Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

thomond2006

Deleted User wrote: »

Jaysus this thread has gone off topic. I hope people don't use this as a barometer for the quality on the forum.

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titter

Off topic, what on earth do you mean?




John Hayes = Ligind

jacothelad

stephen_n wrote: »

But the same barometer can't be used for Caves performance against Romania?

Of course it could.

jacothelad

.ak wrote: »

Plenty.

Jeez the lengths you'll go to to shoot Fitz down never ceases to amaze me! :pac:

The lengths you'll go to to read things in to posts that aren't there amaze me! Have you thought of taking up fortune telling. I can see it now. Gypsy Rose Ak. Cross my palm with ..(insert appropriate Fitz love phrase.)

shootermacg

You know how I can spot a bad coach? Easy, he plays Earls in the centre! BOOM BOOM! Just joking, Joe is a great coach!

But seriously though, Earls is not and never has been a centre. I've seen front rows with better hands than him... no really, his handling is terrible.

.ak

jacothelad wrote: »

The lengths you'll go to to read things in to posts that aren't there amaze me! Have you thought of taking up fortune telling. I can see it now. Gypsy Rose Ak. Cross my palm with ..(insert appropriate Fitz love phrase.)

It is known that I know all.

Pink Fairy

.ak wrote: »

It is known that I know eff all.

stephen_n

Note to self, don't use every day turns of phrase on boards :rolleyes:

irishbucsfan

stephen_n wrote: »

Note to self, don't use every day turns of phrase on boards :rolleyes:

How could you possibly turn a phrase?!

jacothelad

stephen_n wrote: »

Note to self, don't use every day turns of phrase on boards :rolleyes:

Note to self.??????

irishbucsfan wrote: »

How could you possibly turn a phrase?!

!?esarhp a nrut ylbissop uoy dluoc woH

jacothelad

jacothelad wrote: »

Note to self.??????



!?esarhp a nrut ylbissop uoy dluoc woH

Phrase a turn possibly you could how ?

whatawaster

Could it be time for an invasion of Connacht players in the 6N squad?

Form isn't everything, but it has to count for something.

Could argue for Henshaw, O'Halloran, Healy, Ronaldson, Marmion from the backs alone.

gally74

whatawaster wrote: »

Could it be time for an invasion of Connacht players in the 6N squad?

Form isn't everything, but it has to count for something.

Could argue for Henshaw, O'Halloran, Healy, Ronaldson, Marmion from the backs alone.

Plus Buckley white muldowney masterson

Hagz

whatawaster wrote: »

Could it be time for an invasion of Connacht players in the 6N squad?

Form isn't everything, but it has to count for something.

Could argue for Henshaw, O'Halloran, Healy, Ronaldson, Marmion from the backs alone.

Henshaw is a given.
Healy could possibly get a look in but it seems unlikely with the strength and experience of the competition at wing.
Marmion should be involved on the basis of what we've seen so far, but that's more to do with how bad Reddan has been.
O'Halloran may well find himself in the squad due to the unfortunate retirement of Felix Jones. Although he would probably have to play consistently for Connacht at 15.
Ronaldson doesn't have a hope.

Pink Fairy

What about Buckley? He's got to be in with a shot?

Gopi

shootermacg wrote: »

You know how I can spot a bad coach? Easy, he plays Earls in the centre! BOOM BOOM! Just joking, Joe is a great coach!

But seriously though, Earls is not and never has been a centre. I've seen front rows with better hands than him... no really, his handling is terrible.

Well players who don't naturally fit the system for playing Schmidtball need to start being seriously considered given what was essentially a poor World Cup. I am think Hanrahan, Marmion and Gilroy.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Hagz wrote: »

O'Halloran may well find himself in the squad due to the unfortunate retirement of Felix Jones. Although he would probably have to play consistently for Connacht at 15.
Ronaldson doesn't have a hope.

O'Halloran is a winger, why would he have to play at 15? Our wings are in need of freshening up as any of the other back positions. O'Halloran and Gilroy could be worth looking at.

I'll eat my hat if we don't start the 6N with the same old faces though.

irishbucsfan

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

O'Halloran is a winger, why would he have to play at 15? Our wings are in need of freshening up as any of the other back positions. O'Halloran and Gilroy could be worth looking at.

