Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

CMOTDibbler

MJohnston wrote: »

Very likely it was that actually - RTE had a very close up and clear shot of him coming off and he was doing that the whole way. Ironically until Best came over and slapped him on the back!

Actually Best gave him a big man hug and I was wincing for Sexton.

Zzippy

Deleted User wrote: »

It was quite innovative of Ulster Rugby to transform their Academy into a Centres Only Academy.

Bold I'd say!

I'm paraphrasing, but I think it was Awec who coined the phrase "Not an academy, a centres of excellence"

Utah_Saint

MJohnston wrote: »

How much has Rory Scholes played at full back? I don't think I've ever seen it, but Ulster list it as one of his positions

tbh i haven't seen him play there. maybe awec or bilston can answer this one?

but...Scholes looks like a serious talent. Almost like a trimble/Bowe hybrid...

errlloyd

errlloyd wrote: »

Three cracked vertebrae, fit less than a month later.

(touch wood it continues)

I'll never forget that. Heaslip breaks his back, he misses one match. Around the same time Trimble stubs his toe, out for almost a year.

flangemeistro

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'll never forget that. Heaslip breaks his back, he misses one match. Around the same time Trimble stubs his toe, out for almost a year.

Also Neymar suffered the same break a few months previous and was ruled out for 6 months if I remember correctly.

awec

Utah_Saint wrote: »

tbh i haven't seen him play there. maybe awec or bilston can answer this one?

but...Scholes looks like a serious talent. Almost like a trimble/Bowe hybrid...

I don't remember Scholes ever playing 15, but I guess he would be similar to Gilroy in that position (can do a job against the pro 12 muck cloggers).

aimee1

flangemeistro wrote: »

Also Neymar suffered the same break a few months previous and was ruled out for 6 months if I remember correctly.

world cup 2014 quarter final against colombia.

the baby bull elephant

Pretty sure Scholes played a game or two at 15 in the u20s, kinda always felt he was suited to it and might end up there.

Buer

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

Pretty sure Scholes played a game or two at 15 in the u20s, kinda always felt he was suited to it and might end up there.

Correct. Featured there a few times for the U20, Irish Schools and, more recently, has played there in the AIL.

rsh118

Having had time to reflect, the performance of Stander put me in mind of Stevie Ferris, particularly the mobility in fixing Tipuric on the try line for Murray's score.

Time for him to go practise those career shortening hits...

On a serious note though, I liked what Zebo brought to the game. Yes he can be headless after making the line break, but I feel like that's experience under his belt which will help him make better decisions in future.

galwaylad14

I thought Ireland played quiet well and I think it would be madness making 5 changes for next week. That's 1/3rd of the team dropped after what was a very decent performance.

If O'Brien is fit then he obviously has to play alright so I'd imagine he'll come in for O'Donnell. Was I the only one that thought Zebo did fine on Sunday? Think a few here might have gone in with pre-conceived notions about him and just see what they want to see.

Since Earls is injured and Kearney likely to be back I'd probably go with Kearney at full back and shift Zebo on to the wing. Wouldn't make any other changes I think.

Some people here want Mike Mc dropped, were ye watching the game? He was very good. If Ross is fit then I'd have him on the bench and he can replace White after 60 minutes.

galwaylad14

I thought Ireland played quiet well and I think it would be madness making 5 changes for next week. That's 1/3rd of the team dropped after what was a very decent performance.

If O'Brien is fit then he obviously has to play alright so I'd imagine he'll come in for O'Donnell. Was I the only one that thought Zebo did fine on Sunday? Think a few here might have gone in with pre-conceived notions about him and just see what they want to see.

Since Earls is injured and Kearney likely to be back I'd probably go with Kearney at full back and shift Zebo on to the wing. Wouldn't make any other changes I think.

Some people here want Mike Mc dropped, were ye watching the game? He was very good. If Ross is fit then I'd have him on the bench and he can replace White after 60 minutes.

captbarnacles

Ireland played very well imo too. When we went 13-0 up we really had complete control of the game. Very disappointing to concede a try almost directly from a restart.

CMOTDibbler

captbarnacles wrote: »

Ireland played very well imo too. When we went 13-0 up we really had complete control of the game. Very disappointing to concede a try almost directly from a restart.

