Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

jm08

Deleted User wrote: »

Didn't realise he has played outside Tommy O'Donnell that many times...!

I bet he was playing outside Shane Jennings

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

former total wrote: »

Looks like Zebo sat it out too...

It's hard to tell because some of them are so wrapped up. Trimble is in a full tracksuit too. Can't see him in group shots.

bilston

Darragh Fanning might be getting a call up at this rate

It was a very bruising game on Sunday. Not in anyway surprising that a couple of guys are sitting out training today.

jm08

molloyjh wrote: »

Clearly shows Heaslips versatility as he obviously was playing 2 different roles in the 2 respective games.

You'd need to explain to me how those stats illustrate the different role he played (not that it matters). My point all along is that an openside like Wally/TOD* compliments Heaslip better.;)

edit: and Jennings*

bilston

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

POM was Ireland's best player in 2015. He is our next captain and is one of the first names down on the teamsheet. It will be interesting to see how Joe manages the backrow with every one fit, though.

I think its going to be a tug-of-war between Stander and Heaslip for the 8 jersey, with the younger guy eventually winning out.

Well if the younger guy doesn't win out eventually there is something wrong.

jm08

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

It's hard to tell because some of them are so wrapped up. Trimble is in a full tracksuit too. Can't see him in group shots.

Zebo left knee was heavily strapped up and he got treatment a couple of times during the game (from about 4 mins into the game).

aimee1

jm08 wrote: »

You'd need to explain to me how those stats illustrate the different role he played (not that it matters). My point all along is that an openside like Wally/TOD compliments Heaslip better.;)

But back rows are meant to compliment each other. Bizarre nonsense

aimee1

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Disappointing to see form players like Gilroy and Healy ignored. I guess McFadden is more familiar with the setup.

Or mcfadden can be useful on the bench to cover a few positions. Criticism for the sake of it

Mr Tickle

Deleted User wrote: »

Winger Issues
Bowe - out
Fitz - out
Earls - (sat out)
Trimble - (sat out)
Zebo - (sat out)

Just as well we have depth!

McFadden, Gilroy, Healy all next in line?

Not a winger but Rob kearney didn't train fully. did some solo work away from the team. so hopefully he'll be back on thursday.

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

You'd need to explain to me how those stats illustrate the different role he played (not that it matters). My point all along is that an openside like Wally/TOD* compliments Heaslip better.;)

edit: and Jennings*

Wallace and Jennings were completely and utterly different types of player!

Anyway, obviously hope we don't end up in a position of having McFadden actually in a squad.

jm08

aimee1 wrote: »

But back rows are meant to compliment each other. Bizarre nonsense

Yes, its bizarre that the Welsh papers are now talking about dropping Warburton because he doesn't compliment Tipuric in the backrow and why a lot of people thought that Michael Cheika was mad playing Hooper and Pocock in the same backrow

former total

McFadden is the best winger available. He was always going to be called up.

And of course, he has that ability which defines all rugby players, versatility.

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

Wallace and Jennings were completely and utterly different types of player!

Anyway, obviously hope we don't end up in a position of having McFadden actually in a squad.

I know. Jennings is a completely different type of player to SOB as well. Heislip looked his best for Leinster in 2009 in the backrow with Rocky and Jennings.

leakyboots

aimee1 wrote: »

Or mcfadden can be useful on the bench to cover a few positions. Criticism for the sake of it

How's McFadden's form been though? I can't say he's impressed me much when I've seen him this season but others who see him more often might say otherwise?

I'd say Gilroy and Matt Healy must be wondering what they have to do to get a look in

jm08

leakyboots wrote: »

How's McFadden's form been though? I can't say he's impressed me much when I've seen him this season but others who see him more often might say otherwise?

I'd say Gilroy and Matt Healy must be wondering what they have to do to get a look in

I'd say McFadden is handy for training this week. More than likely all will be fit for next week and McFadden will be back with Leinster. In the meantime, Gilroy and Healy can get games with their Provinces and help to keep them in contention for a playoff spot.

Hagz

Hopefully McFadden is just in there to hold a tackle bag. There's several better options available.

Bazzo

MJohnston wrote: »

Sexton shoulder injury and didn't train (will on Thursday), McFadden called up for Earls, Zebo knee injury and didn't train (will on Thursday), Trimble shoulder injury and didn't train (same deal about Thursday)

I've got a sinking feeling we won't see Sexton on Saturday. I hope I'm wrong but it seems every time he's got some sort of slight injury the week before a match he ends up sitting it out. If that's the case I wouldn't be surprised to see Madigan starting ahead of Jackson, I think Joe rates him. Hopefully if he is starting he repeats his previous performance against the French and bosses the match.

