Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Scythica wrote: »

So we assumine Dillane at least will get his first cap. I see him being talked about a bit on the 42 and that. What sort of 2nd row is he? Aware it's probably been talked about before.

Doesn't speak to any of his qualities as a 2nd row but....

https://twitter.com/SportsJOEdotie/status/689396835878735872

leakyboots

Scythica wrote: »

So we assumine Dillane at least will get his first cap. I see him being talked about a bit on the 42 and that. What sort of 2nd row is he? Aware it's probably been talked about before.

Athletic, powerful enough for a young lad... think Courtney Lawes-ish (but hopefully without the penchant for casual violence )

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Yay!

b.gud

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Doesn't speak to any of his qualities as a 2nd row but....

https://twitter.com/SportsJOEdotie/status/689396835878735872

That's clip actually says a lot about him. The main thing it shows is the hit, and it's not a one off he's a really aggressive, but legal, tackler. When he was called up to the Irish squad,i remember of every of the Connacht players saying it was great because it would give the team a break from his tackles in training

But the slightly more subtle thing it shows is his work rate. Watch the clip again and you'll see that he really works hard to get back and make the tackle,he was a good distance away from where the initial read was made

former total

Oh dear

Scythica

So from those 2 pictures.

Gilroy to 13 cough

Yeah_Right

leakyboots wrote: »

Original point being, both he and Henshaw can more than adequately cover 15 (I'd argue they'd improve us greatly there such is their experience/flair in the position), thus freeing up the centre to develop options there for the future.

I agree they could cover FB no problem. That's one of the reasons I think McCloskey could be on the bench as he could come on as an impact sub and Henshaw could move to FB. The fact is Payne is vital to Ireland at centre

My issue is people referring to them as specialist FBs playing out of position. It's like people saying SOB is out of position at 7 and should be playing 6 or 8. Or Ruddock should play lock.

Moflojo

Scythica wrote: »

So from those 2 pictures.

Gilroy to 13 cough

"We believe that Craig Gilroy would be a great choice to play centre for Ireland."
- Boards.ie Management

You want clicks on your website? This is how you get clicks on your website.

awec

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I agree they could cover FB no problem. That's one of the reasons I think McCloskey could be on the bench as he could come on as an impact sub and Henshaw could move to FB. The fact is Payne is vital to Ireland at centre

My issue is people referring to them as specialist FBs playing out of position. It's like people saying SOB is out of position at 7 and should be playing 6 or 8. Or Ruddock should play lock.

I don't think it's anything like that.

Ok, Payne hasn't played 15 at test level so how good he'd be is a bit unknown. But we can compare and contrast his appearances for Ulster at 13 and at 15 and I don't think anyone could suggest anything other than he is much better at 15. The difference in his performances is very significant.

SOB is excellent at 6 and 7 for Leinster. Payne is excellent at 15 for Ulster and decent at 13.

So I don't think it's beyond reasonable to say he is a 15 primarily, seeing as every single one of his best performances for Ulster have all come in that position. When he was playing there for Ulster regularly a season or two ago he was considered by quite a few to be the best back on this island, not just the best full back. He has never, ever hit that sort of form in the centre.

calico77

What I expect the team will be.....
Mcgrath, best, ross, toner, Ryan, stander, TOD, Heaslip
Murray, sexton, zebo, henshaw, earls, trimble, Kearney

What I would like to see (same 1-10 as above) and a backline of
Earls, mccloskey, henshaw, gilroy, Kearney

Yeah_Right

Awec, we all know your feelings about Payne at centre.

You have to admit that the role he plays a defensive leader for Ireland is vital. I don't think there's anyone else ready to fill that role yet.

thomond2006

Moflojo wrote: »

You want clicks on your website? This is how you get clicks on your website.

YOU WON'T BELIEVE THE OUTRAGEOUS SELECTION BY BOARDS.IE

Mr Tickle

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Awec, we all know your feelings about Payne at centre.

You have to admit that the role he plays a defensive leader for Ireland is vital. I don't think there's anyone else ready to fill that role yet.

He is vital there alright. It's been said in a heap of interviews by fellow players. I know Connor Murray was singing his praises this week.