Unlucky as much as disappointing. There was always a chance that Wales were going to get a scrum near our line at some stage, it was just unfortunate that it happened when it did. If they'd gone in at half time 13-0 down, it might have been a different story.

What was remarkable was how few penalties were given or conceded. 13 penalties in total is a very low number for a game like that where almost 350 tackles were made. Unbelievable discipine from both sides.

ClanofLams

galwaylad14 wrote: »

I thought Was I the only one that thought Zebo did fine on Sunday? Think a few here might have Gone in with pre-conceived notions about him and just see what they want.
Some people here want

Zeno had a bad game. Off the top of my head he lost an aerial challenge to Dan Biggar where he competed half heartedly, made a dreadful mistake kicking out on the full when ball had been brought back into 22 aswell as some other poor kicks, was caught out of position a few times including when Trimble had to put the ball down for scrum 5 out which led to Welsh try.

It's not really his fault to be fair, he's a winger not a full back. How many professional games has he played at 15, probably less than 10? Can't just throw a lad into that position at six nations level and expect him to be up to standard.

Zzippy

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll never forget that. Heaslip breaks his back, he misses one match. Around the same time Trimble stubs his toe, out for almost a year.

A bit disingenuous, comparing apples and oranges. He had a fracure of the spinuous process, which is the part of the bone protruding from the actual backbone, heals relatively quickly, is not essential to spinal function and is far different from a compression fracture of the vertebra, which is far more serious, and what you could call a broken back.
Trimble broke a bone which is apparently difficult to heal and more importantly is weight bearing, so it's kind of important. Saying he "stubbed his toe" is not very fair to him.

Zzippy

Zzippy wrote: »

A bit disingenuous, comparing apples and oranges. He had a fracure of the spinuous process, which is the part of the bone protruding from the actual backbone, heals relatively quickly, is not essential to spinal function and is far different from a compression fracture of the vertebra, which is far more serious, and what you could call a broken back.
Trimble broke a bone which is apparently difficult to heal and more importantly is weight bearing, so it's kind of important. Saying he "stubbed his toe" is not very fair to him.

ah jaysis, there's no need to ruin a story with the truth.

Fun sponge. :pac:

Buer

I think that the returning players (SOB and RK, if available) will be the only changes. Ryan might get in but I think Schmidt must be happy enough with McCarthy if he left him on until the 63rd minute.

I don't think McCarthy was great. He was a little bit anonymous around the part in terms of making his power felt. I'd have expected him to be a bit more aggressive off the defensive line which is his forte. Ryan came in and showed as much in his cameo as McCarthy had done and I'd be more comfortable with Ryan as a line out jumper. If our scrum is still a concern, McCarthy will retain his spot.

Zebo mixed some really good moments with a number of errors in terms of bread and butter full back play. Big kick out on the full, completely ran past a catcher on the touchline, beaten in the air by smaller players (he really does not boss the back field in aerial terms) and some creaking positional play were the obvious issues. He was at sea for the cross kick that nearly led to a try which was a carbon copy of England's try against him in the RWC warm up when he was caught scrambling across, trying to cover too much, too late.

Conversely, he picked a beautiful line early on, coming back against play and nearly broke through just over halfway. He also showed great awareness and strength to make that break from deep in the second half. He has a willingness to get on the ball around the field and create whether it's on the wing or even stepping in at outhalf if required. He's an enigmatic player and is undoubtedly one of the most potent weapons Ireland has but he comes with a very significant risk and downside. I can't see him being in our 23 when all are available which is fair enough on current form.

TOD went well. Worked his socks off and wasn't found wanting. He doesn't have that extra gear that others have so won't ever really be more than a stop gap for the side when the likes of SOB is injured but it was heartening to see him so busy and looking comfortable at this level.

lunarhog

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Unlucky as much as disappointing. There was always a chance that Wales were going to get a scrum near our line at some stage, it was just unfortunate that it happened when it did. If they'd gone in at half time 13-0 down, it might have been a different story.

What was remarkable was how few penalties were given or conceded. 13 penalties in total is a very low number for a game like that where almost 350 tackles were made. Unbelievable discipine from both sides.

