Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

We should just have a world cup every year.

stephen_n

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

If relegation was in place it would cause issues for any side that went down and sponsorship would be an issue if sides other than France got relegated.
6Ns brings in most of the income for the unions involved so there wont be changes.
Im fairly sure games on a more regular basis would benefit these sides than not playing "tier 1" sides from one world cup to the next, or close enough to that

When would these games occur? The unions need the money generated from international games to fund themselves, decreasing the number of games against Tier 1 opposition would be financially disastrous. The clubs would go mad if the number of internationals are increased. As things stand even sending the wolfhounds to tournaments against Tier 2 nations they run riot. That is still a far better approach than full internationals though.

The Lost Sheep

stephen_n wrote: »

When would these games occur? The unions need the money generated from international games to fund themselves, decreasing the number of games against Tier 1 opposition would be financially disastrous. The clubs would go mad if the number of internationals are increased. As things stand even sending the wolfhounds to tournaments against Tier 2 nations they run riot. That is still a far better approach than full internationals though.

With space in the existing international windows. Im not calling on games against top sides to be removed to fit these in. The wolfhounds teams that play in tournaments against "tier 2" nations generally are not facing full strength "tier 2" sides
That isn't a better approach than full internationals and those from Georgia etc clearly don't think it is if you look at the tier 2 forum etc

Bazzo

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

With space in the existing international windows. Im not calling on games against top sides to be removed to fit these in. The wolfhounds teams that play in tournaments against "tier 2" nations generally are not facing full strength "tier 2" sides
That isn't a better approach than full internationals and those from Georgia etc clearly don't think it is if you look at the tier 2 forum etc

TBH if the tier 2 nations want to start getting more games against full strength tier 1 sides then maybe they should take the internationals they get at the minute more seriously. If Georgia actually started beating the likes of emerging Ireland then they would have a leg to stand on calling for better opposition.

Scythica

Forgive me if I've missed it but the fact that we're less than 2 months from the 6 nations starting now and we don't seem to have replaced Kiss yet...?

Any rumours at least?

awec

Scythica wrote: »

Forgive me if I've missed it but the fact that we're less than 2 months from the 6 nations starting now and we don't seem to have replaced Kiss yet...?

Any rumours at least?

Doak for Ireland.

jm08

Scythica wrote: »

Forgive me if I've missed it but the fact that we're less than 2 months from the 6 nations starting now and we don't seem to have replaced Kiss yet...?

Any rumours at least?

ROG seems to have turned them down.

The Lost Sheep

Bazzo wrote: »

TBH if the tier 2 nations want to start getting more games against full strength tier 1 sides then maybe they should take the internationals they get at the minute more seriously. If Georgia actually started beating the likes of emerging Ireland then they would have a leg to stand on calling for better opposition.

Why? Georgia use those games for expanding the depth of their squad. If World Rugby wont give them real tests why should they not develop the depth of their squad in tests like these. Georgia have beaten all around them in Europe at ENC level yet in their history they have played 16 games against 1 of the 6 nations/4 nations sides. How can they improve without full tests against the best?

CatFromHue

Scythica wrote: »

Forgive me if I've missed it but the fact that we're less than 2 months from the 6 nations starting now and we don't seem to have replaced Kiss yet...?

Any rumours at least?

Schmidt might do the job himself, he did it when he was at Leinster.

Bazzo

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Why? Georgia use those games for expanding the depth of their squad. If World Rugby wont give them real tests why should they not develop the depth of their squad in tests like these. Georgia have beaten all around them in Europe at ENC level yet in their history they have played 16 games against 1 of the 6 nations/4 nations sides. How can they improve without full tests against the best?

I mean it's kind of a catch 22. You can argue that they don't take it seriously because we don't take it seriously, but the only way that they will get to face better opposition is by beating the teams in front of them. Just saying that they COULD beat them if they wanted to doesn't really fly.

Scythica

awec wrote: »

Doak for Ireland.

