Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

aimee1

Scythica wrote: »

Apologies for the double post but:

Who all are we expecting to be back in contention by the Eng game?

Earls, zebo, ross, healy.

SOB i would guess is a major doubt and McCarthy has RTP to go through.

Bowe, POM, Henderson, Fitz, DK defo out

Scythica

aimee1 wrote: »

Earls, zebo, ross, healy.

SOB i would guess is a major doubt and McCarthy has RTP to go through.

Bowe, POM, Henderson, Fitz, DK defo out

I imagine Ross and Healy will be parachuted into the 23 if they can prove fitness. Would hopefully go a way to shore up our scrum as that English one proves scary. I'm a bit worried they'll realise how good Itoje is today and he'll start against us.

Earls to 11 and Zebo as 23 too. Don't think any other wingers would have a shot.

Perhaps Henry will be added to the squad given he's back, although seemed a bit off the pace against Glasgow.

Utah_Saint

Scythica wrote: »

I imagine Ross and Healy will be parachuted into the 23 if they can prove fitness. Would hopefully go a way to shore up our scrum as that English one proves scary. I'm a bit worried they'll realise how good Itoje is today and he'll start against us.

Earls to 11 and Zebo as 23 too. Don't think any other wingers would have a shot.

Perhaps Henry will be added to the squad given he's back, although seemed a bit off the pace against Glasgow.

Henry's form isn't great at the minute....But he's familiar with the systems and can play 2 positions so he fits the criteria for selection

aimee1

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Henry's form isn't great at the minute....But he's familiar with the systems and can play 2 positions so he fits the criteria for selection

Stander, Heaslip, TOD. Ruddock on bench. Backrow isnt a big issue. Its tight 5 and the make up of the backline 11-15

Utah_Saint

aimee1 wrote: »

Stander, Heaslip, TOD. Ruddock on bench. Backrow isnt a big issue. Its tight 5 and the make up of the backline 11-15

I meant to add the same to my post...we are actually coming down with quality back rows

aimee1

Wales 50
Scotland 47
France 28
Ireland 25

Kicking stats :-o

slingerz

For me McCloskey is the key player being overlooked. We've never had a centre oh his size before and what that would mean for us on the attack would be huge

Keeping the likes of Reddan/Boss over Marmion/McGrath is criminal also. McFadden over Healy/Gilroy similar. Jack McGrath has played almost 160 minutes so far yet James Cronin has been in superb form for Munster and is a good scrummager also. Denis Buckley another worth a shot.

Schmidt is being ultra conservative and wouldn't have given Stander his shot if not for injuries in the backrow for the Wales game

Scythica

Scythica wrote: »

Without being all doom and gloom...

Does the seedings matter that much?

We got no further last year having a good seeding. And Eng had a good seeding for the last one... didn't help.

Would 'dropping' to the 3rd rank seed but getting a team into a RWC cycle (which Schmidt could take the idea way - fingers crossed) be such a bad idea?

I agree though, the 6N is the breadwinner and I think the IRFU will pressure Schmidt for results. Living in England the amount of abuse I get when Ireland don't win is insane, hopefully we get a few people back from injuries before Eng match!

Ranking mean very little. All Blacks were top ranked team going into RWC, won all their matches, and still had a harder path to the final than Aussie.

More important thing is peaking for a World Cup, than having a favourable seed.

aimee1 wrote: »

Wales 50
Scotland 47
France 28
Ireland 25

Kicking stats :-o

What about try, offload, clean break stats?

CMOTDibbler

slingerz wrote: »

For me McCloskey is the key player being overlooked. We've never had a centre oh his size before and what that would mean for us on the attack would be huge

Keeping the likes of Reddan/Boss over Marmion/McGrath is criminal also. McFadden over Healy/Gilroy similar. Jack McGrath has played almost 160 minutes so far yet James Cronin has been in superb form for Munster and is a good scrummager also. Denis Buckley another worth a shot.

Schmidt is being ultra conservative and wouldn't have given Stander his shot if not for injuries in the backrow for the Wales game

Boss isn't in the squad. Marmion seems to have hit a plateau and not improved although there are signs this year that he may be.

James Cronin came on against Wales and got folded like a deck chair in his first scrum. Buckley would be a hope but he's either just back from injury or about to be, so he's not had any time with the squad yet.

Stander got in the first team on merit, not injuries. Ruddock and VdF were both in the squad.

aimee1

slingerz wrote: »

For me McCloskey is the key player being overlooked. We've never had a centre oh his size before and what that would mean for us on the attack would be huge

Keeping the likes of Reddan/Boss over Marmion/McGrath is criminal also. McFadden over Healy/Gilroy similar. Jack McGrath has played almost 160 minutes so far yet James Cronin has been in superb form for Munster and is a good scrummager also. Denis Buckley another worth a shot.

Schmidt is being ultra conservative and wouldn't have given Stander his shot if not for injuries in the backrow for the Wales game

Boss hasnt been seen since the rwc. And barring major injury crisis wont be again. Marmion and Luke mcgrath will get more involved as this year goes on.

Buckley was injured til 2 weeks ago. McFadden was called up because of injuries. He was even named by leinster on thursday before Zebo failed a fitness test.

CMOTDibbler

Basil3 wrote: »

Ranking mean very little. All Blacks were top ranked team going into RWC, won all their matches, and still had a harder path to the final than Aussie.

More important thing is peaking for a World Cup, than having a favourable seed.

England suffered because Wales were ranked in the third tier. That meant a very difficult pool with three top nations in it. That's why seeding matters.

Basil3 wrote: »

What about try, offload, clean break stats?

We had a couple of clean breaks that weren't collated. Trimble was through but called back incorrectly for a knock on. Same with Henshaw who dotted down, but that wasn't checked either for a knock on.

It may well have been, but there was enough doubt to at least have checked.

Pink Fairy

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's also not a lot more than he normally would given he did it the entire time he was at Leinster. Not a valid excuse.

I'm sorry... I'm slow today... Are you agreeing with me ? Cant tell ....I need sleep!!

Bazzo

aimee1 wrote: »

Thats not down to RK. He came into the line 2-3 times today and very nearly got clear a few times. He tried one offload when it wasnt on . Our biggest issues in attack to me seem to be in the centres. It is a manufactured midfield and McCloskey needs to be given a go there. If that means Henshaw gets a go at full back with an eye on the future then it needs to happen.

Can't disagree with this more. Both Payne and Henshaw showed promising half breaks and I remember Henshaw offloading definitlely and think Payne got at least one away too, the problem was that we were completely toothless in attack on the wings. I do agree with moving Henshaw to full back though, it's always been his best position, he thrives with the extra space and once a guy his size gets those few extra seconds to get going he's nearly impossible to stop(also why I think he's wasted at 12).

Even though I said I was disappointed with White last week I think Furlong was a noticeable disimprovement yesterday, letting Moore go to England was a huge slip up on the part of the IRFU. Decent tight heads are like hens teeth in Ireland at the moment.

Pink Fairy

Bazzo wrote: »

Can't disagree with this more. Both Payne and Henshaw showed promising half breaks and I remember Henshaw offloading definitlely and think Payne got at least one away too, the problem was that we were completely toothless in attack on the wings. I do agree with moving Henshaw to full back though, it's always been his best position, he thrives with the extra space and once a guy his size gets those few extra seconds to get going he's nearly impossible to stop(also why I think he's wasted at 12).

Even though I said I was disappointed with White last week I think Furlong was a noticeable disimprovement yesterday, letting Moore go to England was a huge slip up on the part of the IRFU. Decent tight heads are like hens teeth in Ireland at the moment.

Yeah, its an area where the project player scheme should come into play imo

CMOTDibbler

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

England suffered because Wales were ranked in the third tier. That meant a very difficult pool with three top nations in it. That's why seeding matters.

True, but if you're struggling to make it out of your pool, you won't the tournament.

We had a couple of clean breaks that weren't collated. Trimble was through but called back incorrectly for a knock on. Same with Henshaw who dotted down, but that wasn't checked either for a knock on.

It may well have been, but there was enough doubt to at least have checked.

It's actually one thing that annoys me with rugby these days. 'Knock-ons' that don't go forward being called as a knock on. I guess over the course of a match, they can balance out, and it's always better for a match to flow. I can think of a few occasions yesterday where Ireland benefitted from incorrect calls regarding knock-ons or forward passes, but in the end none of them had any bearing on the match, so not a huge deal.