I'll eat my hat if we don't start the 6N with the same old faces though.

O'Halloran plays at 15. He's played at 15 more than anyone else for Connacht this season and has played there at different levels for his whole career.

molloyjh

Can anyone explain to me what Hanrahan has actually done at senior level to warrant a call up to the Ireland squad, regardless of where he is playing?

Marmion should certainly be involved but even Gilroy I'd question. He can light up the Pro12 but the higher the level the less impact he's going to have. His defence and some of his decision making can be poor, but again because he looks good going fowards sometimes all that gets ignored.

If I were to pick a squad of players for training camp tomorrow I'd be looking at the below (excluding guys who look doubtful for the 6 Nations like POM).

LH: McGrath, Healy, Buckley, Kilcoyne (and I'd only have Healy there because we know how good he can be, his form at the moment though means he is down the pecking order).

Hooker: Best, Cronin, Delahunt, Tracy

TH: Ross, Moore, Furlong, White (we should be looking to phase Ross out now)

Lock: Toner, McCarthy, Ryan, Henderson (Maccer is having a great season at Leinster but again is down the pecking order)

Blindside: Ruddock, Stander (I don't want Stander there but we've issues in the back row with injuries and form)

Openside: SOB, Henry, VDF

No 8: Heaslip (guys like SOB and Stander can fill in here but we're lacking top quality 8s at the moment)

SH: Murray, Marmion, McGrath

OH: Sexton, Jackson, Madigan (Mads is only there due to his versatility and our lack of real options

IC: Henshaw, McCloskey

OC: Payne, Cave, Ringrose

Wing: Earls, Fitz, Trimble, Zebo, Healy, D Kearney

FB: R Kearney, Conway (Conway is only there because of a real lack of options. Maybe bring TOH in?)

mfceiling

Gareth Steenson had another good day for Exeter yesterday. Kicked all his points and was decent with ball in hand.
I sometimes wonder are we hampering our national side by only considering players from within the provinces.
If jackson and madigan were injured then our back up 10 is Keatley...then who? Ihumph?
We laugh at England who ignore Armitage but are there any players in any positions outside the provinces that would be worth looking at?

former total

We don't need a massive clear out of players. The squad have not become bad players en masse.

There will be some turnover with Ross and Reddan closing in on their pensions and POM and Bowe already ruled out. Otherwise, there will be no wholesale changes nor is there a need for any.

molloyjh

mfceiling wrote: »

Gareth Steenson had another good day for Exeter yesterday. Kicked all his points and was decent with ball in hand.
I sometimes wonder are we hampering our national side by only considering players from within the provinces.
If jackson and madigan were injured then our back up 10 is Keatley...then who? Ihumph?
We laugh at England who ignore Armitage but are there any players in any positions outside the provinces that would be worth looking at?

In fairness Armitage is a top quality player. We have always selected top quality Irish players who played abroad. Bowe and Sexton for example. There aren't any in that category now. There might be a few that are worth a look in training but that's it. My impression of Steenson (and I've seen very little of him) is that he is pretty solid without being all that great.

molloyjh

former total wrote: »

We don't need a massive clear out of players. The squad have not become bad players en masse.

There will be some turnover with Ross and Reddan closing in on their pensions and POM and Bowe already ruled out. Otherwise, there will be no wholesale changes nor is there a need for any.

I do think an injection of fresh blood in the training camps can be no harm. How much that translates into changes in the 6 Nations squad or any match day squads is a different matter entirely.

mfceiling

molloyjh wrote: »

In fairness Armitage is a top quality player. We have always selected top quality Irish players who played abroad. Bowe and Sexton for example. There aren't any in that category now. There might be a few that are worth a look in training but that's it. My impression of Steenson (and I've seen very little of him) is that he is pretty solid without being all that great.

Very true but I suppose Bowe and Sexton are "undroppable" regardless of where they are playing.
JJ going away because he can't get regular playing time is not good....He is quality and I'm not sure the options ahead of him were much better - he won't stand a chance now but he wasn't given a chance here either. Easy to say he never took his chances but equally easy to say he was never given a fair crack at it.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

irishbucsfan wrote: »

O'Halloran plays at 15. He's played at 15 more than anyone else for Connacht this season and has played there at different levels for his whole career.

