Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

aimee1

Neil3030 wrote: »

How tall is Murray Kinsella??

Sinead kissane + 3 foot roughly

former total

Billysays no wrote: »

Its strange but this is exactly the type of opinion that former total supports that i simply don't get. so madigan is on the bench because he is versatile. Mcfadden is called up because he is versatile.

I have no idea why you're referencing me in response to someone else, and I think you're also confusing me with someone else.

I've been saying the EXACT opposite all week. Madigan is picked because Joe thinks he's the second best out half. McFadden is there as the next best winger. The versatility thing is a non-issue.

irishbucsfan

former total wrote: »

I have no idea why you're referencing me in response to someone else, and I think you're also confusing me with someone else.

I've been saying the EXACT opposite all week. Madigan is picked because Joe thinks he's the second best out half. McFadden is there as the next best winger. The versatility thing is a non-issue.

But I don't usersrand that. Joe specifically references it as the reason he was picked in the past. Why do you think versatility is now a non-issue when previously it was? What would have changed Joe's mind?

former total

irishbucsfan wrote: »

But I don't usersrand that. Joe specifically references it as the reason he was picked in the past. Why do you think versatility is now a non-issue when previously it was? What would have changed Joe's mind?

From earlier today:

former total wrote: »

When Joe made those comments in 2014, the logic was that our starting centres were carrying knocks and so there was a good chance Madigan might be called upon to play centre off the bench.
If the logic of those comments still holds, the full fitness of Payne and Henshaw this weekend should mean Jackson will bench.

But really I'm just bemused that yer man had a pop off me over an opinion that is the opposite to one I actually hold.

The Rape of Lucretia

Billysays no wrote: »

Versatile says to me, well i'm not fantastic at any position but i can slot into multiple positions should the case arise.

Well it shouldnt tell you that. Check a dictionary. It means adaptable or able to carry out several functions - without reference to effectiveness at all. Being versatile tells you nothing about Madser's skill as an out half.

Would you regard O'Brien, given that he can play very effectively at 6,7, and 8 (his best position really being at 6 I believe, but correct to play him at 7 given the other options we have who can play 6) as not fantastic at any position but he can slot in for you in the back row in an emergency ? So he is a handy player just filling in a 7 until we find someone who can really play international level openside ?

CMOTDibbler

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Well it shouldnt tell you that. Check a dictionary. It means adaptable or able to carry out several functions - without reference effectiveness at all. Being versatile tells you nothing about Madser's skill as an out half.

Would you regard O'Brien, given that he can play very effectively at 6,7, and 8 (his best position really being at 6 I believe, but correct to play him at 7 given the other options we have who can play 6) as not fantastic at any position but he can slot in for you in the back row in an emergency ? So he is a handy player just filling in a 7 until we find someone who can really play international level openside ?

And we had jm08 the other day putting Heaslip down for not being versatile like better back rowers such as Leamy :rolleyes:

irishbucsfan

former total wrote: »

From earlier today:



But really I'm just bemused that yer man had a pop off me over an opinion that is the opposite to one I actually hold.

But in reality Rob Kearney and Zebo's fitness means Madigan's ability to play fullback is equally useful. And outside of the fitness of our squad his versatility is very helpful to us in allowing us to cover injuries off the bench.

I still think its important to Joe

CMOTDibbler

irishbucsfan wrote: »

But in reality Rob Kearney and Zebo's fitness means Madigan's ability to play fullback is equally useful. And outside of the fitness of our squad his versatility is very helpful to us in allowing us to cover injuries off the bench.

I still think its important to Joe

It is important to him, especially in the backs where you have only one sub. If that sub is able to cover more than one position, he's much more useful.

Madigan just improves that situation.

jm08

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

And we had jm08 the other day putting Heaslip down for not being versatile like better back rowers such as Leamy :rolleyes:

Actually, I compared him to Sean O'Brien.

Any comment on Leamy was to put straight those who commented that Leamy was dropped for Heaslip

Billysays no

irishbucsfan wrote: »

But in reality Rob Kearney and Zebo's fitness means Madigan's ability to play fullback is equally useful. And outside of the fitness of our squad his versatility is very helpful to us in allowing us to cover injuries off the bench.

I still think its important to Joe

There I was. A dedicated Irishbucsfan. And then you HAD to say something like that. We all know zebo is a dreadful fullback, soon to be proved a dreadful winger this weekend.