I'd have rathered seeing one of Gilroy or Healy being called up ahead of McFadden but again not all that surprising.

jacothelad

Originally Posted by jm08
compared to last years 6Ns (Wales v Ireland)
Heaslip: 19 carrys, 15m. 6 tackles made, 1 missed. No turnovers conceeded.
SOB: 19 carrys, 25m. 11 tackles made, 1 missed. 1 turnover conceeded.

molloyjh wrote: »

Clearly shows Heaslips versatility as he obviously was playing 2 different roles in the 2 respective games.

Heaslip making SOB look good there. Wally told me.

McFadden call up a bit puzzling. Has been hot and cold for Leinster, and clearly playing with a lot of frustration.

From a training point of view it makes sense I guess. He played in the away win against France season before last.

MJohnston

Bazzo wrote: »

If that's the case I wouldn't be surprised to see Madigan starting ahead of Jackson, I think Joe rates him. Hopefully if he is starting he repeats his previous performance against the French and bosses the match.

If Sexton were out, I wouldn't be surprised to see Madigan at 10 purely because of his performance against the French last time.

vienne86

Bazzo wrote: »

I've got a sinking feeling we won't see Sexton on Saturday. I hope I'm wrong but it seems every time he's got some sort of slight injury the week before a match he ends up sitting it out. If that's the case I wouldn't be surprised to see Madigan starting ahead of Jackson, I think Joe rates him. Hopefully if he is starting he repeats his previous performance against the French and bosses the match.

I'd have rathered seeing one of Gilroy or Healy being called up ahead of McFadden but again not all that surprising.

I hope you're wrong about Sexton.....he was great on Sunday, and we really need hiim pulling the strings in Paris. I would prefer Jackson to Madigan, but given he went back to Ulster at the weekend, Joe probably would have Madigan in if Sexton goes missing. And as for McFadden, he wouldn't be my next choice for wing either, but hopefully he is just there because he knows the setup, and he will be packed back to Leinster.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Deleted User wrote: »

McFadden call up a bit puzzling. Has been hot and cold for Leinster, and clearly playing with a lot of frustration.

From a training point of view it makes sense I guess. He played in the away win against France season before last.

Unless Trimble and Zebo are serious doubts it doesn't really matter who is called up for training. Assume with them fit it'll be Trimble and one of Kearney/Zebo on the wing/bench.

jm08

jacothelad wrote: »

Originally Posted by jm08
compared to last years 6Ns (Wales v Ireland)
Heaslip: 19 carrys, 15m. 6 tackles made, 1 missed. No turnovers conceeded.
SOB: 19 carrys, 25m. 11 tackles made, 1 missed. 1 turnover conceeded.


Heaslip making SOB look good there. Wally told me.

Actually, it was POC who was making them all look bad.:D

POC: 19 carries, 28m. 1 Clean Break. 1 Defender beaten. 1 Offload.

phog

From Twitter

‏Sinéad Kissane ‏@sineadkissane 11m11 minutes ago
Sean O'Brien looked fit and flying it at training. Rob Kearney trained on his own. Thursday will tell.

RTÉ Rugby ‏@RTErugby 11m11 minutes ago
Keith Earls winning fitness battle to face France http://bit.ly/1V0Oj7e #RTErugby #SixNations

I hope they're not rushing Earls back.

Neil3030

I'm sure the small matter of a very large Fijian chap on the French wing would necessitate Ferg's defence over someone like Gilroy.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

phog wrote: »

From Twitter





I hope they're not rushing Earls back.

Not sure how they can say that. If he's following the back to play protocols the most he would have done today is 20 minutes on a bike/treadmill and they'd probably still be monitoring him.
The most they could say with any certainty is he had no immediate reaction to activity today.

former total

Surely they cannot name Earls in the team? Best case scenario, he can only pass the return to play protocol the morning of the match.

What worried me about Earls is that he went completely out cold and it's hard to see where the impact came from. I watched it back last night and just couldn't figure how it happened.

