Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

aimee1

astonaidan wrote: »

You make a good point, the only argument Id have is why they werent called up to the squad at the start to get familiar with the moves then released back to provinces, this is more a IRFU problem though

Simple enough reason is cant have too many at training otherwise its unmanageable. I would guess im some areas like prop and lock (bealham, dillane) were necessary given injuries there and we were short moore, ross, henderson, poc retired etc.

JS seems to have 35 as a preferred number for a reason. Two titles in a row would suggest he has his ideas on the money.

aimee1

astonaidan wrote: »

I am putting it into context infairness, both TOH and Gilroy are well able to cover FB and wing and have been miles ahead of Fergus this season.

Madigan covers 10-12-15
McFadden covers 11-13-14 ( he replaced bod in 2014 v italy and scored a try)

Scythica

The main problem is have with the non blooding of new players right now is this line of "it's a rwc seeding year we'll do it in the summer."

I'm fairly certain when summer comes and going to SA that people will still say that over there isn't the right place to blood players and it should be at home and it's a seeding year so need our strongest team...

So then you're onto playing NZ... we going to blood players then?? No, because it's a seeding year and we want to beat them.

Then it's a 6n playing for a lions tour which leads to a non important Irish tour and before we know it it could be 2018 with players still waiting for their shot in a full strength team around them.

I hope I'm wrong.

(I'm not talking revolution but it would be nice to see likes of McCloskey play, Olding and ringrose to get a chance and marmion to get a crack too)

Scythica

Scythica wrote: »

The main problem is have with the non blooding of new players right now is this line of "it's a rwc seeding year we'll do it in the summer."

I'm fairly certain when summer comes and going to SA that people will still say that over there isn't the right place to blood players and it should be at home and it's a seeding year so need our strongest team...

So then you're onto playing NZ... we going to blood players then?? No, because it's a seeding year and we want to beat them.

Then it's a 6n playing for a lions tour which leads to a non important Irish tour and before we know it it could be 2018 with players still waiting for their shot in a full strength team around them.

I hope I'm wrong.

(I'm not talking revolution but it would be nice to see likes of McCloskey play, Olding and ringrose to get a chance and marmion to get a crack too)

Stander is a new cap. Furlong is barely in the door, that's 2. Henshaw and Payne have what 8 - 10 caps each? McCarthy has how many?

I think what most people are annoyed about isn't new caps, it's who they think should be getting them because we've a very inexperienced team out there relatively speaking.

sydthebeat

Scythica wrote: »

The main problem is have with the non blooding of new players right now is this line of "it's a rwc seeding year we'll do it in the summer."

I'm fairly certain when summer comes and going to SA that people will still say that over there isn't the right place to blood players and it should be at home and it's a seeding year so need our strongest team...

So then you're onto playing NZ... we going to blood players then?? No, because it's a seeding year and we want to beat them.

Then it's a 6n playing for a lions tour which leads to a non important Irish tour and before we know it it could be 2018 with players still waiting for their shot in a full strength team around them.

I hope I'm wrong.

(I'm not talking revolution but it would be nice to see likes of McCloskey play, Olding and ringrose to get a chance and marmion to get a crack too)

non blooding of new players???

i though this was put to bed

ireland named 4 uncapped players as part of their squada for this 6nations.

wales named 1 uncapped player
scotland named 2

england named 7 and france named 8.... but we have seen from the recent past that this follows a common trait for france and england ... one of not winning anything ! (and being crap in the RWC!)

i think we are doing just fine as we are, and this "non blooding" thing is simply a media myth.

Scythica

Yes I agree and it's good to see. However, how much of those 2 getting starts was down to injury we just don't really know.

I know I was looking at it with a glass half empty outlook but it's a scenario that could foreseeable happen

aimee1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Stander is a new cap. Furlong is barely in the door, that's 2. Henshaw and Payne have what 8 - 10 caps each? McCarthy has how many?

I think what most people are annoyed about isn't new caps, it's who they think should be getting them because we've a very inexperienced team out there relatively speaking.