So lets pick the backline for the weekend (conjecture). Lets say earls is injured. Now in the past I have said our two wingers are trimble and earls. So earls is hia assessed as unavailable. So who in their right mind would put zebo on the wing. That would be totally mental. But then you would have mcfadden. Now that would be mental +2.

I will not even mention the options. Whats the point. They are obvious and in form.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

irishbucsfan wrote: »

But in reality Rob Kearney and Zebo's fitness means Madigan's ability to play fullback is equally useful. And outside of the fitness of our squad his versatility is very helpful to us in allowing us to cover injuries off the bench.

I still think its important to Joe

I think it's still important.

If you look at the last 2 years of "Jackson v Madigan" you've got one 6N where Jackson was ahead of Madigan until we were carrying a few knocks and the versatility issue was specifically mentioned by Schmidt.

After that you've got Jackson picked ahead of Madigan for the summer tour. (Which Madigan ended up on when PJ got injured)

Autumn 2014, I can't remember for some reason? I think Madigan was ahead of Jackson there.

6N 2015 - Jackson ruled out completely.

WC - Madigan ahead of Jackson who has missed a large part of previous season. I almost wouldn't read anything into Madigan's selection for the QF in terms of who is preferred because it was such a specific set of circumstances. Madigan made sense that day.

6N 2016 - Expecting a very physical game against Wales and already missing a first choice back, 2 if you include Bowe.

Point being. .... There aren't that many instances where the entire first choice squad and Jackson and Madigan were fit and available for selection going into an international break. It's not clear one way or the other who is actually considered the better out half. It is clear that Madigan has been preferred on multiple occasions where one or more players were missing or carrying kicks, so it's not that big a stretch to say that Madigan's versatility is still a very big mark in his favour.

CMOTDibbler

Billysays no wrote: »

I will not even mention the options. Whats the point. They are obvious and in form.

For a given value of 'form'.

former total

irishbucsfan wrote: »

But in reality Rob Kearney and Zebo's fitness means Madigan's ability to play fullback is equally useful. And outside of the fitness of our squad his versatility is very helpful to us in allowing us to cover injuries off the bench.

I still think its important to Joe

Ah yeah, you can make arguments either way.

You could point to Madigan as being versatile then point to Felix Jones who was as versatile as Mike Ross yet still benched all last season. How do you draw a firm conclusion from that?

I just think he's picking what he regards as his best players but it's all opinion.

irishbucsfan

Billysays no wrote: »

There I was. A dedicated Irishbucsfan. And then you HAD to say something like that. We all know zebo is a dreadful fullback, soon to be proved a dreadful winger this weekend.

So lets pick the backline for the weekend (conjecture). Lets say earls is injured. Now in the past I have said our two wingers are trimble and earls. So earls is hia assessed as unavailable. So who in their right mind would put zebo on the wing. That would be totally mental. But then you would have mcfadden. Now that would be mental +2.

I will not even mention the options. Whats the point. They are obvious and in form.

Your suggestions for the bench are fine if there is one injury in a unit. But I think the coaches are differing from you in trying to have an extra level of redundancy in each position.

Also they're trying to have cover with as little disruption as possible (IE trying not to have someone on the pitch covering another position). Madigan/Zebo covers every position except for 13 without needing someone to move away from their starting position.

Teferi

Leandro Round Billboard wrote: »

if reddan mcfadden are in the 23 sat I will not watch it.
I dont mind a little nepotism and cronyism but Schmidt would be going too far for my liking.

If it's only Reddan picked does that mean you'll only watch one half? Which will it be? The first or the second?

Billysays no

I have this lifelong terminal condition called opinionated. So zebo wasn't great. So earls Trimble Payne and henshaw were. As expected. So McFadden , on form , will be? These decisios are not great. Joe? What is this?

thomond2006

Leandro Round Billboard wrote: »

if reddan mcfadden are in the 23 sat I will not watch it.
I dont mind a little nepotism and cronyism but Schmidt would be going too far for my liking.

Well you're doing a damn find job as a Sith Lord, my apprentice.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

Pop quiz hotshots, lets do the math.
reddan + average dave+ Mcfadden = jedi = boring
marrimon + gilroy + healy =the sith=exciting,vibrant,sexy

Choose your side and then name your province.
Blessed are the Parochial as they will inherit SFA.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

Pop quiz hotshots, lets do the math.
reddan + average dave+ Mcfadden = jedi = boring
marrimon + gilroy + healy =the sith=exciting,vibrant,sexy

Choose your side and then name your province.
Blessed are the Parochial as they will inherit SFA.

