Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Gilroy is injured at the moment, although I don't think it's long term. Fractured his eye socket at the weekend.

former total

Herring is probably ahead of the Munster guys if there was a hooking emergency.

Not sure where Michael Bent fits into the scheme of things any more but he's more recently capped than a lot of the props above, likewise McFadden.

connachta

jm08 wrote: »

You could add in
TH: Archer is injured. John Ryan instead.
No 8 is Stander's primary position, not blindside.
Openside: Tommy O'Donnell (due back from injury shortly). van den Flier
Scrumhalf: add in Tomas O'Leary

edit: if you are slotting players in prinary position from an Ireland point of view, Earls should be a centre!

AhYou/White might be in contention for TH, Muldowney/Browne/Dillane for lock, and Marmion who at least matches TOL

Yeah_Right

Nice effort Emmet.

If you're talking about possible names for the squad then Conan and Copeland at 8, JvdF for openside, Cave at centre?

Another go

LooseHead Hooker TightHead Second Row Blindside OpenSide 8 Scrum Half Out Half Wing Centre FB
Buckley Best Ah You Foley Diack SOB Conan Boss Hanrahan Bowe Cave Conway
Cronin Casey Archer Henderson O'Callaghan Henry Copeland Cooney Jackson D.Kearney Henshaw O'Halloran
Healy Cronin Furlong McCarthy O'Mahoney Murphy Heaslip Marmion Keatley Earls Marshall R.Kearney
Kilcoyne Herring Moore Muldowney Ruddock O'Donnell Marshall Madigan Fitzgerald McCloskey
McGrath Scannell Ross O'Connor Stander Van Der Flier Murray Sexton Gilroy Olding
Sherry White Ryan O'Leary Healy Payne
Strauss Toner Reddan McFadden
Tuohy Trimble
Zebo


Strauss & Bowe Status?

Don't see Bent being a runner, he's a useful candidate in a limited numbers squad, but not close enough to the others at LH/TH to be involved when there's no real limits.

CMOTDibbler

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Nice effort Emmet.

If you're talking about possible names for the squad then Conan and Copeland at 8, JvdF for openside, Cave at centre?

Is Conan going to make it for the 6N? Leinster deregistered him for the European Cup, so he's clearly not going to be back for the last of the pool games at least.

bilston

You could probably add Olding as he should be available a few weeks before the 6Ns starts.

shootermacg

What we are really going to miss, not having PoC and PoM this year, si turnovers, they are always good for a few turn-overs.

Best is also a turnover merchant as is o'Brien and JM but losing those two will hurt no end at the breakdown.

bilston

shootermacg wrote: »

What we are really going to miss, not having PoC and PoM this year, si turnovers, they are always good for a few turn-overs.

Best is also a turnover merchant as is o'Brien and JM but losing those two will hurt no end at the breakdown.

Plus we've already lost BOD who was great at it as well.

padser

Honestly I don't get this debate about blooding players and development versus winning matches.

We should play the best players we have available at any point in time. If it's a toss up (or even close to a toss up) absolutely go for the younger player.

If the younger player can't get within "close to a toss up" of a more experienced players than he isn't good enough yet for the Irish team and no one benefits from throwing him into it.

For this reason, there is virtually no trade off between development and winning

shootermacg

I totally agree, if a regular player has a few bad games let him sit it out. Too many copper fastened players in the Irish squad. There's a lot of players thinking of rugby as a career. It should be 10 / 15 years, give it everything, leave it all out on the pitch and get on with the rest of your life.

So you're saying we need Darcy at 12?

The Lost Sheep

padser wrote: »

Honestly I don't get this debate about blooding players and development versus winning matches.

We should play the best players we have available at any point in time. If it's a toss up (or even close to a toss up) absolutely go for the younger player.

If the younger player can't get within "close to a toss up" of a more experienced players than he isn't good enough yet for the Irish team and no one benefits from throwing him into it.

For this reason, there is virtually no trade off between development and winning

That's short term and doesn't aid you when you may have a significant number of injuries in big games like key world cup games like what happened in this years world cup
If you just play the "best players we have available" how do you develop strength in depth/options?