Well he's listed as a winger on the Connacht website, and I've seen him play 14 a fair few times, although I have also seen him play 15. If he is in fact a 15 occasionally moonlighting as a wing then the comment I was replying to is irrelevant as he's obviously played enough at 15 to warrant a place in the squad.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

former total wrote: »

We don't need a massive clear out of players. The squad have not become bad players en masse.

There will be some turnover with Ross and Reddan closing in on their pensions and POM and Bowe already ruled out. Otherwise, there will be no wholesale changes nor is there a need for any.

I would argue that we do. The backs in particular during the World Cup were not impressive. Our 1st choice starting line up might be alright but it's aged and, as we saw when players started to get injured, there's no serious backup choices.

Murray and Sexton are probably the only 2 that get a free pass because 1- they're capable of brilliance on their day and 2- there is really no better options.

In my opinion everyone else in the backs could be shifted around or dropped. I think moving Henshaw back to 15 is something that could be looked at except it leaves us seriously lacking in the centre.

As I said already I wouldn't be one bit surprised if we show up for the 6 Nations with the same old faces playing out of positions but I'd be fairly annoyed if there weren't at the very least a bit of a shake up in the training squad.

connachta

mfceiling wrote: »

Gareth Steenson had another good day for Exeter yesterday. Kicked all his points and was decent with ball in hand.
I sometimes wonder are we hampering our national side by only considering players from within the provinces.
If jackson and madigan were injured then our back up 10 is Keatley...then who? Ihumph?
We laugh at England who ignore Armitage but are there any players in any positions outside the provinces that would be worth looking at?

If MacGinty leaves Connacht next season because he's NIQ, Steenson would be my choice to play the big European Cup.

molloyjh

mfceiling wrote: »

Very true but I suppose Bowe and Sexton are "undroppable" regardless of where they are playing.
JJ going away because he can't get regular playing time is not good....He is quality and I'm not sure the options ahead of him were much better - he won't stand a chance now but he wasn't given a chance here either. Easy to say he never took his chances but equally easy to say he was never given a fair crack at it.

I wouldn't disagree re Hanrahan, but you can't give him a call up to the Ireland side based on that. He has to earn it and so far he hasn't, regardless of who is to blame for that.

connachta

whatawaster wrote: »

Could it be time for an invasion of Connacht players in the 6N squad?

Form isn't everything, but it has to count for something.

Could argue for Henshaw, O'Halloran, Healy, Ronaldson, Marmion from the backs alone.

gally74 wrote: »

Plus Buckley white muldowney masterson

I hope there won't be an "invasion" for Connacht' sake, and I think it won't be, reasonnably.

Healy (or Poolman who are now IQ) are interesting but won't be selected IMO.
Masterson is still a bit young, Ronaldson isn't an international player.

I think the 3 of Muldowney (as I announced in 2012), Buckley and Marmion all have a good chance to make the 6 nations squad, in addition to Robbie of course

S12b

Connacht fans calling for the whole team to be called into the Ireland squad.....reminds me of this!! :D

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2013/12/10/connacht-fans-stay-grounded-following-victory-over-toulouse/

Bazzo

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Well he's listed as a winger on the Connacht website, and I've seen him play 14 a fair few times, although I have also seen him play 15. If he is in fact a 15 occasionally moonlighting as a wing then the comment I was replying to is irrelevant as he's obviously played enough at 15 to warrant a place in the squad.

He's Connacht's first choice full back so he's definitely a full back, but he's quite competent on the wing. He's been filling in on the wing recently because we've had a few injuries there and Pat seems to want to play Robbie at full back to avoid disrupting his preferred centre partnership for the season(Ronaldson/Aki). Leader is also more than capable at full back so that position is well covered.

Pink Fairy

connachta wrote: »

If MacGinty leaves Connacht next season because he's NIQ, Steenson would be my choice to play the big European Cup.

If MacGinty is an Irish citizen I wonder if he can be classed as NIQ?

connachta

S12b wrote: »

Connacht fans calling for the whole team to be called into the Ireland squad.....

I did exactly the contrary. I've said a ponderate colony of 3-4-5 Connacht players is the limit which would be good for both country and province:)

connachta

Pink Fairy wrote: »

If MacGinty is an Irish citizen I wonder if he can be classed as NIQ?

