Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

irishbucsfan

Ferg still has pace. He showed a nice turn of pace against Ulster last season. He doesn't get too many opportunities to show it. Maybe not still as quick as he was when he ran around the Racing Metro defense but he's still one of the quicker guys around.

Christy42

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

In what, a 30 meter foot race? Rugby speed and speed are different things entirely. I dont know if you've been watching him for Leinster for the past two years(when he hasnt been injured), he has zero burst or power compared to the player he was before his myriad of injuries. He's half the player he was. I say that as a Leinster fan who loved his running style, he was a poor mans Rene Ranger before he got crocked, now? He hasnt shown he is international quality.

INB4 he goes out and has a stormer on the weekend.



McFadden wont let you down defensively, he wont lose you the game but he is anemic on attack, he wont win it either. I'd put money on Gilroy, Healy pulling something out of the bag, be it pace, a line, footwork, beating defenders to score a try, I wouldnt put your money on McFadden doing the same.

At international level Gilroy and Healy will do no such thing. There simply isn't the opportunity for players who find weak spots and exploit them. You want to put 90+ points on a minnow then Gilroy is probably the first name on the team sheet. You want to beat a top quality side then he won't be near it.

CMOTDibbler

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Exactly, guys don't like the fact that Healy and Tiernan are better attackers than their favoured guys so they've just decided to fabricate that the two lads are bad positionally or defensively or something like that.

Although I'm as much a Connacht fan as an Ireland fan so things are actually looking good at the moment, Ireland are going well and Connacht are sitting proudly on top of the table with our team of guys that aren't good enough for the international team

Not fabrication, see above for actual stats.

And I am a Connacht fan, know some of the players and watch as much of their games as possible. I haven't been in the sportsground for almost a year, but that's more to do with family commitments than anything else.

The thing that annoys me is the assumption among Connacht fans that somehow the players are being treated unfairly. This despite the fact that Robbie Henshaw and Kieran Marmion got called up to the squad at a young age and have played for Ireland. If there's a player not called up then is it not likely that they need to improve aspects of their game first?

It just seems like muddled thinking to me. All kinds of emotional and unprofessional motives are applied to selections when there could just as easily (and much more likely) be logical and factual reasons for them.

NiallBoo

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Not fabrication, see above for actual stats.

Are stats for the other players being debated available?

galwaylad14

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Their stats and watching Connacht play.

In the last four games, (Dragons match stats aren't up yet), these are their cumulative defensive stats.
Player|Tackles|Missed|Turnovers
O'Halloran|8|2|5
Healy|10|2|6


That's turnovers conceded btw.

On the other side of the balance sheet, these lads make plenty of breaks and beat defenders for fun, but at international level, you just can't concede that many turnovers and win matches. Defences at that level are so good that it's virtually only turnover ball that can generate opportunities for scores.

Interesting to not that the two lads have missed less tackles between them in the last 4 matches combined than Dave Kearney missed in one World Cup match

leakyboots

Podge_irl wrote: »

Since when is the 6N some great learning experience?

It will help us going forward by giving us 2 points in the 6N table.

Ah c'mon - you don't think our inability to get beyond the 1/4s in the World Cup might be helped a little by bedding in some youngsters in the 6 Nations?

It's the nearest we have to a World Cup-level of performance, giving Marmion or McCloskey or Gilroy or whoever game-time is essential. McFadden has had his chance is now something like our 8th ranked winger. If he was in blistering form for Leinster all season fair enough.

Podge_irl

leakyboots wrote: »

Ah c'mon - you don't think our inability to get beyond the 1/4s in the World Cup might be helped a little by bedding in some youngsters in the 6 Nations?

4 years out from a world cup? No, I don't.

I don't think the problem in the world cup just gone had anything to do with not bedding in players either. It's just that the replacements simply weren't as good as the players we were missing.

The goal of any 6N match is, was and ever shall be to win that match.

CMOTDibbler

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Interesting to not that the two lads have missed less tackles between them in the last 4 matches combined than Dave Kearney missed in one World Cup match

And there you go comparing games in the Pro 12 with an international match in the World Cup.