The Lost Sheep

padser wrote: »

Honestly I don't get this debate about blooding players and development versus winning matches.

We should play the best players we have available at any point in time. If it's a toss up (or even close to a toss up) absolutely go for the younger player.

If the younger player can't get within "close to a toss up" of a more experienced players than he isn't good enough yet for the Irish team and no one benefits from throwing him into it.

For this reason, there is virtually no trade off between development and winning

That's short term and doesn't aid you when you may have a significant number of injuries in big games like key world cup games like what happened in this years world cup
If you just play the "best players we have available" how do you develop strength in depth/options?

awec

For all the talk of foreign players holding back young Irish talent there is an issue too with over the hill or underperforming Irish players being continually picked (for both Ireland and their province) instead of giving youth a chance.

This is a problem that Nucifora and the IRFU are overlooking as well.

shootermacg

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

That's short term and doesn't aid you when you may have a significant number of injuries in big games like key world cup games like what happened in this years world cup
If you just play the "best players we have available" how do you develop strength in depth/options?

More turnover in the national squad based on form, bloods more players and actually strengthens the squad.

The Lost Sheep

shootermacg wrote: »

More turnover in the national squad based on form, bloods more players and actually strengthens the squad.

But that isn't true based on whats happened in the past or does happen. We cant play best players that are available each time.
That doesn't blood more players

shootermacg

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

But that isn't true based on whats happened in the past or does happen. We cant play best players that are available each time.
That doesn't blood more players

Tommy Bowe wouldn't have gotten one game in the world cup, going on form.. to name but one..

CatFromHue

awec wrote: »

For all the talk of foreign players holding back young Irish talent there is an issue too with over the hill or underperforming Irish players being continually picked (for both Ireland and their province) instead of giving youth a chance.

This is a problem that Nucifora and the IRFU are overlooking as well.

I'm not really sure if this is true anymore.

For the RWC you could only really say it was at 9 where this could have been the case.

CMOTDibbler

awec wrote: »

For all the talk of foreign players holding back young Irish talent there is an issue too with over the hill or underperforming Irish players being continually picked (for both Ireland and their province) instead of giving youth a chance.

This is a problem that Nucifora and the IRFU are overlooking as well.

Who are these players you speak of? I'm trying to think of young players who've been held back in this way over the last year or so and can't think of any.

molloyjh

CatFromHue wrote: »

I'm not really sure if this is true anymore.

For the RWC you could only really say it was at 9 where this could have been the case.

It's not true, unless you want youth to be given a shot because they are young as opposed to because they are good enough. A huge amount of good work has gone on at Ireland level, it's sad to see so much of it ignored in favour of a bit of outrage.

Hagz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrGDcUoO5Bk

bilston

I'm not a big fan of the Wolfhounds games (at least not on a one off basis), but I wonder if we'll get to see a McCloskey/Ringrose centre pairing against the Saxons this year. That could be worth the admission fee alone...provided they get the ball...

Yeah_Right

There was a black kid playing lock for the U20s this year or last year. Can't remember his name but he looked pretty good. Anyone know who I'm talking about?

case885

Yeah_Right wrote:

There was a black kid playing lock for the U20s this year or last year. Can't remember his name but he looked pretty good. Anyone know who I'm talking about?

Cian romaine I think? Plays with Connacht

Pink Fairy

Yeah_Right wrote: »

There was a black kid playing lock for the U20s this year or last year. Can't remember his name but he looked pretty good. Anyone know who I'm talking about?

You're probably thinking of Ultan Dillane from Tralee, playing with Connacht

Yeah_Right

Yeah it was Romaine I was thinking of from this years U20s. Looked good. How's he progressing?

I see Dillane is signed to Connact till 2017. Is he any good? Haven't seen much of him.

Pink Fairy

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Yeah it was Romaine I was thinking of from this years U20s. Looked good. How's he progressing?

I see Dillane is signed to Connact till 2017. Is he any good? Haven't seen much of him.

