Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

Quint2010

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

If the leaked/rumoured team is correct, McCarthy and Toner must be one of the weakest lock pairings we've played at this level. The lineout has to be a worry too as Toner is the only accomplished lineout forward in the pack, and he is only good because of his height; its a long-way from having the legendary POC and world-class POM to call upon.

You would have to be disappointed with the conservatism and disregard for form shown with the backline too. How McCloskey and Jackson have been ignore, I will never know.

Who would you have ahead of McCarthy? Unfortunately POC is retired (even tho he isnt really) and POM is injured. And would you seriously pick Jackson ahead of Sexton? Who would be our goal-kicker then?

former total

Larbre34 wrote: »

As a Leinster fan, I dont think McCarthy should be near a test squad at this stage. Id go with Ruddock in the 2nd row, Stander at 6 and Van der Flier on the bench.

And I think Wales will win, perhaps by a low margin dictated by the weather

I think McCarthy is the form lock BUT massive concerns about how he'll handle the jump back up to international level. It's over two years since he played a test of any significance.

Ditto van der Flier, a great player but I'd be worried that he'd be blown away by the Welsh pack.

Personally, I'd have started Ruddock and Stander at 6 and 7. I don't think TOD is a classic groundhog anyway so we're likely to be at a disadvantage at the breakdown as it is, might as well try to bludgeon them with power instead.

sydthebeat

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

If the leaked/rumoured team is correct, McCarthy and Toner must be one of the weakest lock pairings we've played at this level. The lineout has to be a worry too as Toner is the only accomplished lineout forward in the pack, and he is only good because of his height; its a long-way from having the legendary POC and world-class POM to call upon.
.

:rolleyes:

your bias knows no end does it.

Mahatma Geansai

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

If the leaked/rumoured team is correct, McCarthy and Toner must be one of the weakest lock pairings we've played at this level. The lineout has to be a worry too as Toner is the only accomplished lineout forward in the pack, and he is only good because of his height; its a long-way from having the legendary POC and world-class POM to call upon.

You would have to be disappointed with the conservatism and disregard for form shown with the backline too. How McCloskey and Jackson have been ignore, I will never know.

You're really becoming a parody of yourself at this stage

Neil3030

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

If the leaked/rumoured team is correct, McCarthy and Toner must be one of the weakest lock pairings we've played at this level. The lineout has to be a worry too as Toner is the only accomplished lineout forward in the pack, and he is only good because of his height; its a long-way from having the legendary POC and world-class POM to call upon.

You would have to be disappointed with the conservatism and disregard for form shown with the backline too. How McCloskey and Jackson have been ignore, I will never know.

I completely agree and hope we accordingly see Joe go with Ruddock ahead of Stander. Though knowing him and his conservativism and disregard for form....

Buer

awec wrote: »

We have one of those as well, except ours is called "Centres of excellence".

Get it?

There it is, awec.

The most intelligent thing you'll ever say and you wasted it on me.

Mahatma Geansai

Neil3030 wrote: »

I completely agree and hope we accordingly see Joe go with Ruddock ahead of Stander. Though knowing him and his conservativism and disregard for form....

Stander is simply too good to overlook. The easiest way to get a good lineout option into the pack would be to bring in one of the other locks for McCarthy.

typhoony

i think he'll go with Henshaw and McCloskey in midfield, donnacha ryan you'd expect to partner Toner, big call at Full-back to be made drop Kearney it's possible. before the wales team announcement I would have said Stander is a shoe-in, but now thinking Jow might spring a suprise a pick a more mobile backrow.

After the Argentina Game I would haver said the back 3 needed the biggest shakeup but Joe seems to have his favorite players so don't expect too much suprises except for Kearney senior

CMOTDibbler

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Stander is simply too good to overlook. The easiest way to get a good lineout option into the pack would be to bring in one of the other locks for McCarthy.

