Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

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Two questions for the rugby experts:
1. Does McFadden/D Kearney/Reddan involvement mean that schmidt is morphing into Steady Eddie
2. What jerseys are they wearing sat, is it the white or the blue.

Mahatma Geansai

Why is Madigan's versatility required from the bench, if we already have McFadden there to cover 11-14? Would it not be a good opportunity to get the superior Jackson into the squad?

Matt Healy has scored twice as many tries as Simon Zebo and or Andrew Trimble this season.

Using this single and only metric, there is no reason whatsoever to suggest that Zebo or Trimble could possibly start ahead of him for Ireland.

irishbucsfan

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Why is Madigan's versatility required from the bench, if we already have McFadden there to cover 11-14? Would it not be a good opportunity to get the superior Jackson into the squad?

And have one player covering 4 positions? And noone covering fullback?

The Rape of Lucretia

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is it? POM would be there if fit and Earls and Zebo were involved last week. That makes 7 if you assume POM being there means TOD isn't.

Is it ?
By the same token, if Henderson, Healy, Fitzgerald, Bowe were fit to compare like with like ????

NiallBoo

I'm going to get my head bitten off for this but I think that Dave Kearney is at least as good an attacker as either zebo or Earls.

They're all good, but good at very different things.

Zebo has speed and is very good at beating a man 1-on-1. When the defence makes a mistake and leaves a gap I'd want him to be there.

Dave Kearney has much, much better timing and awareness - the most important qualities for a backline actually creating opportunities.

Zebo may sniff out more tries but frequently over-runs balls and fails to notices opportunities to pass.

So even if dk doesn't score as many tries himself, I think the team with him in it will score more tries in total - especially against good teams where you can't rely of opposition mistakes.

So I'm pretty happy to see him in the team.

Also, none of them should be lumped in with McFadden who has had a poor season and showed failings in all of the above.

awec

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Why is Madigan's versatility required from the bench, if we already have McFadden there to cover 11-14? Would it not be a good opportunity to get the superior Jackson into the squad?

McFadden is not a centre. Covers 11 and 14 only.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

And have one player covering 4 positions? And noone covering fullback?

Madigan is not a full back. He covers 10 and 12 only.

The Rape of Lucretia

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

The thing is, Kearney and McFadden don't even excel at Pro12 level.

But they both play better at international level.
Dave is a good call without doubt whatever the injuries. McFads is the best man injuries considered.

stephen_n

McCarthy and White will need to up their games this week. McGrath can't be expected to play more than 50 mins this week, so hopefully Joe shows a little more faith in Cronin this week. I wonder what the thinking of Strauss over Cronin on the bench is, would have thought this is exactly the type of game made for Cronin's impact. Wonder are there doubts around Best's fitness. That Backrow is absolutely mouth watering.

Injuries are pretty much dictating the backline, I like Gilroy and think he's always done ok in green but clearly Joe doesn't feel the same but the hysteria about McFadden is laughable. He is a solid player who is more than capable of implementing our game plan, especially if we are bombing their wingers.

Mahatma Geansai

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Is it ?
By the same token, if Henderson, Healy, Fitzgerald, Bowe were fit to compare like with like ????

I don't think the provincial break-down of the national side is a measure of anything tbh. Joe, since day-one, has shown a preference for players he has previously coached.

wp_rathead

awec wrote: »

Madigan is not a full back. He covers 10 and 12 only.

...and 9...

awec

awec wrote: »

McFadden is not a centre. Covers 11 and 14 only.



Madigan is not a full back. He covers 10 and 12 only.

Both have significant European exposure in the positions you decree them not to be able to cover.

If they can not cover those positions to the extent that Jared Payne can't cover 13, then we'll be just fine.

Podge_irl

wp_rathead wrote: »

In 2014 he was
This season? Been muck

Dave Kearney? He was poor against Argentina and Wasps. He has been pretty good in every other game I've seen

The Rape of Lucretia

Deleted User wrote: »

or when BOD left 2/3 players walk through him in defence.

No. Just no. That didnt happen. Never. Ever. In a month of Sundays. That sentence is all wrong on so many levels. The rest is OK. The BOD bit. No.

molloyjh

And the sensible reaction to the Ireland back row is:

NiallBoo

awec wrote: »

Madigan is not a full back. He covers 10 and 12 only.

