Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

thomond2006

Buer wrote: »

Frankly, I'd have been happier to see him either stay in Galway or go south where he's needed more but I'm more than happy to have him in Leinster.

The Sammy Arnold signing ruled out any chance of Henshaw going to Munster. There's Rory Scannell too who is developing nicely. Munster aren't short on 12s, for the first time....ever?!

Buer

thomond2006 wrote: »

The Sammy Arnold signing ruled out any chance of Henshaw going to Munster. There's Rory Scannell too who is developing nicely. Munster aren't short on 12s, for the first time....ever?!

Very true but you could do with a full back and your NIQ outside centre has only a year left on his contract. Arnold probably did indicate that Henshaw and Munster isn't on the cards but they're not really in the same bracket as players at all. Arnold will be aiming to get 10 starts in the Pro12 next season. Henshaw would be aiming to be a key player in the ECC.

Clegg

If he goes to Leinster he's playing inside centre. Te'o is leaving and Noel bleeding Reid is the only other senior 12 in the squad. Kind of sets in stone where he'll be playing for with Ireland for the next few years too. Have to wonder where this leaves McCloskey. Henshaw is too good to get dropped, McCloskey playing too well to ignore, and Payne is vital to our defence.

DGRulz

Clegg wrote: »

If he goes to Leinster he's playing inside centre. Te'o is leaving and Noel bleeding Reid is the only other senior 12 in the squad. Kind of sets in stone where he'll be playing for with Ireland for the next few years too. Have to wonder where this leaves McCloskey. Henshaw is too good to get dropped, McCloskey playing too well to ignore, and Payne is vital to our defence.

And then there's Olding ...

Mahatma Geansai

Inside centre is Henshaw's third best position, but the move to Leinster indicates that 12 is where he will end up. As a 12, McCloskey has a higher ceiling than Henshaw imo.

Mahatma Geansai

Hagz wrote: »

Are you joking? Conway is barely at the standard required for European rugby. He's completely headless.

Conway isn't a great player at all and has been injured recently. He is a similar type of player to Gilroy, but he is definitely a level below.

Clegg

DGRulz wrote: »

And then there's Olding ...

Only chance he has of playing 12 is if McCloskey leaves Ulster or gets a bad injury. Better off trying to develop his as a 13 or 15. But then there is Piutau and Payne to consider as well. If one goes to full back where does the other play and where does that leave Olding? I hope Ulster have an actual plan for this.

wp_rathead

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually with all the talk about Gilroy it's a wonder Conway isn't getting a whiff, very little between them.

:D:D thanks for that, needed a pick me up

AbusesToilets

Clegg wrote: »

Only chance he has of playing 12 is if McCloskey leaves Ulster or gets a bad injury. Better off trying to develop his as a 13 or 15. But then there is Piutau and Payne to consider as well. If one goes to full back where does the other play and where does that leave Olding? I hope Ulster have an actual plan for this.

Olding to Connacht confirmed

Buer

Is now a good time to note that Bundee Aki is qualified for Ireland in 18 months?

The Rape of Lucretia

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Olding to Connacht confirmed

Didnt realise that was in the air, but a good move for him now with Hench vacating.

Bazzo

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Olding to Connacht confirmed

That would be a good way to get Belfast rioting again

The Rape of Lucretia

It does open open more positions options for him, but guess he rates that more than the lower chance of playing European level rugby. In the Ireland context, definitely a good move and free up the log jam of good prospects who havent quite made the breakthrough.

AbusesToilets

Eh, was extracting the urine, but it wouldn't be a bad shout lol

The Rape of Lucretia

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

It does open open more positions options for him, but guess he rates that more than the lower chance of playing European level rugby. In the Ireland context, definitely a good move and free up the log jam of good prospects who havent quite made the breakthrough.

Agree with everything bar lower chance of European rugby bit.

Bazzo

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

It does open open more positions options for him, but guess he rates that more than the lower chance of playing European level rugby. In the Ireland context, definitely a good move and free up the log jam of good prospects who havent quite made the breakthrough.

I can never tell how serious you're being so something may be flying over my head here but AbusesToilets was joking about Olding to Connacht, or I presume he was because there's been nothing I've heard of about it.

The Rape of Lucretia

No. Its confirmed apparently.

Edit : Well, nothing on the Connacht site yet, but no more than Henchie on the Leinster one. I guess confirmation of all this merry go round will be confirmed in the morning.