Tackles missed can have a number of meanings statistically. For example a kick chase where the kick was too long can count as a missed tackle if the chaser doesn't tackle the fielder.

NiallBoo wrote: »

Are stats for the other players being debated available?

Just added McFadden's stats for three games. All stats from espn.co.uk. Dave and Rob Kearney haven't played enough matches in the Pro 12 since the RWC to have any statistical value.

First Up

Podge_irl wrote: »

The goal of any 6N match is, was and ever shall be to win that match.

Would agree in principle but no harm to use the squad system and (maybe) some matches to bring some guys to the next level. If we lost the first three games I don't see any harm in using the fourth to blood some new players.

Johnny Farango

Neil3030 wrote: »

I can't wait until VdF establishes himself in the Ireland setup and we can see a backrow of SOB, VdF, Heaslip, with Stander to come exploding off the bench.

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Not fabrication, see above for actual stats.

And I am a Connacht fan, know some of the players and watch as much of their games as possible. I haven't been in the sportsground for almost a year, but that's more to do with family commitments than anything else.

The thing that annoys me is the assumption among Connacht fans that somehow the players are being treated unfairly. This despite the fact that Robbie Henshaw and Kieran Marmion got called up to the squad at a young age and have played for Ireland. If there's a player not called up then is it not likely that they need to improve aspects of their game first?

It just seems like muddled thinking to me. All kinds of emotional and unprofessional motives are applied to selections when there could just as easily (and much more likely) be logical and factual reasons for them.

Would you select McFadden on form ahead of Healy? Seeing as we're proclaiming who we support, this is from a Galway living Munster fan (okay so I do have a bias towards my second team, Connacht)

Paul Smeenus

No column for senseless yellow cards?

Mr Tickle

leakyboots wrote: »

Ah c'mon - you don't think our inability to get beyond the 1/4s in the World Cup might be helped a little by bedding in some youngsters in the 6 Nations?

It's the nearest we have to a World Cup-level of performance, giving Marmion or McCloskey or Gilroy or whoever game-time is essential. McFadden has had his chance is now something like our 8th ranked winger. If he was in blistering form for Leinster all season fair enough.

I think we need to have a little patience here. Firstly we've only had 2 teams named in this 6 nations (and we don't know how the second will do) and they've been for 2 of the more difficult fixtures. These aren't the ideal games to bed in new players. perhaps we'll see something against italy, perhaps not.

Secondly the ideal time to do this would be during the autumn internationals. We didn't have those this year so it's understandable to be picking from the players he has seen work in the set-up.

In the AI's this year i imagine we'll see 6-8 or so new players/permutations tried out we'll see what works there and carry that into the next 6N. do that each year and by the time the next WC comes around we'll have plenty of new options.

we have plenty more opportunities to blood new players. Lets not panic now and throw away a trophy.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Although I'm as much a Connacht fan as an Ireland fan so things are actually looking good at the moment, Ireland are going well and Connacht are sitting proudly on top of the table with our team of guys that aren't good enough for the international team.

You can look at that another way though.

The other 3 provinces lost a good chunk of their squads for the first part of the season and have lost a good chunk of them again now. Same probably goes for the Scottish and Welsh sides.

I'm as happy as anyone to see Connacht riding high this season but if they can do it again next season when the other teams have little or no disruption to their squads then we can talk about players who aren't good enough to make the international side.

Buer

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

And there you go comparing games in the Pro 12 with an international match in the World Cup.

Are you actually trying to claim that Cordero and Imhoff are better than Ashton Hewitt and Nick Scott?

jacothelad

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CMOTDibbler

Johnny Farango wrote: »

Would you select McFadden on form ahead of Healy? Seeing as we're proclaiming who we support, this is from a Galway living Munster fan (okay so I do have a bias towards my second team, Connacht)

I know this sounds like a cop out, but I would bow to Joe's judgment above my own. In the circumstances of this being emergency cover for a wing I can't see any other option besides Gilroy who have any kind of international experience.

Of the two, McFadden is definitely the better defender and makes a lot of tackles. He seems to go looking for them because his tackle count is way higher than most wings in the provinces.

