Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

ronanc1000

No, rala's plan was to always retire after the world cup, and that was planned after his lions stint.

Zzippy

ronanc1000 wrote: »

No, rala's plan was to always retire after the world cup, and that was planned after his lions stint.

Sarcasm detector fail...

Scythica

I think I'm being rather dumb as I still can't think of anyone who fits that bill..

On related terms. Who do we want to see replace Kiss with Ireland? Anyone fairly obscure worth grabbing?

CatFromHue

Schmidt might just take the role himself, he ran defence when he was in charge of Leinster.

Beery Eyed

The 6 Nations directly after a World Cup is always an slightly strange one, but it should be even more interesting for us this time around I think.

Given the amount of players from all sides who retire after the World Cup, or those that fall out of the coaches long term plans due to their age, there should be a lot of changes among all the squads come February.

From our side, we have typically avoided making wholesale changes, and instead we have sort of ploughed on as if nothing has changed. It hasn't been the most far-sighted approach, but given that we rarely win a 6 Nations, and our coach was typically under pressure following a World Cup exit, we usually just selected our strongest squad at that time & went for it, instead of taking a view to the future.

On this occasion though, I think there may be significant change, and I hope that is the case. If we want to progress, we should be laying the groundwork now. I'm not talking about just throwing in a bunch of young lads & giving up on the competition by any means, but there are several younger alternatives who may have the quality to become top internationals & the coming 6 Nations is as good an opportunity as any.

There are one or two key leaders in the squad that should probably still play despite the fact that they probably won't be around for much longer, but there are also some difficult choices that should probably be made now, so that we can hopefully benefit from it later.

Ross & White at tighthead are examples. Both excellent players, but most likely not around for the next four year cycle. Moore & Furlong look to be the next in line, and they might well grasp the opportunity & kick on if selected (& fit of course).

Rob Kearney, Bowe, Trimble, Payne, Cave, etc. are also in that category, and there are several younger alternatives, albeit not quite at their level yet.

Reddan & Boss look likely to go, so that might mean a route in for Marmion & another young scrum half.

In terms of keeping experience, Sexton, Heaslip, and Best were part of the leadership group & are still important players for the squad, so they could provide a good, experienced backbone to the team. Best may lose out to Cronin or Strauss though.

Whatever happens, it will be fascinating to see Joe's approach for the squad, and who he feels should be brought in. I know that nobody is happy about crashing out at the quarter final stage, but I don't feel that there is anywhere near the same type of pressure on Joe as there was on Kidney or O'Sullivan after they went out. Hopefully this will mean that he has more security to make the changes he wants to, so that if we don't perform, but ultimately make progression, it will still be seen as reasonably positive.

irishbucsfan

It all comes down to what World Rugby do with rankings. At the moment they're going to be decided in December 2016, however World Rugby have said they'll consider changing things. Let's assume for now that they won't be changed, if they're going to change it we'll know before the 6 Nations I'd assume.

There are two ways of thinking it seems. One is that the World Cup rules all and Ireland could work in 4 year cycles to target the World Cup. The other thinking is that the 6 Nations is also an important competition and that we should aim to challenge for it as often as possible while also keeping an eye on the World Cup.

Let's assume we adopt a World Cup focus and make that our priority and disregard the 6 Nations entirely. Making changes in February 2016 isn't the right way to approach that. If we want to win a World Cup then the most important thing we can do in 2016 is to get ourselves into the top 4 of the world rankings and get ourselves considered a top seed. If we go unbeaten in 2016 (as we did in 2009) then we've a good chance of getting there.

If we do want to work on a 4 year cycle then that cycle should begin in Feburary 2017 and end in December 2020, because the seedings for the groups is a very important part of the world cup process. Unless of course they change when the seedings are finalised.

WarZ

That is absolutely pathetic stuff from that group of players. I have a fair idea of who was involved as well. Funnily enough he was someone who didn't start and who sees himself as a bit of a superstar :rolleyes:

ThisRegard

Yis 'ev gone and broke Total Former.

