Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

b.gud wrote: »

I think once Poolman comes back we'll probably see Henshaw back in the centre.

I wonder if all the talk of Henshaw leaving for Leinster would affect team selection? I doubt Lam would cut off his own nose to spite his face but if he's looking at having to build a team without Henshaw in the near future maybe he'd want to have a real look at all his options in Henshaw's positions so he knows exactly where he stands come the end of the season.

Bazzo

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I wouldn't have a problem with that but then who do we play at 12/13?

I'd happily see McCloskey given a go at 12 but the best 13 in the Irish provinces at the moment is Ben Te'o, who is not an option. Saili and Aki look good for their provinces but, again, not options for us. (At least I don't think Aki is?) I seriously don't want to see Earls there again. Fitzgerald is very much a if there's no other option choice for me. I'd rather not see him there either. Ringrose is one for a year or so down the line.

Cave obviously doesn't rate highly with Schmidt. The WC was the perfect opportunity for us to play an out and out 13 in the 13 position and we didn't. Case closed, I think.

Assuming Payne is out injured for a while yet he may not even make the 6 Nations, so if we go with Henshaw at 15 we're looking at an entirely new 12/13 pairing with very few names springing to mind.

This is Aki's second year in Ireland so no not eligible yet.

I think Pat's reasoning for picking Henshaw at full back is a combination of two factors, namely that it gets all Connacht's best players on the field and also avoids disrupting the established centre partnership of Aki and Ronaldson that will be playing together there for the majority of the season(and possibly beyond).

wp_rathead

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I wonder if all the talk of Henshaw leaving for Leinster would affect team selection? I doubt Lam would cut off his own nose to spite his face but if he's looking at having to build a team without Henshaw in the near future maybe he'd want to have a real look at all his options in Henshaw's positions so he knows exactly where he stands come the end of the season.

you're not the first to come to wonder it
i don't buy that for one second personally

b.gud

wp_rathead wrote: »

you're not the first to come to wonder it
i don't buy that for one second personally

Same here I think k it's like Bazzo said get your best players on the field if everyone is still for when Poolman gets back I reckon we'll see Henshaw back at 13

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

wp_rathead wrote: »

you're not the first to come to wonder it
i don't buy that for one second personally

Yeah, I suppose the argument against it is Henshaw playing regularly at all. Playing him at 15 may allow a new centre pairing to be established but you've just moved your problem to a different position.

Bazzo

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Yeah, I suppose the argument against it is Henshaw playing regularly at all. Playing him at 15 may allow a new centre pairing to be established but you've just moved your problem to a different position.

Not really. Switching full backs in and out is much less disruptive than switching centres in and out.

swiwi_

former total wrote: »

We don't need a massive clear out of players. The squad have not become bad players en masse.

There will be some turnover with Ross and Reddan closing in on their pensions and POM and Bowe already ruled out. Otherwise, there will be no wholesale changes nor is there a need for any.

I would largely agree. However, these are some of the questions I feel Schmidt should consider

1) Is Ireland best served by Henshaw at 12 or at 13?

2) If it's 13, should Payne get a crack at 15? Is Rob Kearney undroppable at 15? Has he lost pace?

3) Should Luke Fitzgerald start? If so, what is his best position?

4) Do I go for safety first at wing, or strike power?

5) Is there room to look to the future (eg Ringrose)?

I think Schmidt needs to get his midfield and back 3 mix right, he got it wrong in the RWC.

If Earls starts at 13 and Dave Kearney on the wing again, then I will be asking if Schmidt has taken anything from the RWC on board.

I'm going to be very intrigued to see his squad.

I would very much like a Probables vs Possibles game.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

swiwi_ wrote: »

I would very much like a Probables vs Possibles game.

Leinster played Ulster on Friday night

connachta

I'd really like McCloskey 12 Ringrose 13 Henshaw 15. A bit premature, but still

bilston

Just for the craic here is an Uncapped Up and Coming XV...well almost...need a TH and two locks, I was going to throw Ally Muldowney in but he is 32.

15 Peter Nelson (Ulster) 23
14 Matt Healy (Connacht) 26
13 Gary Ringrose (Leinster) 20
12 Stuart McCloskey (Ulster) 23
11 Andrew Conway (Munster) 24
10 JJ Hanrahan (Northampton)
9 Luke McGrath (Leinster) 22
1 Denis Buckley (Connacht) 25
2 James Tracey (Leinster) 24
3
4 Ross Molony (Leinster) 21
5
6 Jack O'Donoghue (Munster) 21
7 Josh Van Der Flier (Leinster) 22
8 CJ Stander (Munster) 25

irishbucsfan

Well Ross Molony is an obvious choice for one of those lock positions imo. Quinn Roux for the other perhaps?

b.gud

bilston wrote: »

Just for the craic here is an Uncapped Up and Coming XV...well almost...need a TH and two locks, I was going to throw Ally Muldowney in but he is 32.

