Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

davegrohl48

Joe Schmidt is on the Late Late Show tonight.
Interested to see what he will say.
I think boxers, athletes, GAA Players, soccer players would admit to really having to up their game and really taking stock of the serious shortfall.
In my view if we hear about:
- Missing players
- Few key decisions
- Argentina a really good side
Then I don't expect the very much internal based review to be harsh enough. Nucifora, Schmidt and the players themselves are conducting the review. Schmidt brought in Nucifora as Performance Director after working with him before, so I don't see how he is in anyways independent.
A guy like Dave Brailsford of British cycling would sit you down at the table and refuse to leave until you agree what "winning" would truly have involved .... and it wouldn't be about incidental stuff like knock ons, missed penalties (from 45m+), injuries (yer own fault for style of play and not developing depth, our own fault for allowing Ian Madigans Leinster 10 situation to continue).

Clegg

We may have seen the last of Tommy Bowe. He'll be 32 when returning from a serious knee injury and he was nowhere near as quick as he was five years ago. The best finisher I've seen play for Ireland. I'm hopeful that he may come back strong and in try scoring form, but that doesn't really seem likely.

irishbucsfan

Jack McGrath has captained a few sides before but it'd be a bit of a surprise if he was selected as Ireland captain.

You don't choose a captain, the captain emerges from within the playing group generally. It'd be hard to see past Heaslip really.

bilston

POM would have been my choice as captain. In his absence then it should go to Heaslip. As others have said Rory Best is better concentrating on the rest of his game and leading by example on the pitch. I can't think off too many others options. Out halves have enough on their plate so I wouldn't consider Sexton.

Ruddock might be a possibilty down the line if he gets into the team but then he will be in competition with POM when he returns.

Heaslip for now and then maybe 12 months switch to POM or Ruddock if he has the 6 shirt and has been in the team for at least a year.

BoardsMember

jm08 wrote: »

AWJ is the real captain of Wales. I think we saw from last week that there is a lack of leadership in that team. Best was the only one who stepped up. Heislip did his own job well enough, but he didn't inspire the rest to raise their level and that is what a good captain will do.

I thought he was one of the few to perform at a very high level, including Best.

He put in a massive hit early in the game after their first try. It led to a knock on in their 22. Assuming the logic of inspiring the team is based around things like that, then we should have pushed on, and murdered them in that scrum. Instead, we were murdered, and conceded a penalty.

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

AWJ is the real captain of Wales.

No, he's not actually.

jm08

Clearlier wrote: »

There's obviously a lot more to being a captain than on-field captaincy and I've already said that I don't really like the idea of Heaslip as captain but I disagree about Heaslip not stepping up against Argentina. He adapted his game in the first 20 to lead by example (one monster hit and strip in the Argentinian 22 was a gamechanger that we didn't take advantage of as well as a massive clearout at a ruck come to mind) as well as pulling the team together to talk to them after the tries. Ireland were lethargic, Heaslip wasn't and I thought that he was one of the key reasons that we gained a foothold in the game. What I didn't like about his captaincy was that he hadn't managed to get the team ready to play. Obviously it's not just his responsibility but we were missing an edge and as captain he had a role to ensure that the team had that edge coming onto the pitch.

I said Heaslip played well, but the rest of the players didn't take their lead from him and lift their game.

In one of the warm-up games (scotland maybe?), POC came on as a sub and you could see the rest of the players lift their game.

sydthebeat

jm08 wrote: »

I said Heaslip played well, but the rest of the players didn't take their lead from him and lift their game.

In one of the warm-up games (scotland maybe?), POC came on as a sub and you could see the rest of the players lift their game crowd go wild.

FYP there jm08

Clearlier

hogandrew wrote: »

Anyone who needs someone else to inspire them in a world cup quarter final shouldn't be there.

That's one of my pet hates. Just because the thought of playing in a world cup quarter final is enough to inspire posters like us doesn't mean that it's enough for everyone. You need to be at a peak of motivation to perform at your best and we weren't there against Argentina. Australia were at the wrong level against Scotland and should have paid for it. New Zealand would have been at the wrong level in that game that never happened had it been played. They were also at the wrong level when they followed up hammering us in the first test a couple of years ago by being let out of jail against us the following week. They were back at the right level (and we were at the wrong one) a further week later though when they won by 60 - 0.

captbarnacles

BoardsMember wrote: »

I thought he was one of the few to perform at a very high level, including Best.