Bazzo

Also, am I the only one that finds it disgraceful that the French can go to the media and say they're going to "target Sexton" and then have Maestri get away with a blatant cheap shot on him? I didn't have a problem with the same in the world cup because they actually did it legally, but if Maestri has actually been told by management to make sure to give Sexton a belt at any cost that's really shocking stuff.

Saw him grabbing the back of Best's head and shoving his face in to the ground at a ruck at some point too, maybe I'm just not a Maestri fan.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Bazzo wrote: »

Also, am I the only one that finds it disgraceful that the French can go to the media and say they're going to "target Sexton" and then have Maestri get away with a blatant cheap shot on him? I didn't have a problem with the same in the world cup because they actually did it legally, but if Maestri has actually been told by management to make sure to give Sexton a belt at any cost that's really shocking stuff.

Saw him grabbing the back of Best's head and shoving his face in to the ground at a ruck at some point too, maybe I'm just not a Maestri fan.

I'd assume all teams identify the player on the opposing team who pulls the strings or who should be shut down but that's a tactical thing. France v Sexton seems like an entirely different matter. I don't think I've seen them to it to anyone else on any of the other teams.

rsh118

Look, all teams devise a strategy to combat the other team's best players, that is unlikely to change. But the Maestri elbow is symtomatic of something more than that in my view.

Even at full speed, it is nowhere near being just a timing thing. It's a clear and deliberate shot at the head of a player who has had a spate of concussions.

Bazzo

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I'd assume all teams identify the player on the opposing team who pulls the strings or who should be shut down but that's a tactical thing. France v Sexton seems like an entirely different matter. I don't think I've seen them to it to anyone else on any of the other teams.

rsh118 wrote: »

Look, all teams devise a strategy to combat the other team's best players, that is unlikely to change. But the Maestri elbow is symtomatic of something more than that in my view.

Even at full speed, it is nowhere near being just a timing thing. It's a clear and deliberate shot at the head of a player who has had a spate of concussions.

Exactly, he looked to deliberately concuss a player who he knew had had some trouble with concussions. I find it pretty ****ing deplorable that any player would deliberately try to get in what they know could be a career ending hit on another player, and not even anywhere near to legally at that.

errlloyd

Basil3 wrote: »

What about try, offload, clean break stats?

We have more clean breaks than Wales for sure. (7 to 5). I think you'll find we also have 3 times as many offloads as Wales.

Our game plan isn't actually conservative. We're willing to play the ball. We havent box kicked all that much. We havent tried to milk penalties. I wouldn't be.

Our players just aren't finishing breaks or completing moves. Kearney break yesterday was a bloody good move, for instance.

Bazzo

Bazzo wrote: »

Exactly, he looked to deliberately concuss a player who he knew had had some trouble with concussions. I find it pretty ****ing deplorable that any player would deliberately try to get in what they know could be a career ending hit on another player, and not even anywhere near to legally at that.

Sorry. What happened to sexton was nothing compared to what goes on on a rugby pitch. When you sensationalise the intent, it's very hard to take you seriously.

shootermacg

Looking at the papers and on here, Joe is getting roasted. He provided Ireland with the game-plan. They should have been out of sight after the first half but for poor handling. We knew going in that we had to make hay, until they brought out their real front row, we didn't take our chances, of which we had many.

You can only blame the players (or lack of) and the 6 day turn around for that. An international coach, in his own words, simply doesn't have enough time with the players to drill their ball skills endlessly, that's down to their club coach and themselves.

Bazzo

Basil3 wrote: »

Sorry. What happened to sexton was nothing compared to what goes on on a rugby pitch. When you sensationalise the intent, it's very hard to take you seriously.

I've played rugby from u10s all the way up so I'm hardly foreign to what goes on on the pitch. Mostly you look to absolutelty ****ing rattle somebody as legally as you can, it's within the rules, you expect it, it's fine. I never could and never will be able to stand cheap shots.