How many 'other' locks do we have? and how many of them are showing good form?

Clegg

Tbh I don't see why we should break up the Henshaw/Payne midfield. It was a very effective combo last year.

Scythica

Neil3030 wrote: »

Housemate's cat just full on ran head first into my bedroom door. Guess you need to have seen it but was bloody hillarious.

(Trying to lighten the mood around here )

He must have heard Zebo to start at FB...

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

typhoony wrote: »

i think he'll go with Henshaw and McCloskey in midfield, donnacha ryan you'd expect to partner Toner, big call at Full-back to be made drop Kearney it's possible. before the wales team announcement I would have said Stander is a shoe-in, but now thinking Jow might spring a suprise a pick a more mobile backrow

If Kearney's not there it's because he's injured. There's no way Kearney gets "dropped" when there's no viable replacement (Schmidt obviously doesn't view Henshaw and Payne as FBs)

Mahatma Geansai

thomond2006 wrote: »

With Zebo at fullback I can understand a reluctance to not change the centres. With Madigan on the bench there's no point having McCloskey on the bench as well. If Dillane is ahead of Ryan on the bench then that's hardly conservatism.

Also, since when has the Welsh lineout been strong? Stander/Ruddock are both good lineout forwards, although POM is a step above both in that area IMO.

Why is Zebo at fullback though? His form has been poor this season, and he is only there now because he was there at the RWC. Put McCloskey at 12, Henshaw at 13, and Payne at 15. Considering form at this time, that is a much stronger backline. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Zebo plays brilliantly against Wales, but starting him there ahead of Payne doesn't make sense at this moment in time.

Madigan shouldn't be ahead of Jackson. Jackson is a massuively superior 10; there is no debate to be had. McCloskey should be starting.

Its not just a matter of the Welsh lineout being strong, its that we have a single lineout option. Its senseless. Ruddock is a good option, but it would weaken our backrow to include him. Stander is a grand lineout option, but he is also 6ft2 and 18st.

Clegg

Neil3030 wrote: »

Housemate's cat just full on ran head first into my bedroom door. Guess you need to have seen it but was bloody hillarious.

(Trying to lighten the mood around here )

Been watching tapes of Rob Kearney's fullback play?

typhoony

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

If Kearney's not there it's because he's injured. There's no way Kearney gets "dropped" when there's no viable replacement (Schmidt obviously doesn't view Henshaw and Payne as FBs)

both Henshaw and Payne are class Full-Backs, pity Joe sees it differently. McCloskeys arrival on the scene may have changed things though

AdamD

Clegg wrote: »

Tbh I don't see why we should break up the Henshaw/Payne midfield. It was a very effective combo last year.

It wasn't though? I don't recall it ever being considered very effective during the 6 Nations last year. If I recall people were reasonably happy with how it performed in defence but not at all impressed with the two as an attacking unit.

Timothy Bryce

SOB confirmed out apparently

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Timothy Bryce wrote: »

SOB confirmed out apparently

And Rob K.

Think we've been expecting it most of the week though.

CMOTDibbler

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Its not just a matter of the Welsh lineout being strong, its that we have a single lineout option. Its senseless.

How have we a single lineout option? Depending on who starts, we have Toner, McCarthy/Ryan/Dillane and Heaslip at a minimum.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

AdamD wrote: »

It wasn't though? I don't recall it ever being considered very effective during the 6 Nations last year. If I recall people were reasonably happy with how it performed in defence but not at all impressed with the two as an attacking unit.

It seems unlikely that we're going to move too far away from that same style of rugby so the point stands, they were effective at doing what they were asked to do, so why change it if you don't have to.

swiwi_

former total wrote: »

Stick me on your ignore list, job done.

Nah, I agree with the vast majority of what you post, even if not always the manner.

Besides you don't have a mystical Indian sounding username, which disqualfies you going on my ignore list.

