Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

hogandrew

hogandrew wrote: »

It is funny that a coach with 2 H cups, a grand slam amongst other things is held so far down in comparison

DK?

Rightwing

Deleted User wrote: »

you tell me.

What has Conor O Shea done?

He reminds me of some of those football managers (e.g Moyes) in the premiership, guaranteed mid table mediocrity, with the odd good cup run thrown in.

wp_rathead

Deleted User wrote: »

you tell me.

What has Conor O Shea done?

with quins: Premiership, the European Challenge Cup and the LV Cup

wp_rathead

wp_rathead wrote: »

with quins: Premiership, the European Challenge Cup and the LV Cup

as coach?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

bilston wrote: »

McFadden covered wing. Versatility is fine but only to a point.

By the way given the news that Payne was injured at half time but not replaced by Madigan who we thought was there for his versatility it may be that we are now in the position to say that Madigan is on the bench because Schmidt rates him higher than Jackson. I personally find that strange but that's the way he sees it. I don't buy a lot of the criticism Joe is getting but I do think he has got his bench badly wrong. No Cronin, no Ruddock and no Jackson just doesn't make sense to me.

Madigan doesn't cover 13 though. Putting him on for Payne would have meant moving Henshaw to 13 and then, given Sexton's track record against the French, you've only got Reddan (?) on the bench to come on when Sexton goes off. Not sure what way you'd rejig the team then?

wp_rathead

Deleted User wrote: »

as coach?

director of rugby
but you knew that already

wp_rathead

wp_rathead wrote: »

director of rugby
but you knew that already

I did. I'm not sure the person I asked originally did though.

bilston

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Madigan doesn't cover 13 though. Putting him on for Payne would have meant moving Henshaw to 13 and then, given Sexton's track record against the French, you've only got Reddan (?) on the bench to come on when Sexton goes off. Not sure what way you'd rejig the team then?

Yeah, well I guess it may be that they knew that Sexton was struggling at half time as well so held Madigan back for that reason. To be fair the way he defended you wouldn't have known Payne was injured.

swiwi_

Podge_irl wrote: »

The logic seems to be that he wants as little disruption on he pitch as possible. So McFadden going onto he wing is better than Marshall to centre and henshaw/Payne to wing. I can see the logic but I think you have to throw it out when the difference in skill/form between the players is so large.

Yes, I sort of understand the minimal disruption argument but I think he should just back his players to adapt. Unless Ireland had built up a lead and just wanted safe pair of hands, McFadden offers nothing imo.

I've lost count of the games (Tox56 to insert the missing word here) has won with players off the bench. England's bench made a big difference in the weekend.

You can argue about the make-up of the starting backline, but I think the bench was a bit of shocker from Schmidt.

Anyway, we see what the English selection brings. Having Ross back will help - I was wrong about Furlong and White, it would be White I would be keeping for Twickenham at this stage.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

bilston wrote: »

Yeah, well I guess it may be that they knew that Sexton was struggling at half time as well so held Madigan back for that reason. To be fair the way he defended you wouldn't have known Payne was injured.

There was a moment in the second half where he was kneeling over on the sideline but I thought he was just exhausted, didn't realise he was injured.

Alan Quinlan is going nuts on Against the Head about the ref decisions. I'm enjoying his punditry for once.

Bazzo

swiwi_ wrote: »

Yes, I sort of understand the minimal disruption argument but I think he should just back his players to adapt. Unless Ireland had built up a lead and just wanted safe pair of hands, McFadden offers nothing imo.

I've lost count of the games (Tox56 to insert the missing word here) has won with players off the bench. England's bench made a big difference in the weekend.

You can argue about the make-up of the starting backline, but I think the bench was a bit of shocker from Schmidt.

Anyway, we see what the English selection brings. Having Ross back will help - I was wrong about Furlong and White, it would be White I would be keeping for Twickenham at this stage.