He put in a massive hit early in the game after their first try. It led to a knock on in their 22. Assuming the logic of inspiring the team is based around things like that, then we should have pushed on, and murdered them in that scrum. Instead, we were murdered, and conceded a penalty.

Best and Heaslip were incredibly good. Don't think I've ever seem them play so well.

jm08

hogandrew wrote: »

A captains role is to go between referee and other players mainly. Anyone who needs someone else to inspire them in a world cup quarter final shouldn't be there. I think pom is too hot headed for captain and if he brought that under control he wouldn't be the same player.

What is needed in a captain is a clever player who is able to keep his emotion under control on the field, make decisions and organise. Who that is is impossible to know from the outside. Personally I think a scrum half is the best option for the position due to being a link between backs and forwards as well as often being next to the ref and in the perfect position to see everything.

Murray certainly looks calm and intelligent, he will be around for the next 4 years, I'd say he's as close to a definite starter for that period as we have and he's vastly experienced at this stage. That would be my shout but very hard to call

All the renowned captains (WJ McBride, Martin Johnson, Tana Umaga) are nothing like what you describe.

Murray is way too quiet and self contained to be captain.

WarZ

jm08 wrote: »

I said Heaslip played well, but the rest of the players didn't take their lead from him and lift their game.

In one of the warm-up games (scotland maybe?), POC came on as a sub and you could see the rest of the players lift their game.

:rolleyes:

When POC came off against France and the captaincy went to Heaslip the team improved. There ya go.

stephen_n

Joe.ie reporting Bowe out till next year and will probably miss the 6N with knee ligament damage.

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No, he's not actually.

The real leader then. Gatland likes Warburton because he doesn't like his captain to challenge him (a hangover from when Woody was his captain perhaps when he got him fired!)

jm08

WarZ wrote: »

:rolleyes:

When POC came off against France and the captaincy went to Heaslip the team improved. There ya go.

POC had done the prep work though getting them up for the game

endabob1

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What do we think a "good" Captain does well? They should be a strong impactful player who inspire through deed as a given. But what other aspects do people see as important?

- Communicating effectively with the referee to influence them as much as possible;
- Making good penalty use decisions;
- Knowing when to slow down the game;
- Communicating necessary on the fly tactical adjustments;

Do people agree / disagree with the above? What am I missing?

John Smit captained the springboks more than anyone else, won a world cup, 2 tri nations and a lions series and was widely acknowledged as one the great captains, even though he wasn't even the best hooker at his club/province. He ended up playing some games at tight head. He was picked for his leadership above his actual ability


Generally the perception was that he was calm under pressure, really good decision maker and knew how to deal with referees, I remember during the lions series in SA I think it was Rolland who said Smit knew exactly when to question and when to walk away.

Yeah_Right

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Joe Schmidt is on the Late Late Show tonight.
Interested to see what he will say.
I think boxers, athletes, GAA Players, soccer players would admit to really having to up their game and really taking stock of the serious shortfall.
In my view if we hear about:
- Missing players
- Few key decisions
- Argentina a really good side
Then I don't expect the very much internal based review to be harsh enough. Nucifora, Schmidt and the players themselves are conducting the review. Schmidt brought in Nucifora as Performance Director after working with him before, so I don't see how he is in anyways independent.
A guy like Dave Brailsford of British cycling would sit you down at the table and refuse to leave until you agree what "winning" would truly have involved .... and it wouldn't be about incidental stuff like knock ons, missed penalties (from 45m+), injuries (yer own fault for style of play and not developing depth, our own fault for allowing Ian Madigans Leinster 10 situation to continue).

To be honest, I think what Schmidt says on TV is irrelevant. He's not going to air dirty laundry for the public. The review will be internal and should stay internal. It should be detailed, frank and honest for all those involved but it should not be available to the public or media. Do we really want a situation like what happened with England after RWC 2011?

Eoin

BoardsMember wrote: »

I thought he was one of the few to perform at a very high level, including Best.

Ah, some people just seem entirely unable to appreciate the work he does.