VdF, Ringrose, Dillane, Bealham, McCloskey, J Cronin, Marmion all involved in extended squad too. Not sure if luke mcgrath was too but it's not as if JS is ignoring new players.

Jack McGrath has become a star under JS.

sydthebeat

joe Schmidt has given debuts to 18 players in 27 moths of rugby....

those players are:

Jack McGrath
Dave Kearney
Martin Moore
Jordi Murphy
Robbie Diack
Kieran Marmion
Rodney Ah You
James Cronin
Noel Reid
Rob Herring
Jared Payne
Dave Foley
Dominic Ryan
Robin Copeland
Jack Conan
Nathan White
Tadhg Furlong

aimee1

Scythica wrote: »

Yes I agree and it's good to see. However, how much of those 2 getting starts was down to injury we just don't really know.

I know I was looking at it with a glass half empty outlook but it's a scenario that could foreseeable happen

Unless we play a game against japan or georgia for example as a non test game and throw 7-8 newbies into the side it is always going to be new guys drip fed into the team. JS has had to replace Darce/BOD axis and now POC.

He is doing so while trying to stay competitive.

CMOTDibbler

aimee1 wrote: »

Madigan covers 10-12-15
McFadden covers 11-13-14 ( he replaced bod in 2014 v italy and scored a try)

He was a lot more popular then...

aimee1

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

He was a lot more popular then...

Lol very good forgot about that tweet

molloyjh

wp_rathead wrote: »

ara sure it's just six nations season :cool:
it gets like this every year
I remember when Kidney kept picking Donnacha O'Callaghan this place was going mental :P

Well in fairness if Kidney was doing as well as Schmidt I'm not sure there would have been the same level of complaint. Plus I think the complaints there were that he was getting selected ahead of Ryan who was ahead of him at Munster and clearly the better player. Kidney wasn't exactly known for his technical abilities as coach so the whole "familiarity with the systems" wasn't close to being as applicable.

And it hasn't just been the international window either, as others have mentioned. It's been pretty constant since the Argentina game. There was a lot of whinging done after Joes first game against Australia but since then there's been very little to complain about. That was until the RWC QF anyway. It's as if people have been sitting there biding their time and now that there's a sniff of something negative they have 2 years worth of whinging to catch up on.

NiallBoo

former total wrote: »

For all the abuse directed at Joe this week..

I think to be fair, people are still very much in favour of Joe and some (including myself) are just nitpicking the details.

I wouldn't read it as "he's doing a bad job" so much as "I think if he did "X" that things would be a tiny bit better".

Even though I don't agree with all of his selections, they're all very good players. If they weren't we wouldn't even know who they were!

And ya'know, it's an opinion site and opinions aren't facts. If opinions weren't allowed on boards there'd be only one thread and it world be called "opinions aren't allowed on this site [closed]".

NiallBoo

sydthebeat wrote: »

joe Schmidt has given debuts to 18 players in 27 moths of rugby....

I'm not disagreeing with you but I think the numbers are skewed a bit by how over-due new blood was when he took over.

CMOTDibbler

NiallBoo wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with you but I think the numbers are skewed a bit by how over-due new blood was when he took over.

I think Kidney's tenure was bookended by an influx of new players. Some of them perhaps not long term solutions but at the end there were players like Marshall, Archer, Hagan, McLaughlin and; strangely enough, Fergus McFadden.

bilston

Scythica wrote: »

(I'm not talking revolution but it would be nice to see likes of McCloskey play, Olding and ringrose to get a chance and marmion to get a crack too)

Ringrose will get his chance, no doubt about that and if it wasn't for injury I'd say Olding would most like be nailed into the starting team now never mind the squad.

Marmion and McCloskey are funny ones because their problem is there are other players who could usurp them as the cause celebre of the fans pretty quickly. I've already mentioned Olding and Ringrose with regards to McCloskey and in Luke McGrath you have someone who could do the same to Marmion soon. They probably need to get their chances sooner rather than later to be honest.

Marmion will always be in the squads for the forseeable future as there only is Murray and McGrath moving forward but McCloskey could easily become the next gen Darren Cave.

OldRio

NiallBoo wrote: »

I think to be fair, people are still very much in favour of Joe and some (including myself) are just nitpicking the details.

