ wrote: »

I don't think Stander's selection was a toss up. However, on this forum it's considered a toss up because

a) He's not Irish
b) His province is not Leinster, where the majority of posters hail from, and he's in competition with Ruddock.

99% of posters don't give a damn where he's from and 99% of us don't care what province he plays for.

It's a toss up because the vacant jersey is at 6, Ruddock's best position and Stander plays a lot at 8. It's a toss up because Ruddock has had a lot more time in the squad, has been picked by Joe and has played well for the national team, none of which apply to Stander. Stander has been excellent for Munster but we've no idea how he's performed in camp or how Joe views him.

But yeah, we're all just racists.

Tigerandahalf

If that is the team I'd worry about the lineout and the breakdown. If Wales tag Toner we could have a lot of messy ball.

CJ has been decent for Munster but couldn't get near the S African team so it is hard to know what level he is going to bring. I'd imagine Heaslip will be thrown a good bit of ball to the back of the lineout.

Saturday is meant to be wet and windy so maybe he has gone for Zebo as he is better in the air than perhaps Payne.
SOB out injured again is becoming more normal than you like. If Stander plays well he could push him out of the picture long term with VdFlier coming through.

Buer

former total wrote: »

99% of posters don't give a damn where he's from and 99% of us don't care what province he plays for.

I would suspect that figure is way off. There's a clear bias against players from other provinces from a significant number of supporters.

former total

Buer wrote: »

I would suspect that figure is way off. There's a clear bias against players from other provinces from a significant number of supporters.

It's election time Buer. It's the season for unsubstantiated numbers.

aimee1

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Saturday is meant to be wet and windy

the match is sunday

CMOTDibbler

aimee1 wrote: »

the match is sunday

Also wet and windy

AdamD

I'll get bashed for it but I'd genuinely rather see non project players playing for Ireland. The whole project system takes away from International rugby IMO.

The Pheasant2

If that is indeed the team I wonder why they wouldn't just start Ruddock at 7 and Stander at 6.

Ruddock played at 7 against South Africa and we beat them well enough.

AdamD

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

If that is indeed the team I wonder why they wouldn't just start Ruddock at 7 and Stander at 6.

Ruddock played at 7 against South Africa and we beat them well enough.

Because playing 2 6s against 2 7s isn't going to end well.

bilston

AdamD wrote: »

I'll get bashed for it but I'd genuinely rather see non project players playing for Ireland. The whole project system takes away from International rugby IMO.

I don't see why you'd get bashed for having that opinion at all. I'd say many would feel like that. I

suppose my attitude is to work within the rules. These guys have all bought into Ireland and have given more to Irish rugby than I ever will do who am i to criticise. But yes in an ideal world there would be no need for them.

kuang1

Gotta say: there's no concrete theories/opinions/inside info this time round regarding the team...
So I'm not reading another post until after team is named officially.

What time is the press conference?

Edit: will have to read a couple more posts to find out the answer to my question!

aimee1

kuang1 wrote: »

Gotta say: there's no concrete theories/opinions/inside info this time round regarding the team...
So I'm not reading another post until after team is named officially.

What time is the press conference?

2pm i think i read earlier in the week

CMOTDibbler

bilston wrote: »

I don't see why you'd get bashed for having that opinion at all. I'd say many would feel like that. I

suppose my attitude is to work within the rules. These guys have all bought into Ireland and have given more to Irish rugby than I ever will do who am i to criticise. But yes in an ideal world there would be no need for them.

If you go back a page or so, you'll find I was labelled every kind of 'ist that could be dredged up for expressing such an opinion.

If we need them, then it's acceptable for a given value of acceptable. But when we have genuine alternatives produced by our systems and they get left out for a project player then you'd have to question its value. If anything it becomes a negative.

I also strongly believe that we are wasting valuable investment potential in our structures by importing players.

slingerz

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Seems Thornley does have his team for what it's worth (not much in recent times)

IRELAND (possible v Wales): S Zebo or R Kearney; A Trimble, J Payne, R Henshaw, K Earls; J Sexton, C Murray; J McGrath, R Best (capt), N White; D Toner, M McCarthy; CJ Stander, T O’Donnell, J Heaslip.
Replacements: J Cronin, R Strauss, T Furlong, D Ryan, R Ruddock, E Reddan, I Madigan, D Kearney.