I had great hopes for Furlong too but he did actually seem to be a step down from White when he came on, even allowing for Slimani being an excellent scrummager. I'm still hopeful that he can up his game because he's only 23 but right now tighthead has to be THE problem position for Ireland. Ross is probably the clear best one we have with White second and they're 36 and 34.

wp_rathead

Deleted User wrote: »

Alan Quinlan is going nuts on Against the Head about the ref decisions. I'm enjoying his punditry for once.

i'm actually agreeing with Eddie on this one - can't be going up to TMO for everything. Looked like a knock on

errlloyd

Deleted User wrote: »

Alan Quinlan is going nuts on Against the Head about the ref decisions. I'm enjoying his punditry for once.

****ing hell, you know you've made some bad career choices in life when you're missing against the head because you're still in work. **** sake.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

wp_rathead wrote: »

i'm actually agreeing with Eddie on this one - can't be going up to TMO for everything. Looked like a knock on

My problem with Peyper though is that he goes to the TMO for lots of things that he shouldn't and then doesn't when he maybe should.

mfceiling

Marshall for me won't make the team if Payne is out. Even if he has been in camp (for a limited time) and was counted as the 24th man it showed where he was at in the pecking order when Ferg got on the bench ahead of him.

It will be Earls to 13, Zebo to 11 and RK at 15.

Bazzo

Bazzo wrote: »

I had great hopes for Furlong too but he did actually seem to be a step down from White when he came on, even allowing for Slimani being an excellent scrummager. I'm still hopeful that he can up his game because he's only 23 but right now tighthead has to be THE problem position for Ireland. Ross is probably the clear best one we have with White second and they're 36 and 34.

Marty Moore isn't gone away away!

Bazzo

Deleted User wrote: »

Marty Moore isn't gone away away!

I know Marty is still around but he hasn't seemed all that great since his last major injury to me, combine that with his injury profile and the fact he's going abroad and it's not all that promising.

Hopefully I'm wrong and he kicks on well at Wasps and gets a run of form and is in good shape for Ireland.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Bazzo wrote: »

I know Marty is still around but he hasn't seemed all that great since his last major injury to me, combine that with his injury profile and the fact he's going abroad and it's not all that promising.

Hopefully I'm wrong and he kicks on well at Wasps and gets a run of form and is in good shape for Ireland.

He'll have to be doing something remarkable at Wasps to be in contention for Ireland. Schmidt pretty much confirmed that 9 times out of 10 they're going to pick the players that are in camp full time with them.

swiwi_

Deleted User wrote: »

Alan Quinlan is going nuts on Against the Head about the ref decisions. I'm enjoying his punditry for once.

May as well have my 2c before I call it quits for the night.

Maestri should have had a YC.

The rest, meh.

Buer

wp_rathead wrote: »

with quins: Premiership, the European Challenge Cup and the LV Cup

Even allowing for the DoR situation and assuming he has a large hand in steering the match day proceedings, I'm not hugely impressed.

Excluding his first season, where he took the job mid-season, this is his 6th season there. He has finished outside the top six twice in his 5 full seasons (that would be 3 times from 6 attempts if we included his first season when they finished 8th but they were already mid table when he joined). They're currently outside the play off spots again.

In their 4 HEC/ECC campaigns under him, they've made it out of their pool once when they had one of the easiest pools in HEC history before being deservedly beaten at home by a determined but unspectacular Munster side.

He's a good coach but far from spectacular. I think people know him from being on television and possibly also him winning a European Challenge Cup match in Limerick has a disproportionate amount of influence in the minds of many.

If I was looking at AP coaches, though, I'd have him behind Mallinder, Cockerill and McCall all of whom have motivated their sides to perform with far more consistency over the past 5 years.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

some revisionism on here, eddie won a few triple crowns with limited reserves, Kidney won a slam and beat the aussies
to top our group in the world cup 2011.
This BS spin about Schmidt being our best coach is NOT FACT.
Kidney won the Slam, you follow. #1.

The Black Stags

Deleted User wrote: »

Alan Quinlan is going nuts on Against the Head about the ref decisions. I'm enjoying his punditry for once.

