Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

jacothelad

calico77 wrote: »

Thats not What horgan said though

Horgan said that 'many' people considered a front row of Healy, Strauss and Ross to be Ireland's best.

gamma001

Billysays no wrote: »

As Shane Horgan said today, Healy Strauss and Ross. Go Joe, you're on a roll, do what you do best, stick with it. In the meantime matt Healy will continue to roll in the tries and tiernan o'halloran shows how a full back plays and how a full back releases a winger. Not this rob (yawn) kearney , let's just take the contact. And god knows the young rob Kearney reminds me exactly of o'halloran these days. Waltzing thru defenses.

I had you blocked but I decided to unblock because your posts are pretty entertaining. Prime example.

OldRio

stephen_n wrote: »

I know some fullbacks playing junior rugby that are brilliant at cutting through defences. Maybe Joe should consider them for the international team too. It's funny that when Connacht played Leinster TOH looked very very ordinary, maybe that had something to do with the strength of Leinsters defence? But hey sure Leinsters defence has to be miles better than anything at international level?

If I remember correctly the conditions for the Leinster v Connacht game were awful. So I wouldn't judge TOH on the one game you saw him in.
The same as you couldn't judge him just on the game yesterday.

stephen_n

OldRio wrote: »

If I remember correctly the conditions for the Leinster v Connacht game were awful. So I wouldn't judge TOH on the one game you saw him in.
The same as you couldn't judge him just on the game yesterday.

I have seen him play more than one game and I'm not judging him. I'm saying that yesterday's game was not one to judge anyone's international potential on. Flouncers original post suggested that TOH's performance yesterday makes him better than RK. Using any pro 12 game as a measure for international suitability is a bad idea, using one against Zebre is just pointless. I thought yesterday's game was a brilliant spectacle to watch but was probably the worst exponent of professional rugby I've seen.

awec

jacothelad wrote: »

Horgan said that 'many' people considered a front row of Healy, Strauss and Ross to be Ireland's best.

Yea but it was Horgan. Not surprising he'd say something like that.

Got called up on it straight away.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

stephen_n wrote: »

I know some fullbacks playing junior rugby that are brilliant at cutting through defences. Maybe Joe should consider them for the international team too.

This guy is probably free next weekend. He might have to do his homework on the bus but sure Joe could help him with that.

https://twitter.com/SetantaSports/status/696785583515938816

rsh118

I was just having a look out the back shed for my Ulster Rugby Persecution Complex (c), but it seems to have gone missing...

shootermacg

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

This guy is probably free next weekend. He might have to do his homework on the bus but sure Joe could help him with that.

https://twitter.com/SetantaSports/status/696785583515938816

Guy had a 2 v 1 on the outside and backed himself to run at the two defenders. Good job he's fast.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

shootermacg wrote: »

Guy had a 2 v 1 on the outside and backed himself to run at the two defenders. Good job he's fast.

He'd already scored one so he was on a high. A confidence player is exactly what we need back there, sign him up Joe!

former total

awec wrote: »

Yea but it was Horgan. Not surprising he'd say something like that.

Got called up on it straight away.

He was pretty clear that he didn't think so himself

JPNelsforearm

shootermacg wrote: »

Guy had a 2 v 1 on the outside and backed himself to run at the two defenders. Good job he's fast.

Thats a good thing. He has the bottle and physical ability to do it.

Mahatma Geansai

jacothelad wrote: »

Horgan said that 'many' people considered a front row of Healy, Strauss and Ross to be Ireland's best.

That's no real surprise though really. It is Horgan after all.

Bazzo

Lads ye should know not to get wound up by a certain poster's ridiculous posts, but reacting over the top by calling young promising players like TOH average or worse isn't a great reflection either.

TOH is one of the best young prospects in the country at full back, he should hopefully be involved with the Irish squad soon-ish and all he can do in the mean time is continue putting in good performanes in the pro 12 because you have to play what's in front of you. You can't prove yourself against better opposition internationally until you're given a chance, obviously

calico77

Bazzo wrote: »

Lads ye should know not to get wound up by a certain poster's ridiculous posts, but reacting over the top by calling young promising players like TOH average or worse isn't a great reflection either.