The sight of Toner and McCarthy in the second row makes me shudder, think its a toss up between McCarthy & Ryan there but all provinces arent blessed with second rows. Henderson is a huge loss in the absence of POC.

I think Schmidt will start Ruddock over Stander in the back row as well.

If it were my choice, McCloskey would be in the centre, Stander in the back row

WeleaseWoderick

Not sure if mentioned yet, but I found myself massively disagreeing with Matt Williams' assessment of what should be deemed success for the Ireland team. He said that winning the Six Nations again without changing our style couldn't be seen as success.

Personally, I think that is a ridiculous view to take. We are getting to a stage where nothing short of a World Cup win is deemed success by some people. He also didn't feel any allowance should be made for the fact 1/3 of our team was missing against Argentina.

To be fair, the interviewers did all seem to be taken aback by his views as well.

WeleaseWoderick

Not sure if mentioned yet, but I found myself massively disagreeing with Matt Williams' assessment of what should be deemed success for the Ireland team. He said that winning the Six Nations again without changing our style couldn't be seen as success.

Personally, I think that is a ridiculous view to take. We are getting to a stage where nothing short of a World Cup win is deemed success by some people. He also didn't feel any allowance should be made for the fact 1/3 of our team was missing against Argentina.

To be fair, the interviewers did all seem to be taken aback by his views as well.

Podge_irl

WeleaseWoderick wrote: »

Not sure if mentioned yet, but I found myself massively disagreeing with Matt Williams' assessment of what should be deemed success for the Ireland team. He said that winning the Six Nations again without changing our style couldn't be seen as success.

Weird definition of success.

Probably one he's had to contort to make any of his coaching tenures count as successful.

sydthebeat

slingerz wrote: »

The sight of Toner and McCarthy in the second row makes me shudder, think its a toss up between McCarthy & Ryan there but all provinces arent blessed with second rows. Henderson is a huge loss in the absence of POC.

I think Schmidt will start Ruddock over Stander in the back row as well.

If it were my choice, McCloskey would be in the centre, Stander in the back row

what would you do if its mccarty and toner, with Dillane on the bench? or worse... ruddock... ???

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Lynne Cantwell is probably among the most knowledgeable/talented rugby writers around at the moment.

http://www.the42.ie/lynne-cantwell-ireland-six-nations-2583194-Feb2016/

One of Ireland's best rugby minds pointing out what people should already know about the Argentina game, and much more:

Ha, I was reading that last night as well and had that very section selected so that I could copy and paste it n here. But then decided I'd be wasting my time.

I really like the articles of hers that I've read. There was one in particular during the RWC that was talking about how rarely top teams are breached on first or second phase and how you sometimes need to look to 10+ phases to break teams down. It stood out in a time when people were looking for the kind of strike plays that we saw with Leinster instead of the kicking game we'd seen in the 6Ns.

Rightwing

slingerz wrote: »

The sight of Toner and McCarthy in the second row makes me shudder, think its a toss up between McCarthy & Ryan there but all provinces arent blessed with second rows. Henderson is a huge loss in the absence of POC.

I think Schmidt will start Ruddock over Stander in the back row as well.

If it were my choice, McCloskey would be in the centre, Stander in the back row

Agreed, I'm leaning more and more towards Wales.

CMOTDibbler

Rightwing wrote: »

Agreed, I'm leaning more and more towards Wales.

aimee1

slingerz wrote: »

The sight of Toner and McCarthy in the second row makes me shudder, think its a toss up between McCarthy & Ryan there but all provinces arent blessed with second rows. Henderson is a huge loss in the absence of POC.

I think Schmidt will start Ruddock over Stander in the back row as well.

If it were my choice, McCloskey would be in the centre, Stander in the back row

rumours on here suggest Toner/McCarthy with Dillane on the bench. If thats the case then is there an issue with Ryan fitness wise?

d-gal

aimee1 wrote: »

rumours on here suggest Toner/McCarthy with Dillane on the bench. If thats the case then is there an issue with Ryan fitness wise?