Yes, that stood out for me. For the opening match of the 6 nations as well, there were a noticeable lack of handling errors and knock ons too. Mercifully few scrums and not that much kicking. Lots of absorbing phase play which didn't always go anywhere but an enjoyable tussle nonetheless. Ireland were on top for about 30, Wales for the final 50 so I think we are lucky to get a draw tbh. A lot to build on and with players coming back from injury the France and England tests are intriguing!

aimee1

galwaylad14 wrote: »

I thought Ireland played quiet well and I think it would be madness making 5 changes for next week. That's 1/3rd of the team dropped after what was a very decent performance.

Earls should be out. I think he was out cold for a few seconds.

ToD is not going to be picked ahead of SoB if he is fit, same with RK/Zebo

If we have better options at TH we should use them.

Why can't Zebo show the same attacking flair from the wing? He was great with the ball in hand.

sydthebeat

Deleted User wrote: »

Why can't Zebo show the same attacking flair from the wing? He was great with the ball in hand.

his best impact was hitting the line quite late after a few phases and ghosting through gaps.... its probably his best skill. Its easier do that from 15 than from wing unless hes hitting it from the blind side.. and to be fair he does that to great effect as well.

CMOTDibbler

aimee1 wrote: »

Earls should be out. I think he was out cold for a few seconds.

ToD is not going to be picked ahead of SoB if he is fit, same with RK/Zebo

If we have better options at TH we should use them.

I'm not sure there's much to blame Nathan White for. Rob Evans was binding short and pulling him down. He was warned about it but continued and got away with it. He was also boring in and across White and never seemed to bind square. Another ref might've pinged him into honesty but Garces is renowned for reffing the scrum his own way. 'Play the ref' is no use to you in those circumstances.

molloyjh

Buer wrote: »

I think that the returning players (SOB and RK, if available) will be the only changes. Ryan might get in but I think Schmidt must be happy enough with McCarthy if he left him on until the 63rd minute.

I don't think McCarthy was great. He was a little bit anonymous around the part in terms of making his power felt. I'd have expected him to be a bit more aggressive off the defensive line which is his forte. Ryan came in and showed as much in his cameo as McCarthy had done and I'd be more comfortable with Ryan as a line out jumper. If our scrum is still a concern, McCarthy will retain his spot.

Zebo mixed some really good moments with a number of errors in terms of bread and butter full back play. Big kick out on the full, completely ran past a catcher on the touchline, beaten in the air by smaller players (he really does not boss the back field in aerial terms) and some creaking positional play were the obvious issues. He was at sea for the cross kick that nearly led to a try which was a carbon copy of England's try against him in the RWC warm up when he was caught scrambling across, trying to cover too much, too late.

Conversely, he picked a beautiful line early on, coming back against play and nearly broke through just over halfway. He also showed great awareness and strength to make that break from deep in the second half. He has a willingness to get on the ball around the field and create whether it's on the wing or even stepping in at outhalf if required. He's an enigmatic player and is undoubtedly one of the most potent weapons Ireland has but he comes with a very significant risk and downside. I can't see him being in our 23 when all are available which is fair enough on current form.

TOD went well. Worked his socks off and wasn't found wanting. He doesn't have that extra gear that others have so won't ever really be more than a stop gap for the side when the likes of SOB is injured but it was heartening to see him so busy and looking comfortable at this level.

Yeah I think this sums up Zebos game yesterday perfectly. A lot of good work with ball in hand but a lot of the basics of FB play were missing. As a winger playing FB it's hard to be overly critical of him personally, but I do think we need to start looking at other options soon.

aimee1

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I'm not sure there's much to blame Nathan White for. Rob Evans was binding short and pulling him down. He was warned about it but continued and got away with it. He was also boring in and across White and never seemed to bind square. Another ref might've pinged him into honesty but Garces is renowned for reffing the scrum his own way. 'Play the ref' is no use to you in those circumstances.

I think furlong offers more around the park so might be an option to consider but i expect White to start next saturday.

Mr Tickle

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

....Garces is renowned for reffing the scrum his own way. 'Play the ref' is no use to you in those circumstances.

