Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

aimee1

b.gud wrote: »

Get your reasoning for leaving him out but for me I'd have Stander in ahead of VDF as he provides better cover across the back row.

Fitzgerald was outstanding at the weekend, and last weekend too, but I'd really like to see a centre combo of McClouskey and Henshaw and have Fitzgerald on the bench instead of Zebo, sorry mods

Scrum half cover it's def between McGrath and Marmion. Marmion has looked really good this year and one particular thing that has impressed me is that his box kicking has really come on. His experience in camp would put him ahead of McGrath for me but would like to see McGrath in the extended squad

Only other change is Muldowney ahead of Foley on the bench. Muldowney has been in super form recently and I think he would be a great addition to the squad.

If ruddock, sob and heaslip is our backrow then i can see Jordi/Henry as bench cover.

b.gud

aimee1 wrote: »

If ruddock, sob and heaslip is our backrow then i can see Jordi/Henry as bench cover.

I'd have VDF ahead of Jordi based on current form, and Stander ahead of both.
Henry I'd be happy with

I'd have Mike McCarthy as first choice lock currently. Form lock in the country as far as I'm concerned.

b.gud

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'd have Mike McCarthy as first choice lock currently. Form lock in the country as far as I'm concerned.

With Connacht tinted glasses I'd say it's Muldowney, but I have to say that I thought McCarthy looked great against Toulon on Saturday. And given his experience with the Irish squad you'd have to say that he'll be in or around the 23

Tomtom364

molloyjh wrote: »

EDIT: I forgot all about Henry. Again. I have some sort of weird mental block when it comes to that guy, and I have no idea why....

Because he isn't a Leinster man?

What I want to see.

McGrath Best Moore
Toner Ryan
Stander Heaslip SOB

Murray Sexton
McCloskey Henshaw
Earls Kearney TOH

Strauss, Cronin, Furlong, Muldowney, Henry, Marmion , Jackson, Fitzgerald


But I think Joe will go for

Healy Best Moore
Toner Ryan
SOB Heaslip Henry

Murray Sexton
Henshaw Payne
Earls Kearney Trimble

Cronin, McGrath, Furlong, Muldowney, Stander , Reddan , Madigan , Fitzgerald

sydthebeat

although aly is playing great stuff, im afraid his ship has passed and we should be blooding younger locks like Dave Foley instead, or even Quin Roux at this stage.

b.gud

sydthebeat wrote: »

although aly is playing great stuff, im afraid his ship has passed and we should be blooding younger locks like Dave Foley instead, or even Quin Roux at this stage.

Roux is out injured at the minute and is likely not gonna be back in time for the 6 N. Foley has already been blooded, if he hadn't had injury I'd say that he would have kicked on but since he came back I don't think he's been firing from what I've seen*

*I don't watch Munster week in week out so I may have just seen the wrong games

OldRio

I think/hope that Joe will pick players on form and not reputation. Some of the provinces are in good form and some not. The same with the players.
4 years to the next World . Time to build.

Hopefully the IRFU will allow this to happen.

whatawaster

Luke Marshall is another whose performances in recent weeks will have put his name back into the frame.

IMO McCloskey should be a certainty to start our opening game. He has it all. What that means for Henshaw, I don't know - but at either 13 or 15 he has to start also imo

Murray/Sexton/Fitzgerald/McCloskey/Henshaw/Trimble/Kearney

Murray/Sexton/Fitzgerald/McCloskey/Marshall/Trimble/Henshaw

Murray/Sexton/Earls/McCloskey/Fitzgerald/Trimble/Henshaw

swiwi_

Hagz wrote: »

Swiwi would be able to set me straight on the matter but I'm fairly sure he was only winging it for NZ because it was the best use of resources. I think he played primarily as a 15 for the Auckland Blues. He's certainly been signed as a 15 for Ulster.