.ak

So, what you're saying is Connacht are on the Dark Side? That's interesting...

Leandro Round Billboard

Leandro Round Billboard wrote: »

Pop quiz hotshots, lets do the math.
reddan + average dave+ Mcfadden = jedi = boring
marrimon + gilroy + healy =the sith=exciting,vibrant,sexy

Choose your side and then name your province.
Blessed are the Parochial as they will inherit SFA.

Let's just parachute in two players who have never trained with the squad at 5 days notice. Good plan.

irishbucsfan

Pretty sure the last time McFadden/Reddan/Kearney played a 6 Nations game together we scored 46 points (unless I'm missing another game since 2014). Weren't too boring that day.

b.gud

.ak wrote: »

So, what you're saying is Connacht are on the Dark Side? That's interesting...

Surely that'd be Munster they did build the Debt Star

former total

I can see some logic in making arguments for Gilroy. I don't agree with them but I can see where they're coming from.

But Matt Healy. Oh my lord. Lamb/slaughter scenario.

former total

I can see some logic in making arguments for Gilroy. I don't agree with them but I can see where they're coming from.

But Matt Healy. Oh my lord. Lamb/slaughter scenario.

flangemeistro

So are we looking at
Kearney
Trimble
Payne
Henshaw
Zebo
Sexton
Murray
Heaslip
O'Brien
Stander
Toner
McCarthy
Furlong
Best
McGrath
????????????????????????????

molloyjh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Let's just parachute in two players who have never trained with the squad at 5 days notice. Good plan.

Worse than that, you'd be parachuting them in with just 1 training session to get up to speed. That's just beyond madness.

But then they are exciting at lower levels so that justifies everything.

irishbucsfan

flangemeistro wrote: »

So are we looking at
Kearney
Trimble
Payne
Henshaw
Zebo
Sexton
Murray
Heaslip
O'Brien
Stander
Toner
McCarthy
Furlong
Best
McGrath
????????????????????????????

Zebo has missed some training so I'd imagine it'll be both Kearneys coming in going off previous situations like that. I don't expect Furlong to start either. Would hope Ryan gets a start myself.

ionadnapokot

flangemeistro wrote: »

So are we looking at
Kearney
Trimble
Payne
Henshaw
Zebo
Sexton
Murray
Heaslip
O'Brien
Stander
Toner
McCarthy
Furlong
Best
McGrath
????????????????????????????

Massive ask for McGrath to follow up last weeks 80 min 18 tackle performance. Solid in scrum too.
Cronin way off the pace or something?
Btw are ruck clear outs def not included in tackle count stats?

bilston

molloyjh wrote: »

Worse than that, you'd be parachuting them in with just 1 training session to get up to speed. That's just beyond madness.

But then they are exciting at lower levels so that justifies everything.

I assume he is referring to Gilroy and Healy, in which case Gilroy has been involved with the squad loads of time. He played only last season!

Whatever the reasons for not picking Gilroy, I don't think not knowing the systems etc is one of them.

weareallmarks

lads, the issue with kearney is that EVERY TEAM can read him now. its the sam etrick every time. he is fantastic under the high ball, he runs back into traffic every time and sometimes isolates himself.
zebo cant get his mind around defending but will bring magic. last weekend was his best 40 in green....

neither player is the ideal full back.

d kearney in for earls. he played a blinder when he came on. i'd leave the rest as is (injury depending). everyone played well and should be rewarded..again depending on how they are from last week. i'd have brought in ross . leave healy at home.

weareallmarks

lads, the issue with kearney is that EVERY TEAM can read him now. Its the same trick every time. he is fantastic under the high ball, he runs back into traffic every time and sometimes isolates himself.
zebo cant get his mind around defending but will bring magic. Last weekend was his best 40 in green....

Neither player is the ideal full back, if only Isa didnt play 20 minutes for Fiji.

D kearney in for earls. He played a blinder when he came on. I'd leave the rest as is (injury depending). Everyone played well and should be rewarded..Again depending on how they are from last week. i'd have brought in ross . Leave healy at home.

wp_rathead

Ringrose still with Irish squad?
I'd rather he got the 23 jersey if Earls and Zebo ruled out - he covers wing and centre like McFadden

bilston

flangemeistro wrote: »

So are we looking at
Kearney
Trimble
Payne
Henshaw
Zebo
Sexton
Murray
Heaslip
O'Brien
Stander
Toner
McCarthy
Furlong
Best
McGrath
????????????????????????????

