Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

stephen_n wrote: »

Matt Williams the successful coach? Had an interesting article criticizing the coach who has delivered back to back 6N championships. I'm sure it is interesting, it's also interesting how Matt Williams analysis can carry so much weight for those who wanted Joe to fail from the start.

I said this the other day, I don't think for one second Joe Schmidt should be beyond questioning and if people want to find fault or criticise then that's fine but Matt Williams really grinds my gears. His criticism of Schmidt (and was it Payne during the World Cup?) never seems rooted in any kind of reality or at best he simply chooses to ignore the other side of the arguments he puts forward and then acts like the Irish public think it's a crime to say anything negative.

He singled out Payne during the WC for his lack of attacking prowess but didn't bother to mention or acknowledge the fact that he's clearly not there to attack. There are indeed more attack minded centres available for Ireland but Schmidt sticks with Payne because Payne plays the game Schmidt wants him to.

He criticises Schmidt's style of play, we have to be scoring more tries but doesn't bother to acknowledge the fact that England scored a shed load more tries than any of the rest of us last season and we still won the 6 Nations because of our defense.

He says we need to play more like the SH teams if we are to compete with them. He ignores the fact that during the WC we passed more than any other team in the competition, we kicked the exact same number of times as New Zealand did. He ignores the fact that there simply isn't the natural skill set in Ireland to enable us to play like a New Zealand team. We could give it a go and probably end up looking like France, loads of individual flare but ultimately a ridiculous mess as likely to concede a try at any given moment as we are to score one.

Point being, there are legitimate questions to be asked of Joe Schmidt and his Irish team but there are also legitimate answers to be found but people like Matt Williams don't want to hear the answers, they want to throw about the criticism and then everyone should just shut up and agree with him. Actually, he reminds me of a certain type of internet poster. The kind who feels it's fine for them to argue against your point but then gets thick if you try to engage them in conversation.

Also something that made me laugh yesterday was Keith Wood on BBC. They were doing little previews on all the teams and they crossed over to Keith in Paris to ask him about Ireland and were we at the start of a new stage in Irish rugby, or something to that effect. He started talking about the players who are gone, BOD (he's gone a while, people still acting like he's just left) and POC and then he says it's worrying, WORRYING, that Garry Ringrose isn't in the Ireland squad. WORRYING!?! That a kid who hasn't even played a full senior season at his club isn't in the Ireland team. Ridiculous. Some people may be disappointed that he didn't get in the final squad, that's fine, and he does look a promising player but it is beyond ridiculous to imply that it's "worrying" for Irish rugby that he wasn't in the team.

stephen_n

swiwi_ wrote: »

There is absolutely no doubt that Schmidt is a top coach.

The jury is out for me on whether he is also a top selector.

The jury is currently retired to deliberate and a possible decision is expected later this afternoon. Although the members may ask for further evidence and defer the decision by a few weeks (fence-sitting is the colloquial term).

Selection is always contentious, even for the All Blacks. Surely the only real barometer is wins?

Bazzo

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Also something that made me laugh yesterday was Keith Wood on BBC. They were doing little previews on all the teams and they crossed over to Keith in Paris to ask him about Ireland and were we at the start of a new stage in Irish rugby, or something to that effect. He started talking about the players who are gone, BOD (he's gone a while, people still acting like he's just left) and POC and then he says it's worrying, WORRYING, that Garry Ringrose isn't in the Ireland squad. WORRYING!?! That a kid who hasn't even played a full senior season at his club isn't in the Ireland team. Ridiculous. Some people may be disappointed that he didn't get in the final squad, that's fine, and he does look a promising player but it is beyond ridiculous to imply that it's "worrying" for Irish rugby that he wasn't in the team.

I was full sure you were going to bring up when the girl in the BBC studio turned to Keith Wood yesterday and said "But we don't usually see hookers making great captains do we?" or something along those lines before she copped what she'd done(never mind the fact there are 3 hookers captaining their sides this 6 nations).

Clegg

Mattie is a hero, but he's never liked the way Ireland play under Schmidt. This isn't a new thing for him. This isn't a sea change in opinion or anything like that.