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Joe Schmidt is on the Late Late Show tonight.
Interested to see what he will say.
I think boxers, athletes, GAA Players, soccer players would admit to really having to up their game and really taking stock of the serious shortfall.
In my view if we hear about:
- Missing players
- Few key decisions
- Argentina a really good side
Then I don't expect the very much internal based review to be harsh enough. Nucifora, Schmidt and the players themselves are conducting the review. Schmidt brought in Nucifora as Performance Director after working with him before, so I don't see how he is in anyways independent.
A guy like Dave Brailsford of British cycling would sit you down at the table and refuse to leave until you agree what "winning" would truly have involved .... and it wouldn't be about incidental stuff like knock ons, missed penalties (from 45m+), injuries (yer own fault for style of play and not developing depth, our own fault for allowing Ian Madigans Leinster 10 situation to continue).

I wouldn't draw too much of a link between what he might say during what will be an inane soft interview and what an internal review might conclude. It's like comparing a post match interview with what he says in the dressing room and reviews after a match. Edit: what he said ^

He also doesn't strike me as the type to try and whitewash things.

CatFromHue

stephen_n wrote: »

Joe.ie reporting Bowe out till next year and will probably miss the 6N with knee ligament damage.

It looked a bad one when it happened so not surprised.

Also it's just over 3 months til the 6N so not that far away really.

davegrohl48

Yeah_Right wrote: »

To be honest, I think what Schmidt says on TV is irrelevant. He's not going to air dirty laundry for the public. The review will be internal and should stay internal. It should be detailed, frank and honest for all those involved but it should not be available to the public or media. Do we really want a situation like what happened with England after RWC 2011?

Not to air dirty laundry, but I believe most other sportsmen and sports would admit live on tv we were well off the pace.
But I expect this won't be the case. You can admit that you were well off the pace without airing dirty laundry.
I don't believe it's the most independent of reviews either.
If we had got to a semi final fair enough. But we were so far off in fitness and general approach to the game most other sports would seek independent assessment. Like how will it go?
Fitness team? Our players are incredibly slow compared to the opposition. What should we change? ... well a new fitness team maybe, with experience in making players mobile.

hogandrew

jm08 wrote: »

All the renowned captains (WJ McBride, Martin Johnson, Tana Umaga) are nothing like what you describe.

Murray is way too quiet and self contained to be captain.

All the renowned captains? One who's retired 40 years? Who might as well have played a different sport due to the changes.

Umaga wouldn't make top 3 in New Zealand but by the time he did captain them was a very calm head as was Johnson. Certainly can't see how these are all renowned captains. 2 of them captained very few times.

It's hard to say a player is too quiet. Shane Jennings looked quiet but by all accounts was an amazing leader

Eoin

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Fitness team? Our players are incredibly slow compared to the opposition. What should we change? ... well a new fitness team maybe, with experience in making players mobile.

This is genuinely the first time I've read that fitness was an issue for us.

Heaslip not Heislip

hogandrew

Clearlier wrote: »

That's one of my pet hates. Just because the thought of playing in a world cup quarter final is enough to inspire posters like us doesn't mean that it's enough for everyone. You need to be at a peak of motivation to perform at your best and we weren't there against Argentina. Australia were at the wrong level against Scotland and should have paid for it. New Zealand would have been at the wrong level in that game that never happened had it been played. They were also at the wrong level when they followed up hammering us in the first test a couple of years ago by being let out of jail against us the following week. They were back at the right level (and we were at the wrong one) a further week later though when they won by 60 - 0.

I think that's more to do with mentality beforehand and some luck either way. If it was down to certain players motivating others it would mean a team was never flat when this player or players played

aimee1

BoardsMember wrote: »

I thought he was one of the few to perform at a very high level, including Best.

He put in a massive hit early in the game after their first try. It led to a knock on in their 22. Assuming the logic of inspiring the team is based around things like that, then we should have pushed on, and murdered them in that scrum. Instead, we were murdered, and conceded a penalty.

Heaslip has been one of our best and most consistent performers over the last 3-4 years but for some reason gets a lot of criticism. He will be very much missed when he is no longer there.

davegrohl48

Eoin wrote: »

This is genuinely the first time I've read that fitness was an issue for us.

Quite a few posters referenced it since the defeat.
You don't think fitness is an issue?
- Mike Ross
- Cian Healy
- Devon Toner
Three of our starting 15 that basically are immobile when compared to a team like Argentina.
No elite pace in the back three.
The pace of the pack quite average in general.
The players in several interviews referencing being on hypertrophy regimes eating big to maintain high bodyweights.
Very few of the players lean, you can actually just see it with simple visual inspection.
Very few forwards able to step or able to maintain a high tempo pace to get to rucks first around the pitch.

