Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

Annabella1

Both teams in the final have been very lucky with injuries.I would contend that neither would be there with five of their front line players missing(like Ireland)
I don't think we were too far off a semi final
Still think we are in pretty good shape for 6 N

stephen_n

Redgirl82 wrote: »

What about Felix Jones?

What about him? he doesn't play wing or centre.

Beery Eyed

Any idea when Stuart Olding is due back? Hopefully he comes back strong with Ulster & gets back in contention for a call up. He's an exceptionally talented player.

McCloskey has been outstanding so far. He's been the standout Irish player in the early Pro12 games, so you can't ignore that. Reid will also be in strong contention, since he has been involved in the squad before.

For me a McCloskey & Henshaw center partnership is extremely exciting & potentially dominant at international level given time.

Quint2010

Does CJ Stander have a serious shot at displacing Heaslip? If so-Schmidt has a hard call to make around the captaincy.

awec

Probably not.

irishbucsfan

Don't think Stander will be replacing Heaslip, more likely he'll fill in for POM at 6 IMO.

Sangre

Whats the story with Luke Marhsall? Is he back playing fully now?

Synode

Henderson out for 6 weeks with a hand injury

captbarnacles

So who's in the running for the 13 jersey?

Personally I'd like to see Fitz partner Henshaw in the centre.

Pudsy33

captbarnacles wrote: »

So who's in the running for the 13 jersey?

Personally I'd like to see Fitz partner Henshaw in the centre.

Earls and Fitz I suppose. Henshaw possibly too. Personally I'd like to see McCloskey/Henshaw or Reid/Henshaw.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Whatever about the wing I wouldn't put Earls at centre again. McCloskey/Henshaw is the most exciting prospect.

Depends on where Fitzgerald is playing between now and then but with Bowe out he should be looking at a wing spot.

phog

Synode wrote: »

Henderson out for 6 weeks with a hand injury

What happened him?

Should be back for rounds 3&4 of the European cup

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

phog wrote: »

What happened him?

Should be back for rounds 3&4 of the European cup

Happened in the Argentina game apparently.

Redgirl82

I hope Ireland start to build towards 2019. So Joe decides now on centre partnership he would like for 2019 and sticks to that....hopefully injury etc does not intervene

So at the moment for centre it really is

McCloskey/Henshaw
Henshaw/Fitz
Henshaw/Earls
Henshaw/Ringrose

The future really is Henshaw/Ringrose but it would be a huge gamble to start the 6N with that centre partnership as Ringrose only played a few times for Leinster and on the wing....maybe a season too early for Ringrose

If it was me, I would bring Ringrose into squad to get used to it now but start with
McCloskey/Henshaw

Starting 15
Healy
Best
Ross
Toner
Ryan
Henderson
O'Brien
Heaslip
Murray
Sexton
Fitz
McCloskey
Henshaw
Earls
Kearney

Majority of those players could still be around 2019 apart from Ross but need to give Furlong/Moore more time off bench

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

^Way too early for Ringrose. Watched him the other night and although he looked fairly comfortable playing at that level he still looks quite slight. You'd wonder what will happen once the WC players come back. Will he get much more game time this season or will he be reduced to a few sub appearances here and there?

Pudsy33

Agreed, no way in hell Ringrose should be in the ireland squad. Wait until he plays centre for Leinster first, otherwise we are setting him up for a fall. Young centres who should be included are the Ulster boys and Noel Reid.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Ringrose might get a shot in the centre next season if Te'o heads back to Australia.

Redgirl82

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Agreed, no way in hell Ringrose should be in the ireland squad. Wait until he plays centre for Leinster first, otherwise we are setting him up for a fall. Young centres who should be included are the Ulster boys and Noel Reid.

I think I did say it was a season too early for Ringrose

I think I also mentioned to bring him into squad to get used to it. Didn't BOD say Henshaw was knocking around the Ireland squad for a long time but was not in the actual squad and was back playing with Connacht at weekend...

