Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

The Rape of Lucretia

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

True. But I can't see Joe making that leap.

Therefore you see Joe making a mistake by not picking him ?

The Rape of Lucretia

thomond2006 wrote: »

Something like this for 6N:

McGrath, Best, Moore, Ryan, Toner, SOB, JVDF, Heaslip;
Murray, Sexton, Trimble, McCloskey, Henshaw, Earls, Kearney

Cronin, Kilcoyne*, Furlong, Foley/AOC, TOD**, Marmion, Jackson, Gilroy

*I'd have Healy but his form is iffy and he went off last night. Kilcoyne has been a brilliant carrier for Munster and I reckon he's a very good option as a substitute.

**Stander will probably be selected but...um...well...

Assuming your team is your guess of Joe's pick given that you give your own modifcation preferences on it, surely it is impossible that he will drop Mads ? Do you really believe he will select Paddy ahead of him ? And Gilroy ? No Geraldsie ? If anything, on recent Joe form, he is likely ahead of Earlsie, let alone Gillie ?

JDF is the one I really could not see him going for this time. Too early.
Stander or Rudser.

The Rape of Lucretia

Harley Uptight Light wrote: »

And he's been very good this season so far.

He has. But the equation remains the same. Jonny is the preferred (though form certainly doesnt deserve it but he still has credit in the bank). But Madser is still the better kicker than all, is Joe's prefered bencher consistently, and did nothing wrong at all yesterday merit demotion.

.ak

For me I see this as our first team due to injuries....

McGrath
Best
Ross
Toner
McCarthy
Ruddock
SOB
Heaslip
Murray
Sexton
Fitzgerald
McCloskey
Henshaw
Trimble
Kearney

Strauss, Healy, Furlong, Ryan, Stander, Reddan, Jackson/Madigan, Earls

Couple of things... Schmidt is very keen about having someone with experience in midfield. A lot of what a centre does is feeling the game, line speed, decision making in both offence and defence, so I can completely see where he's coming from with Payne. However in his absence who else fills that void? Cave maybe but I don't see it. I have a feeling McCloskey will seriously impress if he's brought in for training and get in there. A pretty green midfield but I think Schmidt will gamble on it.

Tight head is another one that's hard to call. I wonder if Ross will even make the squad... For me his still scrummaging well and our set piece is still a weapon so I can see him starting. Furlong for me has been outperforming Moore though... Who's fitness is a big issue IMO.

At lock I can see either McCarthy or Ryan starting... Just gone with McCarthy as I think he's in super form at the moment and we need that bit of dog in the pack.

Ruddock at 6 for me because I can't see stander being dumped into international rugby in the 6n. Stander on the bench to get that token cap to tie him to Ireland. Call me a cynic.

As backup halfbacks I'm not 100% sure. Unfortunately Marmion still hadn't shown us why he should be Ireland no. 2 which is worrying. Personally I think Jackson is the no. 2 fly half but I can see mads getting the nod on versatility.

The Rape of Lucretia

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'll try to stop mentioning it since it's been done to death.

Worth mentioning - its not gone away you know....
Its a troubling problem that is in danger of becoming a bit too prominent.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Therefore you see Joe making a mistake by not picking him ?

Jackson has been the in form 10 in Ireland this season and as big a fan of his as I am I still wouldn't start him over Sexton. So no, in that respect I don't think Joe would be making a mistake by not picking Jackson as our starting 10.

molloyjh

Given injuries to Healy, Ross, Henderson, POM, Payne, Earls and Bowe (that's a serious injury list!).

McGrath Best Moore
Toner Ryan
Ruddock Heaslip SOB

Murray Sexton
Fitzgerald Henshaw
Zebo R Kearney Trimble

Cronin, Kilcoyne, Furlong, McCarthy, Henry, Marmion, Jackson, D Kearney

What is the story with Payne, haven't heard an update on his injury for ages, is he out of the 6N?

Stheno

Harley Uptight Light wrote: »

What is the story with Payne, haven't heard an update on his injury for ages, is he out of the 6N?

On Sky yesterday or the day before as part of the match coverage, he was part of a pile of Ulster players out doing publicity in Belfast city centre, and I'm fairly certain he said during that that he's back in training and getting there.

Zzippy

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Worth mentioning - its not gone away you know....
Its a troubling problem that is in danger of becoming a bit too prominent.