I'd like to think that Henshaw isn't far off being able to take this role though. Both have a good ability to read a game well. I hope we see one of them shifted to FB at some point to make room for McCloskey

awec

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Awec, we all know your feelings about Payne at centre.

You have to admit that the role he plays a defensive leader for Ireland is vital. I don't think there's anyone else ready to fill that role yet.

My feelings are strong Yeah Right, nearly broke my keyboard typing that post out!

He can defend for Ireland yea. If you got points on the board for defending he'd be truly invaluable. If Ireland want to play him there then so be it. It'd be disappointing if we persist with what must be the dullest centre partnership in world rugby but so be it.

Him playing 13 for Ulster annoys me a lot more. It actually weakens us.

NiallBoo

Yeah_Right wrote: »

My issue is people referring to them as specialist FBs playing out of position. It's like people saying SOB is out of position at 7 and should be playing 6 or 8.

It's not that they can't do it, but they have their positions where they perform best.

It's logical to play them in a secondary position if they're the best options available but if other players become available or they're more needed in their preferred position then you shouldn't hesitate to move them back.

Payne has been a solid defender at centre but is far from irreplaceable - especially as ireland really, really need more attacking threat (though I'm not suggesting that's all down to Payne, he's been only average in that regard). I wouldn't have the slightest doubt about him being FB internationally.

Moflojo

thomond2006 wrote: »

YOU WON'T BELIEVE THE OUTRAGEOUS SELECTION BY BOARDS.IE

NUMBER 13 WILL BLOW YOUR MIND!

Clearlier

Mr Tickle wrote: »

He is vital there alright. It's been said in a heap of interviews by fellow players. I know Connor Murray was singing his praises this week.

I'd like to think that Henshaw isn't far off being able to take this role though. Both have a good ability to read a game well. I hope we see one of them shifted to FB at some point to make room for McCloskey

I've seen very little of Henshaw at 13 but from what I have seen I would agree that he looks to have an awful lot of what's needed defensively. His defensive judgement may even be better at 13 than 12. For all that his individual threat was diminished in later years it's clear that we're continuing to badly miss BOD in attack. We haven't got anybody capable of putting on the attacking masterclass such as he did against Italy in 2014. Earls offers a greater individual attacking threat than Payne but he's not great at getting passes away and we all know about his relative defensive weakness.

Scythica

Moflojo wrote: »

thomond2006 wrote: »

YOU WON'T BELIEVE THE OUTRAGEOUS SELECTION BY BOARDS.IE

NUMBER 13 WILL BLOW YOUR MIND!

SCHMIDT READY TO CURE PROVINCIAL DIVISION BY FORCING ZEBO AND DAVE KEARNEY TO HAVE A BABY TOGETHER

errlloyd

Scythica wrote: »

SCHMIDT READY TO CURE PROVINCIAL DIVISION BY FORCING ZEBO AND DAVE KEARNEY TO HAVE A BABY TOGETHER

Ends up with the body of Kearney but the rugby brain of Zebo.

****

Neil3030

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9jltodVhAU

Try of the year 2008, featuring Reddan box kicking, Heaslip bossing the unseen work and Kearney offloading in contact.

Neil3030

Neil3030 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9jltodVhAU

Try of the year 2008, featuring Reddan box kicking, Heaslip bossing the unseen work and Kearney offloading in contact.

Don't forget arguably our best ever No.8, Leamy, with a brilliant take

Mr Tickle

Clearlier wrote: »

I've seen very little of Henshaw at 13 but from what I have seen I would agree that he looks to have an awful lot of what's needed defensively. His defensive judgement may even be better at 13 than 12. For all that his individual threat was diminished in later years it's clear that we're continuing to badly miss BOD in attack. We haven't got anybody capable of putting on the attacking masterclass such as he did against Italy in 2014. Earls offers a greater individual attacking threat than Payne but he's not great at getting passes away and we all know about his relative defensive weakness.

We're also not getting the best out of Henshaw in attack. He's much more than just a bull dozer. Give him more space and he'll show that.

Anatom

Mr Tickle wrote: »

We're also not getting the best out of Henshaw in attack. He's much more than just a bull dozer. Give him more space and he'll show that.

We're getting far too little out of ANYONE in attack. That's our biggest problem.