I'd be tempted to start Furlong but there was a good video with Murray Kinsella and Trevor Hogan (someone posted the link here last night) and they pointed out that the Irish front row addressed the problems against awakes at half time. White had a good game in the loose so I'd probably go with him again assuming the front row issues have alleviated.

Journeyman_1

weareallmarks wrote: »

lads, the issue with kearney is that EVERY TEAM can read him now. its the sam etrick every time. he is fantastic under the high ball, he runs back into traffic every time and sometimes isolates himself.
zebo cant get his mind around defending but will bring magic. last weekend was his best 40 in green....

It's not a trick, it doesn't matter if teams know he's going to do it because they can't do much to exploit or prevent it.

What about Zebos other 40?

Buer

weareallmarks wrote: »

zebo cant get his mind around defending but will bring magic. Last weekend was his best 40 in green....
.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzwyI4JLLN4&t=0m8s

Teferi

I was looking at the game and Zebo came into the line really well. At other functions you'd expect of a fullback he didn't have a great game. There was one highball in the first 10 or so minutes of the match that he didn't even compete for which was criminal.

I'm leaning back towards Kearney as the choice fullback. I wanted to see a change in that position and if Zebo is that change I think I'd rather safe+boring Kearney. Maybe it was one of those things were I didn't fully realise what he did until he was gone, I dunno.

First Up

Teferi wrote: »

I was looking at the game and Zebo came into the line really well. At other functions you'd expect of a fullback he didn't have a great game. There was one highball in the first 10 or so minutes of the match that he didn't even compete for which was criminal.

I'm leaning back towards Kearney as the choice fullback. I wanted to see a change in that position and if Zebo is that change I think I'd rather safe+boring Kearney. Maybe it was one of those things were I didn't fully realise what he did until he was gone, I dunno.

Except the time Sexton made a lovely break and needed Zebo with him to create the overlap for Trimble. Because Zebo wasn't there in time, Sexton had to pass directly to Trimble and the move died.

vienne86

wp_rathead wrote: »

Ringrose still with Irish squad?
I'd rather he got the 23 jersey if Earls and Zebo ruled out - he covers wing and centre like McFadden

I didn't think Ringrose was in the squad at all - attending the training all right, but not in the squad AFAIK. I would expect to see him play for Leinster tomorrow night.

First Up

First Up wrote: »

Except the time Sexton made a lovely break and needed Zebo with him to create the overlap for Trimble. Because Zebo wasn't there in time, Sexton had to pass directly to Trimble and the move died.

I thought I read in Darcy's article that Zebo overran Sexton on the inside?

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/gordon-d-arcy-evidence-ireland-adding-a-new-attacking-dimension-to-game-1.2528648

Once Roberts comes that high up the field he has to hit somebody (Robbie) as Johnny disappeared through the gap. Tom James had the pace to put Trimble into touch but I would argue with anyone who says he should have passed inside to Zebo because Simon was ahead of him.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

As there's no match thread yet, here's the French team...

sydthebeat

thats a heavy french pack.... we need to move them all over the field... kicking will be the order of the day

LostArt

Just can't see us losing to that team tbh.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Noves says they've been working on their defense all week.

I can see something like the WC match, tight enough first half, mainly kicks then us (hopefully) pulling away in the second half.

flangemeistro

Is Picamoles injured?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

flangemeistro wrote: »

Is Picamoles injured?

He's out for the whole 6 Nations.

flangemeistro

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

He's out for the whole 6 Nations.

**** I missed that, what time is our team announcement today and will they have the video feed fixed.

wp_rathead

former total wrote: »

I can see some logic in making arguments for Gilroy. I don't agree with them but I can see where they're coming from.

But Matt Healy. Oh my lord. Lamb/slaughter scenario.

How so?

flangemeistro wrote: »

**** I missed that, what time is our team announcement today and will they have the video feed fixed.

12.45

roundymac

flangemeistro wrote: »

Is Picamoles injured?

Torn hamstring.

CMOTDibbler

wp_rathead wrote: »

How so?

Because Matt Healy has never played an international match so sending him to Paris for his first one would be...

...fun? :eek: