Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

Cronin The Destroyer

Just wondering how people feel Earls got on at centre at the weekend. Obvious knock-on aside, I thought he was solid, but wouldn't mind reading a more nuanced, expert opinion. Perhaps stupidly, I'm still somewhat worried about Payne's absence as I thought he was masterful in defence, and I feel defence will win this world cup. That said, no tries leaked on Sunday against France is a fine record.

Also, I'm not very familiar with Ruddock. What would people consider his strengths/weaknesses in comparison to POM?

Cheers.

Journeyman_1

Cronin The Destroyer wrote: »

Just wondering how people feel Earls got on at centre at the weekend. Obvious knock-on aside, I thought he was solid, but wouldn't mind reading a more nuanced, expert opinion. Perhaps stupidly, I'm still somewhat worried about Payne's absence as I thought he was masterful in defence, and I feel defence will win this world cup. That said, no tries leaked on Sunday against France is a fine record.

Also, I'm not very familiar with Ruddock. What would people consider his strengths/weaknesses in comparison to POM?

Cheers.

Ruddock is a beast, very strong in the tackle area and a strong carrier. Will put 100% into the performance.

EDIT: weaknesses are not as strong in the lineout as POM imo.

irishbucsfan

If Ruddock plays then they will play someone else to jump in the lineout. He can't jump at the front, he's too bulky. They'll put Heaslip, SOB or Henry there. SOB has done it before but he might be missing.

BoardsMember

I'm still worried about Earls defensively. He looked all at sea a few times on Sunday, just France were too poor to take advantage.

Cronin The Destroyer

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

Ruddock is a beast, very strong in the tackle area and a strong carrier. Will put 100% into the performance.

EDIT: weaknesses are not as strong in the lineout as POM imo.

Thanks. Sounds promising. I remember seeing him play for Ireland a while back and being impressed. How is he at rucks/stealing etc.?

irishbucsfan

Cronin The Destroyer wrote: »

Thanks. Sounds promising. I remember seeing him play for Ireland a while back and being impressed. How is he at rucks/stealing etc.?

He's known for being one of the strongest players on the Irish team. His nickname is "man child" because he was already among the strongest when he was a teenager.

He's not going to win many turnovers in defense, he's not that type of player, but when we have the ball he makes it very very difficult to win any from us. He's also an exceptionally good lineout lifter, which is important if your two 2nd rows are 20 stone behemoths.

.ak

Ruddock's biggest strength is his tackling. He's an absolute beast there. He also is a very effective cleaner.

Yeah_Right

molloyjh wrote: »

Gotta love Joes comment on the criticism Payne received recently....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QKCufecqXw

Yeah it's a good dig at people who haven't done their analysis and don't understand the game. Ouch!

The Pheasant2

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If Ruddock plays then they will play someone else to jump in the lineout. He can't jump at the front, he's too bulky. They'll put Heaslip, SOB or Henry there. SOB has done it before but he might be missing.

They might use Murphy at the front? He'd be at the lighter end of our pack and he's not bad in the air

Neil3030

So with SOB out, I suppose we'll go with:

Henderson
Henry
Heaslip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYmm5YQSv2I

subfreq

Superb back row and no backward steps with Dev and Ryan in the second row either.

salmocab

so two options Toner ryan henderson heaslip henry or toner henderson murphy heaslip henry either way id be happy. bench ruddock and either ryan or murphy I would say as henderson can cover the 2nd row

MJohnston

Don't want to seem like I'm backseat modding, but any reason we're not discussing backrow options in the buildup thread?

.ak

MJohnston wrote: »

Don't want to seem like I'm backseat modding, but any reason we're not discussing backrow options in the buildup thread?

No reason at all. Thread here people. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057507534&page=10

mfceiling

I suppose to put things into perspective we really have the spine of the team still in order. Best, Toner, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton (probably) and Rob Kearney are all going to step up from here. Add in Earls (probably), Bowe, Ross, Healy and Henry and we've players who've played in HC finals and 6N pressure games. No need to panic about sunday - we beaten the argies before and i'd say Schmidt won't have left any tiny detail to chance.

salmocab

It looks to me like Joe is waiting till monday to decide who to call up for Payne (assuming we win), probably no need now for an outside back so will wait till he sees how sunday goes injury wise.

marco_polo

salmocab wrote: »

It looks to me like Joe is waiting till monday to decide who to call up for Payne (assuming we win), probably no need now for an outside back so will wait till he sees how sunday goes injury wise.