I wouldn't read it as "he's doing a bad job" so much as "I think if he did "X" that things would be a tiny bit better".

Even though I don't agree with all of his selections, they're all very good players. If they weren't we wouldn't even know who they were!

And ya'know, it's an opinion site and opinions aren't facts. If opinions weren't allowed on boards there'd be only one thread and it world be called "opinions aren't allowed on this site [closed]".

One has to remember Niall, that on this particular board. All opinions are equal but some opinions are more equal than others.

CMOTDibbler

bilston wrote: »

Ringrose will get his chance, no doubt about that and if it wasn't for injury I'd say Olding would most like be nailed into the starting team now never mind the squad.

Marmion and McCloskey are funny ones because their problem is there are other players who could usurp them as the cause celebre of the fans pretty quickly. I've already mentioned Olding and Ringrose with regards to McCloskey and in Luke McGrath you have someone who could do the same to Marmion soon. They probably need to get their chances sooner rather than later to be honest.

Marmion will always be in the squads for the forseeable future as there only is Murray and McGrath moving forward but McCloskey could easily become the next gen Darren Cave.

It's a bit like the bus. You wait for a decade for a new centre and four turn up at once

Olding and Ringrose look like a straight fight for 13, McCloskey and Henshaw for 12.

Marmion is a disappointment. He might have got a bit closer this season but it's taken far longer than expected. Luke McGrath may well overtake him and at Connacht there's Caolin Blade who I think has a higher ceiling,

bilston

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

It's a bit like the bus. You wait for a decade for a new centre and four turn up at once

Olding and Ringrose look like a straight fight for 13, McCloskey and Henshaw for 12.

Marmion is a disappointment. He might have got a bit closer this season but it's taken far longer than expected. Luke McGrath may well overtake him and at Connacht there's Caolin Blade who I think has a higher ceiling,

I think Olding may end up at FB although he himself prefers 12.

12 Henshaw
13 Ringrose
15 Olding

You could swap Robbie and Stu but basically that's the core of our backline for the next two World Cups IMO.

CMOTDibbler

bilston wrote: »

I think Olding may end up at FB although he himself prefers 12.

12 Henshaw
13 Ringrose
15 Olding

You could swap Robbie and Stu but basically that's the core of our backline for the next two World Cups IMO.

No room for TOH? The Connacht lads will be frothing.

b.gud

For people who are bemoaning players not getting capped thus 6 Nations it's worth remembering that Robbie Henshaw was in camp in 2013 and 2014 without getting a cap.

He was close to getting one when BOD was an injury doubt. He was running lines at 13 in training with BOD just behind him telling him what to do. He also didn't get much of a luck in during autumn internationals around this time.

As a Connacht fan it was noticeable that every time he came back from Irish camp he stepped up another level. As an Irish fan you'd have to say that being involved with the squad on a number of occasions was hugely beneficial to Robbie when he finally made the step up he was really ready and made a huge impact.

I hope a few of the uncapped players get a chance to feature during the 6N, McCloskey in particular, but if they don't I have no doubt that they, their provinces and the national team will be the better for it in the long run

CMOTDibbler

b.gud wrote: »

He was close to getting one when BOD was an injury doubt. He was running lines at 13 in training with BOD just behind him telling him what to do. He also didn't get much of a luck in during autumn internationals around this time.

As a Connacht fan it was noticeable that every time he came back from Irish camp he stepped up another level. As an Irish fan you'd have to say that being involved with the squad on a number of occasions was hugely beneficial to Robbie when he finally made the step up he was really ready and made a huge impact.

This to me is the essence of Joe Schmidt as a coach. Watching Leinster during his tenure, it just seemed that there was a conveyor belt of talent coming through, freshly minted and ready to go. Lads just seemed to slot in seemlessly from a few bench starts and before you knew it you'd be looking at a team sheet and thinking that there were no weaknesses anywhere. Somebody would get injured and there'd be no panic, the second choice and third choice would be; if not a direct replacement, a different dynamic that would add something.

Often it would be a case of watching a match and looking forward to the bench coming on.