Something like that for Ringrose would be great, not like they are a million miles away as most training camps out the road from Leinster

Pudsy33

Totally agree with all that.

The Lost Sheep

Redgirl82 wrote: »

I think I did say it was a season too early for Ringrose

I think I also mentioned to bring him into squad to get used to it. Didn't BOD say Henshaw was knocking around the Ireland squad for a long time but was not in the actual squad and was back playing with Connacht at weekend...

Something like that for Ringrose would be great, not like they are a million miles away as most training camps out the road from Leinster

Its hard to say its a season too early for Ringrose. I think it'll be more than that.
Lets see how he goes with another few games under his belt especially now that the world cup players will be back in pro12 squads
Henshaw was playing pro12 straight out of age grade rugby and was doing so while still eligible for under 20s..... different to Ringrose....

bilston

Is Luke McGrath in contention for making the squad for the 6Ns?

How has Marmion been going at Connacht?

Paul Marshall has been playing well for Ulster, although I'm pretty sure his ship has sailed.

We need some back up for Murray. Reddan and Boss can't have long left now.

Zzippy

bilston wrote: »

Is Luke McGrath in contention for making the squad for the 6Ns?

How has Marmion been going at Connacht?

Paul Marshall has been playing well for Ulster, although I'm pretty sure his ship has sailed.

We need some back up for Murray. Reddan and Boss can't have long left now.

Mixed the good with the bad. Popped up for a couple of tries already, box kicking has been decent but on occasion has put us under pressure with poor passes. Also needs to dither less at the base and just get the ball out faster. Cooney is pushing him for the starting spot too, which is no bad thing to have a bit of competition.

irishbucsfan

If Luke McGrath gets ahead of Boss (or indeed Reddan) at Leinster then I would say he'll be in the Xmas training camp and a strong candidate for the 6 Nations squad off the back of that.

Bazzo

bilston wrote: »

Is Luke McGrath in contention for making the squad for the 6Ns?

How has Marmion been going at Connacht?

Paul Marshall has been playing well for Ulster, although I'm pretty sure his ship has sailed.

We need some back up for Murray. Reddan and Boss can't have long left now.

Marmion has been doing pretty well. He hit a poor stretch of form towards the end of last season but he seems to be getting his groove back now.

I think his main problem is that he lacks in certain areas of the game that Joe clearly thinks are very important(box kicking).

You see him doing it a bit more these days though so it's definitely something he's been working on.

QuinDixie

.ak wrote: »

Schmidt has already developed a huge amount of depth over the past two years.

But he can only work with what he's got. People think more game time = world class. It's just not true. Sexton could give Madigan every game between now and the next World Cup and he still won't be the same player as Sexton.

The truth is guys like POC, Sexton and SOB are a rare breed in Ireland and we only come across them rarely. It's not like we haven't given guys opportunity to prove themselves to be on that level. The truth is we have some very good players, but very few of them are in the world class bracket. Our backup is much better then it was in years previously but not good enough to replace the entire core of the team.

i understand your point but have we really given guys opportunities.
Madigan is a fine player who cannot be blamed for the argentina loss, if u want to blame anyone blame 2,3,8,9, 14, 15. the experienced men who were very poor.
We have only one world class player, sexton so there are no excuses to not experiment

against wales you could play
kilcoyne cronin white
henderson toner
ruddock obrien odonnell
murray sexton
henshaw cave
earls zebo fitzgerald

you tell me why that above team is not good enough to beat wales.
of course it is, the guys 'dropped' would be flying it against england in the next one.
lets use fresh players as a tactic to win the grand slam.

sydthebeat

QuinDixie wrote: »

i understand your point but have we really given guys opportunities.
Madigan is a fine player who cannot be blamed for the argentina loss, if u want to blame anyone blame 2,3,8,9, 14, 15. the experienced men who were very poor.
.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Best and Heaslip were our 2 best players against Argentina bar none.. Fitz probably had the most influence in his plays, but wasnt featured frequently.