Dravokivich

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Fitness team? Our players are incredibly slow compared to the opposition. What should we change? ... well a new fitness team maybe, with experience in making players mobile.

I don't think our apparent issues were with fitness. You'll be slow compared to anyone that was able to put a bit of distance in before you reacted. The issue with reaction time there will be Rugby from a logical and tactical point of view. The Argentinians were fast not just in their actions, but in thinking about what they were going to do and how. You don't out fitness that.

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Quite a few posters referenced it since the defeat.
You don't think fitness is an issue?
- Mike Ross
- Cian Healy
- Devon Toner

It's a bit unfair to expect props to be overly mobile and pacey. Picking out Dev, who are you comparing him to? It's not easy to be fast when you've got trees for legs.

Eoin

Is not having pace-y players the same thing as not being fit though?

Do you think Toner looked off the pace by his own standards, or that he's never been fit enough?

Healy was just a gamble that didn't pay off. I don't think that can be considered an issue with the fitness regime.

davegrohl48

Dravokivich wrote: »

I don't think our apparent issues were with fitness. You'll be slow compared to anyone that was able to put a bit of distance in before you reacted. The issue with reaction time there will be Rugby from a logical and tactical point of view. The Argentinians were fast not just in their actions, but in thinking about what they were going to do and how. You don't out fitness that.

It's a bit unfair to expect props to be overly mobile and pacey. Picking out Dev, who are you comparing him to? It's not easy to be fast when you've got trees for legs.

I thought the Argentinians were better selected and conditioned. One of the locks in their squad is only 1.93 metres and fast.
New Zealand have the tall Retallick and Whitlock but they are suprisingly mobile.
Toner was a selection issue in that I'd never expect a guy 6'10" to be mobile
Mike Ross shouldn't be near the team as is completely immobile, again selection issue. Cian Healy is a fitness issue. Four years ago he was lighter and a flyer against Toulon with his famous run where he looked almost like a back, something he did very regular in his first few years. He has piled on muscle since then and his athleticism has gone to the floor. Injuries wouldn't have helped but even pre-injury he didn't have the same pace anymore.
Owen Franks is mobile for a prop.
We have guys who don't have sufficient fitness for their position.
Props - With no mobility. None.
Flankers with average pace.
Centres with average pace.
Wingers with well below average pace for the position.
The fastest player in the squad watching from the stands, very telling.
A lot of this was selection, but a lot of it is also the regime the backs and forwards have been on for some time now.
They are all in or around 5 kg above a weight that would make them much more mobile.
Why were the Argentinian ball carriers so successful compared to Heaslip and Henry? Because their backrow has pace and pace that is repeatable over 80 minutes.
Selection issues for sure as in, you can't get Mike Ross mobile or Devon Toner mobile.
But glaring issues for me with fitness where the players are not anywhere near able to maintain a high tempo game for 80 mins. They were completely out of it fitness wise in the last 20 mins.

jacothelad

QuinDixie wrote: »

i hope some day stander gets to represent his country, but he simply is not good enough at the moment. He may have to return home to get his chance anyway.

phog wrote: »

He like Strauss and Payne can play international rugby without representing their country.

phog wrote: »

I'm confused at to why he addressed that question to me.

Sorry phog, it was in relationship to the above. genuinely interested as to why people feel the above sentiments are important to someone playing for the 'Irish' rugby team. Perhaps if they were to think for a second about the 'Irish' bit and mull over what it might mean they might post differently.

jm08 wrote: »

Perhaps a better way of putting it would to be eligible for Irish citizenship by being born on the island of Ireland. There is no such thing as citizenship of Northern Ireland.

Presumably Payne could apply for British citizenship (or perhaps he is already a British citizen through heritage from other parts of UK).

" There is no such thing as citizenship of Northern Ireland."
There isn't? Gosh! I had no idea I was stateless....:D
So you are now saying that to play for Ireland you
a) need citizenship of Ireland and
b) need to be born on the island. So players like ROG and Heaslip for starters would be excluded and any player born in N.I. who was British would also be excluded. Still, if that's how you feel......

phog

jacothelad wrote: »

Sorry phog, it was in relationship to the above. genuinely interested as to why people feel the above sentiments are important to someone playing for the 'Irish' rugby team. Perhaps if they were to think for a second about the 'Irish' bit and mull over what it might mean they might post differently.