There's no doubt in my mind that Healy and O'Halloran are good attacking players. If something's holding them back, I doubt that Joe's made a secret of it and they know what they have to do. Add to that the clearly strong relationship that Joe has with Pat Lam and I would believe that if it's in those guys to step up, they'll get their opportunity.

The Rape of Lucretia

Johnny Farango wrote: »

Would you select McFadden on form ahead of Healy?

No, because I wouldnt select on form in the first place. Its a component, but only a small one of the mix that go into determining selections. Healy, miles away at the moment in the greater scheme.

The Rape of Lucretia

leakyboots wrote: »

Hmm... I'd argue Healy doesn't belong in the squad at the moment and Ross should be out to pasture.

Look, I'm not advocating wholesale changes to the team at all, but at this stage, when possible, we should be looking to the future. Now is the time to use the broom, that's why I brought up France (they're obviously in a completely different cycle to us)

No it isnt. There is a 6N championship to be played for in a difficult away game. You put out your best team to win that without compromise or other goals. You could try one, maybe two close call against Italy, not more, or for 15 mins off the bench if the game is well won. McCloskey may be close. Thats probably it at the moment.
Other players play themselves in during the spring tours and AIs.

CMOTDibbler

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Canto is back

http://www.the42.ie/lynne-cantwell-column-six-nations-ireland-france-2597401-Feb2016/

Yet another reason for her to be given the main job on RTE.

The Rape of Lucretia

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Although I'm as much a Connacht fan as an Ireland fan so things are actually looking good at the moment, Ireland are going well and Connacht are sitting proudly on top of the table with our team of guys that aren't good enough for the international team.

They arent. That they might be is delusional. They have not played enough games, well enough, at a high enough level, let alone 'easier' or friendly internationals, or been part of a cycle of being involved in the final squad coaching. No case for picking a significant cohort of them. A handful are involved. Correctly. But that the limit.

The Rape of Lucretia

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Interesting to not that the two lads have missed less tackles between them in the last 4 matches combined than Dave Kearney missed in one World Cup match

I think it says more about what you find interesting or how you judge international level players, more than Dave's tackling.

CMOTDibbler

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Yet another reason for her to be given the main job on RTE.

Different Cantwell...!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Deleted User wrote: »

Different Cantwell...!

I cantwell them apart.... eh? eh?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I cantwell them apart.... eh? eh?

Mr.Applepie

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I would like to see an Ireland B squad selected to play The Barbarians, defence and systems thrown out the window. Just for the craic, like.

Being honest though if our current team were told to just go out and do whatever they liked I'm sure they'd do quite nicely.

No they wouldn't. As evidence please see MOC's tenure where he apparently gave the team a lot more freedom to play.

galwaylad14

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

They arent. That they might be is delusional. They have not played enough games, well enough, at a high enough level, let alone 'easier' or friendly internationals, or been part of a cycle of being involved in the final squad coaching. No case for picking a significant cohort of them. A handful are involved. Correctly. But that the limit.

Here here, keep filling it with players from teams below us in the table and that have all tanked in Europe for the last two years.

Quint2010

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Yet another reason for her to be given the main job on RTE.

So is this Lynne Cantwell the Irish rugby player?

galwaylad14

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Here here, keep filling it with players from teams below us in the table and that have all tanked in Europe for the last two years.

No offence, but this is one of those posts I really wouldn't make until you actually win something.

CMOTDibbler

Quint2010 wrote: »

So is this Lynne Cantwell the Irish rugby player?

Yep.

BoardsMember

Just thinking about our back row options. It must be one of the strongest and Irish team has ever had, and looks like it will be getting better over the next year or two as well.

thomond2006

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Here here, keep filling it with players from teams below us in the table and that have all tanked in Europe for the last two years.

At least we were actually in Europe to begin with.

its_phil

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Here here, keep filling it with players from teams below us in the table and that have all tanked in Europe for the last two years.

Ah here a bit of context for crying out loud.

Tox56

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No offence, but this is one of those posts I really wouldn't make until you actually win something.

Or at least actually qualify for the competition you are slamming the other teams for failing in?!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Mr.Applepie wrote: »

No they wouldn't. As evidence please see MOC's tenure where he apparently gave the team a lot more freedom to play.