How is it a problem? There are a very limited number of project players, and only some of them will make it. Playing with these players at club level can only improve the young Irish talent coming through. Look at the young centres coming through at Ulster playing with Payne. Nathan White is pushing young props in Connacht to improve, and they are. Provinces have always benefited from foreign players coming in with new ideas, higher expectations and standards, even if they never play for Ireland they have improved the standard of rugby here. We have only 2 or 3 players in a matchday 23 who are IQ by residency, that leaves 20-21 who are Irish developed. What is too prominent in your book?

wp_rathead

Zzippy wrote: »

How is it a problem? There are a very limited number of project players, and only some of them will make it. Playing with these players at club level can only improve the young Irish talent coming through. Look at the young centres coming through at Ulster playing with Payne. Nathan White is pushing young props in Connacht to improve, and they are. Provinces have always benefited from foreign players coming in with new ideas, higher expectations and standards, even if they never play for Ireland they have improved the standard of rugby here. We have only 2 or 3 players in a matchday 23 who are IQ by residency, that leaves 20-21 who are Irish developed. What is too prominent in your book?

Wanting Foreign Players In Provinces =/= Wanting Foreign Players Play for National Side

Delighted to see likes of Payne, Heenan, Bundee and Stander contribute to the clubs but I personally don't like the whole idea of project players with intention of making them Irish Internationals..

Pink Fairy

wp_rathead wrote: »

Wanting Foreign Players In Provinces =/= Wanting Foreign Players Play for National Side

Delighted to see likes of Payne, Heenan, Bundee and Stander contribute to the clubs but I personally don't like the whole idea of project players with intention of making them Irish Internationals..

Frankly, if they are here to play and commit to playing in the arse end of Cork or Galway for 3 years then they should be allowed pick the fckin team

former total

Just thinking about Madigan again, he's definitely going to suffer now that IRFU have followed some of the other tier 1 countries in scheduling a money-grubbing test outside the international window.

It means whatever happens with injury, form and selection, he'll definitely miss the opening autumn test this year. And we know that Joe likes continuity so he could find it hard to get back in.

aimee1

former total wrote: »

Just thinking about Madigan again, he's definitely going to suffer now that IRFU have followed some of the other tier 1 countries in scheduling a money-grubbing test outside the international window.

It means whatever happens with injury, form and selection, he'll definitely miss the opening autumn test this year. And we know that Joe likes continuity so he could find it hard to get back in.

Do we have 4 games next november?

bilston

aimee1 wrote: »

Do we have 4 games next november?

We are confirmed as playing NZ, Australia and Canada at the Aviva but are allegedly going to be playing NZ in Chicago as well at the start of November but that's not confirmed yet.

flangemeistro

aimee1 wrote: »

Do we have 4 games next november?

Ya I think it's Canada-All Blacks-Australia-All Blacks.

Yeah_Right

I thought all the tests in November were in the IRB window. When Wales scheduled an extra one, wasn't that the fifth for them and was in December?

irishbucsfan

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I thought all the tests in November were in the IRB window. When Wales scheduled an extra one, wasn't that the fifth for them and was in December?

It's the 4th game that's outside the window. It's the Kiwis insatiable lust for cash that's causing all of our problems.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's the 4th game that's outside the window. It's the Kiwis insatiable lust for cash that's causing all of our problems.

Is it NZ at home or NZ in Chicago that's outside the window? Seems a weird situation to be in that a home match against the World Champions is essentially meaningless. Or is it still an official test if it's outside the window?

Yeah_Right

What are the official test windows? I always thought it was June and November plus the 6Nations and the RC. I did a Google and it mentions that the windows are only 3 weeks but I couldn't find dates.

irishbucsfan

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Is it NZ at home or NZ in Chicago that's outside the window? Seems a weird situation to be in that a home match against the World Champions is essentially meaningless. Or is it still an official test if it's outside the window?

It's an official test. The game that consigned Wales to be 3rd seeds at the last world cup was outside the window.

The one outside the window is in Chicago I think?

irishbucsfan

Yeah_Right wrote: »

What are the official test windows? I always thought it was June and November plus the 6Nations and the RC. I did a Google and it mentions that the windows are only 3 weeks but I couldn't find dates.

I think the dates are just decided every year by World Rugby and then they notify the Unions?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's an official test. The game that consigned Wales to be 3rd seeds at the last world cup was outside the window.