15 Peter Nelson (Ulster) 23
14 Matt Healy (Connacht) 26
13 Gary Ringrose (Leinster) 20
12 Stuart McCloskey (Ulster) 23
11 Andrew Conway (Munster) 24
10 JJ Hanrahan (Northampton)
9 Luke McGrath (Leinster) 22
1 Denis Buckley (Connacht) 25
2 James Tracey (Leinster) 24
3
4 Ross Molony (Leinster) 21
5
6 Jack O'Donoghue (Munster) 21
7 Josh Van Der Flier (Leinster) 22
8 CJ Stander (Munster) 25

Finlay Bealham at TH
Ultan Dillane at lock

vienne86

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well Ross Molony is an obvious choice for one of those lock positions imo. Quinn Roux for the other perhaps?

Good shout. The last time I saw Roux, I thought he was turning out very nicely.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

connachta wrote: »

I'd really like McCloskey 12 Ringrose 13 Henshaw 15. A bit premature, but still

Here's a question. If Henshaw was to decide he wants to go to Leinster at the end of the season would Leinster be stopped from even trying to resign Te'o? Unless they planned on using Henshaw only as a 15 which is unlikely given they have Kearney and Nacewa there. Not to mention Madigan, if he stays.

So... assuming they want him as a centre you're potentially looking at Ringrose or Reid being sidelined for a non Irish player (Te'o.)

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Here's a question. If Henshaw was to decide he wants to go to Leinster at the end of the season would Leinster be stopped from even trying to resign Te'o? Unless they planned on using Henshaw only as a 15 which is unlikely given they have Kearney and Nacewa there. Not to mention Madigan, if he stays.

So... assuming they want him as a centre you're potentially looking at Ringrose or Reid being sidelined for a non Irish player (Te'o.)

Every non Irish player at any province sidelines an Irish player, this is fairly obvious. Reid doesn't have a future playing high level rugby imo so really wouldn't have much problem with him missing out for Teo, who I really really hope stays on.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Harley Uptight Light wrote: »

Every non Irish player at any province sidelines an Irish player, this is fairly obvious. Reid doesn't have a future playing high level rugby imo so really wouldn't have much problem with him missing out for Teo, who I really really hope stays on.

I was thinking more of Ringrose, to be honest. If he's managed right this season and gets enough game time he could be a starter next season. If Henshaw were to come in and they kept Te'o you'd have to question how much game time Ringrose would get and where. Would the powers that be see it as detrimental to the development of a young Irish player? They're not going to stop Henshaw moving but I just wonder if they'd stop Leinster from offering Te'o a new deal.

I'm just thinking of the logic used in preventing Munster from signing Moore.

Zzippy

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I was thinking more of Ringrose, to be honest. If he's managed right this season and gets enough game time he could be a starter next season. If Henshaw were to come in and they kept Te'o you'd have to question how much game time Ringrose would get and where. Would the powers that be see it as detrimental to the development of a young Irish player? They're not going to stop Henshaw moving but I just wonder if they'd stop Leinster from offering Te'o a new deal.

I'm just thinking of the logic used in preventing Munster from signing Moore.

Possible alright. Remember Nathan Hines...

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I was thinking more of Ringrose, to be honest. If he's managed right this season and gets enough game time he could be a starter next season. If Henshaw were to come in and they kept Te'o you'd have to question how much game time Ringrose would get and where. Would the powers that be see it as detrimental to the development of a young Irish player? They're not going to stop Henshaw moving but I just wonder if they'd stop Leinster from offering Te'o a new deal.

I'm just thinking of the logic used in preventing Munster from signing Moore.

He's still young and there'll be loads of game time available with injuries or if Henshaw was with Ireland. You can't get by with two centres anyway. Can supplement that with playing on the wing. Don't really see an issue tbh.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Harley Uptight Light wrote: »

He's still young and there'll be loads of game time available with injuries or if Henshaw was with Ireland. You can't get by with two centres anyway. Can supplement that with playing on the wing. Don't really see an issue tbh.

Moore signing for Munster didn't seem like an issue either.

Cosmo Kramer

Is Te'o not technically a project player though, like Aki he could yet play for Ireland? If he's only a year from qualification it'd make sense to keep him on.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Moore signing for Munster didn't seem like an issue either.

Teo is already here though which right away makes it a different situation to Munster bringing in another NIQ. Maybe the IRFU will block it, maybe he doesn't want to stay, who really knows.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Is Te'o not technically a project player though, like Aki he could yet play for Ireland? If he's only a year from qualification it'd make sense to keep him on.