Was wondering the same, but I don't think he can switch his allegiance for USA to IRFU now...

Bazzo

Pink Fairy wrote: »

If MacGinty is an Irish citizen I wonder if he can be classed as NIQ?

I'd imagine so, just because he's an Irish citizen doesn't mean he's internationally qualified. The move home came a season too late for him I'm afraid.

bilston

Pink Fairy wrote: »

If MacGinty is an Irish citizen I wonder if he can be classed as NIQ?

If he can't play for Ireland then he is NIQ. Otherwise it would be a pretty obvious loophole for the provinces to exploit.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Pink Fairy wrote: »

If MacGinty is an Irish citizen I wonder if he can be classed as NIQ?

Yes. Its based on internationally eligibility rather than citizenship. No Irish employer is allowed to introduce rules that discriminate against european citizens on the basis of citizenship. We are allowed to discriminate based on eligibility for the Irish international team (as long as the provinces are owned by the owner of the Irish international team).

Pink Fairy

bilston wrote: »

If he can't play for Ireland then he is NIQ. Otherwise it would be a pretty obvious loophole for the provinces to exploit.

I can't think of too many other Irishmen who have chosen to play for a different international side?

The Rape of Lucretia

Bazzo wrote: »

I'd imagine so, just because he's an Irish citizen doesn't mean he's internationally qualified. The move home came a season too late for him I'm afraid.

Similar issue to Kiwi Nacewa.

mfceiling

molloyjh wrote: »

I wouldn't disagree re Hanrahan, but you can't give him a call up to the Ireland side based on that. He has to earn it and so far he hasn't, regardless of who is to blame for that.

Let's say for arguments sake that JJ puts together a great run of form over a month or 2. The unfortunate thing is that it is highly unlikely he will get a call up. Even if it means that mads and PJ were playing fairly average, they will still get the nod.
James Hart had a good run of form a while ago but we still stuck with an ageing Reddan and an even worse Issac Boss. It wouldn't have done any harm to throw him into a training squad. Even if it was just to say "you're in our thoughts and sure have a go here and see what we want from you"

Pink Fairy

mfceiling wrote: »

Let's say for arguments sake that JJ puts together a great run of form over a month or 2. The unfortunate thing is that it is highly unlikely he will get a call up. Even if it means that mads and PJ were playing fairly average, they will still get the nod.
James Hart had a good run of form a while ago but we still stuck with an ageing Reddan and an even worse Issac Boss. It wouldn't have done any harm to throw him into a training squad. Even if it was just to say "you're in our thoughts and sure have a go here and see what we want from you"

There'll be none of that forward looking thinking around here tyvm! Cheek of ya

Hagz

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

O'Halloran is a winger, why would he have to play at 15? Our wings are in need of freshening up as any of the other back positions. O'Halloran and Gilroy could be worth looking at.

I'll eat my hat if we don't start the 6N with the same old faces though.

O'Halloran has played predominantly as a full-back. Why would he have to play 15? Well O'Halloran is only ever going to get a call up to this years 6N squad as a full-back and not a wing. If he is to be brought into the squad as a full-back he'll need to be playing as a full-back....

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

If he is in fact a 15 occasionally moonlighting as a wing then the comment I was replying to is irrelevant as he's obviously played enough at 15 to warrant a place in the squad.

There's very little logic to this. So 'x' player is playing well in 'x' position so let's bring them in as a 'y' option because they have played a lot of rugby at 'y'. Just because a player may show good form in one current position doesn't mean that will translate into whatever other position they have played in previously.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Hagz wrote: »

O'Halloran has played predominantly as a full-back. Why would he have to play 15? Well O'Halloran is only ever going to get a call up to this years 6N squad as a full-back and not a wing. If he is to be brought into the squad as a full-back he'll need to be playing as a full-back....




There's very little logic to this. So 'x' player is playing well in 'x' position so let's bring them in as a 'y' option because they have played a lot of rugby at 'y'. Just because a player may show good form in one current position doesn't mean that will translate into whatever other position they have played in previously.

Nope. Go back and read the posts again.

