Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

rsh118

sydthebeat wrote: »

im saying SOB, or any other elite player, would be highly tested and conditioning so as to have themselves into peak performance levels.... and i said "excess" fat because theres no such thing a 0% body fat.

strength and condition is not my area of expertise so i would be very slow to get involved in any high level argument.

and i certainly agree that the myth of us being a "fitter" team is certainly being shown to be a fallacy.... or at least the myth that the french arent fit...

Yeah I'm in no rush for too high level a discussion, my understanding is more on the interested amateur end of the scale, though what got me thinking was a fitness trainer mate telling me how every ounce you carry in game has to be powered through it by your muscles, since no fat carries itself. True that you can't get to 0 and in fact that would be deadly, but you can get from say 8% to 4% and make marginal gains.

rsh118

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Interesting thought. I know Savea got sent away for extra fitness work last after he showed up to the ABs camp overweight. I think Healy has definitely gotten bigger and lost some of his athleticism over the past few years. Injuries have obviously played a part but I get the impression he's spent too much time in gym.

And you could still see his abs! I know they already have weight goals etc in central contracts or so I've heard, so I wonder will this start happening more for us...

JPNelsforearm

rsh118 wrote: »

Are you telling me SOB isn't carting a couple of kilos of fat around with him?

And having read about some of the absolute arse a minority of these experts espouse we should be asking questions.

I genuinely think some of the recent games have put to bed the idea that we are one of the fitter teams. I'd say we look mid-table, especially the way we seem to be blowing out our arses after stating games well.

No. The excess bf% is just another myth with a grain of truth, like the one that weights will slow you down, make you less agile, stop your growth, etc etc

There is a trade off once you have a certain power/weight ratio, an extra kilo of fat wont make much of a difference, all the studies have shown that it really only matters in endurance events.
A 110kg center for example, if he is a more powerful player than his equally hefty but lower bodyfat sporting opponent will not be disadvantaged.

Now if you are carrying that excess in addition to not having a great power to weight ratio, then yeah obviously cutting weight will be good for you. Id trust the Leinster and Ireland S&C guys. We are talking about elite athletes here, AIL players etc, yeah, most could afford to sacrifice the few kilos.

JPNelsforearm

rsh118 wrote: »

And you could still see his abs! I know they already have weight goals etc in central contracts or so I've heard, so I wonder will this start happening more for us...

I remember Ben Atiga got dumped by the Blues for showing up for pre season 20kg over his playing weight of 98/100kg:eek:

rsh118

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

No. The excess bf% is just another myth with a grain of truth, like the one that weights will slow you down, make you less agile, stop your growth, etc etc

There is a trade off once you have a certain power/weight ratio, an extra kilo of fat wont make much of a difference, all the studies have shown that it really only matters in endurance events.
A 110kg center for example, if he is a more powerful player than his equally hefty but lower bodyfat sporting opponent will not be disadvantaged.

Now if you are carrying that excess in addition to not having a great power to weight ratio, then yeah obviously cutting weight will be good for you. Id trust the Leinster and Ireland S&C guys. We are talking about elite athletes here, AIL players etc, yeah, most could afford to sacrifice the few kilos.

But could our lot be wrong in their view off that? That a couple kgs is worth the penalty to the weight/power ratio?

rsh118

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

I remember Ben Atiga got dumped by the Blues for showing up for pre season 20kg over his playing weight of 98/100kg:eek:

That's a lot of taro...

Synode

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

But there is a clear wrap on Kearney. Left arm fully across his upper chest and wraps around and grabs Daves upper arm. Right arm is around Daves back.

I don't know the details of the laws, but that does not look like a clear wrap to me. He hits Dave with a neck to the arm and immediately falls off him

http://www.balls.ie/rugby/guirado-hit-dave-kearney/324457

rsh118

Synode wrote: »

I don't know the details of the laws, but that does not look like a clear wrap to me. He hits Dave with a neck to the arm and immediately falls off him

http://www.balls.ie/rugby/guirado-hit-dave-kearney/324457

To be fair, it's a similar question to the chop tackle where the arms are extended but the force of the hit often prevents a real wrap.

I like this one from balls.ie

http://www.balls.ie/rugby/players-who-should-finally-be-given-a-chance-by-joe-schmidt/324473

Jack McGrath had quite a mixed game, after a less than impressive showing against Wales.

Quint2010

I would just like us to see just one unenforced change in the back line for Twickenham. Even just to keep the opposition guessing. Right now we are looking very predictable and are going to lose this match either way. So lets do it at least learning something new?

Yeah_Right

rsh118 wrote: »

And you could still see his abs! I know they already have weight goals etc in central contracts or so I've heard, so I wonder will this start happening more for us...