It'd be the right call anyways. Dillane is a far better player and Ryan has played distinctively average this season.
Id be confident that he will start beside Henderson next season

Quint2010

Delighted Stander is starting. Will definitely back him first try scorer. Hopefully McCloskey starts too with Payne at full back but I doubt that will happen.

budhabob

d-gal wrote: »

It'd be the right call anyways. Dillane is a far better player and Ryan has played distinctively average this season.
Id be confident that he will start beside Henderson next season

Agreed, Ryan is way below par. Dillane brings alot off the bench, delighted if so.

Buer

slingerz wrote: »

The sight of Toner and McCarthy in the second row makes me shudder, think its a toss up between McCarthy & Ryan there but all provinces arent blessed with second rows.

On talent, Ryan all day. On fitness and form, McCarthy has to start; he's well ahead of Toner too on form.

Ryan (or Dillane) coming on after 55 minutes for McCarthy, p*ssed off with a point to prove is a good situation, much better than the reverse.

swiwi_

former total wrote: »

Stander has been excellent for Munster but we've no idea how he's performed in camp or how Joe views him.

If he's indeed chosen at 6, I would infer that he's performed well at camp and that Joey views him in a favorable light.

As for the rest of your what you said, I respect your rugby knowledge which is clearly extensive, but I do find words such as sanctimonius and condescending spring to my mind at times when reading your posts. You probably spend just about the most time of anyone on this forum on the site, but it's a discussion forum not a didactic teaching site.

I will absolutely beg to differ on your assertion that the vast majority of posters are eminently neutral. For whatever reasons, historical or other, I was quite surprised (even astounded), when living in Ireland by the degree of "localism".

Clegg

I'd advise not going to Planet Rugby right now. The provincialism on display there would make even Boards most one eyed posters bluch.

LostArt

Ah planet rugby is just a different world of crazy even at the best of times

CMOTDibbler

swiwi_ wrote: »

I will absolutely beg to differ on your assertion that the vast majority of posters are eminently neutral. For whatever reasons, historical or other, I was quite surprised (even astounded), when living in Ireland by the degree of "localism".

At the risk of appearing didactic or pedantic, but the best word to use is 'parochialism'.

I'd completely agree with your assessment, but was it not you that was saying not so long ago that it was time we stopped taking your players?

swiwi_

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

At the risk of appearing didactic or pedantic, but the best word to use is 'parochialism'.

I'd completely agree with your assessment, but was it not you that was saying not so long ago that it was time we stopped taking your players?

Well i wish you would, but you (in the sense or Europe in general) won't.

Given he IS eligible I see no reason to hold that personally against Stander, who has been in great form.

bilston

That RUMOURED pack worries me a lot!

thomond2006

OUTRAGE

awec

swiwi_ wrote: »

Well i wish you would, but you (in the sense or Europe in general) won't.

Given he IS eligible I see no reason to hold that personally against Stander, who has been in great form.

It's not our fault Swiwi that there are so many young SH players who grow up wanting to pull on the famous white of Ulster, or the famous red of Munster.

Not so many for Leinster though.

Quint2010

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

At the risk of appearing didactic or pedantic, but the best word to use is 'parochialism'.

I'd completely agree with your assessment, but was it not you that was saying not so long ago that it was time we stopped taking your players?

"Tribalism"?:D

Buer

awec wrote: »

It's not our fault Swiwi that there are so many young SH players who grow up wanting to pull on the famous white of Ulster, or the famous red of Munster.

Not so many for Leinster though.

It's called an academy, awec.

CMOTDibbler

Quint2010 wrote: »

"Tribalism"?:D

Hmmm. Tribalism carries with it a certain degree of honourable competition; even warfare.

Parochialism engenders images of squinting windows and xenophobic insularity.

...or something

awec

Buer wrote: »

It's called an academy, awec.

We have one of those as well, except ours is called "Centres of excellence".

Get it?

Teferi

Feckin' swiss kiwis, coming in here, taking our posts.

Larbre34

As a Leinster fan, I dont think McCarthy should be near a test squad at this stage. Id go with Ruddock in the 2nd row, Stander at 6 and Van der Flier on the bench.