You started it by saying if O'Halloran was going to get a call up he'd have to be playing regularly at 15 for Connacht.

I, mistakenly, thought he was a winger so didn't see why he'd need to be playing at 15 for Connacht to get a call up to the Irish team as a winger.

Someone else pointed out he's been playing at 15 regularly for Connacht this season and has played there at various levels throughout his career. Which negates your original post that he would need to be playing regularly at 15 to for Connacht to get an Ireland call up because by all accounts he is playing regularly at 15.

Bazzo

Hagz wrote: »

O'Halloran has played predominantly as a full-back. Why would he have to play 15? Well O'Halloran is only ever going to get a call up to this years 6N squad as a full-back and not a wing. If he is to be brought into the squad as a full-back he'll need to be playing as a full-back....




There's very little logic to this. So 'x' player is playing well in 'x' position so let's bring them in as a 'y' option because they have played a lot of rugby at 'y'. Just because a player may show good form in one current position doesn't mean that will translate into whatever other position they have played in previously.

This would be true if he had just had one good game on the wing. That's not the case though, his form at full back where he plays the vast majority of his rugby has been excellent both this season and last season.

Hagz

My point was he only has a chance at making it in the squad as a full-back. In which case he'd obviously need to be playing full-back. I never said he hasn't been playing full-back. I never said he hasn't been playing well at full-back. Just that if he's to be called up to the 6N squad as a full-back he's going to need to keep playing there consistently up to the 6N.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Hagz wrote: »

My point was he only has a chance at making it in the squad as a full-back. In which case he'd obviously need to be playing full-back. I never said he hasn't been playing full-back. I never said he hasn't been playing well at full-back. Just that if he's to be called up to the 6N squad as a full-back he's going to need to keep playing there consistently up to the 6N.

Well up until last night he has been more at 15 than 14 although if Lam plans on using Henshaw there instead now it kind of impacts on a few Irish positions come the 6 Nations. We shall see. FB is definitely an issue though. Kearney is a walking injury this season and nobody else is playing there regularly.

connachta

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Well up until last night he has been more at 15 than 14 although if Lam plans on using Henshaw there instead now it kind of impacts on a few Irish positions come the 6 Nations. We shall see. FB is definitely an issue though. Kearney is a walking injury this season and nobody else is playing there regularly.

Why not Henshaw as FB for Ireland too?

Triumvirate

mfceiling wrote: »

Let's say for arguments sake that JJ puts together a great run of form over a month or 2. The unfortunate thing is that it is highly unlikely he will get a call up."

It's equally unlikely that he'll actually put together such a run of form.

It's extremely telling that we're about to hit December and he has one start for Northampton under his belt (plus 4 sub appearances and 2 games where he was left on the bench). It appears Mallinder is extremely underwhelmed with him at this point.

I don't think we have to worry about any discussion on the merits of selecting foreign based players in the near future if Hanrahan is the focal point.

CatFromHue

I agree and I can't think of any foreign based player who wasn't picked for Ireland that deserved to be so I'm not sure how much of this rule of not picking foreign players actually exists.

b.gud

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Well up until last night he has been more at 15 than 14 although if Lam plans on using Henshaw there instead now it kind of impacts on a few Irish positions come the 6 Nations. We shall see. FB is definitely an issue though. Kearney is a walking injury this season and nobody else is playing there regularly.

I think once Poolman comes back we'll probably see Henshaw back in the centre.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

connachta wrote: »

Why not Henshaw as FB for Ireland too?

I wouldn't have a problem with that but then who do we play at 12/13?

I'd happily see McCloskey given a go at 12 but the best 13 in the Irish provinces at the moment is Ben Te'o, who is not an option. Saili and Aki look good for their provinces but, again, not options for us. (At least I don't think Aki is?) I seriously don't want to see Earls there again. Fitzgerald is very much a if there's no other option choice for me. I'd rather not see him there either. Ringrose is one for a year or so down the line.

Cave obviously doesn't rate highly with Schmidt. The WC was the perfect opportunity for us to play an out and out 13 in the 13 position and we didn't. Case closed, I think.

Assuming Payne is out injured for a while yet he may not even make the 6 Nations, so if we go with Henshaw at 15 we're looking at an entirely new 12/13 pairing with very few names springing to mind.