I might be coming across a bit sensationalist now but it's just because I find anything off the ball like that so hard to swallow. Also, saying that I was sensationalising the intent is a bit of a stretch seeing as the French actually went to the media saying they were going to hammer Sexton, surely that's as much proof of intent as you need?

phog

Beating England has to be a goal now though it's never an easy task. We're lucky in that we have a weeks break in the lead up to it. Give some lads a chance to get back from I jury or rest sore bodies.

It's going to be a very disappointing 6Ns one way or the now but losing to England will be a killer for team and fans.

connemara man

We also have to remember that the IRFU budget on at least placing fourth in the 6 nations so as much as I'd like some changes that surely has to be taken into consideration on top of the seedings

Bazzo

Bazzo wrote: »

I've played rugby from u10s all the way up so I'm hardly foreign to what goes on on the pitch. Mostly you look to absolutelty ****ing rattle somebody as legally as you can, it's within the rules, you expect it, it's fine. I never could and never will be able to stand cheap shots.

I might be coming across a bit sensationalist now but it's just because I find anything off the ball like that so hard to swallow. Also, saying that I was sensationalising the intent is a bit of a stretch seeing as the French actually went to the media saying they were going to hammer Sexton, surely that's as much proof of intent as you need?

Your accusation was that they were trying to concuss him. I'm yet to see any proof that it was more than a hip/shoulder barge. Even the papers are saying it was an elbow to the head. It might have been, but the live footage from the pitch doesn't show that.

Bazzo

Basil3 wrote: »

Your accusation was that they were trying to concuss him. I'm yet to see any proof that it was more than a hip/shoulder barge. Even the papers are saying it was an elbow to the head. It might have been, but the live footage from the pitch doesn't show that.

Look, he'll almost 100% be cited for it and I'll trust the citing committee to give him what's fair.*

*Plus 2 weeks off for dressing nicely and saying yes sir no sir.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Basil3 wrote: »

Your accusation was that they were trying to concuss him. I'm yet to see any proof that it was more than a hip/shoulder barge. Even the papers are saying it was an elbow to the head. It might have been, but the live footage from the pitch doesn't show that.

Yeah, I'm in agreement that the attention Sexton gets goes beyond the normal targeting a key player gets but you can't really speak of intention with something like that, especially when it comes to concussion. You can't really set out to concuss someone. I mean you're talking assault there really.

rsh118

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Yeah, I'm in agreement that the attention Sexton gets goes beyond the normal targeting a key player gets but you can't really speak of intention with something like that, especially when it comes to concussion. You can't really set out to concuss someone. I mean you're talking assault there really.

I'm sure we've all thrown the odd late tackle, or the odd 'sorry-I-ran-into-you-I-couldn't-stop' but it's the combination of what happened added to the talk pre the last two matches which is damning I think.

Maestri was probably not trying to concuss him, but intentional rattling needs to happen a lot quicker and look a lot more like a tackle than that muck.

Buer

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Yeah, I'm in agreement that the attention Sexton gets goes beyond the normal targeting a key player gets but you can't really speak of intention with something like that, especially when it comes to concussion. You can't really set out to concuss someone. I mean you're talking assault there really.

I wouldn't say they've ever set out to concuss him but they walk a very, very fine line in terms of how they target him and do so more than any other nation we regularly encounter. French rugby tends to take a different approach often in this regard and, traditionally, is a hell of a lot tougher and dirtier than rugby in Ireland and the UK.

French teams are, to my mind, more likely to go after a lynchpin type player such as Sexton particularly one who puts himself in the path of the physical elements of the game.

Not including yesterday, which was clearly a deliberate attempt to hurt him, he has suffered multiple injuries and concussions against French teams. Most accidental such as the one with Bastareaud last year but a number that were malicious and looked to be deliberate. He had his jaw broken against Toulon by Craig Burden who swung a high arm at his face after the ball was gone. He previously had his jaw broken by Morgan Parra at a ruck who did similar, taking him out off the ball.

When these things happen in isolation, sure, it's part and parcel of the game. But, as much as people might want to claim it's coincidental, a pattern has emerged over his career in terms of the heavy hits he has shipped with French teams being regularly involved.

Pink Fairy

shootermacg wrote: »

Looking at the papers and on here, Joe is getting roasted. He provided Ireland with the game-plan. They should have been out of sight after the first half but for poor handling. We knew going in that we had to make hay, until they brought out their real front row, we didn't take our chances, of which we had many.

