Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

swiwi_

kilns wrote: »

So would you prefer playing a nice brand of rugby and losing to everyone?

You're assuming cause and effect.

Scotland lost yesterday in large part because of their set-piece and a bit of weak defence on North.

Their nice brand of rugby netted then a couple of tries, the second of which Ireland could only dream of at the moment.

swiwi_

swiwi_ wrote: »

You're assuming cause and effect.

Scotland lost yesterday in large part because of their set-piece and a bit of weak defence on North.

Their nice brand of rugby netted then a couple of tries, the second of which Ireland could only dream of at the moment.

Hogg going off really hurt them too, he's their best player by a distance imo.

case885

kilns wrote:

So would you prefer playing a nice brand of rugby and losing to everyone?

We've better players than Scotland so its not comparable.
We also have a mental edge compared to Scotland considering we won two championships, they seem to crack mentally towards the end of games.

swiwi_

Harley Uptight Light wrote: »

Hogg going off really hurt them too, he's their best player by a distance imo.

Yeah he's the exact kind of player the lions 100% should take to NZ. Thought Tommy Seymour was excellent as well. I reckon Scotland should drop ford to the bench.

errlloyd

swiwi_ wrote: »

You're assuming cause and effect.

Scotland lost yesterday in large part because of their set-piece and a bit of weak defence on North.

Their nice brand of rugby netted then a couple of tries, the second of which Ireland could only dream of at the moment.

Swiwi what exactly was special about Duncan Taylor's try? Just seemed to me that they used hands through the backs, passer got his hands free and Taylor was unmarked. Preistland put in a shocking attempt.

kilns

So we lose one six nations match and people are calling for us to use the worst team in the six nations as a blueprint to move on

swiwi_

errlloyd wrote: »

Swiwi what exactly was special about Duncan Taylor's try? Just seemed to me that they used hands through the backs, passer got his hands free and Taylor was unmarked. Preistland put in a shocking attempt.

You make it sound simple errlloyd...

From memory the whole sequence leading up showed width and endeavour from the Scots, they certainly were fairly ambitious on attack thru the match I thought.

Gutted for Leicester, off topic I know...

shootermacg

Pink Fairy wrote: »

So we're now blaming the provinces for irelands failure? I dont remember anyone but Joe getting the congrats when we won back to back 6n do you?

Yes, that's a good starting point. I don't see any team playing out of their skins this year. But please, enlighten me.

You say Joe won back to back, yeah he tailored a game to suite the limited handling skills of his team. The fact of the matter is, Irish rugby is limited, by injury, the club coaches and the weather.

We weren't exactly setting the world alight, when DK won the slam. Samoa, Fiji all play "exiting" rugby and win nothing.

Rightwing

kilns wrote: »

So we lose one six nations match and people are calling for us to use the worst team in the six nations as a blueprint to move on

NZ would have put 60+ points on France yesterday. Argentina maybe 40.

It's not the loss that is the problem. We are rudderless, but luckily the 6N is a weak tournament.

shootermacg

Rightwing wrote: »

NZ would have put 60+ points on France yesterday. Argentina maybe 40.

It's not the loss that is the problem. We are rudderless, but luckily the 6N is a weak tournament.

Soccer people aren't asking why we aren't beating the top tier nations. Maybe the world has come full circle and the soccer fans are now better fans that the rugby fans!??!!

case885

shootermacg wrote:

You say Joe won back to back, yeah he tailored a game to suite the limited handling skills of his team. The fact of the matter is, Irish rugby is limited, by injury, the club coaches and the weather.

Climate certainly doesn't hamper NZ and they get as much rain as we do.
The excuses will still be hashed out to stick to the game plan like glue.

kilns

Rightwing wrote: »

NZ would have put 60+ points on France yesterday. Argentina maybe 40.

It's not the loss that is the problem. We are rudderless, but luckily the 6N is a weak tournament.

and France would have beaten Scotland by 20+

Its irrelevant, we are Ireland , nobody else. We have a limited pool of players and and when not at full strength we punch well above our weight

To many George Hooks on this forum

Rightwing

shootermacg wrote: »

Soccer people aren't asking why we aren't beating the top tier nations. Maybe the world has come full circle and the soccer fans are now better fans that the rugby fans!??!!

They are. That's what cost Trap his job. An ugly style, and when results went against him in the Euros his game was up.

Schmidt needs to go back to basics, what made him successful or he will go the way of Kidney.

errlloyd

swiwi_ wrote: »

You make it sound simple errlloyd...

From memory the whole sequence leading up showed width and endeavour from the Scots, they certainly were fairly ambitious on attack thru the match I thought.

Gutted for Leicester, off topic I know...