Maybe someone more enlightened out there can correct me but did he have his own unique take on the choke tackle too? It seemed to take 79 minutes before he called a maul.

And there were a few cases of Welsh men holding on on the ground preventing turnovers. I normally wouldn't be one to go in for criticising a ref but it seemed to be at least partially responsible for our lack of possession in the second half.

sydthebeat

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Maybe someone more enlightened out there can correct me but did he have his own unique take on the choke tackle too? It seemed to take 79 minutes before he called a maul.

And there were a few cases of Welsh men holding on on the ground preventing turnovers. I normally wouldn't be one to go in for criticising a ref but it seemed to be at least partially responsible for our lack of possession in the second half.

it did seem that he was more focused on looking for the tackled player get a knee to ground than he was with what numbers had joined the choke tackle.

I think wales were clever in their reluctance to throw numbers to teh choke, so in some cases it was 3 irish players holding up teh ball carrier but no other wales player joined.. so technically thats not a maul.

there were a couple of cases though where he did get it wrong. id say warburton was in his ear about it before and during teh game

molloyjh

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Maybe someone more enlightened out there can correct me but did he have his own unique take on the choke tackle too? It seemed to take 79 minutes before he called a maul.

And there were a few cases of Welsh men holding on on the ground preventing turnovers. I normally wouldn't be one to go in for criticising a ref but it seemed to be at least partially responsible for our lack of possession in the second half.

In terms of the maul I think the Welsh were very good at getting to ground quickly. There was one example where a lot of people were screaming for the maul in the crowd but the carrier clearly had both knees on the ground, meaning it was just a tackle.

I think the Welsh did a very good job at their rucks. They often got men over the ball as the player was going to ground which prevented us getting into a position to challenge for the ball. That said they did also enter their rucks from the side a lot. It seems there are plenty of refs who don't mind that. Garces certainly isn't the only one. But it annoys me no end because it is far easier to clear a player out that way than coming through the gate. That gave the attacking team an advantage. But then it wasn't as if the Welsh were the only ones to benefit from that.

Overall I thought Garces was fine. I'd a few quibbles, but nothing major. I do think Evans bore in a lot and got away with a fair bit there, but then anyone expecting to see perfect scum officiating is kidding themselves. First because they probably don't know themselves what is really going on so can't judge how good the ref is, but second because the ref is a human being who will make mistakes (and has a totally different vantage point than the rest of us).

former total

His refereeing of the choke tackle was correct. Could be that the Welsh had been working on a way to counter it.

MJohnston

By the way, was it just me noticed that Madigan injured himself running into one of the posts? It was during Wales' drop goal attempt

CMOTDibbler

former total wrote: »

His refereeing of the choke tackle was correct. Could be that the Welsh had been working on a way to counter it.

He was correct the way he reffed those. I know this is never going to happen but technically it's a maul the instant another attacking player joins. Refs always seem to wait an arbitrary number of seconds before calling it.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

MJohnston wrote: »

By the way, was it just me noticed that Madigan injured himself running into one of the posts? It was during Wales' drop goal attempt

I saw him getting treatment, he was kneeling down and it looked like they were pouring water in his face.... I know that sounds weird but that's what it looked like. He was rubbing his eyes too... my first thought was he'd lost a contact

Assuming Earls is out and our starting wing options are Kearney, Trimble and Zebo, which one is best equipped to deal with that monster 7s payer France are using on the wing now?

Obviously it comes from playing 7s but he looks to go into contact and offload more than pass, if that makes sense, so it could be easy enough to take advantage of that. Looked like a lot of the French players weren't sure of what he was doing half the time and quite a few times he'd make a great run and still end up losing the ball. Of course someone has to actually be able to stop him in order for that to happen.

Zzippy

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I saw him getting treatment, he was kneeling down and it looked like they were pouring water in his face.... I know that sounds weird but that's what it looked like. He was rubbing his eyes too... my first thought was he'd lost a contact

Assuming Earls is out and our starting wing options are Kearney, Trimble and Zebo, which one is best equipped to deal with that monster 7s payer France are using on the wing now?