" There is no such thing as citizenship of Northern Ireland."
There isn't? Gosh! I had no idea I was stateless....:D
So you are now saying that to play for Ireland you
a) need citizenship of Ireland and
b) need to be born on the island. So players like ROG and Heaslip for starters would be excluded and any player born in N.I. who was British would also be excluded. Still, if that's how you feel......

I've no issue with where a player was born, their nationality, their colour nor their creed. I've absolutely no idea why you think I have. Once under the rules of World Rugby a player is allowed play for Ireland, in my view, he's an Irish player and I want them to win.

WarZ

Talking of pace is on the money. Our players are so far behind their SH counterparts when it comes to pace and feet work.

Both our starting props were disgracefully slow. Cian Healy has bulked up far too much and he cannot get around the pitch at all, his handling has also gone to **** as a result. Ever see a bodybuilder doing anything fitness related? They will be gasping for air within minutes of starting because their body can't produce enough oxegen to supply the muscles. Healy is disproportionately big and there's no way that this is because of the Irish strength and conditioning coach, I personally believe he was doing his own gym work on the side during his lay off...probably for vanity reasons. Whatever the reason its affected his game massively so much so that he is half the player he was.

Mike Ross is completely unable to move around the pitch. He is a passenger for entire games because he struggles so badly. I look at other countries tightheads and they can all hit rucks and carry. Mike Ross struggles to even tackle he is so unfit and slow.

Rory Best, another slow, slow player. Hookers for other countries tend to be pocket rockets. Maybe Cronin deserves a shot here for that very reason but then again his throwing can be disastrous and his scrums are best left unspoken. Strauss might be the balance in between Best and Cronin to be perfectly honest.

In the second row we have Devin Toner, the guy is probably the slowest lock in world rugby. Don't expect him to run around like a Rettalick.
Henderson is speedy enough.

Peter O'Mahony is once again very slow and just isn't built for running, like Sean O'Brien he likes to try bulldoze over opposition whereas someone like Picamoles and McCaw can have deft feet and pace to burn. In fairness to Heaslip he has the ability to use his feet but these days he seems to just want to truck it up and tidy up bad ball.

Our backline however is disastrous for pace. Henshaw is fine for a 12, most 12s aren't expected to be speedsters but at 13 we are really stuck. Payne doesn't have pace and Earls is not smart enough to exploit the gaps in front of him in the more complicated outside centre position (at wing hes fine)

Our full back is as slow as a tank, as are our wings by SH standards. Something needs to be done here. Zebo, Rob Kearney, Dave Kearney, Tommy Bowe, Andrew Trimble are all slow compared to the best back 3s in the world.

QuinDixie

I would rather lose with our own, than win with someone else's.
If you played no part in developing their rugby culture, you should not be allowed to play them.
Strauss, Payne, Stander were not made the players they are by playing for the provinces, those plaudits go to their home club, family, friends, schools.

Lets stop it, for the love of the game.

molloyjh

WarZ wrote: »

Talking of pace is on the money. Our players are so far behind their SH counterparts when it comes to pace and feet work.

Both our starting props were disgracefully slow. Cian Healy has bulked up far too much and he cannot get around the pitch at all, his handling has also gone to **** as a result. Ever see a bodybuilder doing anything fitness related? They will be gasping for air within minutes of starting because their body can't produce enough oxegen to supply the muscles. Healy is disproportionately big and there's no way that this is because of the Irish strength and conditioning coach, I personally believe he was doing his own gym work on the side during his lay off...probably for vanity reasons. Whatever the reason its affected his game massively so much so that he is half the player he was.

Mike Ross is completely unable to move around the pitch. He is a passenger for entire games because he struggles so badly. I look at other countries tightheads and they can all hit rucks and carry. Mike Ross struggles to even tackle he is so unfit and slow.

Rory Best, another slow, slow player. Hookers for other countries tend to be pocket rockets. Maybe Cronin deserves a shot here for that very reason but then again his throwing can be disastrous and his scrums are best left unspoken. Strauss might be the balance in between Best and Cronin to be perfectly honest.

In the second row we have Devin Toner, the guy is probably the slowest lock in world rugby. Don't expect him to run around like a Rettalick.
Henderson is speedy enough.