You can only blame the players (or lack of) and the 6 day turn around for that. An international coach, in his own words, simply doesn't have enough time with the players to drill their ball skills endlessly, that's down to their club coach and themselves.

So we're now blaming the provinces for irelands failure? I dont remember anyone but Joe getting the congrats when we won back to back 6n do you?

Utah_Saint

Can you imagine if we beat England by 7-10 points. We'll be back to world beaters lol

The range of emotions on here is a Freudian dream...

kilns

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Can you imagine if we beat England by 7-10 points. We'll be back to world beaters lol

Irish sports fan have very short memories. It was only 5 months ago that we were going to win the World Cup. Now we are worse than Scotland according to some

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Can you imagine if we beat England by 7-10 points. We'll be back to world beaters lol

The range of emotions on here is a Freudian dream...

I only started posting in here last summer but in my brief time here I have witnessed every emotion and reaction mankind is capable of. Perhaps even some brand new ones never before seen.

I would love to see people experience day to day life with such emotional intensity.

Child takes first steps "THIS IS THE GREATEST BABY IN THE HISTORY OF BABIES! WE'RE GOING TO THE OLYMPICS! "

Child removes own nappy and leaves it on kitchen floor for you to step in. "WIFE! THIS BABY HAS BEEN GIVEN MORE THAN ENOUGH OPPORTUNITY TO PROVE HIMSELF! I HAVE NO SON!! WE MUST ADOPT A NEW ZEALAND BABY, THEY ARE BETTER BABIES!"

Buer

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Can you imagine if we beat England by 7-10 points. We'll be back to world beaters lol

We probably will be in the minds of many but, in reality, we're exactly where we are now. We're a decent side but somewhat limited.

If you look at our starting team in isolation, it's not good enough to go to Paris and win. That's a simple fact. McGrath, Best, Heaslip, SOB, Stander, Murray, Sexton, Henshaw, Payne...those are the only guys who are currently at test standard that started the game yesterday.

We have guys who can step up to the level and go above themselves (for example, Mike McCarthy did yesterday) but we also have several guys who can make costly errors from that first group (for example, Robbie Henshaw did yesterday). We also have guys such as Dave Kearney, Devin Toner, Andrew Trimble, Tommy O'Donnell and Nathan White who are the best available to us but will never be at the level of what we consistently require at this level.

If we start winning again, we'll need to weather this storm and bring some new blood into the side. It happens with every international side. We're in a position where we can't really afford to bring through the burgeoning talent when the 6N is on the line given it's an absolutely critical period for the financial well being of the game in the country. But I would be very disappointed if we don't see 4-5 new caps this summer if not before then now.

It's a good thing for the likes of Gatland (3 titles) and Laporte (4 titles) weren't Irish coaches these days as the public would have been screaming for their heads before they became the most successful 6N coaches of the modern era.

phog

kilns wrote: »

Irish sports fan have very short memories. It was only 5 months ago that we were going to win the World Cup. Now we are worse than Scotland according to some

We saw how that ended :mad:

I might be generalising but to me it seems if we win a few games we're world beaters and if we lose a few we're for the scrap heap. The truth lies somewhere in between.

Buer

phog wrote: »

We saw how that ended :mad:

I might be generalising but to me it seems if we win a few games we're world beaters and if we lose a few we're for the scrap heap. The truth lies somewhere in between.

It's a uniquely Irish mentality. We're completely boom or bust and knee jerk as a population.

We're the first ones to pat ourselves on the back when something goes well but look out because there's a knife in the other hand destined for the same back as soon as it goes awry.

jacothelad

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

They dont have better 'claims'. There are no claims. 'Form' also is a red herring people trot out. This is not international rugby of old, where a few good games or showy displays for your club or province got you noticed and gave you a 'claim' to a starting international place - and amateur, or amateurish coaches and selectors (remember them : 5 of them !) would roll the dice on form players, hope they were up to international level, and that a team performance would gel and resutl. In many cases, players would have gotten their 'call-up' (wow, all these archaic terms) and been given 'a run'.