Madigan is a full-back. With both centres, both Kearney and Madigan able to play full-back...is it really needed for 23?

irishbucsfan

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Kearney first played for Leinster in the 2008-2009 season. He has featured for Leinster every year since. Hence, he has played provincial rugby for 8 seasons.

An apology would be most welcome.

He made his debut in the final game of that '09 season. 8 Seasons haven't elapsed since then! The fact you find the need to attempt to be so disingenuous just shows how desperate you are to twist reality to suit your dislike of players of a certain kind.

Mahatma Geansai

NiallBoo wrote: »

I'm going to get my head bitten off for this but I think that Dave Kearney is at least as good an attacker as either zebo or Earls.

I'm sorry, but that might just be the most wrong thing I've ever seen on this forum.

The Rape of Lucretia

Deleted User wrote: »

Impressive that we can be missing 4 senior wingers through injury and still have 6N medalists on both wings.

And another on the bench.

Larbre34

I'm just joining in after hearing the radio reports of it, what happened about O'Donnell being on the press release sheet but now Ruddock on the published 23?

.ak

Podge_irl wrote: »

Dave Kearney? He was poor against Argentina and Wasps. He has been pretty good in every other game I've seen

I wouldn't even say that about the wasps game. That kick was cruelly carried last second by the wind, can happen to the best of us.

But generally speaking defending is probably one of Kearney's biggest strengths.

awec

NiallBoo wrote: »

Madigan is a full-back. With both centres, both Kearney and Madigan able to play full-back...is it really needed for 23?

He is probably the fourth best full back in that Ireland 23.

awec

Larbre34 wrote: »

I'm just joining in after hearing the radio reports of it, what happened about O'Donnell being on the press release sheet but now Ruddock on the published 23?

Sheet is wrong, it's TOD.

.ak

I would've liked to see ruddock on the bench but I think TOD coming on against a tired French pack could rip them to shreds, like having an extra back out there.

WeleaseWoderick

When exactly did every Ireland team announcement and match build up turn into a moaning contest about the players being picked?

I know it's a discussion board but the default position from some people is outrage at selection as opposed to any sort of excitement about the game itself.

Having watched Ireland for the last 25 years or so, I can well remember the times when we went to Paris without a hope. We are now traveling there as 2 times Champions and having not lost to France since 2011. We should be confident in coming away with a win and keeping the defense of the Six Nations going strong.

WeleaseWoderick

When exactly did every Ireland team announcement and match build up turn into a moaning contest about the players being picked?

I know it's a discussion board but the default position from some people is outrage at selection as opposed to any sort of excitement about the game itself.

Having watched Ireland for the last 25 years or so, I can well remember the times when we went to Paris without a hope. We are now traveling there as 2 times Champions and having not lost to France since 2011. We should be confident in coming away with a win and keeping the defense of the Six Nations going strong.

Mahatma Geansai

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He made his debut in the final game of that '09 season. 8 Seasons haven't elapsed since then! The fact you find the need to attempt to be so disingenuous just shows how desperate you are to twist reality to suit your dislike of players of a certain kind.

I had a quick look at the Leinster site to see what years each player made their debut in. If it helps your cause, I could amend it to 7.5 seasons of provincial rugby?

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

He is probably the fourth best full back in that Ireland 23.

Fullback is far less important against France than 12 or 13 is though.

Madigan can play fullback to be fair. He's not bad there and it's where he started out. Could be where he ends up playing for Bordeaux...

Leandro Round Billboard

Leandro Round Billboard wrote: »

Two questions for the rugby experts:
1. Does McFadden/D Kearney/Reddan involvement mean that schmidt is morphing into Steady Eddie
2. What jerseys are they wearing sat, is it the white or the blue.

Are you going to not watch the match like you said or what

flangemeistro

molloyjh wrote: »

And the sensible reaction to the Ireland back row is:

If you think that's good just wait till the captain incumbent O'Mahony comes back and we'll have a back row of O'Mahony, O'Brien and Stander. Wow.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

He is probably the fourth best full back in that Ireland 23.