He's progressing well, had a good game against Munster and nearly burrowed over for a try.
He still need to fill out a bit, but he's only 22, plenty of time

wp_rathead

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Yeah it was Romaine I was thinking of from this years U20s. Looked good. How's he progressing?

I see Dillane is signed to Connact till 2017. Is he any good? Haven't seen much of him.

Been benching for Eagles - he had serious partnership with Dillane last season though so not sure why he has slipped down to bench
A huge unit - i vividly remember him doing a SBW style offload in an Eagles game last season. Still only Year 1 Academy so time enough for him

Edit: I'm on about Romaine here not Dillane

The Lost Sheep

bilston wrote: »

I'm not a big fan of the Wolfhounds games (at least not on a one off basis), but I wonder if we'll get to see a McCloskey/Ringrose centre pairing against the Saxons this year. That could be worth the admission fee alone...provided they get the ball...

I think they have their uses but as Welsh etc wont re-establish their A teams one off games are all that will occur.

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Yeah it was Romaine I was thinking of from this years U20s. Looked good. How's he progressing?

I see Dillane is signed to Connact till 2017. Is he any good? Haven't seen much of him.

Romaine is in Connacht mainly with Eagles. Ive seen Dillane a lot from age grade up. Really talented footballer - national shot putter as well as the rugby. Saw him play some division 2 AIL this season and he looked ridiculously good at that level...

wp_rathead

Pink Fairy wrote: »

He's progressing well, had a good game against Munster and nearly burrowed over for a try.
He still need to fill out a bit, but he's only 22, plenty of time

Should have seen him 2 Years ago - he was a string of piss
Fecking tank in comparison now

former total

bilston wrote: »

I'm not a big fan of the Wolfhounds games (at least not on a one off basis), but I wonder if we'll get to see a McCloskey/Ringrose centre pairing against the Saxons this year. That could be worth the admission fee alone...provided they get the ball...

No Wolfhounds game this year. It's a shame but just no time.

Pink Fairy

wp_rathead wrote: »

Should have seen him 2 Years ago - he was a string of piss
Fecking tank in comparison now

I did see him
But yes, he's def getting there

irishbucsfan

I wonder will they bother with Madigan as 3rd choice if he's overseas? If not, it'll be interesting to see what they do with that 3rd spot.

Mahatma Geansai

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I wonder will they bother with Madigan as 3rd choice if he's overseas? If not, it'll be interesting to see what they do with that 3rd spot.

I doubt that Madigan will drop out of Irish squads from 2nd choice during the RWC. Joe doesn't appear to be a fan of Jackson and Madigan is easily the most reliable kicker Ireland has available.

irishbucsfan

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

I doubt that Madigan will drop out of Irish squads from 2nd choice during the RWC. Joe doesn't appear to be a fan of Jackson and Madigan is easily the most reliable kicker Ireland has available.

Nucifora seemed to suggest they'd be preferring the guys based in Ireland when asked about it. I wouldn't be surprised if he does drop out.

It's important for the 2nd choice to be in training camps I guess because they're not going to get any gametime to build up familiarity. Given Jackson's form I'd easilly have him ahead of Madigan, but I would have had him ahead of Madigan for a while now.

former total

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I wonder will they bother with Madigan as 3rd choice if he's overseas? If not, it'll be interesting to see what they do with that 3rd spot.

Who else is there? There is quite literally no one.

It will be interesting to see if it affects the pecking order this season alright, but next season it's probably a foregone conclusion.

irishbucsfan

former total wrote: »

Who else is there? There is quite literally no one.

It will be interesting to see if it affects the pecking order this season alright, but next season it's probably a foregone conclusion.

There's Keatley. He started a game ahead of Madigan this year, although it is easy to forget given how his form has gone since.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

There's no question Madigan is the best goal kicker in Ireland but I don't see how that's enough to compensate for the stuff he doesn't do nearly as well as other players. If he was playing at 15 or 12 then maybe you could argue hos kicking ability means he should be in the team but as a 10 no.