And I think Wales will win, perhaps by a low margin dictated by the weather

molloyjh

swiwi_ wrote: »

If he's indeed chosen at 6, I would infer that he's performed well at camp and that Joey views him in a favorable light.

Yeah look I don't want him starting myself for reasons I've previously outlined. If there is an Irish guy challenging for the place in the Irish team the Irish guy should get the nod. But thems not the rules and I trust Joe so I won't be that bothered if it comes to pass really. I'd rather it didn't, but I'd also rather I won the lotto. No point in getting upset over any of it.

awec wrote: »

It's not our fault Swiwi that there are so many young SH players who grow up wanting to pull on the famous white of Ulster, or the famous red of Munster.

Not so many for Leinster though.

They just know that, unless they are of the quality of someone like Isa, they simply won't make the starting team. We're just too good.

swiwi_

Teferi wrote: »

Feckin' swiss kiwis, coming in here, taking our posts.

After more than 3 years in Ireland and an Irish grannie my posts have just as much claim as yours

Quint2010

awec wrote: »

We have one of those as well, except ours is called "Centres of excellence".

Get it?

And Leinster's is "All positions on the pitch apart from centres (and maybe second row) of excellence"...

molloyjh

Larbre34 wrote: »

As a Leinster fan, I dont think McCarthy should be near a test squad at this stage. Id go with Ruddock in the 2nd row, Stander at 6 and Van der Flier on the bench.

And I think Wales will win, perhaps by a low margin dictated by the weather

I think Ruddock showed against the Dragons that he simply isn't a second row at all. McCarthy has been good this season and provides real solidity to the set piece, particularly the scrum on the TH side. Something we probably need with 2 THs injured at the moment.

molloyjh

swiwi_ wrote: »

After more than 3 years in Ireland and an Irish grannie my posts have just as much claim as yours

Can't argue with the granny rule!

former total

swiwi_ wrote: »

If he's indeed chosen at 6, I would infer that he's performed well at camp and that Joey views him in a favorable light.

As for the rest of your what you said, I respect your rugby knowledge which is clearly extensive, but I do find words such as sanctimonius and condescending spring to my mind at times when reading your posts. You probably spend just about the most time of anyone on this forum on the site, but it's a discussion forum not a didactic teaching site.

I will absolutely beg to differ on your assertion that the vast majority of posters are eminently neutral. For whatever reasons, historical or other, I was quite surprised (even astounded), when living in Ireland by the degree of "localism".

Yeah, I post here a fair bit, what that has to do with anything is beyond me.

The problem with using words like "condescending" and "sanctimonius" is that, more often than not, you just come across as sanctimonius and condescending yourself. Hope that's not too didactic for you.

Stick me on your ignore list, job done.

Mahatma Geansai

If the leaked/rumoured team is correct, McCarthy and Toner must be one of the weakest lock pairings we've played at this level. The lineout has to be a worry too as Toner is the only accomplished lineout forward in the pack, and he is only good because of his height; its a long-way from having the legendary POC and world-class POM to call upon.

You would have to be disappointed with the conservatism and disregard for form shown with the backline too. How McCloskey and Jackson have been ignore, I will never know.

awec

swiwi_ wrote: »

After more than 3 years in Ireland and an Irish grannie my posts have just as much claim as yours

If only you'd moved here during your playing days

Neil3030

Housemate's cat just full on ran head first into my bedroom door. Guess you need to have seen it but was bloody hillarious.

(Trying to lighten the mood around here )

thomond2006

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

If the leaked/rumoured team is correct, McCarthy and Toner must be one of the weakest lock pairings we've played at this level. The lineout has to be a worry too as Toner is the only accomplished lineout forward in the pack, and he is only good because of his height; its a long-way from having the legendary POC and world-class POM to call upon.

You would have to be disappointed with the conservatism and disregard for form shown with the backline too. How McCloskey and Jackson have been ignore, I will never know.

With Zebo at fullback I can understand a reluctance to not change the centres. With Madigan on the bench there's no point having McCloskey on the bench as well. If Dillane is ahead of Ryan on the bench then that's hardly conservatism.

Also, since when has the Welsh lineout been strong? Stander/Ruddock are both good lineout forwards, although POM is a step above both in that area IMO.