ThisRegard

WarZ wrote: »

That is absolutely pathuetic stuff from that group of players. I have a fair idea of who was involved as well. Funnily enough he was someone who didn't start and who sees himself as a bit of a superstar :rolleyes:

You seem to know alot of insiders in Irish rugby, from players to the suits who coerced UCC management to create a pretend position for them.

irishbucsfan

total former wrote: »

All of the above is correct, but if you're willing to consider the possibility that it's true, then there's really only one name you'll come up with.

I don't have any insider knowledge on this, btw.

I don't really know who it is you're referring to here. The only other person really involved that rrpc didn't mention would be Mick Kearney but obviously he doesn't fit the bill. Am I missing another coach?

WarZ

ThisRegard wrote: »

You seem to know alot of insiders in Irish rugby, from players to the suits who coerced UCC management to create a pretend position for them.

I think anyone with a brain can see that Kidney being offered a cushy retirement job with no actual coaching being asked of him was an IRFU retirement home for Declan.

WarZ

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't really know who it is you're referring to here. The only other person really involved that rrpc didn't mention would be Mick Kearney but obviously he doesn't fit the bill. Am I missing another coach?

hmmmm was Richie Murphy mentioned? mainly worked with the back 3.................

ThisRegard

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't really know who it is you're referring to here. The only other person really involved that rrpc didn't mention would be Mick Kearney but obviously he doesn't fit the bill. Am I missing another coach?

You'll be waiting for an answer, he closed that account.

irishbucsfan

WarZ wrote: »

hmmmm was Richie Murphy mentioned? mainly worked with the back 3.................

Yes he was mentioned. Richie Murphy has been involved in the Irish setup since before Schmidt so it doesn't apply. Also works with the entire backline.

WarZ

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yes he was mentioned. Richie Murphy has been involved in the Irish setup since before Schmidt so it doesn't apply. Also works with the entire backline.

Rifts can develop, especially when certain players believe that they should be starting and are being treated unfairly and picked on by a coach in training.

case885

WarZ wrote:

Rifts can develop, especially when certain players believe that they should be starting and are being treated unfairly and picked on by a coach in training.

Who are the players? Or were you just dreaming up this last night in bed.

WarZ

case885 wrote: »

Who are the players? Or were you just dreaming up this last night in bed.

Look, it's pretty obvious who the main instigator was. The paper insinuates it by talking about him being left out, there are very few current Leinster coaches in the Irish set up. The player I'm thinking of has a known attitude problem as do a few of his peers from his club.

Cronin The Destroyer

Beery Eyed wrote: »

On this occasion though, I think there may be significant change, and I hope that is the case....

CJ Stander surely? What are the chances he makes the squad for this 6 nations? He's only 25, get him in there!

Ceadog

Cronin The Destroyer wrote: »

CJ Stander surely? What are the chances he makes the squad for this 6 nations? He's only 25, get him in there!

100% he'll be in the squad. Has a decent chance at starting at 6 too, if O'Mahony isn't back in time.

aimee1

Ceadog wrote: »

100% he'll be in the squad. Has a decent chance at starting at 6 too, if O'Mahony isn't back in time.

POM having knee surgery in next few weeks, season is over. cant see anyway he will play 6n

Cronin The Destroyer

Ceadog wrote: »

100% he'll be in the squad. Has a decent chance at starting at 6 too, if O'Mahony isn't back in time.

I'd be very excited to see Stander, Henshaw, Henderson, Payne/McCluskey, POM, SOB, Sexton, Murray and Best all lining out for Ireland. And after the disappointment of last Sunday, any excitement is good excitement.

.ak

WarZ wrote: »

Look, it's pretty obvious who the main instigator was. The paper insinuates it by talking about him being left out, there are very few current Leinster coaches in the Irish set up. The player I'm thinking of has a known attitude problem as do a few of his peers from his club.

Enough of this speculative nonsense. Anyone can come in here and speculate stuff like this - either back it up with a source or keep it to yourself.

phog

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't really know who it is you're referring to here. The only other person really involved that rrpc didn't mention would be Mick Kearney but obviously he doesn't fit the bill. Am I missing another coach?

Mick isn't a coach and was appointed before Kidney departed so he'd be there longer than Joe's team.

partyguinness

Deleted User wrote: »

Fairly gas (and ignorant) to highlight that a player 'capable of outrageous matching-winning larceny' in Simon Zebo wasn't on the bench vs Argentina.