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Yeah he mostly played fullback for the Blues. Dagg and Smith were ahead of him at FB for the All Blacks.

Did cover centre a few times.

I'm surplus to requirements these days Hagz. Now, I just sit a in rocker and recall sepia-toned memories of holding the Kiwi-fort single-handedly :pac:

IMO he is a 11 > 15 > 14 > 13.

I imagine Ulser will look to play him at 15, and he's played there loads for Auckland and the Blues, so to connect this to the Irish thread, Payne may wish to continue at 13.

b.gud

b.gud wrote: »

Roux is out injured at the minute and is likely not gonna be back in time for the 6 N. Foley has already been blooded, if he hadn't had injury I'd say that he would have kicked on but since he came back I don't think he's been firing from what I've seen*

*I don't watch Munster week in week out so I may have just seen the wrong games

Foley's has been a bit powder puff since coming back - squad is out of reach for him at the moment. Toner hasn't been great either, definitely seems on a come down since the world cup.

bilston

It's hard because there are actually a few backs playing very well at the minute. Jackson, McCloskey, Fitzgerald, Marshall and Trimble are all in great form. To be fair I haven't watched Munster or Connacht over the last couple of weeks so can't comment on their players.

Realistically Sexton still starts against Wales, Henshaw should be back so you would imagine that he is nailed on which leaves just one centre spot open. Trimble probably should come in on the wing. The other wing spot depends on whether Fitzgerald gets the 12 shirt with Robbie at 13.

I initially thought McCloskey needs to earn his stripes at training camp but he is just getting better and better. He was unplayable against Toulouse, and given we aren't coming down with big ball carriers I'm coming round to the idea that McCloskey should start.

Marshall is going great guns but needs to keep it up so right now he is probably 4th choicr behind Henshaw, McCloskey and Fitz. Can't forget Payne either obviously.

So without having seen Earls or Zebo lately I'd be thinking...9 Murray, 10 Sexton, 11 Fitzgerald, 12 McCloskey, 13 Henshaw, 14 Trimble, 1 Kearney.

former total

If Henshaw and Payne are both fit, I cannot see any other combination of centres. McCloskey and Fitzgerald are doing well at 12, Marshall looks to be benefitting from a run of games, and that's all great, but Henshaw is a lock and Payne seems to be absolutely central to Joe's game plan.

(Nor will Kearney be dropped to make room for Payne/Henshaw at FB)

There simply will not be a massive cull in the team. There are already jerseys up for grabs with Henderson, POM and Bowe definitely ruled out. I'd be surprised if Joe goes much further than that.

If Payne is back, I'd expect the following team for the Wales game:

McGrath Best Ross
Toner Ryan
Ruddock SOB Heaslip
Murray Sexton
Fitz/Earls Henshaw Payne Trimble
Kearney

Strauss Healy Moore McCarthy Henry AN Other Madigan Earls/Fitz

Nothing too earth-shattering there. However, there are some very injury-prone players there (Sexton, SOB, most of the backs) so who knows?

molloyjh

former total wrote: »

If Henshaw and Payne are both fit, I cannot see any other combination of centres. McCloskey and Fitzgerald are doing well at 12, Marshall looks to be benefitting from a run of games, and that's all great, but Henshaw is a lock and Payne seems to be absolutely central to Joe's game plan.

(Nor will Kearney be dropped to make room for Payne/Henshaw at FB)

There simply will not be a massive cull in the team. There are already jerseys up for grabs with Henderson, POM and Bowe definitely ruled out. I'd be surprised if Joe goes much further than that.

If Payne is back, I'd expect the following team for the Wales game:

McGrath Best Ross
Toner Ryan
Ruddock SOB Heaslip
Murray Sexton
Fitz/Earls Henshaw Payne Trimble
Kearney

Strauss Healy Moore McCarthy Henry AN Other Madigan Earls/Fitz

Nothing too earth-shattering there. However, there are some very injury-prone players there (Sexton, SOB, most of the backs) so who knows?