It's taken longer at national level because by its nature it's a much shorter time frame. If you add up the weeks that Joe's had his squads together at this stage (even including the RWC) I doubt it would add up to one season at Leinster.

Bazzo

former total wrote: »

For all the abuse directed at Joe this week, it's a great sign that the selection people are so incensed about is the reserve outside back. It shows that, despite all the accusations of Leinster bias, conservatism and whatever else, people fundamentally agree with what he's doing but just need something to rant about.

There is ALWAYS at least one selection that, regardless of who is picked or how the team is doing, brings down all sorts of invective on Joe's head. It's just the way of the Internet. So it's McFadden's turn this week. Grand. Earls will be back next week and the greatest injustice since <Hook-esque biblical reference> will be righted once more.

So yeah, let's get behind the team. WOOOOOOO

I'm not the biggest fan of the McFadden selection. I know why it was done but I think if other players had been involved from an earlier stage then it would have been unnecessary. I think there are probably a few regular posters of the same opinion.

I'd like to think I'm not one of the lunatics who drops in every now and again to have a huge whinge about sweet **** all/some invented problem. :P

molloyjh

Bazzo wrote: »

I'm not the biggest fan of the McFadden selection. I know why it was done but I think if other players had been involved from an earlier stage then it would have been unnecessary. I think there are probably a few regular posters of the same opinion.

I'd like to think I'm not one of the lunatics who drops in every now and again to have a huge whinge about sweet **** all/some invented problem. :P

In fairness most aren't. I can understand a certain level of frustration at McFaddens selection because his form is poor at the moment. And people saying things like that are fine. The problem is we can only have so many guys in camp at one time, both from an Irish point of view (too many will limit the effectiveness of training) and from a provincial point of view (the provinces still have games they need to play).

We started off with Fitzgerald, Earls, Trimble, Zebo, Rob Kearney and Dave Kearney in the squad. That's plenty. Even when Fitzy was injured we didn't need to bring anyone in to replace him. You could argue that someone should have been brought in when Fitzy went out, but that's with the benefit of hindsight. Losing another 2 wingers to injury would be a fairly unforeseeable event. When was the last time we lost 3 wingers from a squad like that?

We were always going to have a very limited chance to train so bringing in anyone who isn't hugely familiar with what we're looking to do was never on. And Gilroy, great and all as he is going forward, could quite easily get exposed in Paris. While Ferg hasn't been great going forward he has certainly been very solid defensively. Plus he knows the set-up very well. Being unenthused by Fergs selection is fine, refusing to acknowledge the above realities is what winds some of us up.

captbarnacles

rsh118 wrote: »

I'd almost forgotten the pain

Ha. I was always optimistic by my Dad knew better. The biennial hammering by France was grim to watch.

mansize

Miserable weather here in Saint Dennis, security is high so arrived early - no problems.


Bring on the rugby!!!

Itssoeasy

mansize wrote: »

Miserable weather here in Saint Dennis, security is high so arrived early - no problems.


Bring on the rugby!!!

Not to go off topic but I forgot the fact they're be a hightened security presence.

mansize

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Not to go off topic but I forgot the fact they're be a hightened security presence.

Unsurprisingly the place is on high alert. Armed guards, searched twice. Fair enough IMHO

wp_rathead

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

No room for TOH? The Connacht lads will be frothing.

Ha, I know that's a joke but I'd fecking love see Olding at FB for Ireland

b.gud wrote: »

For people who are bemoaning players not getting capped thus 6 Nations it's worth remembering that Robbie Henshaw was in camp in 2013 and 2014 without getting a cap.

He was close to getting one when BOD was an injury doubt. He was running lines at 13 in training with BOD just behind him telling him what to do. He also didn't get much of a luck in during autumn internationals around this time.

As a Connacht fan it was noticeable that every time he came back from Irish camp he stepped up another level. As an Irish fan you'd have to say that being involved with the squad on a number of occasions was hugely beneficial to Robbie when he finally made the step up he was really ready and made a huge impact.