Buer

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Also something that made me laugh yesterday was Keith Wood on BBC. They were doing little previews on all the teams and they crossed over to Keith in Paris to ask him about Ireland and were we at the start of a new stage in Irish rugby, or something to that effect. He started talking about the players who are gone, BOD (he's gone a while, people still acting like he's just left) and POC and then he says it's worrying, WORRYING, that Garry Ringrose isn't in the Ireland squad. WORRYING!?! That a kid who hasn't even played a full senior season at his club isn't in the Ireland team. Ridiculous. Some people may be disappointed that he didn't get in the final squad, that's fine, and he does look a promising player but it is beyond ridiculous to imply that it's "worrying" for Irish rugby that he wasn't in the team.

I wouldn't bat an eyelid at anything Keith Wood says. He's a dinosaur in the professional game and retired for 13 years. He was an outspoken advocate of Munster going back to a forward dominated game when Rob Penney was trying to bring the team into the modern era.

Those who can, coach. Those who can't, commentate. There's a good reason why Messrs Wood, Ward, Guscott, Hook etc. are sitting in studios whilst the likes of Schmidt and O'Shea have been successful coaches for years.

As for Williams, he's a dinosaur now too who hasn't been able to adjust to the modern game in terms of the wholesale changes we've seen tactically but he still has a very decent eye for analysis and patterns. It's a shame he hasn't moved forward as he was an excellent coach and the best pundit in the country once upon a time.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Buer wrote: »

I wouldn't bat an eyelid at anything Keith Wood says. He's a dinosaur in the professional game and retired for 13 years. He was an outspoken advocate of Munster going back to a forward dominated game when Rob Penney was trying to bring the team into the modern era.

I always liked Keith Wood but for some reason his work during the World Cup this year made me realise he's a bit out of touch, to put it nicely.

Yeah_Right

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I said this the other day, I don't think for one second Joe Schmidt should be beyond questioning and if people want to find fault or criticise then that's fine but Matt Williams really grinds my gears. His criticism of Schmidt (and was it Payne during the World Cup?) never seems rooted in any kind of reality or at best he simply chooses to ignore the other side of the arguments he puts forward and then acts like the Irish public think it's a crime to say anything negative.

He singled out Payne during the WC for his lack of attacking prowess but didn't bother to mention or acknowledge the fact that he's clearly not there to attack. There are indeed more attack minded centres available for Ireland but Schmidt sticks with Payne because Payne plays the game Schmidt wants him to.

He criticises Schmidt's style of play, we have to be scoring more tries but doesn't bother to acknowledge the fact that England scored a shed load more tries than any of the rest of us last season and we still won the 6 Nations because of our defense.

He says we need to play more like the SH teams if we are to compete with them. He ignores the fact that during the WC we passed more than any other team in the competition, we kicked the exact same number of times as New Zealand did. He ignores the fact that there simply isn't the natural skill set in Ireland to enable us to play like a New Zealand team. We could give it a go and probably end up looking like France, loads of individual flare but ultimately a ridiculous mess as likely to concede a try at any given moment as we are to score one.

Point being, there are legitimate questions to be asked of Joe Schmidt and his Irish team but there are also legitimate answers to be found but people like Matt Williams don't want to hear the answers, they want to throw about the criticism and then everyone should just shut up and agree with him. Actually, he reminds me of a certain type of internet poster. The kind who feels it's fine for them to argue against your point but then gets thick if you try to engage them in conversation.

Also something that made me laugh yesterday was Keith Wood on BBC. They were doing little previews on all the teams and they crossed over to Keith in Paris to ask him about Ireland and were we at the start of a new stage in Irish rugby, or something to that effect. He started talking about the players who are gone, BOD (he's gone a while, people still acting like he's just left) and POC and then he says it's worrying, WORRYING, that Garry Ringrose isn't in the Ireland squad. WORRYING!?! That a kid who hasn't even played a full senior season at his club isn't in the Ireland team. Ridiculous. Some people may be disappointed that he didn't get in the final squad, that's fine, and he does look a promising player but it is beyond ridiculous to imply that it's "worrying" for Irish rugby that he wasn't in the team.

There is so much about this post that I love.

I used to really like Matt Williams as a pundit but over the last year or so he's just been making a lot of ridiculous comments. It's almost like he has decided to take George Hook's role of grumpy old man. I sometimes wonder if he hates NZ so much that he has to criticise them no matter where they play or coach.

aimee1

Yeah_Right wrote: »

There is so much about this post that I love.