Payne might be back, but how much game time will he have had? It's gas, before the RWC we were thin when it came to centre. Now we seem to have a good few options. Which is great really.

I do think Ross will be out for a good while the way Leo spoke about the hamstring injury. But again we're finally in a position where we can lose our starting TH and not freak the f*** out about it.

I'd like to see Jackson on the bench because his form has been good recently and I think he offers a lot more at 10 than Madigan does. If you take a back line of 10. Sexton 11. Earls, 12. Fitz, 13. Henshaw, 14. Trimble, 15. Kearney, 22. Jackson, 23. Zebo we have cover across the entire back line. So Madigans versatility becomes less important.

leftleg

any room for mccloskey at 12 in any of the games

molloyjh

leftleg wrote: »

any room for mccloskey at 12 in any of the games

Joe doesn't throw guys into the team straight away. He brings them in and gets them used to what he wants and expects first. There's always been a lot of talk from players about hot exact a guy he is in that regard so players probably need that. I reckon McCloskey will be in camp and might feature off the bench at some stage, but won't get his first start until later in the year. Probably SA.

CatFromHue

Depends on the situation, Keatley was picked ahead of Madigan against Italy last season for example.

former total

molloyjh wrote: »

Payne might be back, but how much game time will he have had? It's gas, before the RWC we were thin when it came to centre. Now we seem to have a good few options. Which is great really.

I do think Ross will be out for a good while the way Leo spoke about the hamstring injury. But again we're finally in a position where we can lose our starting TH and not freak the f*** out about it.

I'd like to see Jackson on the bench because his form has been good recently and I think he offers a lot more at 10 than Madigan does. If you take a back line of 10. Sexton 11. Earls, 12. Fitz, 13. Henshaw, 14. Trimble, 15. Kearney, 22. Jackson, 23. Zebo we have cover across the entire back line. So Madigans versatility becomes less important.

I would not be surprised if Payne is in the Heaslip/SOB/Murray/Sexton bracket of coming straight back into the team regardless of game time. I don't think he should be but I think Joe will get him back in asap.

Forgot Ross was injured actually, but yeah, Moore, White, Furlong - be grand.

I still expect Madigan to be wearing 22, this won't go down well but I remain to be convinced about Jackson.

awec

former total wrote: »

If Henshaw and Payne are both fit, I cannot see any other combination of centres. McCloskey and Fitzgerald are doing well at 12, Marshall looks to be benefitting from a run of games, and that's all great, but Henshaw is a lock and Payne seems to be absolutely central to Joe's game plan.

(Nor will Kearney be dropped to make room for Payne/Henshaw at FB)

There simply will not be a massive cull in the team. There are already jerseys up for grabs with Henderson, POM and Bowe definitely ruled out. I'd be surprised if Joe goes much further than that.

If Payne is back, I'd expect the following team for the Wales game:

McGrath Best Ross
Toner Ryan
Ruddock SOB Heaslip
Murray Sexton
Fitz/Earls Henshaw Payne Trimble
Kearney

Strauss Healy Moore McCarthy Henry AN Other Madigan Earls/Fitz

Nothing too earth-shattering there. However, there are some very injury-prone players there (Sexton, SOB, most of the backs) so who knows?

Be pretty disappointing if we effectively go with the same old selection again.

If the injured, with zero game time Payne gets ahead of McCloskey then there is something very broken in the Ireland setup.

Pick the players who have performed and drop those who haven't.

Centre is one thing, but we need to explore the options at 15.

Stan27

awec wrote: »

Be pretty disappointing if we effectively go with the same old selection again.

If the injured, with zero game time Payne gets ahead of McCloskey then there is something very broken in the Ireland setup.

Pick the players who have performed and drop those who haven't.

Centre is one thing, but we need to explore the options at 15.

Love to see toh get a cap.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

Be pretty disappointing if we effectively go with the same old selection again.

