Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

Stheno

former total wrote: »

You know when you're learning a new language, and you think you know what each word means but you just can't figure out what the sentence means?

Ah I'm not alone

Pink Fairy wrote: »

It'll come full circle soon enough, a few more ladyboy jokes and someone is bound to mention Ian Madigan

I was very disappointed recently, I saw* some of the Saracens players, they were way too pretty.

*they were in the same office complex I was in

kuang1

Ok clearly the thread's gone way too askew to be brought back on topic in one post, so here's my attempt at step 1 to getting things back on track:

http://m.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/life-as-a-transsexual-rugbyplaying-carpenter-20140828-1096k6.html

wrote:

Nate Duivenvoorden looks like any other rugby-playing carpenter. The scruffy 30-year-old is built like a stocky halfback. On the pitch he goose-steps, tackles and passes like any other player.

But Mr Duivenvoorden isn't any other rugby-playing carpenter. Until the early 2000s, he was a female.

jacothelad

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah I don't get the levels of shock. Some Tranny's can be really really convincing:
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Holy F*%k. Surely that's a criminal offence.

Stheno

jacothelad wrote: »

Holy F*%k. Surely that's a criminal offence.

Never seen Mick Wallace then?

Most excited to watch the connacht match this weekend. How times have changed

Bridge93

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Most excited to watch the connacht match this weekend. How times have changed

TG4 right now. 7-0 down after 8 mins. Blues playing very well

Stheno

It's 10-7 to Connaught now did they score two quick tries?

Stheno

Stheno wrote: »

It's 10-7 to Connaught now did they score two quick tries?

Nah, Ben Whitehouse just showed up and awarded two tries for the craic. Cardiff coaches look justifiably baffled.

vienne86

Deleted User wrote: »

Most excited to watch the connacht match this weekend. How times have changed

Indeed you are not the only one. A handful of posts on the Ulster thread tonight, and 10+ pages on the Connacht thread!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Bundi Aki is alright, eh? When exactly is he eligible for Ireland?

Bazzo

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Bundi Aki is alright, eh? When exactly is he eligible for Ireland?

He arrived to Connacht in October 2014 I believe.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Bazzo wrote: »

He arrived to Connacht in October 2014 I believe.

Not for a while then.

The McCloskey/Ringrose partnership will be well established by then.

jacothelad

Stheno wrote: »

Never seen Mick Wallace then?

That's who I thought it was getting ready for the Dail Christmas pi55-up.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Hanrahan starting at 10 today vs Bath.

Zzippy

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Not for a while then.

The McCloskey/Ringrose partnership will be well established by then.

Forgetting Henshaw?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Zzippy wrote: »

Forgetting Henshaw?

He's playing 15.

aimee1

http://www.balls.ie/rugby/ian-madigan-munster/318486


interesting article

Eoin

There is a sense that Leinster's logjam at tighthead will see one of Martin Moore or Mike Ross move to Connacht

I'd have thought this was Ross' last season?

case885

I would have thought Connacht are happy enough with Ah you, white and O Donnell coming through, I can't see Moore moving west.

vienne86

Eoin wrote: »

I'd have thought this was Ross' last season?

I would have thought so - he was never speedy, but he seems to have really slowed up.

Bazzo

case885 wrote: »

I would have thought Connacht are happy enough with Ah you, white and O Donnell coming through, I can't see Moore moving west.

O'Donnell is a loosehead primarily. Bealham plays either side of the scrum though. The talk is of Moore or Ross being shifted to Connacht if Ah You were to be moved up to Ulster.

Pink Fairy

aimee1 wrote: »

http://www.balls.ie/rugby/ian-madigan-munster/318486


interesting article

So Leinster get Henshaw, a player everybody wants, and Munster get Madigan, a player nobody wants? And on a central contract too, that guy must have some agent!

aimee1

Pink Fairy wrote: »

So Leinster get Henshaw, a player everybody wants, and Munster get Madigan, a player nobody wants? And on a central contract too, that guy must have some agent!

well if rumours are to be believed there is some interest in Madigan from TOP 14 and AP

Pink Fairy

aimee1 wrote: »

well if rumours are to be believed there is some interest in Madigan from TOP 14 and AP

They are quite welcome to him, fools and their money etc

case885

Pink Fairy wrote:

So Leinster get Henshaw, a player everybody wants, and Munster get Madigan, a player nobody wants? And on a central contract too, that guy must have some agent!