Clearlier

QuinDixie wrote: »

i understand your point but have we really given guys opportunities.
Madigan is a fine player who cannot be blamed for the argentina loss, if u want to blame anyone blame 2,3,8,9, 14, 15. the experienced men who were very poor.
We have only one world class player, sexton so there are no excuses to not experiment

against wales you could play
kilcoyne cronin white
henderson toner
ruddock obrien odonnell
murray sexton
henshaw cave
earls zebo fitzgerald

you tell me why that above team is not good enough to beat wales.
of course it is, the guys 'dropped' would be flying it against england in the next one.
lets use fresh players as a tactic to win the grand slam.

We'd get murdered. Comfortable 20 point win for Wales against that team. Lack of direction from 15, a relatively weak front row scrum, a backrow lacking a bit of savvy but most of all just not enough nous at the breakdown in that team.

New Zealand spent an amazing amount of time developing backup in every position after the 'trauma' of Umaga's injury in 2003 and we all know how that turned out.

You have summer tours and autumn tests to introduce new players into the squad and team. The 6N's and World Cup are about performing. Sometimes you get bad luck ala NZ in 2003 and other times you don't.

Using the 6 nations to experiment for the world cup would be a disastrous mistake.

irishbucsfan

sydthebeat wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Best and Heaslip were our 2 best players against Argentina bar none.. Fitz probably had the most influence in his plays, but wasnt featured frequently.

I can't believe anyone could criticise Best after that performance. He was incredible at times. It was like we had 3 or 4 of him in defense, there was periods when he was hitting 3 defensive rucks in a row.

Redgirl82

QuinDixie wrote: »

against wales you could play
kilcoyne cronin white
henderson toner
ruddock obrien odonnell
murray sexton
henshaw cave
earls zebo fitzgerald

Ok you have dropped the entire front row? Best was one of our best players in World Cup, especially the Argentina match.

McGrath/Healy are a must to start, Healy is our only other world class player but never looked fully fit so had poor WC by his standard, plus McGrath had a good World Cup. Both should still be around in 4 years

Henderson/Toner are too nice I think, need an edge so I would pick Ryan, he is 31 so should be still there in 4 years. Hopefully

Who is captain? O'Donnell at 8 means you have dropped Heaslip who looks like he will be captain going forward. If dropping Heaslip it would be Stander

Zebo is not a fullback

They would be killed. Wales would win easily and then there would be up roar and the players would have a huge hit in confidence.

thomond2006

Best is Ireland's closest player to Pocock IMO. Turnover machine.

Henderson is not nice.

Bazzo

Deleted User wrote: »

Henderson is not nice.

Pure softie. Sure look, he's so happy to see Gori here he picks him up and hugs him.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If Luke McGrath gets ahead of Boss (or indeed Reddan) at Leinster then I would say he'll be in the Xmas training camp and a strong candidate for the 6 Nations squad off the back of that.

As much as I've been defending him and his passing McGrath does need to improve that facet of his game before he appears in a 6 Nations squad. It hasn't been as bad as some would have us believe, and it hasn't been so bad as to demand he not be involved at Pro12 level or even off the bench in European games. But international level is another step up again.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I can't believe anyone could criticise Best after that performance. He was incredible at times. It was like we had 3 or 4 of him in defense, there was periods when he was hitting 3 defensive rucks in a row.

Not only that, but to suggest starting what is essentially a 3rd choice front row against probably the biggest competitor for the 6 Nations is pure madness. Especially when using the excuse of developing a squad while also making no changes to lock, a position we need to develop more than anywhere in the front row. There really have been some mental posts on here in the last while.

WarZ

Best, along with most of the Irish players are completely overrated. They were found out this World Cup. Nearly lost to Italy, beat the worst French team ever and then were trashed by Argentina.