Blocked for people in 6 of the counties of Ulster. Which is a disgrace - can't even watch a show about my national team whose captain lives down the road from me.

rsh118

I'm looking forward to the next team selection. I think in terms of where we have come from, where we are going, and everything else it's going to be quite a telling one. I'll probably lose a little of my sanity if we see FmcF at 13!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

The Black Stags wrote: »

Blocked for people in 6 of the counties of Ulster. Which is a disgrace - can't even watch a show about my national team whose captain lives down the road from me.

Not sure if I mentioned this before but during the WC one of the Irish papers was doing a weekend supplement special and they had 3 different covers, one for each province. I was fairly miffed, I can tell you.

aimee1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Not sure if I mentioned this before but during the WC one of the Irish papers was doing a weekend supplement special and they had 3 different covers, one for each province. I was fairly miffed, I can tell you.

Ulster, Leinster and Connacht?

The Black Stags

mfceiling wrote: »

Marshall for me won't make the team if Payne is out. Even if he has been in camp (for a limited time) and was counted as the 24th man it showed where he was at in the pecking order when Ferg got on the bench ahead of him.

It will be Earls to 13, Zebo to 11 and RK at 15.

How demoralizing is it for a young player like Marshal being in the squad and 24th man, when someone who has been in poor form gets parachuted in with only a few days notice. Must be a major dent to his confidence you'd have to think.

CMOTDibbler

Leandro Round Billboard wrote: »

some revisionism on here, eddie won a few triple crowns with limited reserves, Kidney won a slam and beat the aussies
to top our group in the world cup 2011.
This BS spin about Schmidt being our best coach is NOT FACT.
Kidney won the Slam, you follow. #1.

Even Kidney said the slam was as much Eddie's as his.

vienne86

We'll have to wait to see who's available next week before we can realistically speculate about who will be picked for the England game. If Payne is not available it is hard to know who should get the gig. I would go with Marshall. I don't think it should be Earls or McFadden at all at all. i'd put Earls on the wing, and put Trimble on the other wing. Ross will more than likely start, and I think White has done enough to keep a spot in the 23. Healy will come in too, but I think McGrath is way ahead of him.

errlloyd

The Black Stags wrote: »

Blocked for people in 6 of the counties of Ulster. Which is a disgrace - can't even watch a show about my national team whose captain lives down the road from me.

Dude which do you want, Against the Head or the NHS?

Neil3030

The Black Stags wrote: »

Blocked for people in 6 of the counties of Ulster. Which is a disgrace - can't even watch a show about my national team whose captain lives down the road from me.

This strikes me as ITV's decision. They probably have rights on highlights in the UK? I wonder if RTE could stick up a podcast just of the analysis and panel discussions.

Buer

I'd love to see Marshall get the nod. He is such a talented player that lost his way due to a horrific run of injuries that, to my mind, was atrociously handled by his coaching/medical staff.

This season, he has come back and had a run of games and looked something close to the player he once was. He hasn't hit the heights of where he once looked set to hit but he's moving in that direction.

With some luck, he still has a chance of being a fixture in the Irish team for years to come.

As good as McCloskey has been, Marshall is on another level in terms of natural talent.

The Black Stags

Neil3030 wrote: »

This strikes me as ITV's decision. They probably have rights on highlights in the UK? I wonder if RTE could stick up a podcast just of the analysis and panel discussions.

I have been thinking the same, I was able to watch one episode of ATH before the 6N started. The preview/look-ahead type one.

Still - very annoying since there are no competing analysis programmes.

mfceiling

Leandro Round Billboard wrote: »

some revisionism on here, eddie won a few triple crowns with limited reserves, Kidney won a slam and beat the aussies
to top our group in the world cup 2011.
This BS spin about Schmidt being our best coach is NOT FACT.
Kidney won the Slam, you follow. #1.

My arse...

Eddie had what was referred to as "the golden generation". BOD and POC in their prime. A munster pack that were among the best in Europe.
Kidney was trailed over the line by BOD that year. But for another 3 metres Stephen Jone's kick was over the bar and it was no slam deccie.

You're some value hammering joe after a 1 point defeat in Paris. Calling for 30 different players to come in for the last 3 games. Good luck with that.

rsh118

rsh118 wrote: »

Errrr, so I've been talking to colleagues in NZ, and they got me thinking about players and body fat percentage.