Obviously it depends on if you're talking about replacing Sexton on 60 minutes or playing the full 80 but even just based on game time this season Jackson should be #2 in thr pecking order.

b.gud

former total wrote: »

Who else is there? There is quite literally no one.

It will be interesting to see if it affects the pecking order this season alright, but next season it's probably a foregone conclusion.

An outhalf who is mainly used at 12 but the preferred kicker over the 1st choice 10, Craig Ronaldson is the obvious replacement

Mahatma Geansai

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

There's no question Madigan is the best goal kicker in Ireland but I don't see how that's enough to compensate for the stuff he doesn't do nearly as well as other players. If he was playing at 15 or 12 then maybe you could argue hos kicking ability means he should be in the team but as a 10 no.

Obviously it depends on if you're talking about replacing Sexton on 60 minutes or playing the full 80 but even just based on game time this season Jackson should be #2 in thr pecking order.

On form this season, Jackson would be starting for Ireland in the 6N.

thomond2006

Something like this for 6N:

McGrath, Best, Moore, Ryan, Toner, SOB, JVDF, Heaslip;
Murray, Sexton, Trimble, McCloskey, Henshaw, Earls, Kearney

Cronin, Kilcoyne*, Furlong, Foley/AOC, TOD**, Marmion, Jackson, Gilroy

*I'd have Healy but his form is iffy and he went off last night. Kilcoyne has been a brilliant carrier for Munster and I reckon he's a very good option as a substitute.

**Stander will probably be selected but...um...well...

aimee1

thomond2006 wrote: »

Something like this for 6N:

McGrath, Best, Moore, Ryan, Toner, SOB, JVDF, Heaslip;
Murray, Sexton, Trimble, McCloskey, Henshaw, Earls, Kearney

Cronin, Kilcoyne*, Furlong, Foley/AOC, TOD, Marmion, Jackson, Gilroy

*I'd have Healy but his form is iffy and he went off last night. Kilcoyne has been a brilliant carrier for Munster and I reckon he's a very good option as a substitute. Stander will probably be selected but...um...well...

think McCarthy, Ruddock, Fitz will be involved. I would be surprised if VDF gets into a 23 barring injury

jacothelad

former total wrote: »

Who else is there? There is quite literally no one.

It will be interesting to see if it affects the pecking order this season alright, but next season it's probably a foregone conclusion.

Steenson...

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

On form this season, Jackson would be starting for Ireland in the 6N.

True. But I can't see Joe making that leap.

Mahatma Geansai

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

True. But I can't see Joe making that leap.

No he won't. Jackson will be very fortunate if he benches for the big games.

aimee1

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

No he won't. Jackson will be very fortunate if he benches for the big games.

Jackson benched for the first 4 6n games in 2014 so its not out of the question by any means

Pink Fairy

thomond2006 wrote: »

Something like this for 6N:

McGrath, Best, Moore, Ryan, Toner, SOB, JVDF, Heaslip;
Murray, Sexton, Trimble, McCloskey, Henshaw, Earls, Kearney

Cronin, Kilcoyne*, Furlong, Foley/AOC, TOD**, Marmion, Jackson, Gilroy

*I'd have Healy but his form is iffy and he went off last night. Kilcoyne has been a brilliant carrier for Munster and I reckon he's a very good option as a substitute.

**Stander will probably be selected but...um...well...

You'd want to get off the Stander hobbyhorse, its boring now, we have 2 players who are already in the squad because of the rule, if any more come thru via the 3 year rule and they are good enough for selection, fair play to all concerned

thomond2006

Pink Fairy wrote: »

You'd want to get off the Stander hobbyhorse, its boring now, we have 2 players who are already in the squad because of the rule, if any more come thru via the 3 year rule and they are good enough for selection, fair play to all concerned

It's not a Stander hobbyhorse, never was. Fair play to all concerned indeed, since my issue was never with the players but the union(s)/World Rugby. I agree with you though, I'll try to stop mentioning it since it's been done to death.

aimee1

aimee1 wrote: »

Jackson benched for the first 4 6n games in 2014 so its not out of the question by any means

And he's been very good this season so far.