I hope a few of the uncapped players get a chance to feature during the 6N, McCloskey in particular, but if they don't I have no doubt that they, their provinces and the national team will be the better for it in the long run

Great point - Dillane seems to have gone up a level since being involved

Clegg

That was a bit crap. England away isn't the time to make loads of changes, but I hope we'll see a few new faces for the Scotland and Italy games. Would like to see McCloskey in there somewhere.

CatFromHue

Thing about bringing in McCloskey though is that Henshaw and Payne played well today so you're making a change just to make a change.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

CatFromHue wrote: »

Thing about bringing in McCloskey though is that Henshaw and Payne played well today so you're making a change just to make a change.

McCloskey doesn't have to start. We're running out of wingers to bench now anyway so why not throw McCloskey on there.

its_phil

CatFromHue wrote: »

Thing about bringing in McCloskey though is that Henshaw and Payne played well today so you're making a change just to make a change.

Then when do we do it, when they pick up an injury? Why can't we move Henshaw or Payne to FB and McCloskey to 12. Is it really going to severely weaken the team?

I'm not saying Henshaw and Payne shouldn't be our first choice Center partner, but let's have a look at the three together on the pitch.

The Rape of Lucretia

For Twickers :

McGrath
Best
Furlong
Toner
McCarthy
Stander
Ruddock
Heaslip
Murray
Sexton
Earls
Henshaw
Payne
Trimble
Kearney

awec

CatFromHue wrote: »

Thing about bringing in McCloskey though is that Henshaw and Payne played well today so you're making a change just to make a change.

They did?

wp_rathead

awec wrote: »

They did?

imo yes

The Rape of Lucretia

awec wrote: »

They did?

I though they were good alright. Payne especially.
Neither were part of any problem meriting dropping. That would be way harsh and counterproductive.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Dave K out for "some time" according to Schmidt. AC injury.

wp_rathead

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Dave K out for "some time" according to Schmidt. AC injury.

flip, he was having a good game before he went off

AbusesToilets

As usual, we have to rely on injury to open up opportunities for new players to get a chance.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

wp_rathead wrote: »

flip, he was having a good game before he went off

Depending on how Earls and Zebo are with their injuries we could be going to play England with one winger.

aimee1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Depending on how Earls and Zebo are with their injuries we could be going to play England with one winger.

If they had fitness tests on thursday I would guess they were touch and go for today so in two weeks should be fine

wp_rathead

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Depending on how Earls and Zebo are with their injuries we could be going to play England with one winger.

if McFadden starts boards.ie will melt:pac:

you'd assume they'll be back fit

The Rape of Lucretia

AbusesToilets wrote: »

As usual, we have to rely on injury to open up opportunities for new players to get a chance.

McFadden isnt exactly a new player, but expectations are that Earls should be fit I think.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

wp_rathead wrote: »

if McFadden starts boards.ie will melt:pac:

you'd assume they'll be back fit

Earls I'd assume was just too soon with the head knock, Zebo's knee looked pretty stiff and heavily strapped on Thursday.

AbusesToilets

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

McFadden isnt exactly a new player, but expectations are that Earls should be fit I think.

You don't find it frustrating that form continues to be ignored in favor of "safe" players? It's across the board in the team, McCluskey, Marshall, Gilroy, Dillane Buckley, Marmion, Jackson.

Billysays no

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Depending on how Earls and Zebo are with their injuries we could be going to play England with one winger.

Its a thundering disgrace that we havn't another winger worth their salt in the whole of Ireland!!!

awec

Billysays no wrote: »

Its a thundering disgrace that we havn't another winger worth their salt in the whole of Ireland!!!

We do, they just aren't totally solid in defence.

I think today proved that you can't pick a back line based solely on defence. This must surely serve as a realisation that you have to have some form of attacking threat in there even if it does come at a cost in defence.

swiwi_

What I would chuck out for the next game anyway from 9 to 15 and 21 to 23

Murray, Sexton, Earls, McCloskey, Henshaw, Zebo, Payne

Marmion, Jackson, (if only Fitzgerald was fit - not really sure for the 23 shirt, maybe Gilroy deserves a shot again...)

mansize

I'd give Gilroy a spot on the bench