They have one of the best coaches in world rugby, there are no excuses other than the fact that most of the players are not as good as the media and public make them out to be.

molloyjh

WarZ wrote: »

Best, along with most of the Irish players are completely overrated. They were found out this World Cup. Nearly lost to Italy, beat the worst French team ever and then were trashed by Argentina.

They have one of the best coaches in world rugby, there are no excuses other than the fact that most of the players are not as good as the media and public make them out to be.

Yeah we get it. It's all terrible, awful, woeful b*****ks. We may as well give up. Won't someone think of the children. The horror, the horror.

Give it a rest please.

salmocab

WarZ wrote: »

Best, along with most of the Irish players are completely overrated. They were found out this World Cup. Nearly lost to Italy, beat the worst French team ever and then were trashed by Argentina.

They have one of the best coaches in world rugby, there are no excuses other than the fact that most of the players are not as good as the media and public make them out to be.

Your right no excuses, however plenty of reasons, Argies had effectively an extra weeks recovery, we had a lot of big losses in personnel from just one match which is quite unusual, we got the game plan and preparation wrong and to top that all off the Argies were on fire and had done their homework. All those things aside I suspect it was always going to be the Argies day but there has been a shed load of hyperbole spouted around here about the match and the whole WC in general. If Madigans try had been allowed and Im not saying it should but then suddenly we are back in it early on and a different game would have unfolded.
We have 2 top LHs 3 very good Hookers and after Ross we have probably 3 or 4 decent TH options with a good possibility that a couple of the younger ones will really step up. We have now 3 options at second row maybe none are quite a POC but all good players, Lots of good back rows knocking about too. At half back we have 2 top quality players with a drop off to the replacements, Centres is the real problem for the future there are some good ones coming thru alright but we are faced with having Henshaw as the senior one in the partnership at a very young age, assuming that we will look long term at getting a partnership going, although Fitz might be a good option there but really he would need to play there for Leinster. Wings and full back is a bit odd we have options but not many that really demand inclusion, Earls is an excellent winger but got stuck behind Bowe DK and probably Zebo, RK at full back is solid without being spectacular we could probably do with a replacement coming through sooner rather than later.
I wouldn't be too quick to dump too many players from the squad on the back of what turns out to be just one defeat in 5 WC matches.

Pudsy33

WarZ wrote: »

Best, along with most of the Irish players are completely overrated. They were found out this World Cup. Nearly lost to Italy, beat the worst French team ever and then were trashed by Argentina.

They have one of the best coaches in world rugby, there are no excuses other than the fact that most of the players are not as good as the media and public make them out to be.

Best is the most under rather player on that team.

Stheno

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Best is the most under rather player on that team.

Was only one of two irish players pickedfor the lions next year in one of the UK papers today

captbarnacles

Stheno wrote: »

Was only one of two irish players pickedfor the lions next year in one of the UK papers today

I would not have guessed the other on WC form.

Stheno

captbarnacles wrote: »

I would not have guessed the other on WC form.

Me either, twas Healy wasn't it?

molloyjh

Stheno wrote: »

Was only one of two irish players pickedfor the lions next year in one of the UK papers today

But he's crap, and the only reason he's making that team is because everyone else is crap. Everyone north of the equator is crap. It's all crap. We may as well stuff anything rugby related into a big box and bury it in the ground because we're too slow and too crap to even be allowed touch the stuff. Because we're crap. And that single game proves it despite every other game that came before. Because they were all crap too. And the games in the future? Well they don't count either because the people we'll be playing are crap.

WarZ

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah we get it. It's all terrible, awful, woeful b*****ks. We may as well give up. Won't someone think of the children. The horror, the horror.

Give it a rest please.

I am not going to give up an opinion simply because you don't like it.

We have almost double the playing population of Argentina and yet they consistently outperform us in world cups. We have more players than Wales and yet they have a number of Grand Slams. New Zealand are in a different class to Ireland despite similar playing numbers.

A lot of it has to do with the public and media completely overhyping average players. Watch a team like Argentina or Japan play above their ability because they aren't walking around with delusional egos.