Peter O'Mahony is once again very slow and just isn't built for running, like Sean O'Brien he likes to try bulldoze over opposition whereas someone like Picamoles and McCaw can have deft feet and pace to burn. In fairness to Heaslip he has the ability to use his feet but these days he seems to just want to truck it up and tidy up bad ball.

Our backline however is disastrous for pace. Henshaw is fine for a 12, most 12s aren't expected to be speedsters but at 13 we are really stuck. Payne doesn't have pace and Earls is not smart enough to exploit the gaps in front of him in the more complicated outside centre position (at wing hes fine)

Our full back is as slow as a tank, as are our wings by SH standards. Something needs to be done here. Zebo, Rob Kearney, Dave Kearney, Tommy Bowe, Andrew Trimble are all slow compared to the best back 3s in the world.

Jesus Christ but these posts are painful reading. Everything is awful. It's terrible. They're crap. They're slow. They're really slow. They're really, really, really slow. They just can't play rugby well because they are so slow. It's all just really terrible and crap. Oh the horror. The horror!

One feckin' loss and you're losing your mind with negativity and pessimism. They weren't too slow to beat every team they've ever faced at least once (bar NZ, where they were so slow they only lost in the 82nd minute).

This unending bottomless pit of depression and pessimism is exactly the kind of massive overreaction that has plagued this site for the last few days. Can we please get the f*** over it!?

WarZ

molloyjh wrote: »

Jesus Christ but these posts are painful reading. Everything is awful. It's terrible. They're crap. They're slow. They're really slow. They're really, really, really slow. They just can't play rugby well because they are so slow. It's all just really terrible and crap. Oh the horror. The horror!

One feckin' loss and you're losing your mind with negativity and pessimism. They weren't too slow to beat every team they've ever faced at least once (bar NZ, where they were so slow they only lost in the 82nd minute).

This unending bottomless pit of depression and pessimism is exactly the kind of massive overreaction that has plagued this site for the last few days. Can we please get the f*** over it!?

I said Henderson, Strauss and Henshaw were fine for their respective positions. Heaslip too has shown he has the potential.

The only teams we beat are terrible teams in the home nations (and we lose regularly to the one decent team Wales) and SH teams that are away on tour and experimenting.

We will never beat the best teams when it matters with the level of skills and speed of our current squad.

And how can you not overreact to being dumped out of a world cup QF by 20pts by a country with half the playing population of ours and with a relatively young, new team.

It's about time someone brings our players back down to earth. Sorry Cian Healy, Jamie Heaslip, Peter O'Mahony Connor Murray, Keith Earls, Rob Kearney, Tommy Bowe - You are not world class anymore or in some cases never were to begin with.

We should be concentrating on building the team around the likes of Sean O'Brien, Iain Henderson and Robbie Henshaw. Then we need to identify talent quickly and get them involved. McCloskey, Ringrose, Heenan, Furlong these guys all have the potential to be world class. Hopefully we can build a team in a year or two...

1.
2.Strauss
3.Furlong
4.Henderson
5.
6.O'Brien
7.Heenan
8.
9.
10.Sexton
11.
12.Henshaw/McCloskey
13.Ringrose
14.
15.

blackdog1

God there is a lot of people on here that never played rugby at any decent standard and it's telling with the stuff being posted. We lost because we missed 1 on 1 tackles and our midfield never rushed up and cut out space. We didn't covert opportunities early on Henderson had bowe outside him on a 2 on 1 after 2 mins and didn't give the ball. We lost Payne so that ment we had no passing game and our defense was light in the centres. We never put the ball into touch when Argentina had a poor lineout and our back row was too passive carrying and in defense. We lost because we were passive and we played 3 hard games in 3 weeks. We would have been better off playing our 2nds against France the week before

blackdog1

This is what our next world cup team could look like. Big mobile pack with quick backs that can pass.

1.McGrath
2.Strauss
3.Furlong
4.Henderson
5.ryan
6.Ruddock
7.obrien
8.stander
9.Murray
10.Sexton
11.fitz
12 olding
13.aki
14.gilroy
15.henshaw

BoardsMember

molloyjh wrote: »

Jesus Christ but these posts are painful reading. Everything is awful. It's terrible. They're crap. They're slow. They're really slow. They're really, really, really slow. They just can't play rugby well because they are so slow. It's all just really terrible and crap. Oh the horror. The horror!