Correct.

Luke Fitzgerald was, and came on and laid the foundations for us getting back into the game.

Zebo not being on the bench was almost wholly irrelevant. If Fitz had come on and stank the pitch up, perhaps he'd have had somewhat of a modicum of a point!

'The 2015 crew had no outlet to alleviate their boredom'

...and they played golf at the Belfry which is not too far from me.

No point in having Zebo on as nobody was going wide. That article is full of crap-anybody could have written it..yawn.

I went on tours as a player and there was plenty of guys that did not see eye to eye- the room sharing had to be carefully managed and players kept apart- just got on with it. So having 50-60 grown men shacked up for weeks on end is of course going to result in guys not getting on- any other way would be just weird.

irishbucsfan

phog wrote: »

Mick isn't a coach and was appointed before Kidney departed so he'd be there longer than Joe's team.

Yeah, that's why I said obviously he doesn't fit the bill!

salmocab

Ceadog wrote: »

100% he'll be in the squad. Has a decent chance at starting at 6 too, if O'Mahony isn't back in time.

probably in the extended squad but with POM out Id imagine Ruddock would be the likely 6

Ceadog

salmocab wrote: »

probably in the extended squad but with POM out Id imagine Ruddock would be the likely 6

True I'd forgotten Ruddock. I'm guessing Stander probably wouldn't make the bench either with Henry being in there. Though if there's any injury at 6/8 he'd probably go straight into the starting lineup, ahead of Murphy. Murphy has had more exposure to the setup but I think Stander has a higher ceiling.

jacothelad

thomond2006 wrote: »

"Rumours also swirled"

What does that even mean?

He had his head shoved and flushed down the bogs when he heard the rumour that there was a rumour.

Zzippy

SPOILER ALERT!!!

OneF is WarZ. #swirling #rumours

Cronin The Destroyer

Ceadog wrote: »

True I'd forgotten Ruddock. I'm guessing Stander probably wouldn't make the bench either with Henry being in there. Though if there's any injury at 6/8 he'd probably go straight into the starting lineup, ahead of Murphy. Murphy has had more exposure to the setup but I think Stander has a higher ceiling.

I'd have thought Stander clearly has the edge over Henry when you take out the fact that Henry has had game time with IRE.

Ceadog

Cronin The Destroyer wrote: »

I'd have thought Stander clearly has the edge over Henry when you take out the fact that Henry has had game time with IRE.

Henry is an excellent international who was an integral part of our 2014 6N campaign. Stander will no doubt leapfrog him within the next 12 months but bar injury or a massive loss of form Henry will be ahead of him for the 6N. Plus, he's our only openside option with international experience apart from SO'B.

QuinDixie

i hope some day stander gets to represent his country, but he simply is not good enough at the moment. He may have to return home to get his chance anyway.

bilston

Cronin The Destroyer wrote: »

I'd have thought Stander clearly has the edge over Henry when you take out the fact that Henry has had game time with IRE.

Stander must be one hell of a player if he clearly has the edge over Henry, at least as good as SOB. I'm really excited to see him in the green of Ireland.

gucci

total former wrote: »

He's contractually obliged to play internationals. He'd have to negotiate a release and go abroad. Not really plausible.

The "rift" thing is possible, even if very unlikely.

Yep not a chance he will be retiring before the next world cup....the guy needs to pay his bills and I think he is the sort of individual who is driven enough to play at the top for as long as he can.

phog

QuinDixie wrote: »

i hope some day stander gets to represent his country, but he simply is not good enough at the moment. He may have to return home to get his chance anyway.

He like Strauss and Payne can play international rugby without representing their country.

jm08

bilston wrote: »

Stander must be one hell of a player if he clearly has the edge over Henry, at least as good as SOB. I'm really excited to see him in the green of Ireland.

Well, no one is every going to be as good as any of those players if they don't get an opportunity to be.

Saying that, I don't expect to see Stander involved in anything other than training next 6Ns learning the 'system' but he will be needed on the high veldt next summer.

jm08

QuinDixie wrote: »

i hope some day stander gets to represent his country, but he simply is not good enough at the moment. He may have to return home to get his chance anyway.