I remember watching it and being more surprised then impressed with that try. My mother is Scottish and I support them. I'm not saying it was bad, but it wasn't some stunning love Ireland are incapable of imo.

I thought they played very well, but there was an awful lot of "let's kick the leather off the ball and Tommy Seymour will catch it". Or basically the exact game plan most posters in here don't want Ireland to use.

shootermacg

Rightwing wrote: »

They are. That's what cost Trap his job. An ugly style, and when results went against him in the Euros his game was up.

Schmidt needs to go back to basics, what made him successful or he will go the way of Kidney.

An international coach simply doesn't have the time to work on basic skills. Maybe Joe is better suited to the club game, where he can micro manage each aspect of a team's training, I don't know, what I do know is, international coaches are conservative in their selection, mostly because of the pressures of their mandate and particularly because of public scrutiny.

The simple fact is, because of all the moaners (journalists looking for hits, being the chief protagonists, oh, and pony lovers) an international coach is under a ridiculous amount of pressure to live in the now and not for the future.

I'm not saying his selection is spot on, people will always play top trumps, but he sees these players in training and has a wealth of experience.

He's shown more than a few times that he can do the business.

Rightwing

shootermacg wrote: »

An international coach simply doesn't have the time to work on basic skills. Maybe Joe is better suited to the club game, where he can micro manage each aspect of a team's training, I don't know, what I do know is, international coaches are conservative in their selection, mostly because of the pressures of their mandate and particularly because of public scrutiny.

The simple fact is, because of all the moaners (journalists looking for hits, being the chief protagonists, oh, and pony lovers) an international coach is under a ridiculous amount of pressure to live in the now and not for the future.

I'm not saying his selection is spot on, people will always play top trumps, but he sees these players in training and has a wealth of experience.

He's shown more than a few times that he can do the business.

I tend to agree with a lot of this.

But he needs to go back to what made him successful at Clermont and Leinster, not easy to do, but he must do it.

shootermacg

case885 wrote: »

Climate certainly doesn't hamper NZ and they get as much rain as we do.
The excuses will still be hashed out to stick to the game plan like glue.

This kind of argument is the usual old crap, you cherry pick a single something and then use a unrealistic premise to try to score a point.

In NZ rugby is the religion, they could play it on the moon and still turn you over. Now go back to sleep.

kilns

At least ireland dont have the monopoly on injuries

Italy dropping like flies

Buer

Rightwing wrote: »

But he needs to go back to what made him successful at Clermont and Leinster, not easy to do, but he must do it.

Whilst I'd love to see that, every played from 11-15 in those sides were better than the 11-15 that took the field for Ireland yesterday. In the case of Rob Kearney, he was in far better form than he has been of late.

The 2011 versions of Fitzgerald, Nacewa, Horgan, D'Arcy, BOD and 2010 versions of Malzieu, Rougerie, Fofana, Joubert and Nalaga would all have started for Ireland yesterday.

errlloyd

Buer wrote: »

Whilst I'd love to see that, every played from 11-15 in those sides were better than the 11-15 that took the field for Ireland yesterday. In the case of Rob Kearney, he was in far better form than he has been of late.

The 2011 versions of Fitzgerald, Nacewa, Horgan, D'Arcy, BOD and 2010 versions of Malzieu, Rougerie, Fofana, Joubert and Nalaga would all have started for Ireland yesterday.

This is very true.

wp_rathead

kilns wrote: »

We went to Paris with our 3rd choice tighthead

Remember the last time we went to an away 6 nations game like that, it was a complete embarrasment

We have a small pool of players and we always punched above our weight, due to heart, coaching and organisation

Too many knee jerk reactions out there

We have spoilt the last few years between country and provinces

Nathan White was very competitive in the scrum I thought- until Noves brought on Slimani, who is arguably the best scrummaging LH in rugby atm

Joe is not above criticism, some of the hyperbole being thrown around is abit cringey I'll admit but it doesn't mean everything is rosey in the garden either

JPCN1

swiwi_ wrote: »

Buer I don't think most people are unrealistic about the Irish team given all the injuries.

But Schmidt is bordering on being a woeful selector at the moment. Fergus McFadden is just a dreadful selection devoid of all imagination. It was Kidney-esque. I mean there a number of fellas playing well for their provinces and Fergus barely threatens a top Leinster 23 yet he gets the call. It's not like he has a history of excellence at international either which might have justified the likes of Bowe getting a call despite lack of form.

There is no way yesterday's selection is winning in London, maybe it's already a lost cause but I wish the man would show some balls in selection.