One feckin' loss and you're losing your mind with negativity and pessimism. They weren't too slow to beat every team they've ever faced at least once (bar NZ, where they were so slow they only lost in the 82nd minute).

This unending bottomless pit of depression and pessimism is exactly the kind of massive overreaction that has plagued this site for the last few days. Can we please get the f*** over it!?

I find the ignore functionality quite useful at times, unfortunately it does not ignore when you quote, so you wouldn't be a brick and stop quoting him, would you? :-)

davegrohl48

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Not to air dirty laundry, but I believe most other sportsmen and sports would admit live on tv we were well off the pace.
But I expect this won't be the case. You can admit that you were well off the pace without airing dirty laundry.
I don't believe it's the most independent of reviews either.
If we had got to a semi final fair enough. But we were so far off in fitness and general approach to the game most other sports would seek independent assessment. Like how will it go?
Fitness team? Our players are incredibly slow compared to the opposition. What should we change? ... well a new fitness team maybe, with experience in making players mobile.

How's your knee holding up? It seems to be jerking all over the place

molloyjh

WarZ wrote: »

I said Henderson, Strauss and Henshaw were fine for their respective positions. Heaslip too has shown he has the potential.

The only teams we beat are terrible teams in the home nations (and we lose regularly to the one decent team Wales) and SH teams that are away on tour and experimenting.

We will never beat the best teams when it matters with the level of skills and speed of our current squad.

And how can you not overreact to being dumped out of a world cup QF by 20pts by a country with half the playing population of ours and with a relatively young, new team.

It's about time someone brings our players back down to earth. Sorry Cian Healy, Jamie Heaslip, Peter O'Mahony Connor Murray, Keith Earls, Rob Kearney, Tommy Bowe - You are not world class anymore or in some cases never were to begin with.

We should be concentrating on building the team around the likes of Sean O'Brien, Iain Henderson and Robbie Henshaw. Then we need to identify talent quickly and get them involved. McCloskey, Ringrose, Heenan, Furlong these guys all have the potential to be world class. Hopefully we can build a team in a year or two...

1.
2.Strauss
3.Furlong
4.Henderson
5.
6.O'Brien
7.Heenan
8.
9.
10.Sexton
11.
12.Henshaw/McCloskey
13.Ringrose
14.
15.

I'll tell you what so, why don't you head off to IRFU head office and tell them and Joe how it's done. I'm sure you'd have no problem convincing them of your views and transforming Irish rugby into a truly awe inspiring outfit. It's not like they know what they're at anyway. Sure any game they've ever won can be discounted because the opponents were obviously so bad that it could never have gone any other way. And the fact that Joe has won at least 1 trophy every season since getting to these shores is obviously irrelevant so his views can be discarded. Sure it'll go from awful, terrible, slow, hum drum mediocrity to amazing, fast paced wizardry in no time.

aimee1

WarZ wrote: »

I said Henderson, Strauss and Henshaw were fine for their respective positions. Heaslip too has shown he has the potential.

The only teams we beat are terrible teams in the home nations (and we lose regularly to the one decent team Wales) and SH teams that are away on tour and experimenting.

We will never beat the best teams when it matters with the level of skills and speed of our current squad.

And how can you not overreact to being dumped out of a world cup QF by 20pts by a country with half the playing population of ours and with a relatively young, new team.

It's about time someone brings our players back down to earth. Sorry Cian Healy, Jamie Heaslip, Peter O'Mahony Connor Murray, Keith Earls, Rob Kearney, Tommy Bowe - You are not world class anymore or in some cases never were to begin with.

We should be concentrating on building the team around the likes of Sean O'Brien, Iain Henderson and Robbie Henshaw. Then we need to identify talent quickly and get them involved. McCloskey, Ringrose, Heenan, Furlong these guys all have the potential to be world class. Hopefully we can build a team in a year or two...

1.
2.Strauss
3.Furlong
4.Henderson
5.
6.O'Brien
7.Heenan
8.
9.
10.Sexton
11.
12.Henshaw/McCloskey
13.Ringrose
14.
15.

what is the problem with heaslip for example?

3 x HEC winner
3 x 6n winner [including 1 slam]
2 x lions tours

but he isnt good enough? He has been our most consistently good performer over the last 2-3 years.