Cricket?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Eoin Griffin has re signed with Connacht after 2 years at London Irish. Not sure if he's any good but another centre option for Ireland next season.

its_phil

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Eoin Griffin has re signed with Connacht after 2 years at London Irish. Not sure if he's any good but another centre option for Ireland next season.

He's quality but injuries have taken their toll. Brilliant player defensively, getting straight back on feet and make a turnover regularly. Hamstring affected his attack.

The Lost Sheep

Bazzo wrote: »

I mean it's kind of a catch 22. You can argue that they don't take it seriously because we don't take it seriously, but the only way that they will get to face better opposition is by beating the teams in front of them. Just saying that they COULD beat them if they wanted to doesn't really fly.

It is but we have to be doing more. Just like NZ/Australia need to be playing Islanders more and more in the islands.
They choose not to play a full strength side as they will learn more from it. That they don't play full strength sides shows up what those tournaments are. World Rugby can say theyre helping the Georgias of this world but theyre not. What would help Georgia/Romania is more tests in November and June against the full sides of Ireland/Argentina/England etc.

bilston

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Eoin Griffin has re signed with Connacht after 2 years at London Irish. Not sure if he's any good but another centre option for Ireland next season.

He was good at U20 level for Ireland.

stephen_n

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

It is but we have to be doing more. Just like NZ/Australia need to be playing Islanders more and more in the islands.
They choose not to play a full strength side as they will learn more from it. That they don't play full strength sides shows up what those tournaments are. World Rugby can say theyre helping the Georgias of this world but theyre not. What would help Georgia/Romania is more tests in November and June against the full sides of Ireland/Argentina/England etc.

Most players at international level are involved in the business end of the club seasons, as such they are playing nearly right up to the summer tours, extending the amount of games they need to play in June, would mean less time off between seasons, this wouldn't suit the players, the clubs or the unions. In an ideal world this idea would be great, but it's not really workable for the players.

Bazzo

bilston wrote: »

He was good at U20 level for Ireland.

More recently he played well in the last Emerging Ireland tour albeit against limited opposition. He always did well when he was fit at Connacht.

The Lost Sheep

stephen_n wrote: »

Most players at international level are involved in the business end of the club seasons, as such they are playing nearly right up to the summer tours, extending the amount of games they need to play in June, would mean less time off between seasons, this wouldn't suit the players, the clubs or the unions. In an ideal world this idea would be great, but it's not really workable for the players.

There is room in the season for more to be done for the sides the next level down to us and saying otherwise is head in the sand stuff. Georgia nearly beat us and Scotland in recent world cups but how many games against 6Nation/4 nations have they played in the years between the world cups.
This idea is workable if World Rugby wanted to help the next tier of sides progress even more.

Coburger

I haven't seen so much of all of the provinces playing. Managers often state that they pick on form. So, with this thought in mind ....

Since the end of the Rugby World Cup, based purely on form, what would the actual Irish team be, 1 - 15, players playing in and out of Ireland?

'Form XXIII'

1. Buckley
2. Best
3. N/A
4. Muldowney
5. McCarthy
6. Stander
7. Henry
8. Heaslip
9. N/A
10. Carty
11. Gilroy
12. Ronaldson
13. McCloskey
14. Trimble
15. Nelson

16. Cronin
17. N/A
18. N/A
19. Ryan
20. Van der Flier?
21. N/A
22. N/A
23. Fitzgerald

b.gud

Deleted User wrote: »

'Form XXIII'

1. Buckley
2. Best
3. N/A
4. Muldowney
5. McCarthy
6. Stander
7. Henry
8. Heaslip
9. N/A
10. Carty
11. Gilroy
12. Ronaldson
13. McCloskey
14. Trimble
15. Nelson

16. Cronin
17. N/A
18. N/A
19. Ryan
20. Van der Flier?
21. N/A
22. N/A
23. Fitzgerald

Marmion and McGrath have both been playing well for scrum half options.