At the time they didn't mention kilos but said his skin fold measurements were too high. I know Tamefuna never got his game for the ABs as he wasn't fit enough/ too fat.

It's a gross generalisation but I certainly get the impression that SH front rowers are leaner than their NH counterparts. Obviously I'm not a professional athlete or S&C coach. It's simply a case of what I see from watching the games. I'd love to see Healy back to the prop of 3 years ago. Less weights, more speed work.

vienne86

Deleted User wrote: »

I like this one from balls.ie

http://www.balls.ie/rugby/players-who-should-finally-be-given-a-chance-by-joe-schmidt/324473

And I'd say Jack McGrath will like it too, having played two lots of 80 minutes just six days apart. I thought he was very good agains Wales.

JPNelsforearm

rsh118 wrote: »

But could our lot be wrong in their view off that? That a couple kgs is worth the penalty to the weight/power ratio?

I'll try get you the studies, but once you are hitting all of your fitness, strength markers that the team has set, for your weight and position, your bf% is really irrelevant, it just makes you look sloppy. On a personal level a guy might want to lose the extra kilos, but how can a coach tell him to lose it if he is hitting all of his targets?

The odd kilo is only applicable to endurance, in sports like rugby, where there are numerous breaks and a large power component to the game, it wouldnt be worth stressing about.

I honestly dont believe the difference between us and NZ is bf%. SA have played a beefy power based game and have the best winning percentage of any nation against them.

So let's just say Ireland lose to England, beat Scotland, beat Italy, lose three times to SA, beat Canada, lose twice to NZ and lose to Aus. That's probably the predicted results. What then? Schmidt out?

errlloyd

Deleted User wrote: »

So let's just say Ireland lose to England, beat Scotland, beat Italy, lose three times to SA, beat Canada, lose twice to NZ and lose to Aus. That's probably the predicted results. What then? Schmidt out?

Very plausible outcome to be fair.

Yeah_Right

Leandro Round Billboard wrote: »

The championship is over, finished.
From now on lets rotate our squad, Sexton, Heaslip, OBrien, Murray, McCarthy should be stood down for the rest of the championship. They need the rest.
I want to see at least 30 different players used over the next 3 games.
both Cronins, furlong, dillane, jackson, olding, mccloskey, scholes, madigan, flier, healy, gilroy, marshall, payne at full back, Ruddock at lock etc etc.
its time to experiment with our team and how we play. If we continue with Schmidtball we are doomed.

Ruddock at lock. You have to be joking. Drop Sexton, Heaslip and Murray. Insane. Substituting them so their back ups get some reasonable playing time is a good idea though. That all depends on how the game is going.

Calling for an offloading game is crazy. Did you see the conditions they were playing in?

I would have liked to see some new faces in the match day squad but I think injuries have dictated selection.

case885

vienne86 wrote:

And I'd say Jack McGrath will like it too, having played two lots of 80 minutes just six days apart. I thought he was very good agains Wales.

Cronin came on for 8 or so minutes against France.
McGrath was very good in the Welsh game alright, for such a big unit he gets around very well.

CatFromHue

Deleted User wrote: »

I like this one from balls.ie

http://www.balls.ie/rugby/players-who-should-finally-be-given-a-chance-by-joe-schmidt/324473

It might be a bit soon, but if this was the Southern Hemisphere there would be no second thought for throwing them in.

Yes, yes there would.

I think Payne is the best 13 we have so moving him back to 15 doesn't make a huge amount of sense.

After Madigan re started out on the full after their try on the weekend I think putting PJ on the bench is the best call now. Madigan didn't inspire much in his general play either.

vienne86

case885 wrote: »

Cronin came on for 8 or so minutes against France.
McGrath was very good in the Welsh game alright, for such a big unit he gets around very well.

My mistake. Some shift by McGrath though!

postitnote

CatFromHue wrote: »

...

After Madigan re started out on the full after their try on the weekend I think putting PJ on the bench is the best call now...

This in isolation isn't a reason to replace Madigan with Jackson. The first thing PJ did on Friday night when he came on was to put the ball out on the full from kickoff :pac::pac::pac:

CatFromHue

Step up Ian Keatley so!!!

zizou_

If you remember back to Joe's pre-match comments before the French game he suggested that only a settled centre combination was considered so it was either JP&RH or LM&SM. Not surprisingly he went with the former and SM went back to Ulster. This seems really harsh as his own performance in isolation won't get him into the team. Equally his lack of versatility means he can't get a spot amongst the replacements.