CMOTDibbler

AdamD wrote: »

It wasn't though? I don't recall it ever being considered very effective during the 6 Nations last year. If I recall people were reasonably happy with how it performed in defence but not at all impressed with the two as an attacking unit.

Against Wales, the first thing you need is strong defence in the centre. You're not going to get much change out of Roberts and Davies in attack either. They are both unbelievably good defenders, Roberts is exceptional.

wp_rathead

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Stander is simply too good to overlook. The easiest way to get a good lineout option into the pack would be to bring in one of the other locks for McCarthy.

Aside from Muldowney, Mike McCarthy is the form lock in Ireland

Mahatma Geansai

wp_rathead wrote: »

Aside from Muldowney, Mike McCarthy is the form lock in Ireland

He's fine for 50 minutes of low-paced provincial rugby. However, he isn't a good lineout option and the step-up to 6N is huge.

wp_rathead

wp_rathead wrote: »

Aside from Muldowney, Mike McCarthy is the form lock in Ireland

The problem is more with Toner. A lot of people aren't aware of this, but he actually doesn't know how to play rugby at all. He's just selected because of his height and how funny it looks when he shakes hands with Michael D.

We are effectively down to 14 men every game just so Joe can have himself a roflocopter during the anthems.

.ak

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

He's fine for 50 minutes of low-paced provincial rugby. However, he isn't a good lineout option and the step-up to 6N is huge.

He's stepped up fine to international rugby before.

molloyjh

sydthebeat wrote: »

:rolleyes:

your bias knows no end does it.

Two Leinster players: BOOOOOO

Two Munster players: YAAAAYYYYY

It's comic book stuff at this stage.

Mahatma Geansai

.ak wrote: »

He's stepped up fine to international rugby before.

Donnacha O'Callaghan was a capped B&I Lion in 2009.

captbarnacles

thomond2006 wrote: »

With Zebo at fullback I can understand a reluctance to not change the centres. With Madigan on the bench there's no point having McCloskey on the bench as well. If Dillane is ahead of Ryan on the bench then that's hardly conservatism.

Also, since when has the Welsh lineout been strong? Stander/Ruddock are both good lineout forwards, although POM is a step above both in that area IMO.

Since their hooker has been allowed to take a pace left or right and throw straight down his own line :P

Mahatma Geansai

molloyjh wrote: »

Two Leinster players: BOOOOOO

Two Munster players: YAAAAYYYYY

It's comic book stuff at this stage.

Two brilliant lineout forwards that we have lost from the pack.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Deleted User wrote: »

The problem is more with Toner. A lot of people aren't aware of this, but he actually doesn't know how to play rugby at all. He's just selected because of his height and how funny it looks when he shakes hands with Michael D.

We are effectively down to 14 men every game just so Joe can have himself a roflocopter during the anthems.

It's the same reason Madigan gets picked over Jackson. The height difference between himself and Toner always raises a chuckle.

CMOTDibbler

.ak wrote: »

He's stepped up fine to international rugby before.

I'd be far happier with McCarthy starting than Ryan who's been very poor so far. Hopefully Joe will be able to stop the rot and get Ryan back to his best but in the meantime I'm looking forward to seeing Dillane on the pitch whenever he gets his chance.

molloyjh

typhoony wrote: »

both Henshaw and Payne are class Full-Backs, pity Joe sees it differently. McCloskeys arrival on the scene may have changed things though
I know the truth, it's just a shame that a professional and successful rugby rugby coach doesn't know as much as me.

Fixed your post.

Timothy Bryce

.ak wrote: »

He's stepped up fine to international rugby before.

Arguably Leinster's form player so far this season (VDF aside), as well as the country's form lock. He'd been in poor form prior to this season but seems to have gotten back to where he used to be.

2nd row wouldn't be a worry for me. Bigger issue @ 7, 12/13 & 15

molloyjh

Timothy Bryce wrote: »

Arguably Leinster's form player so far this season (VDF aside), as well as the country's form lock. He'd been in poor form prior to this season but seems to have gotten back to where he used to be.