At least we'd be getting him for free

Pink Fairy

case885 wrote: »

At least we'd be getting him for free

It's still too much

case885

Pink Fairy wrote:

It's still too much

What if we bleached Zebo's skin and gave him madigans central contract? He'd have to stop doing the Z celebration after he scores a try though

Hagz

Bazzo wrote: »

O'Donnell is a loosehead primarily. Bealham plays either side of the scrum though.

Seems to be a recent development. He played tight-head at u18 and u20s for Ireland and made his first appearance off the bench this season at tight-head.

I'm hoping he's just playing loose-head at the moment to get used to the standard of rugby.

Bazzo

Hagz wrote: »

Seems to be a recent development. He played tight-head at u18 and u20s for Ireland and made his first appearance off the bench this season at tight-head.

I'm hoping he's just playing loose-head at the moment to get used to the standard of rugby.

I think Pat very much wants him as a loosehead though. White/Ah You/Bealham are all solid tight heads(Bealham is better at TH than LH imo) whereas at LH it's Buckley followed by Loughney(who has had some issues with injury) and after that you're looking to Bealham to plug the gap.

Yeah_Right

I think it's a good idea in theory. Move players around the provinces to help Ireland. I do find the examples they gave strange. I would have thought Madigan to Connacht made more sense. Why do Leinster need Henshaw? They have enough cover in midfield. Why move Ah You and then replace him with Moore or Ross?

irishbucsfan

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I think it's a good idea in theory. Move players around the provinces to help Ireland. I do find the examples they gave strange. I would have thought Madigan to Connacht made more sense. Why do Leinster need Henshaw? They have enough cover in midfield. Why move Ah You and then replace him with Moore or Ross?

Not sure I agree with Henshaw leaving Connacht but Leinster certainly don't have nearly enough cover in midfield. When Te'o leaves we'll be left with very little, Noel Reid and Gary Ringrose? Luke Fitzgerald maybe?

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

. When Te'o leaves

Has this been confirmed?

Pink Fairy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Has this been confirmed?

No, but its a very strong rumour that he's being poached as there's a lot of interest in him, England would be a good bet as he's eligible to play international rugby with them

molloyjh

Deleted User wrote: »

Has this been confirmed?

I don't think anything at all has been even close to confirmed on anything we've been talking about in the last 24 hours. There's a lot of rumour and conjecture about. It'll be interesting to see how much of it actually pans out.

vienne86

I can see a lot of sense in moving players between provinces for the sake of getting them good game time and and helping Ireland, but I wonder will some of the province's supporters be enthused.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

When Te'o leaves

Deleted User wrote: »

Has this been confirmed?

Pink Fairy wrote: »

No, but its a very strong rumour that he's being poached as there's a lot of interest in him, England would be a good bet as he's eligible to play international rugby with them

So no then.

Been gospel on here a good while now, despite him not being linked to anywhere or anything substantial in the media.

Yeah_Right

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Not sure I agree with Henshaw leaving Connacht but Leinster certainly don't have nearly enough cover in midfield. When Te'o leaves we'll be left with very little, Noel Reid and Gary Ringrose? Luke Fitzgerald maybe?

Lots of game time for 2 good young players then

Also between McFadden and Fitz that's plenty of midfield cover even Teo leaves. Surely if they want to move midfielders to give them game time they should be looking to move some of the guys from Ulster.

former total

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Lots of game time for 2 good young players then

Also between McFadden and Fitz that's plenty of midfield cover even Teo leaves. Surely if they want to move midfielders to give them game time they should be looking to move some of the guys from Ulster.

If Fitz and McFadden are centres, who are the wingers?

We need more players. One in, one out is no solution. That goes for Ulster and Munster too.