Maybe if our media treated a WC exit trashing to the Four Nations whipping boys like the SA, Australian or New Zealand media would then we wouldn't see this happen EVERY world cup.

The only players that are respected in the SH are Sean O'Brien, Paul O'Connell and Jonathan Sexton.

And we see pieces in the media SHOCKED at the thought of only two Irish players making a pundit's Lions squad. Well that's reality. Ireland are a poor, overrated team playing in a poor overrated competition where losing to the only decent side (Wales) does not mean you can't win.

WarZ

molloyjh wrote: »

But he's crap, and the only reason he's making that team is because everyone else is crap. Everyone north of the equator is crap. It's all crap. We may as well stuff anything rugby related into a big box and bury it in the ground because we're too slow and too crap to even be allowed touch the stuff. Because we're crap. And that single game proves it despite every other game that came before. Because they were all crap too. And the games in the future? Well they don't count either because the people we'll be playing are crap.

Or we can bury our head in the sands believing everything is dandy in Irish rugby because our teams can beat other club teams from Wales, Scotland and Italy and our national team can beat the mighty Italy, Scotland, England and France (but usually not Wales) every year.

Yep, world class team. We just got trashed by Argentina who themselves were trashed by Australia and you want us to believe that this Ireland team is a great team?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

WarZ wrote: »

Or we can bury our head in the sands believing everything is dandy in Irish rugby because our teams can beat other club teams from Wales, Scotland and Italy and our national team can beat the mighty Italy, Scotland, England and France (but usually not Wales) every year.

Yep, world class team. We just got trashed by Argentina who themselves were trashed by Australia and you want us to believe that this Ireland team is a great team?

Argentina beat South Africa this year though, who we also beat, so that must mean South Africa are Tier 3 now. We also beat Australia less than a year ago, so... I don't even know what that mean. Everyone is ****?

wp_rathead

WarZ wrote: »

Maybe if our media treated a WC exit trashing to the Four Nations whipping boys like the SA, Australian or New Zealand media would then we wouldn't see this happen EVERY world cup.

I can't agree with this
What purpose would a media circus achieve?

molloyjh

WarZ wrote: »

I am not going to give up an opinion simply because you don't like it.

I'm not asking you to give up your opinion. I'm asking you to stop coming on here with it and s**ting all over things for everyone. You've stated your opinion. We get it. You don't need to keep repeating it.

You started off a few weeks ago all positive and after 1 single loss (missing 5 of the most important guys in the team) you've gone polar opposite. There's almost nothing to be positive about in Irish rugby according to you. It's just total nonsense. And if you can't see how such an oppressively negative opinion is nonsense then fine. But we don't need to keep reading it thanks.

molloyjh

WarZ wrote: »

Or we can bury our head in the sands believing everything is dandy in Irish rugby because our teams can beat other club teams from Wales, Scotland and Italy and our national team can beat the mighty Italy, Scotland, England and France (but usually not Wales) every year.

Yep, world class team. We just got trashed by Argentina who themselves were trashed by Australia and you want us to believe that this Ireland team is a great team?

If you bothered to read the things being posted here you'd know that nobody thinks things are dandy. But hey who cares about reality eh.

Yeah_Right

WarZ wrote: »

The only players that are respected in the SH are Sean O'Brien, Paul O'Connell and Jonathan Sexton.

Wrong. Healy is highly rated. And McGrath caught some attention as well.

And Best is considered very good as well. Probably not good enough to start for any of the SH teams but he'd make the bench.

Quint2010

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Henshaw was playing pro12 straight out of age grade rugby and was doing so while still eligible for under 20s..... different to Ringrose....

In fairness if Henshaw was playing for Leinster do you think he would have still been playing for them while still eligible for the Under 20's?

Ceadog

They absolutely love Henderson too. But in fairness, who doesn't?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/world-cup/rugby-world-cup-new-zealand-coach-graham-henry-praises-ulster-ace-iain-henderson-for-ireland-performance-31547340.html