If the injured, with zero game time Payne gets ahead of McCloskey then there is something very broken in the Ireland setup.

Pick the players who have performed and drop those who haven't.

Centre is one thing, but we need to explore the options at 15.

Payne has an edge over McCloskey in that he knows the set-up and the systems. You can't underestimate how important that is. These guys won't get a huge amount of time together in training remember. The problem is a lot of people want youth thrown in and then a perfect performance to boot. They can't have their cake and eat it. Provincial form is one thing but carrying that through to a higher level in an unfamiliar environment is very different. McCloskey should get time in camp and maybe even some time off the bench. Then, when he's gotten comfortable with what Joe wants, he should get a start.

We won't be able to go with the same old selection anyway. We'll probably be missing at least Ross, POC, Henderson, POM and Bowe. If not more. That's a third of the starting team straight away. We'll need to manage that as much as anything else.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

As much as I'd like to see quite a few changes in the starting lineup come February I can't see it happening unless it's forced by injury.

If Payne and Henshaw are both fit they'll start. Same goes for Rob Kearney who has had a hard time staying fit since the WC.

With that in mind I'd go for a Murray, Sexton, Fitzgerald, Henshaw, Payne, Trimble, Rob K starting line up.

Jackson, McCloskey and Gilory on the bench.

If there's any doubts over Kearney's fitness you've got Henshaw and Payne on the pitch who can move to FB with McCloskey fitting in at 12. Fitzgerald can also be brought in off the wing to 12/13 if there needs to be any more changes there.

Can't see it happening though.

former total

awec wrote: »

Be pretty disappointing if we effectively go with the same old selection again.

If the injured, with zero game time Payne gets ahead of McCloskey then there is something very broken in the Ireland setup.

Pick the players who have performed and drop those who haven't.

Centre is one thing, but we need to explore the options at 15.

In fairness, is the same old selection a bad thing? Are there many players who have not performed?

If you exclude the Argentina game, and I don't think that defeat was really down to poor personnel selections, is there a massive problem that needs to be fixed?

I'm not saying that young guys or guys in form should be ignored, just that there isn't a need for a clear-out either.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

former total wrote: »

In fairness, is the same old selection a bad thing? Are there many players who have not performed?

If you exclude the Argentina game, and I don't think that defeat was really down to poor personnel selections, is there a massive problem that needs to be fixed?

I'm not saying that young guys or guys in form should be ignored, just that there isn't a need for a clear-out either.

If you just look at form for Ireland you'd pick an entirely different team than if you're looking at form in the league post World Cup.

aimee1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

As much as I'd like to see quite a few changes in the starting lineup come February I can't see it happening unless it's forced by injury.

If Payne and Henshaw are both fit they'll start. Same goes for Rob Kearney who has had a hard time staying fit since the WC.

With that in mind I'd go for a Murray, Sexton, Fitzgerald, Henshaw, Payne, Trimble, Rob K starting line up.

Jackson, McCloskey and Gilory on the bench.

If there's any doubts over Kearney's fitness you've got Henshaw and Payne on the pitch who can move to FB with McCloskey fitting in at 12. Fitzgerald can also be brought in off the wing to 12/13 if there needs to be any more changes there.

Can't see it happening though.

when are payne and henshaw back from injury. Would love to see Fitz and Henshaw in midfield with earls and trimble on the wings

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

aimee1 wrote: »

when are payne and henshaw back from injury. Would love to see Fitz and Henshaw in midfield with earls and trimble on the wings

I think they're both due back in January. Henshaw's injury was just his hand so hopefully he's been keeping physically fit and should be able to just slot back into the team. Not sure if Payne is due to be able to train come January or back to play in January.

bilston

former total wrote: »

I still expect Madigan to be wearing 22, this won't go down well but I remain to be convinced about Jackson.