I bring this up because of how Heaslip has trimmed down and is looking immense and also BoDs trimming down back in the day.

Is there a case to be made for increased incentive to cut weight for some of our players? After all, fat is just bulk that your tired muscles have to drag around for 80 minutes. I may self cut 3kgs many a seasons ago, and rather than losing the ability to break the line with my heft, actually found I was being more effective in my all round game.

Obviously there is a huge difference between me eating fewer kebabs and the top lads, but I wonder is if time to experiment of fitness over weight. Cian Healy could be the poster boy. A 112kg prop who has an excellent all round game thanks to excellent fitness. Thinking aloud here...

Sorry for bringing this up if it's been dealt with, backreading miles back

When I was doing my Sports science degree back in NZ, John Mathew (AB's doctor) came and talked to us for a lecture. He said that one of the issues with elite Rugby players was stopping them from getting too lean. He wouldn't let them go below 10%, as the body fat would help with protection during impact.

This was over 10 years ago, things might have changed.

Yeah_Right

swiwi_ wrote: »

Yes, I sort of understand the minimal disruption argument but I think he should just back his players to adapt. Unless Ireland had built up a lead and just wanted safe pair of hands, McFadden offers nothing imo.

I've lost count of the games (Tox56 to insert the missing word here) has won with players off the bench. England's bench made a big difference in the weekend.

You can argue about the make-up of the starting backline, but I think the bench was a bit of shocker from Schmidt.

Anyway, we see what the English selection brings. Having Ross back will help - I was wrong about Furlong and White, it would be White I would be keeping for Twickenham at this stage.

I agree with you on the make up of the bench. I think they should go with more impact and worry less about injury cover. The problem is the lack of players that could make an impact off the bench. Gilroy maybe but there's the danger that he'd be so excited that he'd screw up and he is dodger defensively. Fitz is the obvious choice but he's made of glass. I think McCloskey or Marshall might be the best bet and if it means shuffling then so be it.

I wouldn't worry about Furlong. In propping terms, he's a baby. A few rough games getting twisted and folded in half will do him good. Props (especially THs) don't tend to get good till their late 20s early 30s.

I'd love to see JvdF get a go. I just have a feeling about him that if he was chucked in the deep end like a certain R. McCaw, he would step up. SOB is out give him a go. I'd also have Dillaine on the bench.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I'd love to see JvdF get a go. I just have a feeling about him that if he was chucked in the deep end like a certain R. McCaw, he would step up. SOB is out give him a go. I'd also Dillaine on the bench.

I doubt very much we'll see those kinds of changes for the England match but depending on what the result there is I wouldn't mind seeing those guys get a run out against Italy and/or Scotland.

I know some people are concerned about the rankings for the World Cup draws and we've got a lot of tough matches this year but if not now when? I'd assume a poor mid table finish this year would put even more pressure on the team for next year's 6 Nations and blooding players against Italy and Scotland seems a much more reasonable thing to do than against South Africa or New Zealand.

pickarooney

davegrohl48 wrote: »

You would think Mccloskey suits the current tactics. Big and powerful. He would be a big stepup in getting over the gainline.

He's not a whole bunch bigger than Henshaw. We need someone to either step and glide or draw and pass, not more brainless barging.

Yeah_Right

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I doubt very much we'll see those kinds of changes for the England match but depending on what the result there is I wouldn't mind seeing those guys get a run out against Italy and/or Scotland.

I don't expect to see those changes. Unless McCarthy is out, then Dillaine will be on the bench. I think TOD is a journeyman. He will put in a hard days work and generally be error free but that's it. JvdF could be something special.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

pickarooney wrote: »

He's not a whole bunch bigger than Henshaw. We need someone to either step and glide or draw and pass, not more brainless barging.