But that is the past. Form today, over a period, brings you into the extended squad. For training sessions over a year or more. Then maybe the restricted squad and some time in a minnow summer game, off the bench in the Autumn, or against the minnow in the AIs. Then, if you are still in form for your club, have done well in the minor trial games, and are fully up to speed and have the teams systems down pat in training, if an opening comes, you might get your chance. Flinging in the likes of Healy, Ringrose, FVdF, etc, is just the height of fancy in modern professional international rugby.
Much of the chit-chat is still in the amateur era.

"Form today, over a period, brings you into the extended squad. For training sessions over a year or more. Then maybe the restricted squad and some time in a minnow summer game, off the bench in the Autumn, or against the minnow in the AIs. Then, if you are still in form for your club, have done well in the minor trial games, and are fully up to speed and have the teams systems down pat in training, if an opening comes, you might get your"..........pension

aimee1 wrote: »

Thats not down to RK. He came into the line 2-3 times today and very nearly got clear a few times. He tried one offload when it wasnt on . Our biggest issues in attack to me seem to be in the centres. It is a manufactured midfield and McCloskey needs to be given a go there. If that means Henshaw gets a go at full back with an eye on the future then it needs to happen.

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Henry's form isn't great at the minute....But he's familiar with the systems and can play 2 positions so he fits the criteria for selection

I wouldn't have Henry in because his 'totally irrelevant form' isn't great...but hey... he knows the systems, has been in camp, knows how Jamie likes his Cappuccino etc. Therefore, as you say, he should be called up according to the wisdom on here. Form apparently is just a bit of a laugh and a red herring.

Playing badly but having held tackle bags before is the vital bit, just in case if you are new, you are apparently likely to be so stupid that you can't grasp simple rugby ploys. It's not how you are playing it's who you trained with in former Ireland camps that matters. In the name of Darwin, have you ever read such tedious bilge.

You would think that being in the Ireland set up is similar to studying advance mathematics or string theory. If Stander - a man whose first language isn't English - can scrape by then I'm pretty sure all those well educated, Public School boys might have a chance of understanding the 'systems'.

Systems is a good word. Makes it sound really complicated. It certainly doesn't look complicated. Ireland's defence statistically is the best out of all the top 8 teams, conceding the fewest points on average. That's one bit that's great. What needs to happen is for the attack to match the defence.

For all those calling for McCloskey to be called in, remember this, his main assets are
1) Breaking the line, attracting defenders and then off loading to supporting runners. Now we know this is not how Schmidt wants things done so his main weapon is negated by the 'system'.

2) He is great at causing turnovers by holding players up and forming a maul . Well that might be a plus but hardly a reason to select a player......especially one who doesn't know the 'systems'...which apparently must be as complicated as proving Fermat's Last Theorem. For those of you who are interested, no three positive integers, a, b, and c satisfy the equation an + bn = cn for any integer value of n greater than two. The cases n = 1 and n = 2 are known to have infinitely many solutions. Apparently it's easier to write a proof of this than to learn Schmidt's game plan.

I'm pretty much convinced that the guys selected are in the main the right ones who are available but for the sake of sanity, bin this crap about 'knowing Joe's schemes.' You'd need to be brain dead not be able to do so. Someone above said the wings were ineffective yesterday. Well Trimble made - again - a number of try saving tackles but neither he nor D.K. ever got any attacking ball. How anyone expects wings to 'contribute' when they don't actually get the ball is a mystery. Maybe this is one of Joe's systems.

Of players I would replace from yesterday I would definitely replace Cronin with Buckley even if Healy is available. Now I know Buckley hasn't been in camp - blah, blah, blah ...yawn but Healy has looked way of form.. Feck. I've done it again... mentioned the 'F' word when we know it doesn't matter how badly a guy is playing just so long as he knows the 'systems'. Cronin has looked like a deck chair in both his games so far in the scrum - surprisingly.
I'd bring back Ross if he's fit in place of Furlong.
I'd start Ryan and have Dillane on the bench....ach. Sorry. There's another one of those golden rules broken. You can't start a guy in his first game in Twickenham...or Stade de France...or Millennium Stadium....Balls to that.
Ruddock to start....TOD to bench.