It doesn't matter if it goes down well or not, it's your well established POV. Mind you his performances of late suggest you are wrong.

I'm not sure if you watched Ulster yesterday but he was outstanding. He made breaks, he passed beautifully, his kicking was good, his touchfinders were long and always found touch, he tackled like a trojan and to top it off he even stripped the ball from Louis Picamoles. I'm not being funny but versatility is one thing but on form it would be fairly baffling if Jackson wasn't Sexton's back up in the 6Ns. We have plenty of versatile backs anyway.

As for the rest of the team you are probably right. I have come round to the idea of McCloskey starting (I wasn't convinced a few weeks ago) but as Molloy has said Joe likes to break players in gradually, he did it with Henshaw and Henderson, he will probably do the same with McCloskey.

bilston

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I think they're both due back in January. Henshaw's injury was just his hand so hopefully he's been keeping physically fit and should be able to just slot back into the team. Not sure if Payne is due to be able to train come January or back to play in January.

I'm not sure any timeframe was given for Payne's return but apparently he has been involved in the last couple of captain runs at Ulster so he mustn't be far off.

Stheno

McCloskey was the only Irish player named in Midi Olympiques team of the week today

AbusesToilets

Joe has to accommodate some of the new tyros showing some promise. If someone isn't familiar with the set up, bring him in so he can learn. That's a poor argument for not rewarding form.

The incumbent team isn't bad, but we know the their limits at this stage more or less. Shake things up, lets see how much better we can be.

molloyjh

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Joe has to accommodate some of the new tyros showing some promise. If someone isn't familiar with the set up, bring him in so he can learn. That's a poor argument for not rewarding form.

The incumbent team isn't bad, but we know the their limits at this stage more or less. Shake things up, lets see how much better we can be.

But what happens if we bring in a load of young guys and are worse?

The simple fact of the matter is that we don't need a big reshuffle. Give guys time in camp, and if they show up well enough there a few sub appearances. Then get them some starts on the summer and in November. We don't need to do any more than that.

Clegg

Even introducing a few new lads into the squad is enough to freshen things up a bit. They don't all need to play, bar McCloskey who is insuch good form that maybe he demands selection, but having them in there at least challenging for a place in the 23 should be enough. Get Van der Flier and Stander in there. Luke Marshall may get a recall too and I'd be delighted to see that.

former total

bilston wrote: »

It doesn't matter if it goes down well or not, it's your well established POV. Mind you his performances of late suggest you are wrong.

Lol. Guess I'll change the record so.

I hope I'm proved wrong. It's not blue-tinted glasses because I know Madigan is not the complete package, I just question if Jackson is either. Yes, he was great yesterday, but any player can look good in a once-off, I want him to back it up with more performances like that.

kuang1

Would love to see Henshaw at full back. Put Fitz & Payne in the centre. With Mcclosky waiting in the wings to usurp Payne by the time summer comes round.
Trimble and Earls for the wings.

Btw re:Payne being brought straight back in once he returns from injury...Joe left Trimble at home from the WC despite the fact that he was just back from injury in time...not sure he'll put Payne straight in come the 6n...will depend on when exactly he returns to playing competitive rugby.

aimee1

kuang1 wrote: »

Btw re:Payne being brought straight back in once he returns from injury...Joe left Trimble at home from the WC despite the fact that he was just back from injury in time...not sure he'll put Payne straight in come the 6n...will depend on when exactly he returns to playing competitive rugby.

thats why I was asking about when they were due back. Wouldnt be great to have both centres coming in cold after a few months out, especially with fitz and mccloskey in such good form

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

bilston wrote: »

It doesn't matter if it goes down well or not, it's your well established POV. Mind you his performances of late suggest you are wrong.

I'm not sure if you watched Ulster yesterday but he was outstanding. He made breaks, he passed beautifully, his kicking was good, his touchfinders were long and always found touch, he tackled like a trojan and to top it off he even stripped the ball from Louis Picamoles. I'm not being funny but versatility is one thing but on form it would be fairly baffling if Jackson wasn't Sexton's back up in the 6Ns. We have plenty of versatile backs anyway.