I used to really like Matt Williams as a pundit but over the last year or so he's just been making a lot of ridiculous comments. It's almost like he has decided to take George Hook's role of grumpy old man. I sometimes wonder if he hates NZ so much that he has to criticise them no matter where they play or coach.

maybe he is angling for a job at RTE as the grumpy old man beside Pope and Horgan.

kilns

Francis at it again in the Sunday Indo today, worst Irish team in 15 years. Who needs Stephen Jones when we have our own homegrown trolls

wp_rathead

Watching Exeter Chiefs
Really is criminal that Steenson never involved with Irish Squad

jm08

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I always liked Keith Wood but for some reason his work during the World Cup this year made me realise he's a bit out of touch, to put it nicely.

Funny that you say Wood is out of touch - Shane Jennings was saying something similar about Schmidt yesterday.


That’s not how Jennings sees it. For sure there could be some growing pains. New players will need time. But just as importantly, as he sees it, Ireland need to play a new kind of game. If they do, bright days will follow.

“I’d just love our mindset and attitude to go ‘Wait a minute, we’re not the biggest team. Why are we going into collisions when we don’t need to? Let’s be a bit more creative and have an appreciation for space.’


“I know whenever I played, I was as happy as Larry when someone ran at me. I’d be bricking myself if I saw some fella a bit further away from me who had good feet and the option to put a bit of a step on me.


“I genuinely think we have a talented group of players that are capable of playing that kind of game. I don’t know what it’s like in camp, I don’t know what they’re being told, but you would hope that they realise we need to change. Because the World Cup showed we need to change. It didn’t work. If we want to get to World Cup semi-finals, if we want to win more Six Nations championships, I don’t think what we’ve done in the past will get us over the line. Because other teams have changed. The opposition coaching has changed.”

mfceiling

Good point on the coaches doing what they are good at and the pundits shouting out soundbites from a studio.

Case in point - Gary Neville. Great pundit and very detailed with his analysis. How's his management career going?? Yeah...

.ak

Why do your hate yourselves so much? No Kidney vs Schmidt discussion please... Now repeat after me... Wusaaaaa... Wusaaaa..

ionadnapokot

Buer wrote: »

I wouldn't bat an eyelid at anything Keith Wood says. He's a dinosaur in the professional game and retired for 13 years. He was an outspoken advocate of Munster going back to a forward dominated game when Rob Penney was trying to bring the team into the modern era.

Those who can, coach. Those who can't, commentate. There's a good reason why Messrs Wood, Ward, Guscott, Hook etc. are sitting in studios whilst the likes of Schmidt and O'Shea have been successful coaches for years.

As for Williams, he's a dinosaur now too who hasn't been able to adjust to the modern game in terms of the wholesale changes we've seen tactically but he still has a very decent eye for analysis and patterns. It's a shame he hasn't moved forward as he was an excellent coach and the best pundit in the country once upon a time.

Pedantic note: Conor O'Shea is a director of rugby. I believe he does very little coaching.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

jm08 wrote: »

Funny that you say Wood is out of touch - Shane Jennings was saying something similar about Schmidt yesterday.


That’s not how Jennings sees it. For sure there could be some growing pains. New players will need time. But just as importantly, as he sees it, Ireland need to play a new kind of game. If they do, bright days will follow.

“I’d just love our mindset and attitude to go ‘Wait a minute, we’re not the biggest team. Why are we going into collisions when we don’t need to? Let’s be a bit more creative and have an appreciation for space.’


“I know whenever I played, I was as happy as Larry when someone ran at me. I’d be bricking myself if I saw some fella a bit further away from me who had good feet and the option to put a bit of a step on me.


“I genuinely think we have a talented group of players that are capable of playing that kind of game. I don’t know what it’s like in camp, I don’t know what they’re being told, but you would hope that they realise we need to change. Because the World Cup showed we need to change. It didn’t work. If we want to get to World Cup semi-finals, if we want to win more Six Nations championships, I don’t think what we’ve done in the past will get us over the line. Because other teams have changed. The opposition coaching has changed.”

Saying Woods is out of touch is not at all the same thing as Jennings saying Schmidt is out of touch.