The backs as is apart from bringing in a wing - Zebo or Earls and Marmion over Reddan. Time for the retirement plan for him.

kilns

We went to Paris with our 3rd choice tighthead

Remember the last time we went to an away 6 nations game like that, it was a complete embarrasment

We have a small pool of players and we always punched above our weight, due to heart, coaching and organisation

Too many knee jerk reactions out there

We have spoilt the last few years between country and provinces

swiwi_

Buer I don't think most people are unrealistic about the Irish team given all the injuries.

But Schmidt is bordering on being a woeful selector at the moment. Fergus McFadden is just a dreadful selection devoid of all imagination. It was Kidney-esque. I mean there a number of fellas playing well for their provinces and Fergus barely threatens a top Leinster 23 yet he gets the call. It's not like he has a history of excellence at international either which might have justified the likes of Bowe getting a call despite lack of form.

There is no way yesterday's selection is winning in London, maybe it's already a lost cause but I wish the man would show some balls in selection.

aimee1

jacothelad wrote: »

"Form today, over a period, brings you into the extended squad. For training sessions over a year or more. Then maybe the restricted squad and some time in a minnow summer game, off the bench in the Autumn, or against the minnow in the AIs. Then, if you are still in form for your club, have done well in the minor trial games, and are fully up to speed and have the teams systems down pat in training, if an opening comes, you might get your"..........pension





I wouldn't have Henry in because his 'totally irrelevant form' isn't great...but hey... he knows the systems, has been in camp, knows how Jamie likes his Cappuccino etc. Therefore, as you say, he should be called up according to the wisdom on here. Form apparently is just a bit of a laugh and a red herring.

Playing badly but having held tackle bags before is the vital bit, just in case if you are new, you are apparently likely to be so stupid that you can't grasp simple rugby ploys. It's not how you are playing it's who you trained with in former Ireland camps that matters. In the name of Darwin, have you ever read such tedious bilge.

You would think that being in the Ireland set up is similar to studying advance mathematics or string theory. If Stander - a man whose first language isn't English - can scrape by then I'm pretty sure all those well educated, Public School boys might have a chance of understanding the 'systems'.

Systems is a good word. Makes it sound really complicated. It certainly doesn't look complicated. Ireland's defence statistically is the best out of all the top 8 teams, conceding the fewest points on average. That's one bit that's great. What needs to happen is for the attack to match the defence.

For all those calling for McCloskey to be called in, remember this, his main assets are
1) Breaking the line, attracting defenders and then off loading to supporting runners. Now we know this is not how Schmidt wants things done so his main weapon is negated by the 'system'.

2) He is great at causing turnovers by holding players up and forming a maul . Well that might be a plus but hardly a reason to select a player......especially one who doesn't know the 'systems'...which apparently must be as complicated as proving Fermat's Last Theorem. For those of you who are interested, no three positive integers, a, b, and c satisfy the equation an + bn = cn for any integer value of n greater than two. The cases n = 1 and n = 2 are known to have infinitely many solutions. Apparently it's easier to write a proof of this than to learn Schmidt's game plan.

I'm pretty much convinced that the guys selected are in the main the right ones who are available but for the sake of sanity, bin this crap about 'knowing Joe's schemes.' You'd need to be brain dead not be able to do so. Someone above said the wings were ineffective yesterday. Well Trimble made - again - a number of try saving tackles but neither he nor D.K. ever got any attacking ball. How anyone expects wings to 'contribute' when they don't actually get the ball is a mystery. Maybe this is one of Joe's systems.

Of players I would replace from yesterday I would definitely replace Cronin with Buckley even if Healy is available. Now I know Buckley hasn't been in camp - blah, blah, blah ...yawn but Healy has looked way of form.. Feck. I've done it again... mentioned the 'F' word when we know it doesn't matter how badly a guy is playing just so long as he knows the 'systems'. Cronin has looked like a deck chair in both his games so far in the scrum - surprisingly.
I'd bring back Ross if he's fit in place of Furlong.
I'd start Ryan and have Dillane on the bench....ach. Sorry. There's another one of those golden rules broken. You can't start a guy in his first game in Twickenham...or Stade de France...or Millennium Stadium....Balls to that.
Ruddock to start....TOD to bench.

The backs as is apart from bringing in a wing - Zebo or Earls and Marmion over Reddan. Time for the retirement plan for him.