Zzippy

Coburger wrote: »

I haven't seen so much of all of the provinces playing. Managers often state that they pick on form. So, with this thought in mind ....

Since the end of the Rugby World Cup, based purely on form, what would the actual Irish team be, 1 - 15, players playing in and out of Ireland?

Denis Buckley
Rory Best
Nathan White
Donncha Ryan
Aly Muldowney
CJ Stander
Chris Henry
Jamie Heaslip
Conor Murray
Paddy Jackson
Matt Healy
Stu McCloskey
Bundee Aki Craig Ronaldson
Craig Gilroy
Robbie Henshaw




*Slight Connacht bias, I'll admit

Edit: I also forgot Bundee isn't IQ...yet!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Zzippy wrote: »

Denis Buckley
Rory Best
Nathan White
Donncha Ryan
Aly Muldowney
CJ Stander
Chris Henry
Jamie Heaslip
Conor Murray
Paddy Jackson
Matt Healy
Stu McCloskey
Bundee Aki
Craig Gilroy
Robbie Henshaw




*Slight Connacht bias, I'll admit

Aki is great but not eligible, yet, so he's a no go.

penybont exile

Zzippy wrote: »

Denis Buckley
Rory Best
Nathan White
Donncha Ryan
Aly Muldowney
CJ Stander
Chris Henry
Jamie Heaslip
Conor Murray
Paddy Jackson
Matt Healy
Stu McCloskey
Bundee Aki Craig Ronaldson
Craig Gilroy
Robbie Henshaw




*Slight Connacht bias, I'll admit

Edit: I also forgot Bundee isn't IQ...yet!

Would love to see this crowd run out on Feb 6th ......

CMOTDibbler

penybont exile wrote: »

Would love to see this crowd run out on Feb 6th ......

Not in a good way for us I suspect...

former total

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Not in a good way for us I suspect...

Penybont is Welsh... that team would get obliterated.

Zzippy

former total wrote: »

Penybont is Welsh... that team would get obliterated.

Of course they would. Since when does anyone pick a team based solely on form, but that was the criteria, even if it is a futile exercise.

CMOTDibbler

former total wrote: »

Penybont is Welsh... that team would get obliterated.

I know, on both counts. I was trying to be gentle for Zzippy's benefit

Bazzo

What has Marty Moore looked like since he got back from injury? Has Tadhg Furlong featured for Leinster at all post world cup? Producing tight heads seems to be a real issue for Ireland.

macslash

Surely TOH would be in a form Ireland 23 at the moment?

PTH2009

Is the balloon going to burst for Irish rugby????

We have the toughest opening game in the championship next year against a Welsh side who have something over us .lose/draw this and no grand slam and triple crown. We did win handy the last time we played them here in the championship though.

PTH2009

PTH2009 wrote: »

Is the balloon going to burst for Irish rugby????

We have the toughest opening game in the championship next year against a Welsh side who have something over us .lose/draw this and no grand slam and triple crown. We did win handy the last time we played them here in the championship though.

Wales are typically slower starters and have quite a few ongoing injury issues so we've nothing to fear from them. Not saying it won't be a tough game, but no reason to think we won't win either.

bilston

PTH2009 wrote: »

Is the balloon going to burst for Irish rugby????

We have the toughest opening game in the championship next year against a Welsh side who have something over us .lose/draw this and no grand slam and triple crown. We did win handy the last time we played them here in the championship though.

I think we might find this season's 6Ns tight but that is because of the injuries up front as well as adjusting to life after POC.

Moving forward I think we will still be pretty competitive in the 6Ns with young guys like Furlong, Ruddock, Henderson, Stander and Van Der Flier in the pack and McGrath, Henshaw, McCloskey, Ringrose and Olding behind. There is still a good conveyor belt of talent to come through.