Someone smaller than Henshaw, you say?

wp_rathead

Not the team I want but assuming McCarthy, Payne and Dave are out I'd expect Joe to go with the following 23 against England:

R Kearney
Trimble / Marshall* / Henshaw / Earls*
Sexton / Murray
Stander / Heaslip / O'Donnell
Toner / Ryan
Ross / Best / McGrath

Strauss / Healy / White / Dillane / Ruddock / Reddan / Madigan / Zebo*

Marshall at 13 is a straight swap with Payne
Ryan at 5 is a straight swap with Macca
Earls at 11 is a straight swap with Dave Kearney

Would like Marmion and Jackson on bench but don't see it

*Edit:
If Joe goes for Earls 13, Zebo 11 and Marshall (or McFadden) bench then it'll be kick in the nuts

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Has Cave been in the training camps at all?

Bazzo

I see Tommy Bowe has put up on facebook that he's on the way to Chicago for "an interesting announcement". Guessing that will be confirmations of the match vs the All Blacks.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Bazzo wrote: »

I see Tommy Bowe has put up on facebook that he's on the way to Chicago for "an interesting announcement". Guessing that will be confirmations of the match vs the All Blacks.

He's signed as a running back for the Bears.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

mfceiling wrote: »

My arse...

Eddie had what was referred to as "the golden generation". BOD and POC in their prime. A munster pack that were among the best in Europe.
Kidney was trailed over the line by BOD that year. But for another 3 metres Stephen Jone's kick was over the bar and it was no slam deccie.

You're some value hammering joe after a 1 point defeat in Paris. Calling for 30 different players to come in for the last 3 games. Good luck with that.

Schmidt has Ireland playing the most boring rugby. We are dreadful to watch.
Look at the stats for the 2 games so far
1 try
3 offloads
Schmidt deserves the flak he is getting.
sick of the excuses, injuries, french bullied us, referees did not help us.
If Schmidt was the second coming like many posters here think he is, he would
not be so full of excuses.
we lost to a very poor France by 1 point because Schmidt has his team so afraid of making mistakes that they play with negativity as their mindset.
Schmidt must stop being a control freak and let players make some of the decisions on the field.

also Kidney is our best manager ever, slam trumps everything.

Podge_irl

Leandro Round Billboard wrote: »

we lost to a very poor France by 1 point because Schmidt has his team so afraid of making mistakes that they play with negativity as their mindset.

Meh. The only reason we weren't well on top of the French at half time was entirely because of stupid mistakes.

rsh118

Basil3 wrote: »

Sorry for bringing this up if it's been dealt with, backreading miles back

When I was doing my Sports science degree back in NZ, John Mathew (AB's doctor) came and talked to us for a lecture. He said that one of the issues with elite Rugby players was stopping them from getting too lean. He wouldn't let them go below 10%, as the body fat would help with protection during impact.

This was over 10 years ago, things might have changed.

That's a pretty interesting take on what to do in that situation. Was he talking as a doctor or in elite sport terms?

On a side note, fair punishment for Maestri, but it's the team that now need to be fined for saying they'll target player, and following through illegally. Brings the sport into disrepute, slows down play, and gives the other codes ammo.

mfceiling

Moore, Ross, Healy, Henderson, McCarthy, SOB, POM, Fitz, Bowe, DK, Zebo, Earls.

Throw in a game played in atrocious conditions away from home and there's a point in it at the end.

Yeah....sack the coach, dump all the current players and bring in an entirely new team who off load every time. Defence? Nah don't worry about that...they score 40, sure we'll try and score 50.

Bazzo

rsh118 wrote: »

That's a pretty interesting take on what to do in that situation. Was he talking as a doctor or in elite sport terms?

On a side note, fair punishment for Maestri, but it's the team that now need to be fined for saying they'll target player, and following through illegally. Brings the sport into disrepute, slows down play, and gives the other codes ammo.

I don't think he got any punishment tbh. Just a penalty during the game and told careful now by the citing commissioner.

Anyway I've made my feelings on it clear and what's done is done now so I'll leave it.

rsh118

Bazzo wrote: »

I don't think he got any punishment tbh. Just a penalty during the game and told careful now by the citing commissioner.

Anyway I've made my feelings on it clear and what's done is done now so I'll leave it.

If he accrues 2 yellows of one and another warning he'll be cited. I still reckon it's the whole team that needs hammering...