Tox56

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I think it's a good idea in theory. Move players around the provinces to help Ireland. I do find the examples they gave strange. I would have thought Madigan to Connacht made more sense. Why do Leinster need Henshaw? They have enough cover in midfield. Why move Ah You and then replace him with Moore or Ross?

Its debatable how much we really need him, but presumably the players themselves have some say and the IRFU cant just force them somewhere against their will, so it could be that Henshaw wants the move to Leinster more than anywhere else. Likewise maybe Madigan would prefer a move to Munster over Connacht

Zzippy

Tox56 wrote: »

Its debatable how much we really need him, but presumably the players themselves have some say and the IRFU cant just force them somewhere against their will, so it could be that Henshaw wants the move to Leinster more than anywhere else. Likewise maybe Madigan would prefer a move to Munster over Connacht

The article appears to indicate that the union has a large say and is basically moving players, or giving them no other option but to move. I'm pretty sure Rodney Ah You doesn't want to move to Ulster, he's well settled in Galway and his family are apparently quite happy here, yet he's being touted as moving. Would it not make more sense to move Moore/Ross to Ulster, rather than moving 2 players? I'd also be confident Madigan would rather remain at Leinster than move to Munster, but he's probably not being offered a contract to stay at Leinster.
Moving players around to spread the talent around more and develop players is fine as long as it doesn't disproportionately weaken one province. Connacht are being screwed in the scenario above, losing Henshaw and Ah You and gaining Ross. No thanks!

former total

Zzippy wrote: »

The article appears to indicate that the union has a large say and is basically moving players, or giving them no other option but to move.

It's not as simple as that. Economics comes into it too.

Take Madigan; no way can the IRFU even nearly compete with the alleged sums being offered to him, if he's only sitting on the bench at Leinster. But, if he's starting at Munster, then maybe they get more value for money.

Henshaw, well I'm pretty sure he wants to go of his own accord.

Ah You? I can't really get my head around that one to be honest. He's not on the national team radar at all so I'd be surprised if Nucifora is pushing him to move.

Yeah_Right

Zippy, 100% agree.

molloyjh

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Why do Leinster need Henshaw? They have enough cover in midfield.

Cover yes, quality first choice definitely not.

We have Reid, Te'o, Ringrose and O'Shea at the moment. We've a few others who can cover centre, but who are really wingers (or an out-half in Mads case). If we move them in then we have a shortage of wingers and players out of position in midfield.

Reid and O'Shea look like they are really going to struggle to make the grade, and if these rumours are to be believed it looks like Te'o is off at the end of the season. That really just leaves Ringrose, who is still very young. The only other players who could cover the midfield are Mads (rumoured to be leaving), Fitz (a winger) and McFadden (a winger at this stage but also a limited player, honest and hard working though he is).

Centre is potentially a big issue for Leinster next season.

Zzippy

former total wrote: »

It's not as simple as that. Economics comes into it too.

Take Madigan; no way can the IRFU even nearly compete with the alleged sums being offered to him, if he's only sitting on the bench at Leinster. But, if he's starting at Munster, then maybe they get more value for money.

Henshaw, well I'm pretty sure he wants to go of his own accord.

Ah You? I can't really get my head around that one to be honest. He's not on the national team radar at all so I'd be surprised if Nucifora is pushing him to move.

We have no idea if Henshaw wants to move or not. Unless you know better. The union could recognise that he has developed just fine at Connacht, is getting the best coaching he could get in Ireland, and playing alongside the best centre in Ireland at the moment, and offer him a central contract to stay here. Just not offer him a contract at Leinster, same as they appear to be doing with Madigan. Re value, if you want to play for Ireland then the huge sums on offer don't mean as much if you're going to be frozen out. But moving him for development reasons makes sense - your point about sitting on the bench is valid. The same reason cannot be offered for Henshaw moving to Leinster.