Have to agree that McFadden has no business in any Ireland team. A committed but limited player. Think Kearney snr also not doing enough to justify his place. I'd go with McCloskey 12, Ringrose 13, and Henshaw at 15. We desperately need a creative midfielder.

sydthebeat

wp_rathead wrote: »

Nathan White was very competitive in the scrum I thought- until Noves brought on Slimani, who is arguably the best scrummaging LH in rugby atm

Joe is not above criticism, some of the hyperbole being thrown around is abit cringey I'll admit but it doesn't mean everything is rosey in the garden either

agreed.

we may all have different opinions on how he plays the hand he given.... with justification.

yet its the posters who refuse to acknowledge the limited power of his hand that are the most grating.

yes, (in poker parlance) he may choose to hold the 2 8's in his hand and draw three from the deck as the safe option with the hope of drawing trips or two pair.... whereas some posters would prefer he looses one 8 and the heart, in the hopes to fill the possible blue that his other 3 cards offer.

case885

shootermacg wrote:

This kind of argument is the usual old crap, you cherry pick a single something and then use a unrealistic premise to try to score a point.

Can you prove your point that our climate puts us at a disadvantage?

shootermacg wrote:

In NZ rugby is the religion, they could play it on the moon and still turn you over. Now go back to sleep.

NZ are so good now that they can beat us without gravity :O I must be dreaming

Buer

sydthebeat wrote: »

agreed.

we may all have different opinions on how he plays the hand he given.... with justification.

yet its the posters who refuse to acknowledge the limited power of his hand that are the most grating.

yes, (in poker parlance) he may choose to hold the 2 8's in his hand and draw three from the deck as the safe option with the hope of drawing trips or two pair.... whereas some posters would prefer he looses one 8 and the heart, in the hopes to fill the possible blue that his other 3 cards offer.

If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes should fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.

sydthebeat

JPCN1 wrote: »

Have to agree that McFadden has no business in any Ireland team. A committed but limited player. Think Kearney snr also not doing enough to justify his place. I'd go with McCloskey 12, Ringrose 13, and Henshaw at 15. We desperately need a creative midfielder.

so give two young players who have never played together at senior level their international debuts away in twickenham, in positions which requires a strong partnership, in an team with a pack depleted seriously by injury .....

serious question... would you REALLY??

we are in fire fighting mode now

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

JPCN1 wrote: »

Have to agree that McFadden has no business in any Ireland team. A committed but limited player. Think Kearney snr also not doing enough to justify his place. I'd go with McCloskey 12, Ringrose 13, and Henshaw at 15. We desperately need a creative midfielder.

This Ringrose nonsense has to stop.

Payne has shown over the past 2 weeks why he's essential to the Ireland team. You want to drop him entirely to include a kid who, although undoubtedly talented, hasn't even played a full season of senior rugby. Not to mention the likes of Olding and Marshall who should be ahead of him in the pecking order right now.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Henshaw's departure from Connacht confirmed.

aimee1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

This Ringrose nonsense has to stop.

Payne has shown over the past 2 weeks why he's essential to the Ireland team. You want to drop him entirely to include a kid who, although undoubtedly talented, hasn't even played a full season of senior rugby. Not to mention the likes of Olding and Marshall who should be ahead of him in the pecking order right now.

With payne at 13 we retain the defensive solidity to enable more risks in attack. Needs to be a balance

JPCN1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

This Ringrose nonsense has to stop.

Payne has shown over the past 2 weeks why he's essential to the Ireland team. You want to drop him entirely to include a kid who, although undoubtedly talented, hasn't even played a full season of senior rugby. Not to mention the likes of Olding and Marshall who should be ahead of him in the pecking order right now.

Payne solid defensively but doesn't offer enough in attack imo. Bear in mind that was a very poor French midfield.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

JPCN1 wrote: »

Payne solid defensively but doesn't offer enough in attack imo. Bear in mind that was a very poor French midfield.

And you want to replace him with a guy who we have no idea of what he can do at international level, in attack or defense.

Pink Fairy

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Henshaw's departure from Connacht confirmed.

To where? ....as if we need to ask

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Pink Fairy wrote: »

To where? ....as if we need to ask

It hasn't been announced but Murray Kinsella said on twitter it's his understanding that he's already signed a central contract with Leinster.

johnnyryan89

Any word on when Irelands long term injury list of O'Mahony and Henderson are meant to be due back?

Pink Fairy

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

It hasn't been announced but Murray Kinsella said on twitter it's his understanding that he's already signed a central contract with Leinster.

His understanding? The dogs in the street knew he was going to Leinster. The only shock is it's a central contract.
If I was a Connacht fan I'd be a little pissed at the IRFU right about now

aimee1

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Any word on when Irelands long term injury list of O'Mahony and Henderson are meant to be due back?