The Rape of Lucretia

Deleted User wrote: »

Agree with everything bar lower chance of European rugby bit.

Well, top European rugby, with some chance of Cup. But in reality he may get more games there given that he will be an automatic choice rather than maybe not making the first team.

bilston

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

No. Its confirmed apparently.

Edit : Well, nothing on the Connacht site yet, but no more than Henchie on the Leinster one. I guess confirmation of all this merry go round will be confirmed in the morning.

What's confirmed? Olding to Connacht? That just isn't happening, if it did then Irish rugby is off its head. In the words of Les Kiss "Olding is the best young Irish player he has seen in his time in Ireland". No offence to Connacht but he just isn't going there. He won't be going anywhere, but if he did it wouldn't be to Connacht!

Bazzo

bilston wrote: »

What's confirmed? Olding to Connacht? That just isn't happening, if it did then Irish rugby is off its head. In the words of Les Kiss "Olding is the best young Irish player he has seen in his time in Ireland". No offence to Connacht but he just isn't going there. He won't be going anywhere, but if he did it wouldn't be to Connacht!

Willie Faloon has been regaling him with tales of the craic in the alley out the back of GPO/Carbon and he's decided he has to see it for himself.

Buer

bilston wrote: »

What's confirmed? Olding to Connacht? That just isn't happening, if it did then Irish rugby is off its head. In the words of Les Kiss "Olding is the best young Irish player he has seen in his time in Ireland". No offence to Connacht but he just isn't going there. He won't be going anywhere, but if he did it wouldn't be to Connacht!

It's a done deal. He's going to play 12 with Elvis at 13 and DB Cooper at full back.

Pink Fairy

Lads yere having your dicks pulled....and some of ye seem to be enjoying it too much!
:)

wp_rathead

Bazzo wrote: »

Willie Faloon has been regaling him with tales of the craic in the alley out the back of GPO/Carbon and he's decided he has to see it for himself.

I think its the lure of Bottle's of B on the Sparch that has convinced Stuart :cool:

connemara man

wp_rathead wrote: »

I think its the lure of Bottle's of B on the Sparch that has convinced Stuart :cool:

Ah now he was chatty to Rodney its supermacs Eyre square that was the clincher

DGRulz

I can just imagine the papers tomorrow morning running with the headline "Henshaw leaves Connaght as Olding set to arrive" all because some journo read something wrong here and picked it up as a rumour.

Bazzo

Just flicking through the comments section on a French article about the Maestri & Guirado incidents.

Some of the responses are as ridiculous as anything you'd see on boards, glad to see it's not a uniquely Irish thing

The general consensus is that Guirado's hit was 100% perfectly legal absolutely nothing wrong with it and also really nothing at all wrong with Maestri hitting Sexton off the ball because the ref was letting Ireland away with everything anyway so it was only fair really and Sexton was totally milking it.

Bazzo

Bazzo wrote: »

Just flicking through the comments section on a French article about the Maestri & Guirado incidents.

Some of the responses are as ridiculous as anything you'd see on boards, glad to see it's not a uniquely Irish thing

The general consensus is that Guirado's hit was 100% perfectly legal absolutely nothing wrong with it and also really nothing at all wrong with Maestri hitting Sexton off the ball because the ref was letting Ireland away with everything anyway so it was only fair really and Sexton was totally milking it.

Reality lies somewhere in the middle.

Bazzo

Basil3 wrote: »

Reality lies somewhere in the middle.

One person suggested that the Irish medical team were going to fake some injuries like they apparently did with Heaslip when Papé kneed him in order to get longer bans for the two.

the article for anyone interested.

shootermacg

case885 wrote: »

Can you prove your point that our climate puts us at a disadvantage?


NZ are so good now that they can beat us without gravity :O I must be dreaming

I hand you the shovel, you did your own hole.

awec

Clegg wrote: »

If he goes to Leinster he's playing inside centre. Te'o is leaving and Noel bleeding Reid is the only other senior 12 in the squad. Kind of sets in stone where he'll be playing for with Ireland for the next few years too. Have to wonder where this leaves McCloskey. Henshaw is too good to get dropped, McCloskey playing too well to ignore, and Payne is vital to our defence.

Is he? We've all heard how amazing Fitzgerald supposedly is at 12, could be a Fitz Henshaw duo

Either way, id say Henshaw is still miles away from being considered Irelands long term 12. He has done nothing to suggest this is where his future lies.