Maked sense also as he can call up anyone instantly it could potentially cover any short term knocks to say a Scrum half or prop in the run up.

awec

Heard from my usual good source that Trimble will now be called up for Payne. The delay was because they were worried SOB might pick up a longer ban and in that case would have called up another forward instead.

Flipper22

awec wrote: »

Heard from my usual good source that Trimble will now be called up for Payne. The delay was because they were worried SOB might pick up a longer ban and in that case would have called up another forward instead.

Makes sense.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Cronin The Destroyer wrote: »

Just wondering how people feel Earls got on at centre at the weekend. Obvious knock-on aside, I thought he was solid, but wouldn't mind reading a more nuanced, expert opinion. Perhaps stupidly, I'm still somewhat worried about Payne's absence as I thought he was masterful in defence, and I feel defence will win this world cup. That said, no tries leaked on Sunday against France is a fine record.
Cheers.

I noticed more than one occasion on Sunday where Earls went for Bastareaud and couldn't even get his arms around him Once they were even standing still.

Don't think we'll have that problem with any of the Argentinian's.

aimee1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I noticed more than one occasion on Sunday where Earls went for Bastareaud and couldn't even get his arms around him Once they were even standing still.

Don't think we'll have that problem with any of the Argentinian's.

maradona maybe

padser

irishbucsfan wrote: »

"Yeah look I think there was a lot of feedback around Jared Payne, mainly because people, a few people who hadn't done their analysis, didn't understand enough about the game to understand what he brought to the game for us and I think the players really spoke about his value, about the value of his communication, his defensive decisiveness, his ability to carry the ball forward, the quality of his passing, his decision making. All those elements that you want in the middle of your backline. I think for the back three he was very much the conduit for the inside three and the backs and his experience across both Southern Hemisphere and Northern Hemisphere competitions allowed him to bring all of that together for us."

Pretty big middle finger to the Tv3 Analysts there!

In all my years following Ireland and leinster under Joe I've never seen him come out and say "I agree with recent media criticism of an individual one of my players"

I'd imagine that if a media outlet picked out exactly the same issues Joe highlighted to a player in a post match analysis Joe would still publically defend the player. And rightly so. But I don't think it necessarily means it's what he privately thinks.

Flipper22

padser wrote: »

In all my years following Ireland and leinster under Joe I've never seen him come out and say "I agree with recent media criticism of an individual one of my players"

I'd imagine that if a media outlet picked out exactly the same issues Joe highlighted to a player in a post match analysis Joe would still publically defend the player. And rightly so. But I don't think it necessarily means it's what he privately thinks.

Ah that's definitely what he privately thinks. He volunteered it himself rather than just coming out with platitudes. People regularly criticise different players, he obviously felt that that particular criticism was totally off the wall and it pissed him off enough to say something.

irishbucsfan

padser wrote: »

In all my years following Ireland and leinster under Joe I've never seen him come out and say "I agree with recent media criticism of an individual one of my players"

I'd imagine that if a media outlet picked out exactly the same issues Joe highlighted to a player in a post match analysis Joe would still publically defend the player. And rightly so. But I don't think it necessarily means it's what he privately thinks.

Yeah but he didn't say "I disagree" he said the people criticising Payne didn't understand the game. That's a big claim to make when you're talking about an ex-international head coach and ex-professional players. Entirely volunteered as well, seems like a prepared comment to me.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah but he didn't say "I disagree" he said the people criticising Payne didn't understand the game. That's a big claim to make when you're talking about an ex-international head coach and ex-professional players. Entirely volunteered as well, seems like a prepared comment to me.

Def prepared. The sting in the comment goes beyond what he'd normally say. There's no way it isn't prepared and genuine IMO.

bilston

gamma001 wrote: »

Hendo wasn't meant to come on at 5 on Sunday, he was destined for 6 according to Joe until the injury.

Really?