Healy has missed over 1 year with injury and is not the player he was. I am hoping Leinster get him back in shape and form. POM has been very good in the last 2 years.

Murray is by some margin our best 9

R Kearney has his faults but the criticism of him is ridiculous.

Earls, IMO has been played out of position which has hindered him.

One bad performance, for 15-20 minutes and all of a sudden we have a team of either not good enough, never will be or past it. NZ went 24 years without winning the RWC. The best team on the planet, for ever and ever and they have won 2 out of 7 to date.

WarZ

blackdog1 wrote: »

God there is a lot of people on here that never played rugby at any decent standard and it's telling with the stuff being posted. We lost because we missed 1 on 1 tackles and our midfield never rushed up and cut out space. We didn't covert opportunities early on Henderson had bowe outside him on a 2 on 1 after 2 mins and didn't give the ball. We lost Payne so that ment we had no passing game and our defense was light in the centres. We never put the ball into touch when Argentina had a poor lineout and our back row was too passive carrying and in defense. We lost because we were passive and we played 3 hard games in 3 weeks. We would have been better off playing our 2nds against France the week before

I have a runners up schools medal, U20s club title and played J2 for years after so pull the other one.

You posted that directly after my post so I assume you are referring to me. I don't think the charter allows the sort of comments you made in your opening sentence.

captbarnacles

This is heresy to the general view but here you go, after watching the match a couple of times it was not as bad as people are making out and the tactics are by no means defunct we just executed them poorly.

Even missing 5 such important players we still could have won the game. Argentina maximised their attacks in our half coming away with points nearly every time but important to note they got the bounce of the ball for the post, 2nd try etc and we didn't. Aside from the passive defence we made some very sloppy errors at crucial times - Murray's knock on and Madigans kick out on the full spring to mind.

Two key moments in the match for me where when we had penalty advantage after about 30 mins played and made 15m so Garces calls advantage over somehow. I don't know is the Captain who should have called for the penalty. We would've had an attacking lineout near their line and huge pressure on them. Other one was when they turned us over when we were attacking in their 22 and a minute later they had a penalty in our half.

I think people who expect us to completely change the way we play on foot of this one match will very disappointed.

Yeah_Right

I see there is still a bit of hysteria going on here after losing one knock out match. People seriously need to chill out and get some perspective. Lessons need to be learnt but there is no need to fire the coaches and/or half the team.

One thing I do agree on is that the Irish team lacks pace. There's not a lot that can be done about that so game plans have to reflect that.

Mike Ross's time is probably up. There's enough young talent at TH coming through so it's time to start playing them.

No issues at hooker. Same for LH. I'm a big Healy fan but he is out of form. He is a world class player though and I firmly believe that he will be back.

Your second row and back row are fine. Lots of talent ability and pace there. Heaslip may have lost a yard or 2 but what his experience is too valuable to leave out of the squad.

Back up HBs are needed. And the back up OHs need game time. There's enough midfield talent around. A combination of 4 players needs to be settled on so that they are interchangeable.

The back 3 probably needs an over haul. Pace should be a priority. Everything else can be taught and drilled into them. RK is on the downward slide but I wouldn't eject him just yet. His replacement needs to be groomed though.

stephen_n

CatFromHue wrote: »

It looked a bad one when it happened so not surprised.

Also it's just over 3 months til the 6N so not that far away really.

True, I forgot how close it is to the start of the 6N. Looked bad at the time alright, must be a lot of swelling because seemingly they need to scan it again, to fully asses the damage.

mfceiling

Didn't realise that we had so many great coaches on here...truly in great company!!

QuinDixie

looking forward to Schmidt interview later.
If I was allowed a question it would be
Were you embarrassed by the Trust in Schmidt tagline and the POC talk before the Quarter final. It was liked he had passed away.

Uriel.

QuinDixie wrote: »

looking forward to Schmidt interview later.
If I was allowed a question it would be
Were you embarrassed by the Trust in Schmidt tagline and the POC talk before the Quarter final. It was liked he had passed away.

Thankfully you're not allowed a question

QuinDixie

Uriel. wrote: »

Thankfully you're not allowed a question

can i ask you instead.
did you find the POC talk a little bizarre.

Yeah_Right

QuinDixie wrote: »

can i ask you instead.
did you find the POC talk a little bizarre.

Can I ask you your pick for greatest player ever in any sport?