I worry for the provinces though. I've said it loads of times, the only way the provinces can compete with the Top 14 and Premiership is with significantly extra funding, and as far as I can see the only way that can happen is with a B & I league and all the TV and sponsorship money that would follow. In the meantime the IRFU needs to stop using the provinces as a training ground for young coaches. The provinces need the best coaches they can get. We are lucky at Ulster we have got Kiss in charge. Leinster and Munster need to get new experienced head coaches in as well I'm afraid.

PTH2009

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Wales are typically slower starters and have quite a few ongoing injury issues so we've nothing to fear from them. Not saying it won't be a tough game, but no reason to think we won't win either.

Scotland cud be dark horses as Italy, England and France all have new management teams and these teams will be going in untested. Wales have a few injuries and if we go by the provinces form we won't be any great shakes. Scotland finished the strongest out of all the north hempishere teams from the world cup imo

Clearlier

bilston wrote: »

I think we might find this season's 6Ns tight but that is because of the injuries up front as well as adjusting to life after POC.

Moving forward I think we will still be pretty competitive in the 6Ns with young guys like Furlong, Ruddock, Henderson, Stander and Van Der Flier in the pack and McGrath, Henshaw, McCloskey, Ringrose and Olding behind. There is still a good conveyor belt of talent to come through.

I worry for the provinces though. I've said it loads of times, the only way the provinces can compete with the Top 14 and Premiership is with significantly extra funding, and as far as I can see the only way that can happen is with a B & I league and all the TV and sponsorship money that would follow. In the meantime the IRFU needs to stop using the provinces as a training ground for young coaches. The provinces need the best coaches they can get. We are lucky at Ulster we have got Kiss in charge. Leinster and Munster need to get new experienced head coaches in as well I'm afraid.

I get your wider point but I don't think that youth is nearly as important as experience in coaching. Cheika was only one year older than Cullen is now when he took over at Leinster however he had 5 years of head coaching behind him already at that stage (albeit at a lower level). Leinster was Schmidt's first head coaching job but he had 7 years experience of coaching adult teams at that stage (possibly more if you include kids). Cullen has just one of assistant coaching. His age isn't the problem, it's his relative lack of experience. The problem isn't quite as bad as when Johnson took the England job but he would have been better advised to gain more experience before accepting the job.

All that said I thought that the provinces chose their coaches? Also, rumour has it that there was a dearth of quality applicants for the Leinster position.

macslash

Is there a training camp coming up before xmas?

case885

macslash wrote:

Is there a training camp coming up before xmas?

Around the 5th January I think was mentioned.

jacothelad

bilston wrote: »

I think we might find this season's 6Ns tight but that is because of the injuries up front as well as adjusting to life after POC.

Moving forward I think we will still be pretty competitive in the 6Ns with young guys like Furlong, Ruddock, Henderson, Stander and Van Der Flier in the pack and McGrath, Henshaw, McCloskey, Ringrose and Olding behind. There is still a good conveyor belt of talent to come through.

I worry for the provinces though. I've said it loads of times, the only way the provinces can compete with the Top 14 and Premiership is with significantly extra funding, and as far as I can see the only way that can happen is with a B & I league and all the TV and sponsorship money that would follow. In the meantime the IRFU needs to stop using the provinces as a training ground for young coaches. The provinces need the best coaches they can get. We are lucky at Ulster we have got Kiss in charge. Leinster and Munster need to get new experienced head coaches in as well I'm afraid.

But the only way any extra funding would help is if the Provinces could use it to sign high quality overseas players and that isn't going to happen. We could all get an extra £5,000,000 per team and unless we could get better NIQ or NIE players with the extra cash, all we could do is pay the current players more money. Maybe we could attract better coaches if indeed that is the problem.

The problem as I see it at Ulster is a simple one. Not enough young players - particularly forwards - are developing locally--or perhaps too many locally developing players are being ignored.