TOH is one of the best young prospects in the country at full back, he should hopefully be involved with the Irish squad soon-ish and all he can do in the mean time is continue putting in good performanes in the pro 12 because you have to play what's in front of you. You can't prove yourself against better opposition internationally until you're given a chance, obviously

Connacht are top of the pro12. Only the bottom 4 have conceded more points. TOH may be the best attacking 15 in the country this season but is he defensively good enough for international rugby?

Pink Fairy

calico77 wrote: »

Connacht are top of the pro12. Only the bottom 4 have conceded more points. TOH may be the best attacking 15 in the country this season but is he defensively good enough for international rugby?

As RK fans will tell you, defense isn't the biggest part of an international fullbacks remit

Podge_irl

Pink Fairy wrote: »

As RK fans will tell you, defense isn't the biggest part of an international fullbacks remit

I think it's more likely we'd say tackling isn't the biggest part of defense for a fullback.

CMOTDibbler

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

That's no real surprise though really. It is Horgan after all.

Horgan thinks he's 'many people' :eek:

former total

So predictions for the England game? I think despite what Joe said the other day, it won't be major.

Healy on the bench, J Cronin out.
Ross to start, White to bench, Furlong out.
Ryan to replace McCarthy, Dillane to bench.
Ruddock to bench with SOB gone.
Zebo and Earls in for DK and McFadden. McFadden to continue on the bench if Zebo not fit.

Can't see any major surprises until the Italy game.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

former total wrote: »

So predictions for the England game? I think despite what Joe said the other day, it won't be major.

Technically we're still in the running to win the championship, unlikely, but still mathematically possible, so you'd have to assume we'd go with the strongest team available. So injury forced changes are the only ones I can see, as you say.

The Black Stags

former total wrote: »

So predictions for the England game? I think despite what Joe said the other day, it won't be major.

Healy on the bench, J Cronin out.
Ross to start, White to bench, Furlong out.
Ryan to replace McCarthy, Dillane to bench.
Ruddock to bench with SOB gone.
Zebo and Earls in for DK and McFadden. McFadden to continue on the bench if Zebo not fit.

Can't see any major surprises until the Italy game.

I think he'll feel there's enough disruption due to enforced injures.
Dillane should at least bench.
He won't drop Payne unless he really has to. (I don't know how bad his injury is)
If Payne doesn't play he'll put Earls to 13.

Will be interesting to see if he calls up any other wing/fullback cover during the week.

I don't see why he'd have White on the bench. He's been poor enough in both games and you'll get more around the pitch from Furlong.

ClanofLams

For about two years before Mike Mccarthy got called up, Connacht supporters were saying he should be in the squad. When he finally got the chance he showed himself as being well able to operate at that level. I look forward to similar happening with TO'H.

captbarnacles

If Payne starts and we get scrum parity we are going to win imo.

irishbucsfan

ClanofLams wrote: »

For about two years before Mike Mccarthy got called up, Connacht supporters were saying he should be in the squad. When he finally got the chance he showed himself as being well able to operate at that level. I look forward to similar happening with TO'H.

Yeah but it goes both ways, there was a time when Connacht fans were shocked at the exclusion of Carr and Hagan.

calico77

Gilroy, healy, ross, Murphy and foley added to training squad

JPNelsforearm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah but it goes both ways, there was a time when Connacht fans were shocked at the exclusion of Carr and Hagan.

Carr deserved a few caps, he was banging in tries for fun.

Teferi

Murphy is a bit of an odd call there.

calico77

Teferi wrote: »

Murphy is a bit of an odd call there.

SoB out. ToD was ill over weekend by all accounts. Makes some sense but would expect Stander, TOD, Heaslip with Ruddock on bench.

Utah_Saint

Teferi wrote: »

Murphy is a bit of an odd call there.