The Rape of Lucretia

With the Ringrose move to Connacht as well, that gives us 3 great centre partnerships vying for the Irish slots :
- Payne/McCloskey at Ulster
- Olding/Ringrose at Connacht
- Fitzie/Henshaw at Leinster

Oh the competition! Oh the riches !

(there used to be another Irish province I think, but cant for the life of me remember the name)

stadedublinois

Bazzo wrote: »

Just flicking through the comments section on a French article about the Maestri & Guirado incidents.

Some of the responses are as ridiculous as anything you'd see on boards, glad to see it's not a uniquely Irish thing

The general consensus is that Guirado's hit was 100% perfectly legal absolutely nothing wrong with it and also really nothing at all wrong with Maestri hitting Sexton off the ball because the ref was letting Ireland away with everything anyway so it was only fair really and Sexton was totally milking it.

In fairness most say the Maestri hit was stupid and merited a yellow (at least). The opinion on the Guirado hit is mixed much like in most places I've seen. I can't tell, the arm comes up high but does the hit come with the arm or the shoulder to Kearney's shoulder, which his injury would seem to indicate (but could it have happened in the fall).

There is also a general annoyance (not just on that site) with Ireland complaining about the hit by Maestri but defending O'Brien at the RWC. But saying that Sexton was milking is as ridiculous as claiming Papé was.

CatFromHue

stadedublinois wrote: »

In fairness most say the Maestri hit was stupid and merited a yellow (at least). The opinion on the Guirado hit is mixed much like in most places I've seen. I can't tell, the arm comes up high but does the hit come with the arm or the shoulder to Kearney's shoulder, which his injury would seem to indicate (but could it have happened in the fall).

There is also a general annoyance (not just on that site) with Ireland complaining about the hit by Maestri but defending O'Brien at the RWC. But saying that Sexton was milking is as ridiculous as claiming Papé was.

It looks around the neck so high to me anyway.

http://www.balls.ie/rugby/guirado-hit-dave-kearney/324457

Bazzo

stadedublinois wrote: »

In fairness most say the Maestri hit was stupid and merited a yellow (at least). The opinion on the Guirado hit is mixed much like in most places I've seen. I can't tell, the arm comes up high but does the hit come with the arm or the shoulder to Kearney's shoulder, which his injury would seem to indicate (but could it have happened in the fall).

There is also a general annoyance (not just on that site) with Ireland complaining about the hit by Maestri but defending O'Brien at the RWC. But saying that Sexton was milking is as ridiculous as claiming Papé was.

I'm hoping the whole Papé v O'Brien incident doesn't come up again so I won't really get into it but there are a couple differences between that incident and what happened here. O'Brien was completely stupid and deserved the ban he got, so if people are drawing parallels to that then surely they accept that Maestri deserves a ban too? He's had a cheap shot on Sexton, who had his back turned at the time and was miles away from the ball. Completely indefensible tbh. The fact that the French media were reporting during the week the team planned to "target" Sexton only makes it worse.

That kind of dirty play really annoys me. If he'd put in a bone crunching tackle legally like Picamoles(I think?) did to Sexton during the world cup I wouldn't have any problem with it.

I have less of a problem with Guirado as I think it was an accident, but to me it still looks like a clothesline. His arm looks to be about shoulder height coming in to the tackle but slips upwards a couple inches and is at neck height just as he's making contact.

The Rape of Lucretia

CatFromHue wrote: »

It looks around the neck so high to me anyway.

http://www.balls.ie/rugby/guirado-hit-dave-kearney/324457

Its on the shoulders at the first contact, and even at that, Dave is already dipping himself into the tackle. As Dave goes lower, it then goes up to the neck.
Not sure of the exact laws, but if that is a high tackle, then anything above the hips risks being one if the tacklee dips the shoulder as is common. It brings the hit higher up the torso, and depending on the impact then sliding up to the neck.
Not a high tackle for me.
That should be a tackle where the tackler is going for the neck, not one where the carrier takes his neck down to the tackler's arm, by bending his knees, dropping his shoulder, or slipping or loosing his footing in the impact.

CatFromHue

I don't think DK dipped much and the tackler is just flying in head down, he probably didn't know where he hit DK.

JRant

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Its on the shoulders at the first contact, and even at that, Dave is already dipping himself into the tackle. As Dave goes lower, it then goes up to the neck.
Not sure of the exact laws, but if that is a high tackle, then anything above the hips risks being one if the tacklee dips the shoulder as is common. It brings the hit higher up the torso, and depending on the impact then sliding up to the neck.
Not a high tackle for me.
That should be a tackle where the tackler is going for the neck, not one where the carrier takes his neck down to the tackler's arm, by bending his knees, dropping his shoulder, or slipping or loosing his footing in the impact.