The point about other teams changing what they do has some validity to it except for the fact Wales have been playing Warren Ball for 7 years now. Early days but England looked like exactly the same team yesterday albeit with slightly improved set pieces. France looked worse than they did in the World Cup, which I wouldn't have thought possible and Italy, although they looked a little better, still couldn't close it out. Scotland same as Italy really.

As for the World Cup and SH teams, New Zealand are New Zealand. Cheika has gotten Autralia back to where they used to be by knocking some heads together, I don't think they're doing anything particularity different in terms of play from what they've always done. South Africa are battering rams as they have been for years and lets be honest, they didn't really have a great WC or RC last year. Argentina have been a long term work in progress and are seeing some results now, but it's been an overhaul and it's taken years to get there.

So, I have to ask, what exactly Shane Jennings thinks these other coaches are doing differently and why, when we're back to back 6 Nations champions, he thinks we're the ones that need to change?

Like I said about Williams, it's fine if you don't agree with everything Schmidt does, it's fine to question whatever aspects of it you want to BUT when there are legitimate answers to those questions you should have the decency to acknowledge them. I said it a few days ago too, a lot of this "we need to play more open rugby" reads like people who just really enjoy watching open rugby, and that's fine, it's a lot of fun to see a team throw the ball around and to see 10 tries in a game and all of that stuff but if that's the reason you want to see Ireland play that kind of rugby at least be honest and just say it. You (the pundit) want Schmidt to throw away whatever long term plan he's been working on for the past 2 years and have his players play a style of rugby they do not have the skill set for just because SH teams are "more fun" to watch.

Pink Fairy

Saying Wood is out of touch is just showing that certain posters don't agree with what he has to say....nothing more. I have to laugh at some of the well informed posts on here that throw scorn on opinions of seasoned pros and coaches beacuse it doesn't fit their armchair narrative.... Really.... Nobody actually cares what you think ya lúders

awec

.ak wrote: »

Why do your hate yourselves so much? No Kidney vs Schmidt discussion please... Now repeat after me... Wusaaaaa... Wusaaaa..

Wusaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

former total

kilns wrote: »

Francis at it again in the Sunday Indo today, worst Irish team in 15 years. Who needs Stephen Jones when we have our own homegrown trolls

What if he's right?

I'd struggle to think of a weaker XV we've sent out for a Six Nations game in recent years and key players are in questionable form.

I still think we'll win, BTW.

Pink Fairy

former total wrote: »

What if he's right?

I'd struggle to think of a weaker XV we've sent out for a Six Nations game in recent years and key players are in questionable form.

I still think we'll win, BTW.

I suppose on the law of averages hes due one....a broken clock and all that......but hopefully, not today

Teferi

jm08 wrote: »

Funny that you say Wood is out of touch - Shane Jennings was saying something similar about Schmidt yesterday.

That's not what Jennings is saying at all. On any level. In any way. At all. Ever. No.


Just No. You're reaching further than Stretch Armstrong and you know it.

kilns

former total wrote: »

What if he's right?

I'd struggle to think of a weaker XV we've sent out for a Six Nations game in recent years and key players are in questionable form.

I still think we'll win, BTW.

Many teams during the Kidney era were weaker I would say. He is a pure troll who is just hoping they under perform so he can be the one who called it

Rightwing

kilns wrote: »

Many teams during the Kidney era were weaker I would say. He is a pure troll who is just hoping they under perform so he can be the one who called it

But others may agree with him, myself included. We've had good teams over the last 15 years, so being the weakest (if that is the case) doesn't mean they are bad.

salmocab

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I said this the other day, I don't think for one second Joe Schmidt should be beyond questioning and if people want to find fault or criticise then that's fine but Matt Williams really grinds my gears. His criticism of Schmidt (and was it Payne during the World Cup?) never seems rooted in any kind of reality or at best he simply chooses to ignore the other side of the arguments he puts forward and then acts like the Irish public think it's a crime to say anything negative.

He singled out Payne during the WC for his lack of attacking prowess but didn't bother to mention or acknowledge the fact that he's clearly not there to attack. There are indeed more attack minded centres available for Ireland but Schmidt sticks with Payne because Payne plays the game Schmidt wants him to.

He criticises Schmidt's style of play, we have to be scoring more tries but doesn't bother to acknowledge the fact that England scored a shed load more tries than any of the rest of us last season and we still won the 6 Nations because of our defense.