Well if he's the form option then Joe clearly won't pick him as he has no time for form.

leakyboots

McCarthy is the correct call given D. Ryan's poor form. He'll hit the rucks and stop fellas that run into him in their tracks.

It's still not a partnership that would have many rugby nations quaking in their boots but it's our form one.

Zebo is lucky to be named, he's come back into a bit of form in the last few matches but for most of the season wasn't at the races (like many from the RWC squad). I'm still glad to see him start instead of Rob Kearney though, injury or not.

Quint2010

The lineout doesnt really worry me too much. Toner will be up against Charteris so there's no real advantage to either team there. AWJ always wins his own ball at two anyway so McCarthy challenging him wont concern us either way. Heaslip looks like he might be used a lot and I would expect us to use Stander a lot off first phase line out ball.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

leakyboots wrote: »

Zebo is lucky to be named, he's come back into a bit of form in the last few matches but for most of the season wasn't at the races (like many from the RWC squad). I'm still glad to see him start instead of Rob Kearney though, injury or not.

This makes no sense. You think he's lucky to even be in the team but still think he should start over a fit Rob Kearney?

CMOTDibbler

All this comment is being based on projected/leaked/guessed teams. The chances are that they are correct, but there's still a possibility that they're wrong.

Tomtom364

typhoony wrote: »

i think he'll go with Henshaw and McCloskey in midfield, donnacha ryan you'd expect to partner Toner, big call at Full-back to be made drop Kearney it's possible. before the wales team announcement I would have said Stander is a shoe-in, but now thinking Jow might spring a suprise a pick a more mobile backrow.

After the Argentina Game I would haver said the back 3 needed the biggest shakeup but Joe seems to have his favorite players so don't expect too much suprises except for Kearney senior

more mobile? have you watched alot of standers play? he is very mobile, gets all over the park and has the pace to exploit a linebreak.
for example

and i think alot of people are underestimating his ground work aswell, lookmback on his preformances, he dosnt go for every ball on the floor, he identifies when a turnover is on and from memory id say mostly when he goes for it, he gets it.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

All this comment is being based on projected/leaked/guessed teams. The chances are that they are correct, but there's still a possibility that they're wrong.

Looking at the photos from Wednesday's training session and I couldn't see Rob K or SOB anywhere in them. In the past Schmidt's been pretty consistent with his don't train don't play policy.

Mahatma Geansai

Tomtom364 wrote: »

more mobile? have you watched alot of standers play? he is very mobile, gets all over the park and has the pace to exploit a linebreak.
for example

and i think alot of people are underestimating his ground work aswell, lookmback on his preformances, he dosnt go for every ball on the floor, he identifies when a turnover is on and from memory id say mostly when he goes for it, he gets it.

If nothing else, Stander and TOD will add huge pace to our backrow. It'll be needed to match the Welsh one.

leakyboots

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

This makes no sense. You think he's lucky to even be in the team but still think he should start over a fit Rob Kearney?

We know what RK brings, good in the air, positional play and running into contact, we've hardly had anyone else play 15 since he came into the team, so it's good to have a look at someone else. And RK's form has as patchy if not worse than Zebo's this season for me.

I'd prefer Payne there out of all 3 to be honest.

Podge_irl

molloyjh wrote: »

Two Leinster players: BOOOOOO

Two Munster players: YAAAAYYYYY

It's comic book stuff at this stage.

Meh, he's not wrong. It's a rubbish international second row.

Very happy with Stander starting, will have to take over SOB's usual job of punching holes, and is probably better at getting the ball away from the tackle than SOB too.

Not sure (well, I am actually) why there's any moaning about McCarthy really. Has had a ridiculously good season and is worth his place, even if that is for only 50/55 minutes. Ryan's fault for not playing well enough to demand inclusion tbh.