Of course it's a high tackle. It may be unintentional, who knows, but it was reckless and dangerous. Also, the duty of care is with the tackler. It doesn't matter if the attacker was trying to break the limbo world record, he still can't be tackled around the head/neck area.

errlloyd

Was Kearney definitely injured in that tackle?

He carried the ball like 30 seconds later, during that carry there was a very strong (but quite legal) attempt a rip, and after that he fell on his shoulder - I actually thought Kearney survived the Guirado hit just fine.


Also, just to counter all the hatred a round here. I remember quite a nice moment. Medard went over to McCarthy after he went down, Medard didn't even cause the injury.

The Rape of Lucretia

CatFromHue wrote: »

I don't think DK dipped much and the tackler is just flying in head down, he probably didn't know where he hit DK.

In the balls.ie you quote he clearly is. In both views. In the second one he is well dipped as his shoulders meet the fully outstretch horizontal tackler arm. A few frames later, the same arm still has him gripped on the upper arm despite both players both going lower (tackler diving in, and Dave was already trying to evade it so their momentum easily takes both players down).

Look in relation to the ad hoardings in the background. Tacklers arm is on the top edge of the behind (duckegg colour) hoarding as he hits and Daves head well above it. And Dave is already dipping in at this point. Its shoulder height.
As they go over, the tackler grips him and it is only when Daves head dips to the level of the lower (Blue GMF) hoarding that the arm is at neck level. Even then the arm is slipping off him.
If upper torso is fair game, then this tackle is perfectly legit.

CatFromHue

DK was carrying his shoulder after that tackle and the next tackle he had didn't look too bad but he reacted very badly to it.

JRant

JRant wrote: »

Of course it's a high tackle. It may be unintentional, who knows, but it was reckless and dangerous. Also, the duty of care is with the tackler. It doesn't matter if the attacker was trying to break the limbo world record, he still can't be tackled around the head/neck area.

You're correct, if by head/neck area, you mean arm/shoulders.

fitz

Basil3 wrote: »

You're correct, if by head/neck area, you mean arm/shoulders.

He made zero effort to complete the tackle, just recklessly smashed into the man with a cursory swinging arm that was never in a position to wrap. Even if it wasn't high, which it was, it was a dangerous tackle and warranted a yellow. Peyper bottled it, just as he did the late hit on Sexton, which was a textbook yellow. He gave France clear license to carry on with cynical play, and it had a clear influence on the game. Had he binned Maestri as he should have, Guirado may not have felt so free to fling himself at Kearney so recklessly, and he then doesn't get injured.

I'm fed up hearing the "we can't blame the ref" line after a defeat, as if they're immune from fair criticism...some general offenses at the scrum or breakdown are always going to be missed, but ignoring blatant cynical and dangerous play is neglecting the duty of care the ref has for the players, and only encourages escalation into a physical free-for-all. Peyper's performance had a material impact on the game, which is the worst you can ask for in a ref.

fitz

fitz wrote: »

He made zero effort to complete the tackle, just recklessly smashed into the man with a cursory swinging arm that was never in a position to wrap. Even if it wasn't high, which it was, it was a dangerous tackle and warranted a yellow. Peyper bottled it, just as he did the late hit on Sexton, which was a textbook yellow. He gave France clear license to carry on with cynical play, and it had a clear influence on the game. Had he binned Maestri as he should have, Guirado may not have felt so free to fling himself at Kearney so recklessly, and he then doesn't he injured.

I'm fed up hearing the "we can't blame the ref" line after a defeat, as if they're immune from fair criticism...some general offenses at the scrum or breakdown are always going to be missed, but ignoring blatant cynical and dangerous play is neglecting the duty of care the ref has for the players, and only encourages escalation into a physical free-for-all. Peyper's performance had a material impact on the game, which is the worst you can ask for in a ref.

The sexton incident was cynical, but not dangerous. The Kearney incident was harsh, but not illegal.