As others have said, I hope he isn't rushed back, but at the same time I do have faith in the medical team to put his well being first.

jacothelad

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Disappointing to see form players like Gilroy and Healy ignored. I guess McFadden is more familiar with the setup.

aimee1 wrote: »

Or mcfadden can be useful on the bench to cover a few positions. Criticism for the sake of it

In what way is it 'Criticism for the sake of it.' That isn't criticism for the sake of it, instead it is a fairly relevant stance to take. While I think McFadden is a good player he hasn't exactly covered himself in glory this season. Gilroy for example has played well, scored six tries etc and has some measure of versatility being able to play 11, 14 (and also 15 in the same way that McFadden plays centre.) Healy also has some quality abilities. As for being versatile, McFadden isn't really. He isn't good enough to play as a centre for Ireland. He is a decent wing. The question that should be asked of any player is "What has he done this season to deserve a call up to the Ireland side / squad?" That may not be the only criterion that is used but it is always relevant.

CMOTDibbler

jm08 wrote: »

You'd need to explain to me how those stats illustrate the different role he played (not that it matters). My point all along is that an openside like Wally/TOD* compliments Heaslip better.;)

edit: and Jennings*

You're looking beeeeaauutiful Jamie!

aimee1 wrote: »

But back rows are meant to compliment each other. Bizarre nonsense

Joe Schmidt: "Jamie, CJ and Tommy, Say something nice about each other!"

jm08 wrote: »

Yes, its bizarre that the Welsh papers are now talking about dropping Warburton because he doesn't compliment Tipuric in the backrow and why a lot of people thought that Michael Cheika was mad playing Hooper and Pocock in the same backrow

Pretty mean of Warbs really

Neil3030

jacothelad wrote: »

In what way is it 'Criticism for the sake of it.' That isn't criticism for the sake of it, instead it is a fairly relevant stance to take. While I think McFadden is a good player he hasn't exactly covered himself in glory this season. Gilroy for example has played well, scored six tries etc and has some measure of versatility being able to play 11, 14 (and also 15 in the same way that McFadden plays centre.) Healy also has some quality abilities. As for being versatile, McFadden isn't really. He isn't good enough to play as a centre for Ireland. He is a decent wing. The question that should be asked of any player is "What has he done this season to deserve a call up to the Ireland side / squad?" That may not be the only criterion that is used but it is always relevant.

It's analogous to TOD getting the nod ahead of VdF for me. The latter is in better form for his province, but the former knows the ropes and has previous involvement in the system. No complaints about the selection.

Hagz

People making a meal of the Earls incident. No clear evidence he was out cold and what little evidence there was suggested he didn't lose consciousness. I wish someone would actually throw up a gif of the incident to clear things up. They were being overly cautious with the whole thing and rightly so, but if he's fine he's fine. Medical staff won't put his safety at risk.

JPNelsforearm

McFadden has been playinng with cement shoes for the better part of two years, Gilroy flying and banging in tries for fun, its a no brainer. McFadden was a hard explosive straight running winger, well worth most of his caps, that player is gone, hes doesnt deserve to be in the squad.

captbarnacles

CJ, Heaslip and SOB gives us some serious carrying power. Hope it is those 3 starting.

molloyjh

Hagz wrote: »

People making a meal of the Earls incident. No clear evidence he was out cold and what little evidence there was suggested he didn't lose consciousness. I wish someone would actually throw up a gif of the incident to clear things up. They were being overly cautious with the whole thing and rightly so, but if he's fine he's fine. Medical staff won't put his safety at risk.

This. He went into a ruck and hit the ground face down. Lay still for less than a minute (while play was going on around him) and when play had gone past him he then started to move again.

There's a lot of alarmist stuff going on about on concussions now. Any slight hint of a head knock now and people are crying out for players to be rested for a few weeks. The simple fact is that we are in no position to make calls like that. There are medical professionals who know far more than we ever will making decisions about player welfare. It should be left in their hands.

Sure on the 42 the other day some guy was trying to say Sexton should stop listening to the doctors and start listening to him. He then proceeded to link to Wikipedia. "Don't listen to the doctors Johnny, Wikipedia will give you a full and proper diagnosis.".

CMOTDibbler

Hagz wrote: »

People making a meal of the Earls incident. No clear evidence he was out cold and what little evidence there was suggested he didn't lose consciousness. I wish someone would actually throw up a gif of the incident to clear things up. They were being overly cautious with the whole thing and rightly so, but if he's fine he's fine. Medical staff won't put his safety at risk.

I think they showed it on against the head, so you can watch it there if you want.

I saw it live and a good many replays and he dropped like he was shot and was completely motionless for a noticeable period before his leg moved. For me, he was unconscious for a few seconds.