Obviously it comes from playing 7s but he looks to go into contact and offload more than pass, if that makes sense, so it could be easy enough to take advantage of that. Looked like a lot of the French players weren't sure of what he was doing half the time and quite a few times he'd make a great run and still end up losing the ball. Of course someone has to actually be able to stop him in order for that to happen.

Pick up the phone, Joe...

MJohnston

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I saw him getting treatment, he was kneeling down and it looked like they were pouring water in his face.... I know that sounds weird but that's what it looked like. He was rubbing his eyes too... my first thought was he'd lost a contact

Actually it wasn't Madigan at all, nevermind me! Although going to look for it, there was a moment around 76 minutes where Murray collected a grubber from Wales, was immediately pounded on a ruck formed. There seemed to be zero clue who should be acting as scrum half in that occasion, and there was a very long wait before Furlong came along and did it himself. Thats the kind of thing you'd hope they'd look to eliminate

Quint2010

Was thinking about the short turnaround when thinking about changes in terms of Paris. Particularly the likes of McCarthy. Don't think we are losing too much by bringing a fresher Ryan in (still mystified as to why McCarthy was packing down on the loose head side in our scrum but anyway) and Ryan is a better line out option both on our ball and challenging for the oppositions. SOB will obviously return for TOD if he is fit. But the one man we need back is Mike Ross. Our scrum directly gave away that try and was going backwards at a rate of noughts. Kearney to come back in at FB too with maybe Zebo on the wing-although wouldnt be surprised to see Dave Kearney start.

CMOTDibbler

Quint2010 wrote: »

Was thinking about the short turnaround when thinking about changes in terms of Paris. Particularly the likes of McCarthy. Don't think we are losing too much by bringing a fresher Ryan in (still mystified as to why McCarthy was packing down on the loose head side in our scrum but anyway) and Ryan is a better line out option both on our ball and challenging for the oppositions. SOB will obviously return for TOD if he is fit. But the one man we need back is Mike Ross. Our scrum directly gave away that try and was going backwards at a rate of noughts. Kearney to come back in at FB too with maybe Zebo on the wing-although wouldnt be surprised to see Dave Kearney start.

Depending on who's fit and who'd not, but you'd expect both SOB and Kearney to be back and there's a possibility of Cian Healy and Mike Ross. Switching around McCarthy and Ryan would also help and if Dave K starts instead of Earls, Zebo would be on the bench.

btw, you're clearly knot a sailor :pac:

Quint2010

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Depending on who's fit and who'd not, but you'd expect both SOB and Kearney to be back and there's a possibility of Cian Healy and Mike Ross. Switching around McCarthy and Ryan would also help and if Dave K starts instead of Earls, Zebo would be on the bench.

btw, you're clearly knot a sailor :pac:

Yeah I'd change it but that ship has sailed...

Mahatma Geansai

Hopefully Earls doesn't miss too much rugby. Concussion issues are starting to become an issue for him.

I thought he had a brilliant game yesterday. His workrate and execution at the ruck is a level beyond any of our other backs and his defense was brilliant. Considering that he is also a level beyond anyone else on the island with ball in hand, he is really a complete player.

Even though the stats don't show it, I thought Trimble had a very good defensive game also. His pace does appear to be an issue though. He should have done better in the lead up to the first try and couldn't beat a prop on the outside.

Buer

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

His execution at the ruck is a level beyond any of our other backs.

Sort of ironic given he knocked himself out cold at a ruck!

irishbucsfan

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Hopefully Earls doesn't miss too much rugby. Concussion issues are starting to become an issue for him.

I think him and Sexton open themselves up to it in the way they play, so much time spent in the tight and flying into tackles. Not sure if it'll ever go away for either of them, it does worry me.

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

I thought he had a brilliant game yesterday. His workrate and execution at the ruck is a level beyond any of our other backs and his defense was brilliant. Considering that he is also a level beyond anyone else on the island with ball in hand, he is really a complete player.

Even though the stats don't show it, I thought Trimble had a very good defensive game also. His pace does appear to be an issue though. He should have done better in the lead up to the first try and couldn't beat a prop on the outside.

Robbie Henshaw says no

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think him and Sexton open themselves up to it in the way they play, so much time spent in the tight and flying into tackles. Not sure if it'll ever go away for either of them, it does worry me.