Where can we find local versions of Black, Herring, Herbst, Van Der Merwe, Alan O'Connor, Diack, Tuohy, Pienaar, Payne, Ludik, Arnold, Browne, Ruaidhri Murphy, Sean Reidy, Bronson Ross, Paul Rowley, Sam Windsor and Nick Williams. Let's be honest, there are guys playing in the AIL that wouldn't be any worse than a few of those. Browne, Ruaidhri Murphy, Bronson Ross, Paul Rowley, Sam Windsor are basically place holders - and that is being polite. Even in the Academy we have Lorcan Dow, Dave Shanahan, Nick Timoney and Craig Trenier who aren't initially developed in Ulster. That's a lot of non-Ulster players. I have no objections if they are good players but there are local guys being cold shouldered while empty shirts are hired from England just because they had pro contracts and are able to fulfill the IQ requirements. It apparently didn't matter that they were crap, some of them even arrived injured ffs. It's time players like Simpson were given at least a period of opportunity - if they are interested.

As we are all too aware, many of our best young players are set for University places in G.B. and that's it. Gone for good. Any of our best young players who play for unfashionable junior sides haven't a snowballs chance of making it to even the least important gathering of squads.

Also there is the appalling carry on that often those that do get a call are there because the thing is being run by their coaches not because they are the best players. It's no wonder so many are turned off by the time they are 19 or 20. Even supportive parents lose heart when they see what is going on.

Then we have the despicable case of the rugby coach at a local Grammar School informing his players that if any of them even so much as train at night with their local club and it's highly qualified coaches - not even play for the club, just train - that they would be given Saturday detentions. To55er.

phog

I've heard/read that Leinster are looking for an NIQ scrumhalf, if Munster lose Murray to a foreign club then they too could end up looking for an NIQ scrumhalf. That would lead to three of the four provinces with NIQ scrumhalves. That's not going to be great for Ireland.

Pink Fairy

phog wrote: »

I've heard/read that Leinster are looking for an NIQ scrumhalf, if Munster lose Murray to a foreign club then they too could end up looking for an NIQ scrumhalf. That would lead to three of the four provinces with NIQ scrumhalves. That's not going to be great for Ireland.

Please don't say things like that
But, if players of Murray's calibre want to move and enjoy a different lifestyle, more money and the chance of winning European trophies, you can't really blame them

molloyjh

Id rather Ireland didn't join this race to the top. I don't think it's at all sustainable, at least not here. We've got to play to our strengths. We have much larger pools available to us across the provinces than most clubs do. With strong Academy and youth structures we should be looking to produce as many quality players as possible.

We also need to see the Pro12 get the focus it needs. Maybe a few quiet seasons in Europe would actually help there, especially if the Welsh are getting a lot of their internationals back. If the Ospreys can get back to where they were, Glasgow can continue their run of form and a few other sides pick up a bit as well it has the potential to be a pretty good league.

If we have a good league and good structures we can develop a strong national squad. Compete in the 6Ns every year and have a strong league where we're competitive would be a massive win as far as I'm concerned. Let the French and English spend exorbitant amounts of cash, strong Irish provinces can still compete to a decent degree against them even if they don't go on to win the trophies. And our national side should be far better off for it all.

CMOTDibbler

molloyjh wrote: »

Id rather Ireland didn't join this race to the top. I don't think it's at all sustainable, at least not here. We've got to play to our strengths. We have much larger pools available to us across the provinces than most clubs do. With strong Academy and youth structures we should be looking to produce as many quality players as possible.

We also need to see the Pro12 get the focus it needs. Maybe a few quiet seasons in Europe would actually help there, especially if the Welsh are getting a lot of their internationals back. If the Ospreys can get back to where they were, Glasgow can continue their run of form and a few other sides pick up a bit as well it has the potential to be a pretty good league.

If we have a good league and good structures we can develop a strong national squad. Compete in the 6Ns every year and have a strong league where we're competitive would be a massive win as far as I'm concerned. Let the French and English spend exorbitant amounts of cash, strong Irish provinces can still compete to a decent degree against them even if they don't go on to win the trophies. And our national side should be far better off for it all.