The other thing is Madigan has barely played for Leinster since the World Cup. Other years he was usually getting game time in one position or another. Things may change over the festive period and with Leinster's European campaign well and truly over Sexton may be rested a bit but potentially you're talking about leaving a really good in form specialist number 10 out for a guy who gets a 5 minute run out at the end of a match.

The Lost Sheep

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

As much as I'd like to see quite a few changes in the starting lineup come February I can't see it happening unless it's forced by injury.

If Payne and Henshaw are both fit they'll start. Same goes for Rob Kearney who has had a hard time staying fit since the WC.

With that in mind I'd go for a Murray, Sexton, Fitzgerald, Henshaw, Payne, Trimble, Rob K starting line up.

Jackson, McCloskey and Gilory on the bench.

If there's any doubts over Kearney's fitness you've got Henshaw and Payne on the pitch who can move to FB with McCloskey fitting in at 12. Fitzgerald can also be brought in off the wing to 12/13 if there needs to be any more changes there.

Can't see it happening though.

I dont want to see too similar a team to before but your bench? That wont ever happen. Who covers 9?

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Joe has to accommodate some of the new tyros showing some promise. If someone isn't familiar with the set up, bring him in so he can learn. That's a poor argument for not rewarding form.

The incumbent team isn't bad, but we know the their limits at this stage more or less. Shake things up, lets see how much better we can be.

What young players "tyros" have shown they should be picked? Some may well get into extended squad but who are you talking about when you say shake things up?

molloyjh wrote: »

But what happens if we bring in a load of young guys and are worse?

The simple fact of the matter is that we don't need a big reshuffle. Give guys time in camp, and if they show up well enough there a few sub appearances. Then get them some starts on the summer and in November. We don't need to do any more than that.

Would it be a problem if we brought in some younger players for experience etc and had a bad 6N or two but looked long term. That policy has been similar enough to whats been done before and what good has it done?

molloyjh

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Would it be a problem if we brought in some younger players for experience etc and had a bad 6N or two but looked long term. That policy has been similar enough to whats been done before and what good has it done?

We lost 1 game with a chunk of crucial players missing during the RWC and look at some of the reactions. Two of the four provinces are struggling in Europe at the moment (for a number of reasons) and look at the reaction. You'd swear by the media and a lot of fans that the sky is falling in on Irish rugby based on 2 months + 1 game. Imagine Ireland not being conpetitive in the 6 Nations!?

We also need a good 6 Nations for seeding purposes. We're going to struggle with our summer and autumn games so the better we do in Feb/Mar the less pressure that puts us under later in the year.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I dont want to see too similar a team to before but your bench? That wont ever happen. Who covers 9?

Ooops. Brain fart on my part there.

Still go with Jackson and McCloskey though.

The Lost Sheep

molloyjh wrote: »

We lost 1 game with a chunk of crucial players missing during the RWC and look at some of the reactions. Two of the four provinces are struggling in Europe at the moment (for a number of reasons) and look at the reaction. You'd swear by the media and a lot of fans that the sky is falling in on Irish rugby based on 2 months + 1 game. Imagine Ireland not being conpetitive in the 6 Nations!?

We also need a good 6 Nations for seeding purposes. We're going to struggle with our summer and autumn games so the better we do in Feb/Mar the less pressure that puts us under later in the year.

But how can we ever improve if we approach 6 Nations no different to how we always have approached it and achieved what in the world cup?
The reactions are similar in quite a few ways to previous world cups and thats regardless of the injuries. We did have lots of injuries but we were out coached/smarted. well beaten

molloyjh

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

But how can we ever improve if we approach 6 Nations no different to how we always have approached it and achieved what in the world cup?
The reactions are similar in quite a few ways to previous world cups and thats regardless of the injuries. We did have lots of injuries but we were out coached/smarted. well beaten

Are we talking about improving or about blooding younger players? Because the two are not interdependent. In fact they may well be mutually exclusive.