Systems and form....

dub_skav

Teferi wrote: »

Murphy is a bit of an odd call there.

COuld Van Der Flier have a slight knock that we don't know about? Or maybe one of O'Donnell or Ruddock is a bit worse for wear?

The selections for the provinces left a few backrow questions up in the air, but I suppoer with O'Brien out, bringing in another body shouldn't be too shocking.

Anatom

Its going to take an incredible and sustained effort from everyone, as well as a couple of huge slices of luck, to get a win in Twickers this weekend.

Tinkering around to manage injuries etc. won't take away from the fact that we need all 23 to take a huge step up in performance. The English have done well so far, but this is their biggest game at home since Jones came in and they'll want to beat us up and down the pitch to please their own.

Just my opinion, but I'd throw in as many hungry young lads as we can muster in there and give them their head. I'd also bench Sexton and bring him on late in the game, if at all. To, you know, just stop him getting hurt again...

thomond2006

calico77 wrote: »

Gilroy, healy, ross, Murphy and foley added to training squad

Forwards (18):
Finlay Bealham (Corinthians/Connacht)*
Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
Sean Cronin (St. Mary’s College/Leinster)
Ultan Dillane (Corinthians/Connacht)*
David Foley (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster)
Jack McGrath (St Mary’s College/Leinster)
Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Tommy O’Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
Rhys Ruddock (St Mary’s College/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
CJ Stander (Munster)
Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)*
Nathan White (Connacht)

Backs (16):
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster)
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Patrick Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht)
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
Stuart McCloskey (Ballynahinch/Ulster)*
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Jared Payne (Ulster)
Eoin Reddan (Old Crescent/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (St Mary’s College/Leinster)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)

I hope to see:
McGrath, Best, Ross, Ryan, Toner, Stander, TOD, Heaslip;
Murray, Sexton, Zebo, McCloskey, Henshaw, Earls, Payne*

Cronin, Healy, Bealham, Dillane, Ruddock, Marmion, Jackson, R Kearney

*Payne if fit. Otherwise Zebo to 15 with Gilroy starting.

Bealham can play TH right? I don't see much point in playing both Mike Ross (36) and Nathan White (34). The scrum has been under pressure so I think Ross should start to hopefully gain parity.

Tbh after this game I wouldn't mind if Sexton was rested/benched for Scotland and Italy. We certainly don't want him burned out / injured by the time the South Africa tour arrives.

former total

Murphy has improved in recent weeks so it's no big surprise. I would have expected Henry to be named but he looked well short of match fitness yesterday. Don't think it will have any impact on the match day squad. Gilroy likewise, if Zebo is fit again it won't matter (unless Payne is out)).

Healy and Ross, well that was always going to happen.

Mr Tickle

How did Chris Henry do at the weekend?
Any obvious reason he wasn't called up?

*Edit: was just answered in above post.

awec

former total wrote: »

Murphy has improved in recent weeks so it's no big surprise. I would have expected Henry to be named but he looked well short of match fitness yesterday. Don't think it will have any impact on the match day squad. Gilroy likewise, if Zebo is fit again it won't matter (unless Payne is out)).

Healy and Ross, well that was always going to happen.

He has?

Incredibly average against the Blues and a yellow card.

awec

Mr Tickle wrote: »

How did Chris Henry do at the weekend?
Any obvious reason he wasn't called up?

Very meh. Doesn't deserve a call up on his form.

connemara man

awec wrote: »

Very meh. Doesn't deserve a call up on his form.

But systems.........

former total

awec wrote: »

He has?

Incredibly average against the Blues and a yellow card.

Yep, he has.

You'll notice how my post didn't say "Murphy had a great game in Cardiff", it said "he has improved in recent weeks". He was OK in Cardiff, tackled like a machine, yellow card was a bit stupid but these things happen to backrowers.

OldRio

awec wrote: »

Very meh. Doesn't deserve a call up on his form.

Ah come on. You know form doesn't count.;)

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

What are the odds Gilroy gets cited for leading with the elbow yesterday and is straight back out of the squad again?