Hard to see anyone new getting a run in this 6N unless JS has a serious rethink.

former total

CatFromHue wrote: »

After Madigan re started out on the full after their try on the weekend I think putting PJ on the bench is the best call now. Madigan didn't inspire much in his general play either.

As noted above, Jackson did exactly this on Friday night, and Sexton has a track record of it too.
Re: general play, Madigan saw so little ball I'm not sure how you'd judge him either way.

Can't see much changing here, much to the chagrin of boards.ie.

Quint2010

SOB tore his hamstring on Sat and out of England game at least. Payne won't train this week as he suffered a grade one hamstring on Sat but played thru it. Kearney has AC joint injury and very likely to miss England game. Sexton has whiplash but feeling better. Ross and Healy will train with Ireland on Thursday but will go back to Leinster along with a number of other players for this weekends domestic games.

AbusesToilets

Deleted User wrote: »

So let's just say Ireland lose to England, beat Scotland, beat Italy, lose three times to SA, beat Canada, lose twice to NZ and lose to Aus. That's probably the predicted results. What then? Schmidt out?

Absolutely not, but it should definitely prompt a serious examination of our set up and what needs to change. If the IRFU is going to run the show with the purpose of maximising the success of the National Team, then they should ensure every step is being taken to achieve that.

The Black Stags

Quint2010 wrote: »

SOB tore his hamstring on Sat and out of England game at least. Payne won't train this week as he suffered a grade one hamstring on Sat but played thru it. Kearney has AC joint injury and very likely to miss England game. Sexton has whiplash but feeling better. Ross and Healy will train with Ireland on Thursday but will go back to Leinster along with a number of other players for this weekends domestic games.

Earls and Zebo are very likely to be back for England too. Can't see Gilroy getting a call up anytime soon.

Pudsy33

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So let's just say Ireland lose to England, beat Scotland, beat Italy, lose three times to SA, beat Canada, lose twice to NZ and lose to Aus. That's probably the predicted results. What then? Schmidt out?

He could well be on his way after all that anyways right? When us his contract up? I'd be very surprised if we didn't notch a win during the summer tour tbh, which is a sign of how far we have come I suppose. With a full team we should not fear anyone. I was as guilty as any of moaning on Saturday but we were only 3 points over 2 games from being unbeaten.

awec

former total wrote: »

As noted above, Jackson did exactly this on Friday night, and Sexton has a track record of it too.
Re: general play, Madigan saw so little ball I'm not sure how you'd judge him either way.

Can't see much changing here, much to the chagrin of boards.ie.

Really? How many times has Sexton put the ball out on the full in a crucial point of the game after your scrum just spent 5 minutes getting dicked under your own posts?

Jackson's was hardly the same either given he did it with 40 minutes to play.

Madigan made a stupid decision to go for that style of restart and executed it poorly. Let's not try and pretend it was the same as what Jackson did on 40 minutes, Ireland had no time to recover from Madigan's.

bilston

If Payne misses out on Twickenham it will be interesting to see how Joe lines up his midfield.

bilston

awec wrote: »

Really? How many times has Sexton put the ball out on the full in a crucial point of the game after your scrum just spent 5 minutes getting dicked under your own posts?

Jackson's was hardly the same either given he did it with 40 minutes to play.

Madigan made a stupid decision to go for that style of restart and executed it poorly. Let's not try and pretend it was the same as what Jackson did on 40 minutes, Ireland had no time to recover from Madigan's.

It's not a remotely fair comparison between the Pro 12 and a 6Ns match, especially given Mads had no time and basically no ball, but the difference is that PJ went on to mastermind an Ulster victory from behind. Actually on restarts it's part of Jackson's game that I'd like to see improve. Maybe it's a tactic to always go long but he needs to put more height on them. Too often Ulster restart and then put no pressure on the opposition.

Pudsy33

bilston wrote: »

If Payne misses out on Twickenham it will be interesting to see how Joe lines up his midfield.

Can't imagine anything other than Henshaw McCloskey.

Mr Tickle

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Can't imagine anything other than Henshaw McCloskey.

I wouldn't be too surprised if Henshaw Marshall was the result. I'd prefer the above of course.

bilston

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Can't imagine anything other than Henshaw McCloskey.

Henshaw/Earls with Zebo on the wing?

As Mr Tickle says I think Henshaw/Marshall would be more likely than McCloskey/Henshaw.

awec

Henshaw McFadden :pac:

bilston

awec wrote: »

Henshaw McFadden :pac:

I'm somebody would try and defend that!

Pudsy33

bilston wrote: »

Henshaw/Earls with Zebo on the wing?

As Mr Tickle says I think Henshaw/Marshall would be more likely than McCloskey/Henshaw.