A bigger issue is that Ireland should have never been in a position where they need to complain about the reffing. The ref wasn't the reason they played so poorly.

mfceiling

The hit on sexton to me was a red. It was so late and deliberate that it couldn't have been any where near accidental.
Yellow should have been the absolute minimum. Peyper's eyes must be painted on as it happened less than a foot in front of his eye line.

mfceiling

mfceiling wrote: »

The hit on sexton to me was a red. It was so late and deliberate that it couldn't have been any where near accidental.
Yellow should have been the absolute minimum. Peyper's eyes must be painted on as it happened less than a foot in front of his eye line.

He saw it, and signalled advantage. It was a shoulder barge. Let's not pretend it's anything remotely like striking, eye gouging or spear tackling.

I remember some comments being along the lines of "some man, that sexton, to get up and take a kick after that" as if he'd just been decapitated.

fitz

Basil3 wrote: »

The sexton incident was cynical, but not dangerous. The Kearney incident was harsh, but not illegal.

A bigger issue is that Ireland should have never been in a position where they need to complain about the reffing. The ref wasn't the reason they played so poorly.

The Sexton incident was cynical, late, and the correct sanction was a yellow card. That's not debatable, it's the laws. Late tables are always dangerous, add the player hadn't braced for the impact.

You're wrong about the Kearney incident.
It was illegal too, player didn't wrap, it's a blatantly dangerous tackle. High/not high is debatable, for me it was, but it's a shoulder charge one way or the other. Since when have they been legal?

If you can't see the link between the officials allowing cynical or dangerous play to go unsanctioned and a team's persistence with further cynical or dangerous play, I really don't know what to say, tbh.

https://youtu.be/Kp-u7-gMX5o

Watch from 30 seconds into that video, and keep an eye on Tadhg Furlong, and how he's taken out of the ball. That to me is another cynical, off the ball incident that happened because Peyper hadn't stamped his authority on the game to cut it out. For me, that's a penalty Ireland, reversing the 5 meter scrum that resulted from there being no grounding. That was ignored, and we know what happened from the resulting scrums.

Yes, Ireland shouldn't have been in a position to lose the way they did in the second half, but a yellow card for the Sexton incident, during a period where we were dominant and looked most likely to score a try could have changed the result.

Are you really arguing that the Sexton incident should not have been yellow? Cause that's just bonkers imo.

CMOTDibbler

Basil3 wrote: »

The sexton incident was cynical, but not dangerous. The Kearney incident was harsh, but not illegal.

A bigger issue is that Ireland should have never been in a position where they need to complain about the reffing. The ref wasn't the reason they played so poorly.

This is correct.

A couple of try scoring opportunities could have been looked at though.

fitz

Basil3 wrote: »

He saw it, and signalled advantage. It was a shoulder barge. Let's not pretend it's anything remotely like striking, eye gouging or spear tackling.

I remember some comments being along the lines of "some man, that sexton, to get up and take a kick after that" as if he'd just been decapitated.

It certainly wasn't the elbow to the head that some claimed, but a late shoulder barge when you're not braced for it and while facing the other way can easily result in an injury, that's why it's dangerous play. It's a clear yellow.

The Rape of Lucretia

fitz wrote: »

You're wrong about the Kearney incident.
It was illegal too, player didn't wrap, it's a blatantly dangerous tackle. High/not high is debatable, for me it was, but it's a shoulder charge one way or the other. Since when have they been legal?

Sexton was a yellow alright. Late. (I dont think there is anything in the laws against 'cynical' play though).

But there is a clear wrap on Kearney. Left arm fully across his upper chest and wraps around and grabs Daves upper arm. Right arm is around Daves back.
A tough tackle no doubt and maybe laws should be amended to force lower tackles. But I cant see where its against the laws as they are.
Going off with the shoulder injury shows his shoulder took the impact. Unlucky. But thats international rugby.

fitz

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Sexton was a yellow alright. Late. (I dont think there is anything in the laws against 'cynical' play though).

But there is a clear wrap on Kearney. Left arm fully across his upper chest and wraps around and grabs Daves upper arm. Right arm is around Daves back.
A tough tackle no doubt and maybe laws should be amended to force lower tackles. But I cant see where its against the laws as they are.
Going off with the shoulder injury shows his shoulder took the impact. Unlucky. But thats international rugby.

Looks to me like the right arm swings into Dave after the impact is made as a result of the impact, not out of any intent to wrap. To me, it goes beyond tough (like Robert's on Henshaw last week) into dangerous tackle territory.

Either way, I don't think that type of hit gets made if a players already been binned for a late or dangerous play... The French would have been less likely to go for borderline hits if Maestri had been binned. The non-yellow for his Sexton hit set the tone.