That's interesting. I hadn't heard that.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah but he didn't say "I disagree" he said the people criticising Payne didn't understand the game. That's a big claim to make when you're talking about an ex-international head coach and ex-professional players. Entirely volunteered as well, seems like a prepared comment to me.

Yeah, there is one thing defending your player when you are specifically asked about them or if they've just had a howler.

It's a different story entirely when you use an interview as a soap box to rubbish questions raised about a player (that isn't even part of the squad anymore).

I wouldn't have a shred of doubt that Joe's comments were very direct at a small handful of individuals.

My only concern is if we have a poor showing in this tournament the knives will be sharpened by those same quarters who obviously aren't overly contemplative in their criticism.

total former

Coach defends himself against criticism. Shocker. Is nothing taboo anymore?

irishbucsfan

total former wrote: »

Coach defends himself against criticism. Shocker. Is nothing taboo anymore?

Not quite what happened though, really. He's not defending himself here, he's going on the offensive.

rrpc

Deleted User wrote: »

My only concern is if we have a poor showing in this tournament the knives will be sharpened by those same quarters who obviously aren't overly contemplative in their criticism.

We've already equalled our best RWC showing ever. However, if we don't progress, I would suspect there will be nobody harder on Joe than he himself.

jacothelad

Cronin The Destroyer wrote: »

Just wondering how people feel Earls got on at centre at the weekend. Obvious knock-on aside, I thought he was solid, but wouldn't mind reading a more nuanced, expert opinion. Perhaps stupidly, I'm still somewhat worried about Payne's absence as I thought he was masterful in defence, and I feel defence will win this world cup. That said, no tries leaked on Sunday against France is a fine record.

Also, I'm not very familiar with Ruddock. What would people consider his strengths/weaknesses in comparison to POM?

Cheers.

Earls is a fantastic rugby player. He has an immense amount of skill, similar in some ways to Geordan Murphy. His skills on the wing are top notch, his skills in the centre below the Tier 1 internationals are more than adequate but at the very top level he doesn't look comfortable at times. He can get out of position and while he is no dwarf he is a shade on the lightweight side because of this. He can get bumped more easily that is usual. Also, while all pro players should be able to give and take passes with dexterity, his distribution skills in the centre are less honed than those for example of Cave or Payne. His speed and acceleration in the 13 channel make him a real threat though if he was playing with an off loader such as McCloskey or Cave at 12. He is lightning quick. Fine player but maybe not a 100% 13.

total former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Not quite what happened though, really. He's not defending himself here, he's going on the offensive.

Offence is the best form of defence.

jacothelad

aimee1 wrote: »

maradona maybe

Funny, I immediately thought of Serge Blanco, one of the great players of the recent past, now looks like the Goodyear Blimp.

jacothelad

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah but he didn't say "I disagree" he said the people criticising Payne didn't understand the game. That's a big claim to make when you're talking about an ex-international head coach and ex-professional players. Entirely volunteered as well, seems like a prepared comment to me.

Yes he could have simply said that others are entitled to their view but it wasn't his. Williams obviously has - maybe with some justification - a residual gripe about his time in Ulster so that might reflect on his views. There is no doubt in my mind that he had some great ideas while here but didn't have the squad to succeed. Woody talks bollocks a lot of the time.

MJohnston

jacothelad wrote: »

Woody talks bollocks a lot of the time.

The only thing there is he doesn't really tend to single out players for negative comments, unless they really stand out as deserving it, and that feels very different. I don't know whether Williams was given instructions to Dunphy/Hook it up a bit, but that felt like what he was doing with Payne.

MJohnston

MJohnston wrote: »

The only thing there is he doesn't really tend to single out players for negative comments, unless they really stand out as deserving it, and that feels very different. I don't know whether Williams was given instructions to Dunphy/Hook it up a bit, but that felt like what he was doing with Payne.

Singles out Heaslip often enough.

jacothelad

MJohnston wrote: »

The only thing there is he doesn't really tend to single out players for negative comments, unless they really stand out as deserving it, and that feels very different. I don't know whether Williams was given instructions to Dunphy/Hook it up a bit, but that felt like what he was doing with Payne.