Although he could probably still train with them and unless Joe was planning on playing him it won't matter.

captbarnacles

Why is Payne a doubt for weekend? Can't see anything on twitter

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

captbarnacles wrote: »

Why is Payne a doubt for weekend? Can't see anything on twitter

He did his hamstring in the France match.

Mr Tickle

captbarnacles wrote: »

Why is Payne a doubt for weekend? Can't see anything on twitter

He strained his hamstring during the game last week. Played on but he was rested from training since.

Buer

Murphy is lucky to be called up, in my opinion. I didn't think he was anything special against Cardiff including defensively. He was busy but certainly not stand out in terms of his tackle count and was anonymous in terms of carrying in a game where the pack took on the bulk of ball. Guys like Mick Kearney, Conan and Ruddock were far more prominent.

He's definitely getting the benefit of familiarity with the set up.

awec

former total wrote: »

Yep, he has.

You'll notice how my post didn't say "Murphy had a great game in Cardiff", it said "he has improved in recent weeks". He was OK in Cardiff, tackled like a machine, yellow card was a bit stupid but these things happen to backrowers.

By "improved" do you mean he has gone from being noticeably awful to just not noticeable at all during a game?

former total

awec wrote: »

By "improved" do you mean he has gone from being noticeably awful to just not noticeable at all during a game?

I mean he's a player who has shown he is capable of performing at international level, whose form fell off a cliff after the World Cup, who was (rightly) left out of the initial squad but who has shown some improvement and maybe Joe thinks he can be of benefit to the squad.

As per my first post, he won't feature this weekend anyway so I'm not particularly bothered about it. I'm not sure why you are.

awec

awec wrote: »

By "improved" do you mean he has gone from being noticeably awful to just not noticeable at all during a game?

Out of interest, did you watch the game against Cardiff on Saturday?

I only ask because our back row basically won it for us. Conditions were terrible so backs didn't get much into the game at all. Our front row scrummed them off the pitch for the first 40 minutes, but Murphy, Conan and Ruddock all had good to excellent performances.

Murphy and Healy both looked to be finding some good form, and Healy was a brute in the scrum.

Honestly, I'd rather hold onto Murphy but I'm not desperately surprised by his call up. Pretty unlikely he will play but given his performance against England last year I wouldn't be overly worried either.

I'd be a lot more worried about Foley in the second row truth be told.

awec

former total wrote: »

I mean he's a player who has shown he is capable of performing at international level, whose form fell off a cliff after the World Cup, who was (rightly) left out of the initial squad but who has shown some improvement and maybe Joe thinks he can be of benefit to the squad.

As per my first post, he won't feature this weekend anyway so I'm not particularly bothered about it. I'm not sure why you are.

I'm not upset by his call up, there's probably nobody else we can call up right now.

Just taking issue with the notion that he's been improving. He has been mostly rubbish and any improvement must be minor at best.

I don't think he's a 7 though and playing there will only exaggerate his faults. 6 or 8 only.

awec

Deleted User wrote: »

Out of interest, did you watch the game against Cardiff on Saturday?

I only ask because our back row basically won it for us. Conditions were terrible so backs didn't get much into the game at all. Our front row scrummed them off the pitch for the first 40 minutes, but Murphy, Conan and Ruddock all had good to excellent performances.

Murphy and Healy both looked to be finding some good form, and Healy was a brute in the scrum.

Honestly, I'd rather hold onto Murphy but I'm not desperately surprised by his call up. Pretty unlikely he will play but given his performance against England last year I wouldn't be overly worried either.

I'd be a lot more worried about Foley in the second row truth be told.

Yes I watched it. If you think Murphy was excellent I am genuinely not sure what to say.

Conan was certainly excellent, Ruddock very good. Murphy was neither of these things.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

former total wrote: »

As per my first post, he won't feature this weekend anyway so I'm not particularly bothered about it. I'm not sure why you are.

Exactly the attitude I had when McFadden was called up last week and he ended up playing most of the match.