The Ah You move has been mentioned twice now, in Cummiskey's article and (I think) last week's piece by Darcy. Just doesn't make sense to me at all. Unless we're getting Moore, but Connacht still lose out big time with Henshaw going. Ross for Ah You would be an insult - farm him out to Connacht 'til his retirement.

molloyjh

Zzippy wrote: »

The article appears to indicate that the union has a large say and is basically moving players, or giving them no other option but to move. I'm pretty sure Rodney Ah You doesn't want to move to Ulster, he's well settled in Galway and his family are apparently quite happy here, yet he's being touted as moving. Would it not make more sense to move Moore/Ross to Ulster, rather than moving 2 players? I'd also be confident Madigan would rather remain at Leinster than move to Munster, but he's probably not being offered a contract to stay at Leinster.
Moving players around to spread the talent around more and develop players is fine as long as it doesn't disproportionately weaken one province. Connacht are being screwed in the scenario above, losing Henshaw and Ah You and gaining Ross. No thanks!

For starters these are just rumours. Secondly even if these are true I'd be fairly sure they aren't the only moves being looked at.

We've seen plenty of these kinds of rumours that turned out to be false so it's best to take it all with a pinch of salt.

EDIT: As for the rumours of Henshaw wanting the move, they are rumours as much as the moves themselves. You can't pick and choose what you want to have backed up by fact just to suit your outrage in fairness.

jacothelad

Why would Moore move to Connacht? Ross is on his last legs. Furlong and Moore are the future at tight head for both Leinster and Ireland, Ross most assuredly is not. Ah You is fine where he is. What possible benefit is he to Ireland by moving him to Ulster? None of this speculation bears any scrutiny. As for Henshaw moving to Leinster, you would have to ask why? Just because it's Leinster? No doubt if Henshaw saw it as a dream move it might happen but if it was to happen simply because it's good for Leinster and bad for Connacht, it will set a terrible precedent in Irish Rugby.

Zzippy

molloyjh wrote: »

For starters these are just rumours. Secondly even if these are true I'd be fairly sure they aren't the only moves being looked at.

We've seen plenty of these kinds of rumours that turned out to be false so it's best to take it all with a pinch of salt.

EDIT: As for the rumours of Henshaw wanting the move, they are rumours as much as the moves themselves. You can't pick and choose what you want to have backed up by fact just to suit your outrage in fairness.

Absolutely they are rumours, but they have been printed in the paper of record, so they probably have some basis, and are worth discussing here.

My point about Henshaw stands. I'm all for players being moved by the union to develop them best for the national team, provided we are not unduly weakening provinces by doing so. Whether a player wants a move or not appears to be irrelevant to Nucifora, going on the Ah You and Madigan rumours. So why should Henshaw move to Leinster just because he apparently wants to, if it is not going to develop him better than he is developing at Connacht, with better coaching, and in the process weakening a province by removing a star player?

former total

Zzippy wrote: »

We have no idea if Henshaw wants to move or not. Unless you know better. The union could recognise that he has developed just fine at Connacht, is getting the best coaching he could get in Ireland, and playing alongside the best centre in Ireland at the moment, and offer him a central contract to stay here. Just not offer him a contract at Leinster, same as they appear to be doing with Madigan.

I don't know anything, other than media reports from reliable sources that he wants to move, and the fact that he is a very valuable player that IRFU will want to keep happy. He'll be allowed to go wherever he wants (or stay where he is).

If the IRFU made him stay at Connacht, is that better than making him go to another province?

Zzippy

former total wrote: »

I don't know anything, other than media reports from reliable sources that he wants to move, and the fact that he is a very valuable player that IRFU will want to keep happy. He'll be allowed to go wherever he wants (or stay where he is).

If the IRFU made him stay at Connacht, is that better than making him go to another province?

No, it's the same thing. I never said making a player move or stay is a bad thing. I think players should be moved where it will improve their development first of all, to benefit the national team. That kind of move is best for a player like Madigan, whose gametime is limited by better players ahead of him in his position, but whose potential is greater than that of players in his position at other provinces. Or for players who would benefit from better coaching at another province. Neither apply to Henshaw, who is a mainstay of any team he plays for, already getting all the gametime he needs, and who is getting the best coaching possible already. How would playing under Cullen benefit his development better than being coached by Lam?

Pretty much none of the examples from that article make sense