He says we need to play more like the SH teams if we are to compete with them. He ignores the fact that during the WC we passed more than any other team in the competition, we kicked the exact same number of times as New Zealand did. He ignores the fact that there simply isn't the natural skill set in Ireland to enable us to play like a New Zealand team. We could give it a go and probably end up looking like France, loads of individual flare but ultimately a ridiculous mess as likely to concede a try at any given moment as we are to score one.

Point being, there are legitimate questions to be asked of Joe Schmidt and his Irish team but there are also legitimate answers to be found but people like Matt Williams don't want to hear the answers, they want to throw about the criticism and then everyone should just shut up and agree with him. Actually, he reminds me of a certain type of internet poster. The kind who feels it's fine for them to argue against your point but then gets thick if you try to engage them in conversation.

Also something that made me laugh yesterday was Keith Wood on BBC. They were doing little previews on all the teams and they crossed over to Keith in Paris to ask him about Ireland and were we at the start of a new stage in Irish rugby, or something to that effect. He started talking about the players who are gone, BOD (he's gone a while, people still acting like he's just left) and POC and then he says it's worrying, WORRYING, that Garry Ringrose isn't in the Ireland squad. WORRYING!?! That a kid who hasn't even played a full senior season at his club isn't in the Ireland team. Ridiculous. Some people may be disappointed that he didn't get in the final squad, that's fine, and he does look a promising player but it is beyond ridiculous to imply that it's "worrying" for Irish rugby that he wasn't in the team.

this is spot on, the standard of journalism in sport has gone to the dogs. We can look forward to some hack in the Indo tomorrow with his '5 things we learnt' piece, its just poor journalism and an attempt to hide the fact that they can't write coherent well thought out articles. We also have ex players making statements that people instantly think is right just because they are ex players, to the point in fact that someone in either this forum or maybe the Leinster one claimed that Neil Francis knows more about rugby than everyone on the forum combined, Francis is a mildly entertaining read but thats it. Ex players don't necessarily make good pundits and a lot of people around here seem to listen to what they say and then pass it off as their own thoughts.

irishbucsfan

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I said this the other day, I don't think for one second Joe Schmidt should be beyond questioning and if people want to find fault or criticise then that's fine but Matt Williams really grinds my gears. His criticism of Schmidt (and was it Payne during the World Cup?) never seems rooted in any kind of reality or at best he simply chooses to ignore the other side of the arguments he puts forward and then acts like the Irish public think it's a crime to say anything negative.

He singled out Payne during the WC for his lack of attacking prowess but didn't bother to mention or acknowledge the fact that he's clearly not there to attack. There are indeed more attack minded centres available for Ireland but Schmidt sticks with Payne because Payne plays the game Schmidt wants him to.

Francis doesn't know what he's talking about. As Joe said about him on Payne during the world cup:

"Yeah look I think there was a lot of feedback around Jared Payne, mainly because people, a few people who hadn't done their analysis, didn't understand enough about the game to understand what he brought to the game for us and I think the players really spoke about his value, about the value of his communication, his defensive decisiveness, his ability to carry the ball forward, the quality of his passing, his decision making. All those elements that you want in the middle of your backline. I think for the back three he was very much the conduit for the inside three and the backs and his experience across both Southern Hemisphere and Northern Hemisphere competitions allowed him to bring all of that together for us."

Clegg

Luke Marshall and Ultan Dillane were forwards and backs cover for today.

Clegg

So many kicks from Ireland today lads. Right?

Rightwing

We did not deserve to win that one. GS gone already.

Quite impressed with Warburton there, neither team will be happy with result but overall a fair result, and a good game of rugby. Best we've seen from Ireland in a long time. Well done to all concerned.

sydthebeat

Rightwing wrote: »

We did not deserve to win that one.

Sack cloth and self flagellation for you !!

Clegg

O'Donnell did a lot better than I thought he would but we simply must have O'Brien back at 7 if he's fit next weekend.

Zebo did some good things but gives you zero confidence when he's defending. Don't think he's done enough to say he deserves to start if Kearney is back next week.

Some good things from what was a weakened pack. Lots of physicality on display and some decent interchanging with the backs, but we still lack something when it comes to finishing off moves.