Next season

wp_rathead

Pink Fairy wrote: »

His understanding? The dogs in the street knew he was going to Leinster. The only shock is it's a central contract.
If I was a Connacht fan I'd be a little pissed at the IRFU right about now

why? he was always going to be offered a Central Contract by IRFU

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Any word on when Irelands long term injury list of O'Mahony and Henderson are meant to be due back?

O'Mahony reckons he could be back for the end of Munster's season. Said a few weeks ago that he should have a more specific timeline in a few weeks, so soonish?

Henshaw will likely have been offered a central contract regardless of where he goes. After that he will move where he feels like he has his best chance of winning silverware and where he will get the best coaching.

Wherever that is, it's his personal and no doubt very informed decision.

Buer

Pink Fairy wrote: »

His understanding? The dogs in the street knew he was going to Leinster. The only shock is it's a central contract.
If I was a Connacht fan I'd be a little pissed at the IRFU right about now

It would only have been a shock if it hadn't been a central contract.

Mahatma Geansai

Henshaw is the type of player that Leinster can build their next backline around. Their current backline is give-or-take the worst its been in memory, and the addition of a very good international back is something Leinster needed.

Bazzo

Deleted User wrote: »

Henshaw will likely have been offered a central contract regardless of where he goes. After that he will move where he feels like he has his best chance of winning silverware and where he will get the best coaching.

Wherever that is, it's his personal and no doubt very informed decision.

It's a fair assumption that he moved for silverware but I don't get the coaching part, there's about 0 indication that the coaching ticket at Leinster is better than Connacht, and why would we assume that Henshaw thinks it is??

Mahatma Geansai

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Henshaw is the type of player that Leinster can build their next backline around. Their current backline is give-or-take the worst its been in memory, and the addition of a very good international back is something Leinster needed.

Its an odd one. Leinster keep producing plenty of backs but none are able to break in ahead of the incumbents bar the likes of Ringrose. The rest go abroad or to other provinces like Conway to Munster. Probably should have held onto him as he's been by far Munsters best back this season.

Actually with all the talk about Gilroy it's a wonder Conway isn't getting a whiff, very little between them.

Hagz

Are you joking? Conway is barely at the standard required for European rugby. He's completely headless.

Pink Fairy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Henshaw will likely have been offered a central contract regardless of where he goes. After that he will move where he feels like he has his best chance of winning silverware and where he will get the best coaching.

Wherever that is, it's his personal and no doubt very informed decision.

He's got a much better coach where he is, a team that is going very much in the right direction, and where he's going could stunt Ringrose's development, just not the signing Leinster needed imo

Pink Fairy

Pink Fairy wrote: »

He's got a much better coach where he is, a team that is going very much in the right direction, and where he's going could stunt Ringrose's development, just not the signing Leinster needed imo

Surely having Henshaw, the nailed on Irish 12 playing inside him is going to be good for Ringrose no?

Anyway, Henshaw clearly has a grasp of what he wants and what is best for him so I trust he'll make the best decision for him.

Pink Fairy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Surely having Henshaw, the nailed on Irish 12 playing inside him is going to be good for Ringrose no?

Anyway, Henshaw clearly has a grasp of what he wants and what is best for him so I trust he'll make the best decision for him.

He doesn't play 12 at Connacht, he is a full back and outside centre, Ringrose is going to get shafted.

Buer

Pink Fairy wrote: »

He doesn't play 12 at Connacht, he is a full back and outside centre, Ringrose is going to get shafted.

Leinster don't have an established 12. He might play 13 now and again if he joins Leinster. Might even line out there in Europe but, if Ringrose continues as he is, he won't be shafted at all.

He plays 12 for Ireland and is joining a side that needs a 12. I don't think there's any mystery here.

Bazzo

Buer wrote: »

Leinster don't have an established 12. He might play 13 now and again if he joins Leinster. Might even line out there in Europe but, if Ringrose continues as he is, he won't be shafted at all.

He plays 12 for Ireland and is joining a side that needs a 12. I don't think there's any mystery here.

If he's kept solely as a 12 for Ireland I wouldn't be surprised to see him drop to the bench behind McCloskey eventually tbh, he's a natural 12 and probably has a higher ceiling in that position.

Buer

Bazzo wrote: »

If he's kept solely as a 12 for Ireland I wouldn't be surprised to see him drop to the bench behind McCloskey eventually tbh, he's a natural 12 and probably has a higher ceiling in that position.

Yup. Definite possibility but we'll have to see how McCloskey goes at test level which hopefully is sooner rather than later.

Regardless, Henshaw is young, good and versatile. He'll always be slotting in somewhere in the back line given the age and injury profile of others.

Frankly, I'd have been happier to see him either stay in Galway or go south where he's needed more but I'm more than happy to have him in Leinster.