+1

If there was an extra few million available for each province it should go into growing the academies and giving the academy players more game time in an 'A' league or something similar for academy squads. Even if just a round robin of inter-pros all season long it would help give them some exposure and meaningful games. As it stands there are very few matches outside AIL that these lads play in.

bilston

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

+1

If there was an extra few million available for each province it should go into growing the academies and giving the academy players more game time in an 'A' league or something similar for academy squads. Even if just a round robin of inter-pros all season long it would help give them some exposure and meaningful games. As it stands there are very few matches outside AIL that these lads play in.

If there is a few million extra for the provinces then it should be split between the academies and better NIQs.

The academies can only succeed if the talent is there. The clubs and schools maybe need the funsing more than the academies.

CMOTDibbler

bilston wrote: »

If there is a few million extra for the provinces then it should be split between the academies and better NIQs.

The academies can only succeed if the talent is there. The clubs and schools maybe need the funsing more than the academies.

If the point is to develop home grown players then NIQs are a waste of money. Not only do they eat up resources, but they block places for genuine contenders from the academies (if they exist of course).

When you look at improving any system, you need to look for choke points and blockages. Academy squad sizes are generally small. Munster academy has 24 players currently, Leinster academy has 22. Realistically these should be closer to twice that size in order to ensure continuity into the senior squads and to give club and schools level players something concrete to aim for.

Schools generally have enough funding, clubs not so much.

If you look at it as a pyramid with the national squad at the peak, this is how it looks currently (rough figures):

Level|Number of players
National Squad|40
Provincial Squads|150
Provincial Academies|100
Age level Schools/Clubs|2000+


By age level schools and clubs I'm counting players at senior cup level who's next career move on the ladder would be into a provincial academy or out to AIL.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

If the point is to develop home grown players then NIQs are a waste of money. Not only do they eat up resources, but they block places for genuine contenders from the academies (if they exist of course).

When you look at improving any system, you need to look for choke points and blockages. Academy squad sizes are generally small. Munster academy has 24 players currently, Leinster academy has 22. Realistically these should be closer to twice that size in order to ensure continuity into the senior squads and to give club and schools level players something concrete to aim for.

Schools generally have enough funding, clubs not so much.

If you look at it as a pyramid with the national squad at the peak, this is how it looks currently (rough figures):

Level|Number of players
National Squad|40
Provincial Squads|150
Provincial Academies|100
Age level Schools/Clubs|2000+


By age level schools and clubs I'm counting players at senior cup level who's next career move on the ladder would be into a provincial academy or out to AIL.

Maybe they should look at spending any extra money on developing the game at schools level beyond the traditional schools. I mentioned this somewhere else a while ago but in Ulster, for example, all the schools who participate in the Ulster School's Cup are from the 6 counties. That's 3 counties worth of talent being ignored, 2 of which have been producing pretty decent athletes for the GAA over the past few years.

I'm sure if you looked at the other provinces too there are counties where kids don't get any real level of competition, if they have school teams at all.

jm08

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Maybe they should look at spending any extra money on developing the game at schools level beyond the traditional schools. I mentioned this somewhere else a while ago but in Ulster, for example, all the schools who participate in the Ulster School's Cup are from the 6 counties. That's 3 counties worth of talent being ignored, 2 of which have been producing pretty decent athletes for the GAA over the past few years.

I'm sure if you looked at the other provinces too there are counties where kids don't get any real level of competition, if they have school teams at all.

Its up to the schools to accept the (free) coaching. Most would be diehard GAA fans so there isn't a hope they would accept rugby. Likewise in rugby schools about accepting free GAA coaching.

CMOTDibbler

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Maybe they should look at spending any extra money on developing the game at schools level beyond the traditional schools. I mentioned this somewhere else a while ago but in Ulster, for example, all the schools who participate in the Ulster School's Cup are from the 6 counties. That's 3 counties worth of talent being ignored, 2 of which have been producing pretty decent athletes for the GAA over the past few years.