Dear god no. Totally forgot about Marshall actually, wouldn't mind that tbh. Either of the Ulster lads would be preferable to Earls.

Mr Tickle

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Dear god no. Totally forgot about Marshall actually, wouldn't mind that tbh. Either of the Ulster lads would be preferable to Earls.

that's fighting talk!

Agree though. I hope the attitude of not introducing new players in a tough game doesn't come into it too much.

Probably irrelevant as payne will have a week of training so he'll be in there.

CatFromHue

bilston wrote: »

I'm somebody would try and defend that!

The last Clongowes - Rock centre partnership was one of the best Ireland had ever had, got to give it another go

Buer

I would imagine Luke Marshall has as good a chance as McCloskey to get the nod for the game. He was the 24th man for the Wales game. Not sure who was there for the French game but, given Marshall wasn't involved with Ulster last weekend, I assume it was him again.

EDIT: It was. He can be seen with the subs at the weekend in photos.

I'd have no problem with him getting the nod. He's a strong player who has gone really well this season and has a very good passing game that would allow himself and Henshaw to interchange.

mfceiling

If Payne is out it will he Earls or McFadden at 13. That is a guarantee. There'll be a statement about systems and familiarity. Unfortunately it will be a pìss poor choice.

Buer

bilston wrote: »

Henshaw/Earls with Zebo on the wing?

I think that is a very strong consideration but hopefully they'll keep Earls on the wing where he's better and more needed.

former total

awec wrote: »

Really? How many times has Sexton put the ball out on the full in a crucial point of the game after your scrum just spent 5 minutes getting dicked under your own posts?

Jackson's was hardly the same either given he did it with 40 minutes to play.

Madigan made a stupid decision to go for that style of restart and executed it poorly. Let's not try and pretend it was the same as what Jackson did on 40 minutes, Ireland had no time to recover from Madigan's.

See, you just assume I'm bigging up Madigan and you come out swinging. Read it again, all I'm saying is that the other out halves do this regularly and this one incident won't change Joe's mind.

Re: Sexton. Has he ever put it out on the full in the mind-bogglingly specific set of circumstances you describe above? Funny enough, no. Has he ever put it out on the full when his team really needed to get back in the game? Oh hell yes. "Let's not pretend" that he hasn't.

Bazzo

If Payne is out I would hope the partnership would be McCloskey/Henshaw especially as they have 2 weeks to prepare now. I wouldn't be surprised to see Henshaw/Marshall. I really really hope it's not Henshaw/Earls.

CatFromHue

former total wrote: »

As noted above, Jackson did exactly this on Friday night, and Sexton has a track record of it too.
Re: general play, Madigan saw so little ball I'm not sure how you'd judge him either way.

Can't see much changing here, much to the chagrin of boards.ie.

I think in the context of having your scrum mullered for the previous 5-10 mins/since half time it was a horrendous mistake to make.

I thought when he came on he was a passenger and added nothing to what he did do.

awec

CatFromHue wrote: »

I think in the context of having your scrum mullered for the previous 5-10 mins/since half time it was a horrendous mistake to make.

I thought when he came on he was a passenger and added nothing to what he did do.

That restart needed to go long, we needed to make France play the ball out of their own half or boot it back to us.

There was 10 minutes left, no need to go for the super duper restart.

The Black Stags

Buer wrote: »

I think that is a very strong consideration but hopefully they'll keep Earls on the wing where he's better and more needed.

If Payne is out, that's exactly the partnership I think we'll see. Anything else would be a somewhat pleasant surprise.

former total

CatFromHue wrote: »

I think in the context of having your scrum mullered for the previous 5-10 mins/since half time it was a horrendous mistake to make.

I thought when he came on he was a passenger and added nothing to what he did do.

Of course it was a bad mistake, especially since it meant we had to go into another scrum which was the last thing we needed at that point.

Was he a passenger? Maybe. Hard for the out half to do anything with no ball though.

mfceiling

mfceiling wrote: »

If Payne is out it will he Earls or McFadden at 13. That is a guarantee. There'll be a statement about systems and familiarity. Unfortunately it will be a pìss poor choice.

I never want to see either of them at center for Ireland ever again. I'd be extremely disappointed to see either start. Having McFadden on the bench is one thing, but starting lads who have proven themselves to be inadequate there just for the sake damage control is - dare I say it - conservative.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

At the risk of sounding overly dramatic I will boycott Irish Rugby forever if Earls is wearing 13 in Twickenham. I will become a full time Scotland supporter and I'll migrate to boards.sco

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Madigan was training with Leinster today. Is that common practice in an off week for players to be back with their provinces? I suppose he only had about 10 minutes game time over the 2 weeks so he doesn't need the time off.