Number 137

I get the feeling we could see more of the same selection wise this weekend. Maybe then we might see rotation in the final two games, at home to the weakest sides in the championship.

Mr Tickle

Anatom wrote: »

We're getting far too little out of ANYONE in attack. That's our biggest problem.

We have been a little lacking but having our best team on the pitch is an obvious first step.

Mr Tickle

Number 137 wrote: »

I get the feeling we could see more of the same selection wise this weekend. Maybe then we might see rotation in the final two games, at home to the weakest sides in the championship.

that's the fear. Earls to 13. zebo on the wing and McFadden on the bench.

Number 137

I would hope that Henshaw to 13, with McCloskey to 12 would be the option Schmidt takes if Payne is unavailable. Earls at 13 just doesn't show any forward thinking in my humble opinion. But you may end up being right Mr Tickle.

bilston

Neil3030 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9jltodVhAU

Try of the year 2008, featuring Reddan box kicking, Heaslip bossing the unseen work and Kearney offloading in contact.

Paddy Wallace's distribution from 12 made that try :-)

Anatom

bilston wrote: »

Paddy Wallace's distribution from 12 made that try :-)

I was wondering how long it would take!

stephen_n

Anatom wrote: »

We're getting far too little out of ANYONE in attack. That's our biggest problem.

Yep the 7 clean line breaks against Wales were just a mistake.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

POM back in training with Munster today. Hopefully back for Ireland by the summer tour.

NiallBoo

stephen_n wrote: »

Yep the 7 clean line breaks against Wales were just a mistake.

Well, I suppose the Welsh would agree...

irishbucsfan

stephen_n wrote: »

Yep the 7 clean line breaks against Wales were just a mistake.

Do you think we attacked well against Wales? Particularly in the 2nd half?

stephen_n

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Do you think we attacked well against Wales? Particularly in the 2nd half?

I think we created a lot of opportunities that we didn't capitalise on. The second half not so much so. We seem to have difficulty with that in general though under Joe. Over all I think we attacked quite well in the Welsh game yes.

Stheno

Easterby mentioned earls and marshall as players who can play 13 on the radio earlier

AbusesToilets

stephen_n wrote: »

I think we created a lot of opportunities that we didn't capitalise on. The second half not so much so. We seem to have difficulty with that in general though under Joe. Over all I think we attacked quite well in the Welsh game yes.

We're really poor at taking advantage of line breaks with trail runners. That's one thing that NZ do so well. Half break and pop the ball up into the gap for the trail runner to punch through. You can see players like Payne looking to do this but no one's there to exploit.

wp_rathead

Stheno wrote: »

Easterby mentioned earls and marshall as players who can play 13 on the radio earlier

well he is half right

Neil3030

bilston wrote: »

Paddy Wallace's distribution from 12 made that try :-)

It sure did.

Now, the fact that he was aiming for O'Driscoll is beside the point...

Buer

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

POM back in training with Munster today. Hopefully back for Ireland by the summer tour.

Hopefully he's left at home. He's returning from a severe injury, I can't imagine too much benefit to be gained from throwing him straight into test duty on a very tough 3 match tour of South Africa. Let him come back into his test jersey fully fit and firing in autumn.

Noopti

AbusesToilets wrote: »

We're really poor at taking advantage of line breaks with trail runners. That's one thing that NZ do so well. Half break and pop the ball up into the gap for the trail runner to punch through. You can see players like Payne looking to do this but no one's there to exploit.

Wasn't BOD talking about this on OTB? That it is like our players just don't expect it to happen and therefore when it does there is rarely anyone on the players shoulder to take a pass or an offload. The players are basically expecting the next ruck.

Was interesting listening to Matt Williams and EOS too. I do think Williams has valid points on occasions, but the way he presents them is terrible. It usually comes across more that it annoys him the Irish fans and media like Schmidt, rather than actually just expressing what he thinks is wrong in any sort of detail or clarity.

In the chat on Monday he did avoid the "media love Schmidt too much. Southern Hemisphere don't care" nonsense, but his analysis was so high level. All he could say was "the players are just looking for contact and the collision" and that we don't score enough tries. Anyone can say that. It was in stark contrast to EOS who went into detail on Irelands "three ruck rotation" and that there was some subtlety on display against Wales which is promising, while conceding that we are quite predictable and that Williams main point about lack of incisiveness was valid.