It seemed more like a spoilt brat vendetta than analysis.

total former

Can anyone give me a straight answer as to why Williams is the villain in all this, when no one seems to mind that Peter Stringer came straight out and said he'd drop Payne and play Earls at 13?

irishbucsfan

total former wrote: »

Can anyone give me a straight answer as to why Williams is the villain in all this, when no one seems to mind that Peter Stringer came straight out and said he'd drop Payne and play Earls at 13?

Peter Stringer is also a villain, but I think people expected more from Williams.

A recently departed Pro touting his ex-teammate is something we've seen before and expect.

Even Woods is a Munster man and has a reputation for saying some weird things, it was completely unexpected from Williams.

.ak

total former wrote: »

Can anyone give me a straight answer as to why Williams is the villain in all this, when no one seems to mind that Peter Stringer came straight out and said he'd drop Payne and play Earls at 13?

Well one, stringer wasn't as scathing in his review, and two he's a scrum half so nobody is really listening to him anyway

Clearlier

total former wrote: »

Can anyone give me a straight answer as to why Williams is the villain in all this, when no one seems to mind that Peter Stringer came straight out and said he'd drop Payne and play Earls at 13?

FWIW - I thought Stringer was pretty stupid but I've never found anything that he has said to be that insightful so he sort of gets dismissed as irrelevant. Williams however did well for Leinster and has penned some articles which were relatively insightful.

As for the villain bit it's probably best to look at the numbers. I'm not 100% sure but I think that the comments that Williams made were on tv to 100s of thousands of viewers whereas Stringer said something in a newspaper or website with a fraction of the audience.

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Peter Stringer is also a villain, but I think people expected more from Williams.

A recently departed Pro touting his ex-teammate is something we've seen before and expect.

Even Woods is a Munster man and has a reputation for saying some weird things, it was completely unexpected from Williams.

Read: Shane Horgan every single time he's on TV.

awec

awec wrote: »

Read: Shane Horgan every single time he's on TV.

Horgan has been refreshingly critical of former team mates on plenty of occasions.

awec

Deleted User wrote: »

Horgan has been refreshingly critical of former team mates on plenty of occasions.

Horgan is one of the worst pundits about. He's the Leinster version of Frankie Sheahan, always promoting his former team mates for spots in the team. Should have been an agent instead.

total former

Clearlier wrote: »

FWIW - I thought Stringer was pretty stupid but I've never found anything that he has said to be that insightful so he sort of gets dismissed as irrelevant. Williams however did well for Leinster and has penned some articles which were relatively insightful.

As for the villain bit it's probably best to look at the numbers. I'm not 100% sure but I think that the comments that Williams made were on tv to 100s of thousands of viewers whereas Stringer said something in a newspaper or website with a fraction of the audience.

???

Stringer was sitting right beside Matt Williams in the TV3 studio?

awec

awec wrote: »

Horgan is one of the worst pundits about. He's the Leinster version of Frankie Sheahan, always promoting his former team mates for spots in the team. Should have been an agent instead.

He probably will end up being one to some degree, is specialising in sports law as far as I know.

Either way I don't get that from Horgan, found him to be even handed and on occasions over critical of former team mates in some attempt to compensate.

Can you provide an example of where he promotes a former team mate over someone else available out of interest?

As for his abilities as a pundit, his frantic verbal communication can sometimes be a bit off putting, but his insights (especially regarding Joe) have been very interesting and worth listening too.

MJohnston

I think most of us had already thrown our remotes through the TV screen by the time Stringer started speaking. Truth is, most of the time the third pundit ends up parroting the first two anyway.

Clearlier

total former wrote: »

???

Stringer was sitting right beside Matt Williams in the TV3 studio?

:eek: Glad I said that I'm not 100% sure then . I haven't got access to tv3 and was just going on what I read. I'd still expect better from Williams than Stringer though but perhaps the rest of Stringer's analysis has been better than that?

noway12345

Our midfield looked pretty good against France! Henshaw the stand out ofcourse. He should be outside centre. Far better in attack than Payne and just as solid in defence.

MJohnston

noway12345 wrote: »

Our midfield looked pretty good against France! Henshaw the stand out ofcourse. He should be outside centre. Far better in attack than Payne and just as solid in defence.

Payne is out of the squad, I don't think there's any point in comparing squad players to him anymore.