The Black Stags

Deleted User wrote: »

What worried me about Earls is that he went completely out cold and it's hard to see where the impact came from. I watched it back last night and just couldn't figure how it happened.

It looks more like he has stretched his neck rather than hit his head.

He drives in to form a ruck as Ferlong falls to ground - which catches Earls head awkwardly on the wrong side and stretches his neck. I imagine there is a decent amount of force involved.

There's no clip on youtube yet that I could see but the Analysis article on the42 from yesterday - video 13 about 40seconds in shows the incident.
[won't let me post a link to it yet]

Riskymove

Neil3030 wrote: »

It's analogous to TOD getting the nod ahead of VdF for me. The latter is in better form for his province, but the former knows the ropes and has previous involvement in the system. No complaints about the selection.

I don't think it is the same at all

VdF is a relatively new starter and uncapped

TOD has been in squads for quite a while now and has played well in his appearances (I don't get the implication that TOD has been in bad form)

McF v Gilroy isn't the same comparison at all

Hagz

The guys immediate reaction was one of pain and he brought his hand up to his face. If you think he was knocked out then what you are saying is that after wincing and bringing his hand up to his face, he then lost consciousness. Highly unlikely.

Anatom

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I think they showed it on against the head, so you can watch it there if you want.

I saw it live and a good many replays and he dropped like he was shot and was completely motionless for a noticeable period before his leg moved. For me, he was unconscious for a few seconds.

Definitely. He was out of it. I would hesitate to bring him back in at all for a couple of weeks at least. Its not worth it, for his own sake.

MJohnston

Hagz wrote: »

People making a meal of the Earls incident. No clear evidence he was out cold and what little evidence there was suggested he didn't lose consciousness. I wish someone would actually throw up a gif of the incident to clear things up. They were being overly cautious with the whole thing and rightly so, but if he's fine he's fine. Medical staff won't put his safety at risk.

Here he is visibly and unmistakably out cold for a good 5 seconds, and he would have made contact well before this clip started.

Hagz

molloyjh wrote: »

This. He went into a ruck and hit the ground face down. Lay still for less than a minute (while play was going on around him) and when play had gone past him he then started to move again.

It's even more innocuous than that though. He didn't hit the ground, he hit another Irish player's body and he immediately winced before laying on the ground. And never mind laying still for less than a minute, he lay still for less than 5 seconds.

molloyjh

MJohnston wrote: »

Here he is visibly and unmistakably out cold for a good 5 seconds, and he would have made contact well before this clip started.

But sure so is Heaslip then. He's lying still for almost as long.

The Black Stags

I'm re-posting this as it's important for the discussion as it actually shows what happened.

There's no clip on youtube yet that I could see but the Analysis article on the42 from yesterday - video 13 about 40seconds in shows the incident.

Hagz

MJohnston wrote: »

Here he is visibly and unmistakably out cold for a good 5 seconds, and he would have made contact well before this clip started.

That gif conveniently leaves out the contact and immediate reaction. Someone laying on the ground does not equal visibly and unmistakably out cold.

Mr Tickle

The Black Stags wrote: »

There's no clip on youtube yet that I could see but the Analysis article on the42 from yesterday - video 13 about 40seconds in shows the incident.
[won't let me post a link to it yet]

He doesn't look all that steady on his feet in the lead up to that either. If you look at him as he's deciding whether to hit the ruck or not he seems to stagger. Maybe this is just tiredness/hesitation but he looks a bit off.

CMOTDibbler

The Black Stags wrote: »

It looks more like he has stretched his neck rather than hit his head.

He drives in to form a ruck as Ferlong falls to ground - which catches Earls head awkwardly on the wrong side and stretches his neck. I imagine there is a decent amount of force involved.

There's no clip on youtube yet that I could see but the Analysis article on the42 from yesterday - video 13 about 40seconds in shows the incident.
[won't let me post a link to it yet]

He's completely motionless for six or seven seconds.

Bazzo

The Black Stags wrote: »

It looks more like he has stretched his neck rather than hit his head.

He drives in to form a ruck as Ferlong falls to ground - which catches Earls head awkwardly on the wrong side and stretches his neck. I imagine there is a decent amount of force involved.

There's no clip on youtube yet that I could see but the Analysis article on the42 from yesterday - video 13 about 40seconds in shows the incident.
[won't let me post a link to it yet]

Below

https://youtu.be/pUCBpz4jQ8E?t=43