Well there's rumours he wants to go home. I suppose if they got him to commit to playing for Ireland it wouldn't be an issue as it'd be all Irish players.

I'm not saying it will be an issue and it obviously depends on what Henshaw decides to do. I'm just thinking hypothetically. ...

Journeyman_1

The big difference between Moore and T'eo in that situation is that in a year, T'eo would be qualified to play for Ireland. It would be massively unfair to both him and Leinster if the IRFU blocked it in that situation.

It's entirely possible the Ireland centre combination in 2 years time could be Aki, Te'o.

I wonder how'd that go down!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Harley Uptight Light wrote: »

He's still young and there'll be loads of game time available with injuries or if Henshaw was with Ireland. You can't get by with two centres anyway. Can supplement that with playing on the wing. Don't really see an issue tbh.

They wouldn't be getting by with 2 centres though. Fitzgerald and McFadden both play there. Reid and possibly Madigan there too. So even without Henshaw, Te'o and Ringrose they have 4 options.

But as I said it's just a hypothetical question. We shall see.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

The big difference between Moore and T'eo in that situation is that in a year, T'eo would be qualified to play for Ireland. It would be massively unfair to both him and Leinster if the IRFU blocked it in that situation.

Well yeah, if they got Te'o to commit to a long term deal including playing for Ireland it would change the issue entirely.

I still don't get how Moore would be a negative thing though. He'll be 33 by the time he'd be arriving at Munster. Any decent realistic prospects in that position should already have established themselves and if they're really young prospects a year or two studying under Moore can only be a good thing. The fact Best just signed on for another 2 years means there's unlikely to be much change in the Irish set up for the next while anyway.

vienne86

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Well there's rumours he wants to go home. I suppose if they got him to commit to playing for Ireland it wouldn't be an issue as it'd be all Irish players.

I'm not saying it will be an issue and it obviously depends on what Henshaw decides to do. I'm just thinking hypothetically. ...

I haven't heard those rumours about T'eo for a while now, but it could be the case. Certainly if Leinster aren't at least in the Pro12 playoffs, you wouldn't blame him for wanting to go elsewhere.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

vienne86 wrote: »

I haven't heard those rumours about T'eo for a while now, but it could be the case. Certainly if Leinster aren't at least in the Pro12 playoffs, you wouldn't blame him for wanting to go elsewhere.

The same could be said for Henshaw moving to Leinster. Lot of rugby to be played before the season is over but Connacht look like having a better season.

Tox56

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

The same could be said for Henshaw moving to Leinster. Lot of rugby to be played before the season is over but Connacht look like having a better season.

I think its way too early to be calling that, Connacht have had a lot of their banker games already and they need to prove they can sustain the momentum they have for the whole season, which has been a problem for them in the past

Journeyman_1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Well yeah, if they got Te'o to commit to a long term deal including playing for Ireland it would change the issue entirely.

I still don't get how Moore would be a negative thing though. He'll be 33 by the time he'd be arriving at Munster. Any decent realistic prospects in that position should already have established themselves and if they're really young prospects a year or two studying under Moore can only be a good thing. The fact Best just signed on for another 2 years means there's unlikely to be much change in the Irish set up for the next while anyway.

I'm not necessarily agreeing with the Moore decision fwiw (I actually disagree there), just pointing out the differences between the 2 situations.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Henshaw is out for up to 6 weeks with a metacarpal fracture.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Henshaw is out for up to 6 weeks with a metacarpal fracture.

He won't have heaps of time in the run up to the 6N to get fit. We might see Fitz at 12 for Leinster a good bit the next few weeks albeit that's not ideal either.

If I see Earls at 13 again for Ireland I might just have myself a little cry.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Deleted User wrote: »

He won't have heaps of time in the run up to the 6N to get fit. We might see Fitz at 12 for Leinster a good bit the next few weeks albeit that's not ideal either.

If I see Earls at 13 again for Ireland I might just have myself a little cry.

My post traumatic stress kicked in when I saw this the other night...

https://twitter.com/ultimaterugby/status/670690597049663488

McCloskey at 12 could be an option too but I've no idea where Payne is in his recovery so we could be looking at yet another new centre pairing.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

My post traumatic stress kicked in when I saw this the other night...

https://twitter.com/ultimaterugby/status/670690597049663488

McCloskey at 12 could be an option too but I've no idea where Payne is in his recovery so we could be looking at yet another new centre pairing.

We could indeed be looking at fresh centres and maybe that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to have some proper depth there and not be reliant on converted wingers.