One thing which we are doing right is defence. We conceded on average 10.5 points per game in the two 6n we won. Thats 13 after 2 games so far this year so even with a much changed team we are doing a lot right. That is with a side [23] much changed from the France game in the RWC. So the players coming in have got that bit spot on.

kilns

Has Joe ever used the phrase himself "systems" I think it was a buzzword Shane Horgan came out with and has stuck

As for the McFadden call, its arguing over guys who are way down the pecking order and overall there isnt much difference between. Its not like its McFadden over Bowe or anything like that.

Bazzo

kilns wrote: »

Has Joe ever used the phrase himself "systems" I think it was a buzzword Shane Horgan came out with and has stuck

As for the McFadden call, its arguing over guys who are way down the pecking order and overall there isnt much difference between. Its not like its McFadden over Bowe or anything like that.

I don't know why people keep saying this. Just because it's a selection for 4th or 5th choice or whatever doesn't make it less relevant. McFadden played what 50-60 minutes yesterday so it actually is quite relevant.

Those selections are being discussed because the first choice 23 largely selects itself.

Buer

swiwi_ wrote: »

Buer I don't think most people are unrealistic about the Irish team given all the injuries.

But Schmidt is bordering on being a woeful selector at the moment. Fergus McFadden is just a dreadful selection devoid of all imagination. It was Kidney-esque. I mean there a number of fellas playing well for their provinces and Fergus barely threatens a top Leinster 23 yet he gets the call. It's not like he has a history of excellence at international either which might have justified the likes of Bowe getting a call despite lack of form.

There is no way yesterday's selection is winning in London, maybe it's already a lost cause but I wish the man would show some balls in selection.

I wouldn't disagree on McFadden. I don't know what he brings to the table and there was a reason he wasn't in the wider squad initially.

I do hope we see some changes for England. Whatever about Ross being fit for his pension, he comes back into the team, for me. There absolutely has to be a rejig in the back line, too. The midfield is solid defensively (try aside) but has the incision of a spoon in attack whether that's by design or personnel.

After yesterday, I would try and use England to bring in McCloskey or even Luke Marshall who has gone well this season too. Whilst people are calling for Gilroy, I don't see what he's going to do when the ball isn't getting into his hands and the issues are inside the wingers (where Earls should be back anyway).

We do really lack players with incision though. Gilroy has it. Fitzgerald has it. Earls has it. But they can all go through a game without providing a moment. We need 2-3 of those sort of guys in a team which we don't really have in terms of their overall game.

I think we will see changes in England. I just don't think they're the changes people want.

kilns

Bazzo wrote: »

I don't know why people keep saying this. Just because it's a selection for 4th or 5th choice or whatever doesn't make it less relevant. McFadden played what 50-60 minutes yesterday so it actually is quite relevant.

Those selections are being discussed because the first choice 23 largely selects itself.

Its because there is not much difference between the 3 guys in question. It comes down to personal preference really, (they each have their strengths and weaknesses) and what what province you support it seems.

davegrohl48

You would think Mccloskey suits the current tactics. Big and powerful. He would be a big stepup in getting over the gainline.

Rightwing

kilns wrote: »

Irish sports fan have very short memories. It was only 5 months ago that we were going to win the World Cup. Now we are worse than Scotland according to some

Scotland play a much nicer brand of rugby than we do, and I wouldn't be in the slightest bit surprised if they beat us.

kilns

Rightwing wrote: »

Scotland play a much nicer brand of rugby than we do, and I wouldn't be in the slightest bit surprised if they beat us.

So would you prefer playing a nice brand of rugby and losing to everyone?

Pudsy33

Rightwing wrote: »

Scotland play a much nicer brand of rugby than we do, and I wouldn't be in the slightest bit surprised if they beat us.

Any time Scotland get a chance to best anyone, they blow it. I'd fancy Italy to beat us before Scotland.

Rightwing

kilns wrote: »

So would you prefer playing a nice brand of rugby and losing to everyone?

But when we start to lose, then that's when the pressure mounts.

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Any time Scotland get a chance to best anyone, they blow it. I'd fancy Italy to beat us before Scotland.

They are improving, but the bottom line is they don't have players. Cotter is doing all that can be done with them i.e. being competitive.