The one outside the window is in Chicago I think?

The NZ match in Chicago is first, the 5th of November and then the one at home is the 19th of November. Or that's what was reported a few weeks ago anyway. There's Canada in between and then Australia on the 26th.

Some Yoke

Are Ireland Wolfhounds playing this year? If so: 1. Buckley 2. Sherry? 3. Furlong 4. Muldowny 5. O' Connor 6. O' Donoghue 7. Van Der flier 8. ? 9. Marmion/Mcgrath 10. JJ/Carty 11/14. any number of wings to pick from. 12. McCloskey 13. Ringrose/Luke MArshall 15. O'Halloran

The Lost Sheep

Some Yoke wrote: »

Are Ireland Wolfhounds playing this year? If so: 1. Buckley 2. Sherry? 3. Furlong 4. Muldowny 5. O' Connor 6. O' Donoghue 7. Van Der flier 8. ? 9. Marmion/Mcgrath 10. JJ/Carty 11/14. any number of wings to pick from. 12. McCloskey 13. Ringrose/Luke MArshall 15. O'Halloran

Wolfhounds are not playing this year as there isn't room in season for a game considering the world cup.

b.gud

Some Yoke wrote: »

Are Ireland Wolfhounds playing this year? If so: 1. Buckley 2. Sherry? 3. Furlong 4. Muldowny 5. O' Connor 6. O' Donoghue 7. Van Der flier 8. ? 9. Marmion/Mcgrath 10. JJ/Carty 11/14. any number of wings to pick from. 12. McCloskey 13. Ringrose/Luke MArshall 15. O'Halloran

I know they're not playing but would have to say it would be Masterson at 8

dtpc191991

In a year or two we will have good depth at centre and serious selection headache. We eill have McCloskey, Henshaw and Ringrose duking it out for the top spot with good backups in Payne, Marshall, Fitzgerald. and Olding when he us fit. Choosing between those top three will be seriously hard, thoughts on who you guys think will be the starting pair come 2019??

The Rape of Lucretia

dtpc191991 wrote: »

In a year or two we will have good depth at centre and serious selection headache. We eill have McCloskey, Henshaw and Ringrose duking it out for the top spot with good backups in Payne, Marshall, Fitzgerald. and Olding when he us fit. Choosing between those top three will be seriously hard, thoughts on who you guys think will be the starting pair come 2019??

Stuie and Rosie. The most natural 12, 13 combo coming on stream.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

dtpc191991 wrote: »

In a year or two we will have good depth at centre and serious selection headache. We eill have McCloskey, Henshaw and Ringrose duking it out for the top spot with good backups in Payne, Marshall, Fitzgerald. and Olding when he us fit. Choosing between those top three will be seriously hard, thoughts on who you guys think will be the starting pair come 2019??

By 2019 Fitzgerald and Payne will be 31 and 34 respectively. While not entirely over the hill I would hope we would have younger backup having come through by then.

dtpc191991

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

By 2019 Fitzgerald and Payne will be 31 and 34 respectively. While not entirely over the hill I would hope we would have younger backup having come through by then.

Marshall and Olding will be the best bet if they can get enough gametime.

Stan27

My team for 1st 6n match

-McGrath (like to see Buckley get one cap off the bench some time in the comp)
Best
Moore
-toner/ Ryan (like to see dillane and o Connor on the training squad)
-Ruddock/heislip/o brien(stander in the bench)
Murray (marmian on the bench)
Sexton (Jackson in the bench)
-mccloskey /Marshall(playing great at 13)
Zebo and Trimble
-toh

Then a lot of lads like henshaw come in when they get over their injurys.
Strong team with some youth

bilston

If they are both fit does anyone seriously believe the centres will be anything other than Henshaw and Payne?

Henshaw we know will be back, Payne appears likely to be back.

LHP is possibly up for grabs between McGrath and Healy
Hooker is nailed on to be Best
THP I think will be Ross because of the huge loss of experience suffered elsewhere in the pack
One Lock is nailed on to be Toner with most likely Ryan alongside with McCarthy benching.
O'Brien and Heaslip are locked in at 7 and 8. Ruddock has to be the heavy favourite at 6.
Murray and Sexton will be 9 & 10
If fit Henshaw and Payne will be the centres
If fit Kearney starts at FB
The wings are wide open, with Trimble, Fitzgerald and Earls the most likely candidates.