We blood you get players in the summer and autumn games. We blood them as and when they are ready to fit in with the other internationals in the 6 Nations. There aren't many young players who haven't gotten a look in that should so far.

Anyway the RWC is all well and good, but the 6 Nations is our bread and butter. We can't go using that as a development competition. Nor should we.

awec

IMO McCloskey has been so good he is actually impossible to overlook. He's the best 12 in Ireland right now, in top form and looks perfectly built for test rugby.

Pick him and let him show what he can do. None of this bringing him for a camp and ignoring him in favour of players who can't do what he can do.

He's big enough, he's old enough and he's good enough.

CMOTDibbler

awec wrote: »

IMO McCloskey has been so good he is actually impossible to overlook. He's the best 12 in Ireland right now, in top form and looks perfectly built for test rugby.

Pick him and let him show what he can do. None of this bringing him for a camp and ignoring him in favour of players who can't do what he can do.

He's big enough, he's old enough and he's good enough.

You're cueing it up for a good burst of outrage if he doesn't get selected a bit early aren't you?

awec

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

You're cueing it up for a good burst of outrage if he doesn't get selected a bit early aren't you?

Not really outrage, but it would be baffling.

CMOTDibbler

awec wrote: »

Not really outrage, but it would be baffling.

You nearly blew a gasket during the RWC over Henderson and Cave.

I agree it would be surprisingly but I fear for your blood pressure sometimes.

awec

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

You nearly blew a gasket during the RWC over Henderson and Cave.

I agree it would be surprisingly but I fear for your blood pressure sometimes.

Well the Henderson thing was because he was Ireland's best player over the tournament.

Cave I found baffling for a different reason, specifically why he was brought at all. Turned out to be a total waste of a pick when the coach clearly didn't want to use him.

I'm not saying McCloskey should be starting every game but he should find himself with a handful of caps come the end of the 6N and I don't mean 10 minutes off the bench at the end.

bilston

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

You nearly blew a gasket during the RWC over Henderson and Cave.

I agree it would be surprisingly but I fear for your blood pressure sometimes.

Well he was right about Cave!

As for Henderson I shared awec's outrage but in fairness the selection against France worked. I suppose Hendy was always going to be more a like for like replacement for POC rather than Toner.

McCloskey is making it hard to be ignored. After earlier reservations I'd pick him but Joe will probably want him to get up to speed.

former total

The problem is that picking McCloskey means dropping Henshaw. I'd be surprised.

Maybe if Payne is still out.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

former total wrote: »

The problem is that picking McCloskey means dropping Henshaw. I'd be surprised.

Maybe if Payne is still out.

Not necessarily. Henshaw and Payne both play FB. Rob Kearney has been injured more than he's been fit since the WC. Henshaw can play 13. There's a few different options there.

The Rape of Lucretia

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

But how can we ever improve if we approach 6 Nations no different to how we always have approached it and achieved what in the world cup?

Fans outside the inner training and tactics discussion of the squad see the superficial, the team selection, as determining the style and capability of a team. And so frequently are limited to see improvement as changes to the team or squad, or the blooding and development of new talent.

But there is a lot more effort on improvement than that going on behind the scenes, and from that persepective, chopping and changing players can be seen as counterproductive given the training curve new players will need in the systems and methods the coach has developed in other players.

Swirling the blend of players in the hope that a better cocktail will be the result is the old amaeur rugby era.

Which is not to say developing players and new combinations are not part of the method. They are. But its a small element.

Its the one fans see though and feel they can offer and opinion on, debate, and push personal preferences, often not even based on high number of games watching a player and knowing what he was instructed to try to achieve in those games.