I'd rather 12 Big Stu, 13 Big Robbie, 15 Wee Jared than the mooted team, but if Kearney's exclusion was late in the week then you can understand just swapping the understudy in.

Really hope Sexton can make it past 60 minutes.

Will be watching Furlong & White, Stander and Henshaw and thinking that we'll need big games out of each of them to do well here.

Murray and Sexton will need to do better than they both have this season, but even in poor form we need them both playing most of the game.

Wales' pack is a serious group. AWJ is POC with hair and a Welsh accent, and he's going to be licking his lips at the thought of jumping v a heavy back row and an ageing McCarthy.

I said before the England game that TOD and Jordi would struggle to deal with the English at the breakdown but both stood up.

Wales are a step up again, but Stander is a more complete and more powerful player than Jordi so hopefully the lads can find some way to live with them on the deck.

Zebo is having a poor season, a couple of times I was really disappointed with his lack of urgency and commitment, but at the same time I think he has so much to his game that if he turns it on this Sunday, he could have a big game.

Our second row will be fine if not spectacular. Our front row the same.

I have faith in Joe either way. Ireland by 7.

wp_rathead

leakyboots wrote: »

Zebo is lucky to be named, he's come back into a bit of form in the last few matches but for most of the season wasn't at the races (like many from the RWC squad). I'm still glad to see him start instead of Rob Kearney though, injury or not.

If both fit and option was between current form Zebo and current form Rob Kearney I'd go for Kearney personally
I'd love Payne there but clearly Joe doesn't want disrupt his favored centre partnership

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Not that the Fantasy Rugger stats mean much but Stander has appeared a few times on them...

Defenders Beaten - 34 (he's 3rd behind Nowell 47 and McCloskey 54)
He's the top performing player across all competitions, with McCloskey in 2nd.
He's joint first for tries scored with 7.
He's averaged 48m a game this season too.

Interestingly enough, the player who has made the most line breaks this season is Luke Marshall and Dave Kearney is 5th. That's out of all the nations and across all competitions.

awec

Deleted User wrote: »

Very happy with Stander starting, will have to take over SOB's usual job of punching holes, and is probably better at getting the ball away from the tackle than SOB too.

Not sure (well, I am actually) why there's any moaning about McCarthy really. Has had a ridiculously good season and is worth his place, even if that is for only 50/55 minutes. Ryan's fault for not playing well enough to demand inclusion tbh.

I'd rather 12 Big Stu, 13 Big Robbie, 15 Wee Jared than the mooted team, but if Kearney's exclusion was late in the week then you can understand just swapping the understudy in.

Really hope Sexton can make it past 60 minutes.

Will be watching Furlong & White, Stander and Henshaw and thinking that we'll need big games out of each of them to do well here.

Murray and Sexton will need to do better than they both have this season, but even in poor form we need them both playing most of the game.

Wales' pack is a serious group. AWJ is POC with hair and a Welsh accent, and he's going to be licking his lips at the thought of jumping v a heavy back row and an ageing McCarthy.

I'll be delighted if Sexton makes it to 60 minutes!

As I said yesterday I expect he's going to have a very busy first 15 minutes with every big unit the welsh have being sent like a bullet down his channel.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Not that the Fantasy Rugger stats mean much but Stander has appeared a few times on them...

Defenders Beaten - 34 (he's 3rd behind Nowell 47 and McCloskey 54)
He's the top performing player across all competitions, with McCloskey in 2nd.
He's joint first for tries scored with 7.
He's averaged 48m a game this season too.

Interestingly enough, the player who has made the most line breaks this season is Luke Marshall and Dave Kearney is 5th. That's out of all the nations and across all competitions.

Dave Kearney only makes those breaks though, because the opposition are expecting him to come at pace, but he's so slow that he throws them off and they miss tackle him. Wouldn't get away with that at international level.