I'm sure if you looked at the other provinces too there are counties where kids don't get any real level of competition, if they have school teams at all.

You may be right but there are a lot of schools including non-fee paying schools involved in rugby these days. An increase in those numbers would be good, but the point I'm making is that there's nowhere for them to go after school if they want to make a career in rugby. There's a massive bottleneck at academy level. That level of the pyramid should be greater, not smaller than the level above it.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

jm08 wrote: »

Its up to the schools to accept the (free) coaching. Most would be diehard GAA fans so there isn't a hope they would accept rugby. Likewise in rugby schools about accepting free GAA coaching.

I can't speak for all counties but I have a couple of young cousins in Donegal who have started playing rugby over the past few years. They play at a local club which was set up a few years ago and is really thriving, numbers wise, especially at mini ages. I don't know how they schools work but if it's like you say then maybe they should look at developing the clubs in these counties if they can't get into the schools. I'm sure most people involved with provincial academies are still only looking at the School's Cup for potential talent though. Doubt any amount of money spent will change that.

The Lost Sheep

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Maybe they should look at spending any extra money on developing the game at schools level beyond the traditional schools. I mentioned this somewhere else a while ago but in Ulster, for example, all the schools who participate in the Ulster School's Cup are from the 6 counties. That's 3 counties worth of talent being ignored, 2 of which have been producing pretty decent athletes for the GAA over the past few years.

I'm sure if you looked at the other provinces too there are counties where kids don't get any real level of competition, if they have school teams at all.

More money should be spent on the clubs where there already is kids playing the sport. That's where most extra resources should go not trying to get schools into the schools cups. We cant just focus on the schools cups

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I can't speak for all counties but I have a couple of young cousins in Donegal who have started playing rugby over the past few years. They play at a local club which was set up a few years ago and is really thriving, numbers wise, especially at mini ages. I don't know how they schools work but if it's like you say then maybe they should look at developing the clubs in these counties if they can't get into the schools. I'm sure most people involved with provincial academies are still only looking at the School's Cup for potential talent though. Doubt any amount of money spent will change that.

Why focus on schools? There is clubs in these areas and Ulster Rugby should restart the Donegal project that they had began 10 years ago. Play on dave Gallaher ramelton link.... Use the clubs in these areas and pump resources into them

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

You may be right but there are a lot of schools including non-fee paying schools involved in rugby these days. An increase in those numbers would be good, but the point I'm making is that there's nowhere for them to go after school if they want to make a career in rugby. There's a massive bottleneck at academy level. That level of the pyramid should be greater, not smaller than the level above it.

There are more schools playing but the kids in those schools play very little rugby. Getting them into clubs where there is more games available to kids, more coaching etc. There is bottleneck and pyramid should be wider but working on the clubs is the way to do it.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Why focus on schools? There is clubs in these areas and Ulster Rugby should restart the Donegal project that they had began 10 years ago. Play on dave Gallaher ramelton link.... Use the clubs in these areas and pump resources into them

As I said, the Schools Cup is a higher standard of competition than you'd get playing against a few local clubs a couple of times a year. The ideal situation would be getting more schools playing rugby at that standard. As was also pointed out some schools may be reluctant to get involved with rugby at all so the immediate priority should be developing the game at club level which could then potentially have a knock on effect in the schools, or at least some schools.

The School's Cup is important because it's a very easy way for talent scouts to see kids playing. I may be wrong but I find it hard to imagine anyone from an AIL club, never mind Ulster themselves, going all the way to Ramelton to see Letterkenny U16's play Ramelton on a Sunday morning on the off chance there might be some talent there when they can just spend a few weeks watching School's Cup in the Spring. There's a few posts in the Ulster thread recently about people from the provincial set up and their attitude towards scouting young players who aren't already at established clubs/schools.