The contrast between the two was stark in my opinion.

LorMal

Have to say, I disagree with you there Noopti. I think Matt Williams has been honest and forthright in his analysis. He rightly said that our attacking play was (and is) blunt and ineffectual - even if we did manage to narrowly win the 6N last year. He has been proved correct.

In Ireland, it seems to be regarded as almost unpatriotic to criticise the team (and especially the current national coach). Most pundits pay lip service to criticism and use mundane platitudes when reviewing poor performances.

I do not like personal criticism of any player or coach - people are doing their best with limited resources. However, we should be able to critically analyse where we are going wrong without being afraid of a backlash from 'loyal supporters'.

Noopti

I don't think we are disagreeing at all, I agree that our attack has been pretty impotent for a while!
My main point was the way Williams gets his point across, compared to someone like EOS - which was more obvious on OTB yesterday as they were both on the show. Even though both are basically making the same point, I am much more likely to listen to EOS and his more analytical and (seemingly) thought out approach, compared to Williams more emotional (if that is the right word) approach. Williams sounds more like a fan of rugby, compared to EOS actually sounding like someone who knows the detail of what is happening. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but as an experienced coach himself I would like him to elaborate a bit more on his thoughts and give me some specifics!

captbarnacles

Christian Cullen ran the best support lines I've ever seen. Always seemed to be right on the shoulder of whoever made a break. Worked great with the AB's because he usually got the pass but not so much at clubs where he didn't and then you have a big problem because your full back is MIA.

Yeah_Right

Noopti wrote: »

I don't think we are disagreeing at all, I agree that our attack has been pretty impotent for a while!
My main point was the way Williams gets his point across, compared to someone like EOS - which was more obvious on OTB yesterday as they were both on the show. Even though both are basically making the same point, I am much more likely to listen to EOS and his more analytical and (seemingly) thought out approach, compared to Williams more emotional (if that is the right word) approach. Williams sounds more like a fan of rugby, compared to EOS actually sounding like someone who knows the detail of what is happening. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but as an experienced coach himself I would like him to elaborate a bit more on his thoughts and give me some specifics!

I get what you're saying Noopti. Williams comes across as if he's got an axe to grind rather providing analysis. I have no issue with criticising the players, the tactics, the selections but give evidence and back it up. Especially if you are a former international coach. Some of his comments strike me as lazy.

CMOTDibbler

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I get what you're saying Noopti. Williams comes across as if he's got an axe to grind rather providing analysis. I have no issue with criticising the players, the tactics, the selections but give evidence and back it up. Especially if you are a former international coach. Some of his comments strike me as lazy.

The annoying thing is we know he's capable of structured and reasoned analysis. He just seems to fall back on cliches and statements of the obvious at times for no reason.

Noopti

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I get what you're saying Noopti. Williams comes across as if he's got an axe to grind rather providing analysis. I have no issue with criticising the players, the tactics, the selections but give evidence and back it up. Especially if you are a former international coach. Some of his comments strike me as lazy.

That's it, sometimes I just zone out when he is talking on these shows, as all it becomes is him moaning about nothern hemisphere rugby. The thing is he has some good points to make, just does it in a way which can be really annoying.

On multiple occasions he has come out with stuff like "Lusten, mate....Oim not troyin to beluttle the six nations. But now-one dan here, in the southern hemisphere, cares about it mate. And if we don't start scorin' troys, then...mate, in the next World Cap it's gonna be the same situation"

Stuff like that is just....meh. I dunno, maybe people like hearing that kind of thing - for me I want to hear something more insightful than that.

LorMal

Fair enough - you have a point. However, I prefer a bit of honesty and straight talking to all the bland platitudes we get from most of the ex players.
For example, Against the Head on RTE - what a borefest. Or Thornley and his (not so) hidden agendas. (Not to mention his "COACHING TICKET" - ****e)

Pink Fairy

Elliot Daly looking quite likely to start against Ireland, not something I wanted to hear I must admit.

Rumour mill is saying McCloskey 12, Henshaw 13, VdF 7

Pudsy33

Please Please Please Be true