Next summer's tour then?;)

jm08

Ceadog wrote: »

Henry is an excellent international who was an integral part of our 2014 6N campaign. Stander will no doubt leapfrog him within the next 12 months but bar injury or a massive loss of form Henry will be ahead of him for the 6N. Plus, he's our only openside option with international experience apart from SO'B.

Tommy O'Donnell? He mentioned he would be back around christmas.

LuckyLloyd

.ak wrote: »

Load of rubbish tbh. Not even worth reading. Just a bitter opinion piece.

To be fair, he ends on a positive conclusion that if JS can learn from mistakes fortunes could be radically improved next time out.

LuckyLloyd

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It all comes down to what World Rugby do with rankings. At the moment they're going to be decided in December 2016, however World Rugby have said they'll consider changing things. Let's assume for now that they won't be changed, if they're going to change it we'll know before the 6 Nations I'd assume.

There are two ways of thinking it seems. One is that the World Cup rules all and Ireland could work in 4 year cycles to target the World Cup. The other thinking is that the 6 Nations is also an important competition and that we should aim to challenge for it as often as possible while also keeping an eye on the World Cup.

Let's assume we adopt a World Cup focus and make that our priority and disregard the 6 Nations entirely. Making changes in February 2016 isn't the right way to approach that. If we want to win a World Cup then the most important thing we can do in 2016 is to get ourselves into the top 4 of the world rankings and get ourselves considered a top seed. If we go unbeaten in 2016 (as we did in 2009) then we've a good chance of getting there.

If we do want to work on a 4 year cycle then that cycle should begin in Feburary 2017 and end in December 2020, because the seedings for the groups is a very important part of the world cup process. Unless of course they change when the seedings are finalised.

As someone who believes in the 'focus on the World Cup' approach, I think you make an excellent point. I would also suggest to that end that our scheduling the year after a World Cup (in the current format) is very important to that end. As such, travelling to play a three tour test series away in South Africa and the All Blacks in the Autumn is less than ideal. As much as the IRFU can influence such things, we would ideally have a middling or soft tour schedule the year after a World Cup maximising our chances of winning as many of our games as possible.

sydthebeat

phog wrote: »

He like Strauss and Payne can play international rugby without representing their country.

do you realise that strauss is an irish citizen ?

jm08

sydthebeat wrote: »

do you realise that strauss is an irish citizen ?

He wasn't when he first played for Ireland. It takes at least 5 years residency for Irish citizenship.

case885

sydthebeat wrote:

do you realise that strauss is an irish citizen ?

Was Strauss an Irish citizen when he first started playing for Ireland?

sydthebeat

jm08 wrote: »

He wasn't when he first played for Ireland. It takes at least 5 years residency for Irish citizenship.

are you saying im wrong?

m@cc@

sydthebeat wrote: »

are you saying im wrong?

Not wrong, just irrelvant.

sydthebeat

phog wrote: »

He like Strauss and Payne can play international rugby without representing their country.

just to show relevance ive quoted the post im replying to AGAIN

Strauss is an irish citizen therefore can play international rugby AND represent his country.


If im wrong, then show me how.....

jm08

sydthebeat wrote: »

just to show relevance ive quoted the post im replying to AGAIN

Strauss is an irish citizen therefore can play international rugby AND represent his country.


If im wrong, then show me how.....

I'd imagine he is still a SA citizen as well - he now has 2 countries.

Payne or Robbie Diack don't represent their country.

Tox56

m@cc@ wrote: »

Not wrong, just irrelvant.

How is it irrelevant? It's directly addressing the central point of the post, Strauss is now Irish, so he can represent his country and play international rugby

sydthebeat

jm08 wrote: »

I'd imagine he is still a SA citizen as well - he now has 2 countries.

Payne or Robbie Diack don't represent their country.

so phog was incorrect to lump strauss in with payne and stander

m@cc@

Tox56 wrote: »

How is it irrelevant? It's directly addressing the central point of the post, Strauss is now Irish, so he can represent his country and play international rugby

He represented Ireland before becoming a citizen. So being 'now Irish' is irrelvant. Jeez, some people.