The incident where it looks like Sexton got hurt was another silly looking tackle for him. It looked like he was going face on to tackle and tried to tuck his head between his legs to get it out of the way and got whacked on the back of the head/neck/shoulders.

BoardsMember

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think him and Sexton open themselves up to it in the way they play, so much time spent in the tight and flying into tackles. Not sure if it'll ever go away for either of them, it does worry me.



Robbie Henshaw says no

As do Jared Payne and Andre Trimble. Ok, he's better than Zebo, so damn him with faint praise if you want....

I thought Murray was excellent yesterday, as good a game as he's had in green maybe. McGrath to keep going for the 80 too was some effort.

Zzippy

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Hopefully Earls doesn't miss too much rugby. Concussion issues are starting to become an issue for him.

I thought he had a brilliant game yesterday. His workrate and execution at the ruck is a level beyond any of our other backs and his defense was brilliant. Considering that he is also a level beyond anyone else on the island with ball in hand, he is really a complete player.

Even though the stats don't show it, I thought Trimble had a very good defensive game also. His pace does appear to be an issue though. He should have done better in the lead up to the first try and couldn't beat a prop on the outside.

Trimble was somewhat at fault for conceding the scrum, but he got no help from his fullback, who should have been a lot closer to the action and in a position to help out. Earls isn't that good by the way - he's very good but not "a level beyond" anyone else on the island.

aimee1

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Hopefully Earls doesn't miss too much rugby. Concussion issues are starting to become an issue for him.

Wales in august - Stretchered off IIRC after copping a knee to the head trying to tackle North

Romania in September he needed HIA

Embra in November he took a heavy blow to the head in the last minute

Leinster in Thomond he was stretchered off

Yesterday - I think he was out cold for a few seconds



He needs to take a bit of a break.

Clearlier

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Hopefully Earls doesn't miss too much rugby. Concussion issues are starting to become an issue for him.

I thought he had a brilliant game yesterday. His workrate and execution at the ruck is a level beyond any of our other backs and his defense was brilliant. Considering that he is also a level beyond anyone else on the island with ball in hand, he is really a complete player.

Even though the stats don't show it, I thought Trimble had a very good defensive game also. His pace does appear to be an issue though. He should have done better in the lead up to the first try and couldn't beat a prop on the outside.

Earls' biggest weakness is his defensive positioning. He backs his pace too much for me and hangs back just a tiny bit which gives the attacking player a tiny bit of extra time/space which is just terrifying to watch. It didn't cost us much yesterday thankfully.

BoardsMember wrote: »

I thought Murray was excellent yesterday, as good a game as he's had in green maybe. McGrath to keep going for the 80 too was some effort.

He had some very good moments but I wonder if he couldn't be just a little bit fitter. Maybe it was more a reflection of the overall team than him but his influence seemed to me to diminish as the game went on.

.ak

My worry is how easily he's being knocked out now. I watched him join the ruck and I could tell straight away he was out cold and he barely made contact with anyone. It looked like he was plugged out of the matrix.

.ak

I really enjoyed henshaw and Payne together. They're both such tidy footballers. Unfortunately Roberts really did his home work and studied them well, when henshaw became the marked man we looked to get the ball to Payne but they read it well, unfortunately as we were bitterly close to getting some really nice moves to play off in midfield.

Zzippy

Anyone think some of the tackling yesterday was a bit borderline? i.e. chop tackles. Noticed quite a few, on Henshaw especially, where the man in possession was flipped over the tackler - tackled quite low with no attempt to wrap the arms. Thought Garces could have looked at a few of them...

Mr Tickle

Zzippy wrote: »

Anyone think some of the tackling yesterday was a bit borderline? i.e. chop tackles. Noticed quite a few, on Henshaw especially, where the man in possession was flipped over the tackler - tackled quite low with no attempt to wrap the arms. Thought Garces could have looked at a few of them...

i think there were two like that on henshaw in the welsh 22. it was hard to tell if it was just the speed that he was hitting them or if they could have done more to hold him.

errlloyd

Robbie Henshaw is the player I look to for something special out there. His precision touch kick to the corner was an example of good decision, well executed at the right time.