Rightwing

sydthebeat wrote: »

Sack cloth and self flagellation for you !!

On the contrary, verp pleased. Thought Wales may have edged, but we played nice rugby, was just a pity we couldnt capitalise on the 13-0. But we deserved our draw.

mfceiling

Rightwing wrote: »

We did not deserve to win that one. GS gone already.

Quite impressed with Warburton there, neither team will be happy with result but overall a fair result, and a good game of rugby. Best we've seen from Ireland in a long time. Well done to all concerned.

Jesus I'd say if we won 50 - 0 you'd moan that we let Wales get 0...

Rightwing

mfceiling wrote: »

Jesus I'd say if we won 50 - 0 you'd moan that we let Wales get 0...

I tend to exclude hypothetical situations from analysis.

But when you score only 3 points over the last 50 minutes, there has to be a sense of disappointment.

mfceiling

Rightwing wrote: »

I tend to exclude hypothetical situations from analysis.

But when you score only 3 points over the last 50 minutes, there has to be a sense of disappointment.

Have you ever posted one positive post about ireland ever? Always doom and gloom - never any constructive comments. How many first choice players were missing today and yet we still put up a good performance? For once in your life try to find the positives - good ball retention, great debut from stander, strong defensively, almost perfect line out.

Rightwing

mfceiling wrote: »

Have you ever posted one positive post about ireland ever? Always doom and gloom - never any constructive comments. How many first choice players were missing today and yet we still put up a good performance? For once in your life try to find the positives - good ball retention, great debut from stander, strong defensively, almost perfect line out.

I was impressed today, I said that. Said we played nice rugby. I felt we were the better team overall, but if you only score 3 points over the last 50-55 minutes, then you cannot argue with the scoreline. This is the reason we didn't deserve to win it. The performance bodes well for the rest of the championship, if we can reproduce it.

Dubron

At some point in the relatively near future I'm very excited to see this:

1. McGrath
2. Best
3. Furlong
4. Toner
5. Henderson
6. Stander
7. SOB
8. Heaslip

You can swap POM for Heaslip and stick Stander at 8 if you like, I'd still be equally as excited!

Thought everyone played well today bar Zebo and White, Best was a bit quiet compared to his usual high standards too IMO.

salmocab

Mc Grath was excellent today as were the back row. Hopefully SOB is back next week TOD was good but without O Brien we were missing something. Would love to see Furlong get a start next week. Id say maybe start Ryan in 2nd row Mc Carthy did okay but not enough to be certain of keeping his jersey.

Post Mortem:

Great game, really intense and very physical.

Let's dispel a few notions here. No one had bad games, no one did nor could because Wales were excellent and we kept them to a draw.

Honestly, Wales probably overall the better team by a shade in that they seemed to have longer periods of control in the last 50 minutes.

However, we were that little bit better in attack and defensively we were incredible.

Earls, Zebo and McCarthy getting criticism and I think it's all wrong. Earls had a good game, was monstrous in close engagements which is exactly what you want against Wales. He had one or two poor moments but overall I thought he had a tidy, aggressive efficient game. Actually, he had a Dave Kearney sort of game, which is ironic, because I often think Earls can be a bit headless which is sorta what Dave was when he came on.

McCarthy worked very hard, was struggling with the pace but did us a job and should be commended for it. Nothing flash but very importantly he won his collisions and bar being put on his back once by Faletau he very importantly gave virtually no gain line to the Welsh.

Zebo was good in attack and solid in defense but lets not go bashing him for not being Rob Kearney. In an incredibly tough game against a really pumped up Welsh team he stood up and did a good job for us. It's a hard thing to do to play out of position at the highest level and he deserves a lot of credit.

Sexton and Murray both excellent. Sexton looks like he hyper-extended one of the muscles in or around his neck, should be fine after a few days. Murray was top drawer and took his try well, was a big leader for us on the pitch.

Front row all good, McGrath is going to have a good sleep tonight, you will rarely if ever see a front rower do that level of work in the loose. Lions starter in my opinion.

White had an overall positive game, Best was a bit quiet but throwing was quality.

Stander was incredible in the first half and despite looking shagged was resilient enough to close out the game. Tommy went well and gained parity against the Welsh back row.