I don't remember MOC being Irish coach?

aimee1

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Here here, keep filling it with players from teams below us in the table and that have all tanked in Europe for the last two years.

how many points did connacht score in the RDS on new years day?

JPNelsforearm

BoardsMember wrote: »

Just thinking about our back row options. It must be one of the strongest and Irish team has ever had, and looks like it will be getting better over the next year or two as well.

Ah, in recent vintage Id say Ferris, Wallace and Heaslip edges it, all played together at pretty much top form for a few games. Neither SOB nor Heaslip are running in 6th gear, atm, still far and away the best options in the near future, but not as good as they have been.

stephen_n

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Here here, keep filling it with players from teams below us in the table and that have all tanked in Europe for the last two years.

Yes sure lets pick the Connacht team in total to play for Ireland, clearly they would be better than the ones that have won back to back championships. Of course Fionn Carr will be the 23.

stephen_n

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Ah, in recent vintage Id say Ferris, Wallace and Heaslip edges it, all played together at pretty much top form for a few games. Neither SOB nor Heaslip are running in 6th gear, atm, still far and away the best options in the near future, but not as good as they have been.

Take it you missed the game last Sunday, maybe you should watch it.

LostArt

aimee1 wrote: »

how many points did connacht score in the RDS on new years day?

some say they're still there, trying aimlessly to cross the half way line

wp_rathead

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Here here, keep filling it with players from teams below us in the table and that have all tanked in Europe for the last two years.

Ahh now c'mon, not really helping your argument with posts like that

aimee1 wrote: »

how many points did connacht score in the RDS on new years day?

LostArt wrote: »

some say they're still there, trying aimlessly to cross the half way line

Tad unnecessary

galwaylad14

LostArt wrote: »

some say they're still there, trying aimlessly to cross the half way line

Well we scored the same amount of actual tries that Leinster did. Just we didn't have George Clancy there to randomly award us a try for no reason

CMOTDibbler

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Well we scored the same amount of actual tries that Leinster did. Just we didn't have George Clancy there to randomly award us a try for no reason

Of course he did.

This was beaten to death on the match thread. Just because you don't know the laws dealing with the TMO, doesn't mean that they're not out to get you. :rolleyes:

molloyjh

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Well we scored the same amount of actual tries that Leinster did. Just we didn't have George Clancy there to randomly award us a try for no reason

Jesus, do we really need to be put through this again? You're knocking a team that are 6 points behind you in the league with 2 games in hand and an almost certain 5 pointer coming up today. A team that nilled you only a few weeks ago. A team that has, just this season, failed in a competition that you've never qualified for off your own steam (but has as many European trophies as the other 3 provinces combined). A team with a history of winning trophies when you've won nothing. Please, for the sake of your integrity and everyone else's sanity, stop digging.

Bazzo

Good to see as per usual the debate on selections has descended it completely ****ing stupid provincialism on both sides.

CMOTDibbler

Bazzo wrote: »

Good to see as per usual the debate on selections has descended it completely ****ing stupid provincialism on both sides.

There are only two sides? :eek: :pac:

The Rape of Lucretia

wp_rathead wrote: »

Ahh now c'mon, not really helping your argument with posts like that

Tad unnecessary

Good though.

JPNelsforearm

Bazzo wrote: »

Good to see as per usual the debate on selections has descended it completely ****ing stupid provincialism on both sides.

Not totally, Im a Leinster fan and think Ferg shouldnt be there

The weshties deserve their moment in the sun, usually its Munster fans bemoaning Dennis Hurley types and *insert munster backrow* not being picked ahead of Heaslip:D

rsh118

Ferris is definitely working to make his name as a rentagob these days, but he's certainly articulating thoughts every Ulster fan has had at some point.

Perhaps we'll have to find a coach to lead us to 2 Heineken's who will inevitably then be picked up by the IRFU? How hard can it be??

Billysays no

gilroy doing his best to prove joe wrong tonight. but i guess if your not joe's type your not joe's type

Podge_irl

Billysays no wrote: »

gilroy doing his best to prove joe wrong tonight. but i guess if your not joe's type your not joe's type

Against the mighty Lee Jones and Rory Hughes.