With one of those others requiring injury for Madigan to even be considered there. And if that happens the other 2 will be busy playing well in midfield and helping to create opportunities for Ireland from their starting positions. Having that continuity in midfield is very important, whether you realise that or not. Look at Sextons break in the second half on Sunday for example and the timing of the runs from both Henshaw and Payne that opened the space up for Sexton to exploit. They are starting to develop a good understanding of each other and how they each fit into the systems and its starting to pay off. So it makes far more sense to leave those 2 there if Rob gets injured.

Neil3030

Happy with the team. Ross obviously wasn't ready. Hope White can hold his own against their front row. I am hoping that we'll see accurate kicks from Sexton and Murray, targeting Vakatawa and Thomas, but the chase better be solid or we're just giving these lads a platform to gallop back at us. Picamoles gone is huge, although Camara is starting and he is a class player.

molloyjh

WeleaseWoderick wrote: »

When exactly did every Ireland team announcement and match build up turn into a moaning contest about the players being picked?

I know it's a discussion board but the default position from some people is outrage at selection as opposed to any sort of excitement about the game itself.

Having watched Ireland for the last 25 years or so, I can well remember the times when we went to Paris without a hope. We are now traveling there as 2 times Champions and having not lost to France since 2011. We should be confident in coming away with a win and keeping the defense of the Six Nations going strong.

Noopti

stephen_n wrote: »

McCarthy and White will need to up their games this week. McGrath can't be expected to play more than 50 mins this week, so hopefully Joe shows a little more faith in Cronin this week. I wonder what the thinking of Strauss over Cronin on the bench is, would have thought this is exactly the type of game made for Cronin's impact. Wonder are there doubts around Best's fitness. That Backrow is absolutely mouth watering.

Injuries are pretty much dictating the backline, I like Gilroy and think he's always done ok in green but clearly Joe doesn't feel the same but the hysteria about McFadden is laughable. He is a solid player who is more than capable of implementing our game plan, especially if we are bombing their wingers.

Strauss on the bench to me signifies that we are targeting their setpiece and ruck the entire game, rather than doing that for the first 60 mins and then trying to cut through them as they potentially tire out. Strauss is a superior in the scrum and on the deck to Cronin. I expect a very similar plan to Wales, where we show a huge amount of intensity at the ruck, give us quick ball to unleash our backrow at them over and over again. The plan is to batter this French pack so they don't know what hit them, and if they show anything like the lack of intensity they did against Italy they will be mullered. Their own ball will be constantly poached and slowed down, and our ball will be fast.

This game all comes down to their forward pack I feel. If they don't seriously up their game they will be in big trouble. They could be relying on the rub of the green to allow them take some opportunities rather than actually structuring their game to manufacture those opportunities for their very good backs. Which can work of course....but will be hard against a very structured, disciplined and hard working Irish team.

NiallBoo

awec wrote: »

He is probably the fourth best full back in that Ireland 23.

Yup, but that's not hard given how many full-backs there are.

Quint2010

molloyjh wrote: »

And the sensible reaction to the Ireland back row is:

SOB and Stander very similar players. What differing roles will each have?

Teferi

That backrow unit is something fierce.

Absolutely delighted for Dave Kearney. Delighted delighted delighted. A brace of tries on his debut, a six nations medal and he is one of only three players to play every minute of that championship. And all that with only 15 caps. What a player.

McFadden and Reddan are some weird calls, not sure they're the best players. Did Joe comment on their selection in the conference?

kilns

flangemeistro wrote: »

If you think that's good just wait till the captain incumbent O'Mahony comes back and we'll have a back row of O'Mahony, O'Brien and Stander. Wow.

The problem is none of them are better no.8's than Heaslip

former total

WeleaseWoderick wrote: »

When exactly did every Ireland team announcement and match build up turn into a moaning contest about the players being picked?

I know it's a discussion board but the default position from some people is outrage at selection as opposed to any sort of excitement about the game itself.

Having watched Ireland for the last 25 years or so, I can well remember the times when we went to Paris without a hope. We are now traveling there as 2 times Champions and having not lost to France since 2011. We should be confident in coming away with a win and keeping the defense of the Six Nations going strong.