Last but not least. How is the entire forum not completely splooging over Heaslip. Where else could he have been? What more could he have done. Jesus what a performance, every time I thought we were in trouble, Heaslip showed up. I'm glad Stander had such a good game if it in some way drove Heaslips performance because he was a titan.

Contrary to popular opinion, I thought England were very good yesterday and are going to be a nightmare in Twickers. Very interesting 6 nations shaping up.

Really enjoyable weekend of rugby, would love a little less poison and a little more joy on here before next weekend. It's been borderline unbearable the last week or so and the world cup flicked a switch on here that has made it a much more toxic environment. Let's be happy with a good performance despite massive injury and with players coming back we should be right in the mix.

davegrohl48

Was that the best Irish backrower performance in years today from Stander? He has the speed of a back with the power and size of a forward. Quite good handling too.

davegrohl48

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Was that the best Irish backrower performance in years today from Stander? He has the speed of a back with the power and size of a forward. Quite good handling too.

It was a very good back row performance, but I wouldn't even consider it the best back row performance from the match.

Heaslip and Faletau were both imperious. Stander got his baptism and was all over it like a pro, but he wasn't the best back row on display.

Despite all this, Stander showed an awful lot of potential. Stander, O'Brien, Heaslip could be absolutely world beating the next few years.

vienne86

I feel sorry for Marmion not getting a cap today, but there was no way Murray could be taken off. I hope Marmion is in the 23 again next week.

aimee1

think Earls is out next week and assuming RK and SOB are back would like to see


McGrath, Best, Furlong, Toner, McCarthy, CJ, SOB, Heaslip
Murray, Sexton, Zebo, Henshaw, Payne, Trimble, RK

thomond2006

aimee1 wrote: »

think Earls is out next week and assuming RK and SOB are back would like to see


McGrath, Best, Furlong, Toner, McCarthy, CJ, SOB, Heaslip
Murray, Sexton, Zebo, Henshaw, Payne, Trimble, RK

Ryan had a good outing today off the bench, he should come in for McCarthy. I'd nearly push for Dillane on the bench ahead of McCarthy.

Clegg

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Was that the best Irish backrower performance in years today from Stander? He has the speed of a back with the power and size of a forward. Quite good handling too.

Depends on what you cinsider years to be, but for me the best performance I've seen from a backrow was SoB against New Zealand in 2013. And for me Stander wasn't even the best Irish backrow out there today. Heaslip had a stormer and led the defensive effort along with Jack McGrath.

vienne86

aimee1 wrote: »

think Earls is out next week and assuming RK and SOB are back would like to see


McGrath, Best, Furlong, Toner, McCarthy, CJ, SOB, Heaslip
Murray, Sexton, Zebo, Henshaw, Payne, Trimble, RK

I'd be very happy with that team.

aimee1

thomond2006 wrote: »

Ryan had a good outing today off the bench, he should come in for McCarthy.

possibly, but i think there was good reason why Ryan benched today and think they might be the same for next week.

Stheno

Heaslip, Stander, Best, Sexton, and Murray the standouts for me today.

Trimble and Toner also stood out for tackles/deflections

Thought overall it was very positive.

vienne86

aimee1 wrote: »

possibly, but i think there was good reason why Ryan benched today and think they might be the same for next week.

I think Ryan would be a better impact sub than McCarthy.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

vienne86 wrote: »

I feel sorry for Marmion not getting a cap today, but there was no way Murray could be taken off. I hope Marmion is in the 23 again next week.

Not sure any of the backs would have got a look in off the bench today if it wasn't for injuries.

phog

vienne86 wrote: »

I think Ryan would be a better impact sub than McCarthy.

Normally I'd agree with this kind of thought process and I think there one of the reasons why McCarthy started today but we need to be beating the French early to introduce doubts in the minds of the team and fans. If we let the French take a lead I don't think we can chase the game. Today, we couldn't even hold the lead.

irishbucsfan

I don't think we'll see too many changes. We've heard from coaches that it's better to build momentum with the team. I'd like to see Ryan come in but I'm not even sure we'll see that. I'd guess we'll see

McGrath, Best, White, McCarthy, Toner, Stander, SOB, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, Kearney, Henshaw, Payne, Trimble, Kearney

And that's a damn fine team. Weak in the tight five again but the addition of SOB to that back row is mouth watering.