Anything else will be a bit of a surprise.

I will say this though I expect a fair bit of fresh blood in the extended squad with McCloskey, Ringrose, Van Der Flier, O'Halloran, Dillane, a return for Marshall and maybe even O'Connor real options now.

Zzippy

bilston wrote: »

If they are both fit does anyone seriously believe the centres will be anything other than Henshaw and Payne?

Henshaw we know will be back, Payne appears likely to be back.

LHP is possibly up for grabs between McGrath and Healy
Hooker is nailed on to be Best
THP I think will be Ross because of the huge loss of experience suffered elsewhere in the pack
One Lock is nailed on to be Toner with most likely Ryan alongside with McCarthy benching.
O'Brien and Heaslip are locked in at 7 and 8. Ruddock has to be the heavy favourite at 6.
Murray and Sexton will be 9 & 10
If fit Henshaw and Payne will be the centres
If fit Kearney starts at FB
The wings are wide open, with Trimble, Fitzgerald and Earls the most likely candidates.

Anything else will be a bit of a surprise.

I will say this though I expect a fair bit of fresh blood in the extended squad with McCloskey, Ringrose, Van Der Flier, O'Halloran, Dillane, a return for Marshall and maybe even O'Connor real options now.

Don't think Ross will be back from injury in time. White/Moore in his place.

stephen_n

We could well see SOB at 6 to accommodate Henry and Ruddock on the bench.

Mahatma Geansai

stephen_n wrote: »

We could well see SOB at 6 to accommodate Henry and Ruddock on the bench.

Stander won't miss out.

Journeyman_1

The big question for me is: Will Stander be this years Zebo?

Bonus points for: Will Zebo also be this years Zebo?

aimee1

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Stander won't miss out.

he will defo be in the extended squad but I am not so sure he will make the 23 on a regular basis in the 6n this time around

irishbucsfan

aimee1 wrote: »

he will defo be in the extended squad but I am not so sure he will make the 23 on a regular basis in the 6n this time around

I'd be surprised if he isn't in the 23. Especially in the absence of POM.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

When is the first training camp? France named a 30 man squad for their first camp yesterday.

aimee1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

When is the first training camp? France named a 30 man squad for their first camp yesterday.

next week by all accounts

aimee1

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'd be surprised if he isn't in the 23. Especially in the absence of POM.

I think he will be in or around the 23 but im not sure he will be in each one, we have seen this from JS before of selecting his bench based on stuff only he and the other coaches know etc. I reckon Ruddock, Henry, SOB and Heaslip [all injury permitting of course] might be the preferred options to begin with. Just a hunch more then anything

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

aimee1 wrote: »

next week by all accounts

Do we actually name the training camp players or is it usually just any media there report who is it isn't there.

aimee1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Do we actually name the training camp players or is it usually just any media there report who is it isn't there.

dont recall us every naming a group for camp but its usually gets into the media who is present

bilston

Zzippy wrote: »

Don't think Ross will be back from injury in time. White/Moore in his place.

Right enough. Forgot about that!

bilston

aimee1 wrote: »

next week by all accounts

Not ideal for Ulster and Munster given we both have big European games next weekend.

awec

There is a camp on Sunday but it's only a 24 hour get together as far as I know.

In which case it shouldn't affect selections this weekend or next.

bilston

awec wrote: »

There is a camp on Sunday but it's only a 24 hour get together as far as I know.

In which case it shouldn't affect selections this weekend or next.

Good to hear, plus isn't the Oyonnax game on the Sunday?

awec

bilston wrote: »

Good to hear, plus isn't the Oyonnax game on the Sunday?

I think the camp is this Sunday after the Munster game.

There's no way the IRFU deprive a province of internationals for a European game next weekend.

phog

awec wrote: »

I think the camp is this Sunday after the Munster game.

There's no way the IRFU deprive a province of internationals for a European game next weekend.

I've heard the 24hour camp is not calling up players that Ulster & Munster can use next weekend in their European games. Injured players from both provinces might get the call up to be involved in the group think.

bilston

phog wrote: »

I've heard the 24hour camp is not calling up players that Ulster & Munster can use next weekend in their European games. Injured players from both provinces might get the call up to be involved in the group think.

So it's basically a Leinster training camp?

No change there then:D