Twas ever thus. It's just odd that there is so much moaning about a) a consistently successful team and b) the most peripheral positions in the team. ROG v Sexton was one thing, but really, Dave Kearney v Zebo is not going to affect the outcome hugely, let alone the titanic struggle between Fergus McFadden and, erm, nobody, for the 23 jersey.

I also remember the days when we went to Paris with the height of our expectations being to keep it respectable. Then this happened:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdtG3UAVSbs

Just to lighten the mood like.

awec

WeleaseWoderick wrote: »

When exactly did every Ireland team announcement and match build up turn into a moaning contest about the players being picked?

I know it's a discussion board but the default position from some people is outrage at selection as opposed to any sort of excitement about the game itself.

Having watched Ireland for the last 25 years or so, I can well remember the times when we went to Paris without a hope. We are now traveling there as 2 times Champions and having not lost to France since 2011. We should be confident in coming away with a win and keeping the defense of the Six Nations going strong.

People not being entirely happy with Irish selections is hardly a new thing. Not sure why exactly people are surprised by it.

Kidney selections had the exact same reactions.

The Rape of Lucretia

Is Ruddock or TOD on the bench? Reading both answers at the moment.

Noopti

flangemeistro wrote: »

If you think that's good just wait till the captain incumbent O'Mahony comes back and we'll have a back row of O'Mahony, O'Brien and Stander. Wow.

POM will have some job usurping any of the incumbents. No way would Heaslip be dropped to accommodate O'Mahony right now.

awec

Teferi wrote: »

That backrow unit is something fierce.

Absolutely delighted for Dave Kearney. Delighted delighted delighted. A brace of tries on his debut, a six nations medal and he is one of only three players to play every minute of that championship. And all that with only 15 caps. What a player.

McFadden and Reddan are some weird calls, not sure they're the best players. Did Joe comment on their selection in the conference?

I don't think he was asked about McFadden specifically, just why Earls or Zebo weren't picked (they're not 100%).

Noopti

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Is Ruddock or TOD on the bench? Reading both answers at the moment.

Don't know what I thought it was Ruddock!

It is TOD

irishbucsfan

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

I had a quick look at the Leinster site to see what years each player made their debut in. If it helps your cause, I could amend it to 7.5 seasons of provincial rugby?

Why don't you just say 93 caps instead of the obscurantism?

According to wikipedia, Craig Gilroy has 37 tries in 113 caps (~0.35 tries per cap). Kearney has 17 in 93 caps (~0.2 tries per cap).

former total

Teferi wrote: »

That backrow unit is something fierce.

Absolutely delighted for Dave Kearney. Delighted delighted delighted. A brace of tries on his debut, a six nations medal and he is one of only three players to play every minute of that championship. And all that with only 15 caps. What a player.

McFadden and Reddan are some weird calls, not sure they're the best players. Did Joe comment on their selection in the conference?

We don't get to hear the full press conference as they cut the feed but keep the questions going.

McFadden is the only fit winger available. He was always going to be named if two of Trimble/Earls/Zebo didn't recover. Some people deluded themselves that he was there to hold tackle bags, wouldn't play etc but sure what can you do?

Reddan, I'm not sure. I think he's better than Marmion, but have no idea why Marmion was ahead last week but slips back this week, unless Reddan was carrying a knock last week?

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

I don't think he was asked about McFadden specifically, just why Earls or Zebo weren't picked (they're not 100%).

Did he mention Jackson?

wp_rathead

Podge_irl wrote: »

Dave Kearney? He was poor against Argentina and Wasps. He has been pretty good in every other game I've seen

No, I was on about McFadden

MJohnston

WeleaseWoderick wrote: »

When exactly did every Ireland team announcement and match build up turn into a moaning contest about the players being picked?

It's the one time in the most match cycles (that being pre-match, post-match, and during-match) that certain folks who love to put down anything related to the national team can do so with the greatest amount of (what relatively speaking, for them is) authority. You'll note how rarely they appear during or after a good win, like cockroaches who only appear around a corpse.

Your best bet is to remember that they aren't really interested in rugby, just themselves.

molloyjh

Quint2010 wrote: »

SOB and Stander very similar players. What differing roles will each have?

They may not have massively different roles. This is where Heaslips versatility comes into play I reckon. He'll be doing a lot of the BS work around the pitch I reckon. That'll free the other 2 up a bit more to get involved further out.