That step by Henshaw would have gotten around a lot of experienced centres, but have a look at this MOTM performance against Wales over the summer, shocking blinkers from whoever awarded it:

https://streamable.com/7lt7

[MEDIA=https://streamable.com]7lt7[/MEDIA]

[MEDIA=streamable]7lt7[/MEDIA]

S12b

Deleted User wrote: »

It's entirely possible the Ireland centre combination in 2 years time could be Aki, Te'o.

I wonder how'd that go down!

Bunty Aki and Benjy Te'o.....two fine Connemara men....no problem at all!!:D:D

bilston

Deleted User wrote: »

It's entirely possible the Ireland centre combination in 2 years time could be Aki, Te'o.

I wonder how'd that go down!

In theory you could have Stander, Heenan, Aki, Te'o, Payne and Strauss all in an Irish team in 12 months time. It's unlikely but still possible. I don't know how that would go down if it ever came to pass, but then you wither qualify or you don't.

bilston

bilston wrote: »

In theory you could have Stander, Heenan, Aki, Te'o, Payne and Strauss all in an Irish team in 12 months time. It's unlikely but still possible. I don't know how that would go down if it ever came to pass, but then you wither qualify or you don't.

I'm not sure if George Hook would physically survive something like this happening.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

The thing about Te'o is he qualifies to play for England, Australia (I think), NZ and Samoa.

If he was to go back to Australia and stick with Union I could see him making the Wallabies side. They're not exactly overflowing with centre options.

It all depends on what his ambitions are.

Yeah_Right

bilston wrote: »

In theory you could have Stander, Heenan, Aki, Te'o, Payne and Strauss all in an Irish team in 12 months time. It's unlikely but still possible. I don't know how that would go down if it ever came to pass, but then you wither qualify or you don't.

Chuck in White, Bent and Ah You to make it a truly international team. Plus Bleyendaal.

Can't wait for the upcoming British and Irish and Kiwi Lions tour!

ClanofLams

Tox56 wrote: »

I think its way too early to be calling that, Connacht have had a lot of their banker games already and they need to prove they can sustain the momentum they have for the whole season, which has been a problem for them in the past

I think Connacht have pretty much top6 locked up, a win in Cardiff on Friday would lock it up entirely in my opinion.

6/7 more wins will get top 6, true that a lot of bankers wins are gone but we also have the 6N period to come which is traditionally a very strong period for Connacht.

Paddy Power usually aren't too far wrong and they have Connacht at just 7-2 to top the league, I wouldn't back that but an indication of how much of a disaster it would be to miss out on top6.

case885

I think McCloskey deserves his chance at 12 for the 6 nations if henshaw is still out, will Payne be back though?

aimee1

case885 wrote: »

I think McCloskey deserves his chance at 12 for the 6 nations if henshaw is still out, will Payne be back though?

Henshaw is due back mid january?

case885

aimee1 wrote:

Henshaw is due back mid january?

That's why I said if, there's no guarantee he'll be fit in 6 weeks anyway.

molloyjh

case885 wrote: »

That's why I said if, there's no guarantee he'll be fit in 6 weeks anyway.

It's a hand injury so it won't keep him off his feet and staying fit. It'll keep him out of contact is all. He'll easily get 2 if not 3 games before the 6Ns.

case885

molloyjh wrote:

It's a hand injury so it won't keep him off his feet and staying fit. It'll keep him out of contact is all. He'll easily get 2 if not 3 games before the 6Ns.

That ain't match fitness, and there's no guarantee his injury will have healed by then.

swiwi_

Deleted User wrote: »

It's entirely possible the Ireland centre combination in 2 years time could be Aki, Te'o.

I wonder how'd that go down!

According to my source, if we're making the Counties Manukau lad Irish it's a choice between

Bun D. O' Kee
Or possibly Bundy McKee

I always quite liked giving it a hint of Gaelic with

Bundí Akí

bilston

Henshaw should be grand for the 6Ns. Henderson was back in four weeks after a double dislocation in his hand after the Q/F. These young cubs are made of stern stuff.

Teferi

bilston wrote: »

Henshaw should be grand for the 6Ns. Henderson was back in four weeks after a double dislocation in his hand after the Q/F. These young cubs are made of stern stuff.

If worst comes to worst he can just do his best Michael Jackson impression à la Trimble.

jacothelad

case885 wrote: »

I think McCloskey deserves his chance at 12 for the 6 nations if henshaw is still out, will Payne be back though?

Ulster's need for him is paramount and there is really no need for him, Cave or Marshall or Olding for that matter to wheel up at Carton House as tackle bag holders. Fitzgerald at 12 and Earls at 13...Madigan, Ringrose and McFadden on the bench. Sorted. All positions in the backs covered.