Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

irishbucsfan

Pink Fairy wrote: »

I don't think so to be truthful. His game has changed, anybody can see that, he does what he's asked in the Ireland setup, he could be a terrific attacking FB option there, he can fit in on the wing and work his socks off as is required and let the scoring up to others in the side perhaps.
But when he comes back to Munster he plays slightly differently, his game has changed, better for Ireland, not so much for Munsters setup, still and all, he's our record league scorer and almost top in the pro era, not too bad for someone bang out of form

Do you really think he's that one dimensional? He had weaknesses, he has improved in some of those areas. He's still dangerous with ball in hand, as hes' shown. Just because Munster struggle to use him in the same way they did under Penney doesn't mean Schmidt is at fault.

Pink Fairy

I'd agree Hagz, played like Gilroy for instance will flourish at Ulster, but won't make a squad under JS, its not a critiscm, its just a cold hard truth I think

irishbucsfan

Hagz wrote: »

It has long been my suspicion that a Joe Schmidt coached side is one that is equipped with very specific and detailed structures/tactics and that is expected to stay loyal to those structures/tactics. I don't think it is an environment in which players are really coached to play instinctively or given a great deal of licence to do so. Looking specifically at Leinster, I think Matt O'Connor tried to foster a more natural playing environment and I think a major part of his struggle was getting the players to make that transition smoothly and quick enough.

It has proved to be an extremely successful coaching style that has undermined opposition time and time again, but I can completely understand how it doesn't play to some player's strengths. I think it's a coaching style that the likes of Fergus McFadden, Gordon D'Arcy, Andrew Trimble etc. really flourish in, but it might not be ideal for a player of Zebo's nature. But an environment that gets the best out of everyone is pretty unrealistic.

That would explain why someone like Zebo might struggle to perform for Schmidt. But why would it explain why he'd then come back to Munster and struggle? That's just scapegoating for a brief loss of form.

When he made that break down the wing against Romania and nearly scored the try of the tournament he certainly didn't look like he had lost his attacking ability.

Pink Fairy

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Do you really think he's that one dimensional? He had weaknesses, he has improved in some of those areas. He's still dangerous with ball in hand, as hes' shown. Just because Munster struggle to use him in the same way they did under Penney doesn't mean Schmidt is at fault.

Ah look, I've said before I'm not blaming JS, nobody is. But if you want to play for Ireland, you play his way, and that's it.
He can't be used the same way at Munster anymore as his game has changed, his body shape has changed, he's bulkier and does some things a lot better now than he ever did under Penny, he doesn't hug the touchline anymore, he comes inside to help out defensively and receive the ball and take it into contact. That's not a bad thing, but its still not what a lot if people in Munster want to see from Zebo, we want him on the wing, receiving ball at pace and jinking down the touchline, its not going to happen anytime soon, and we accept it.

aimee1

Pink Fairy wrote: »

I don't think so to be truthful. His game has changed, anybody can see that, he does what he's asked in the Ireland setup, he could be a terrific attacking FB option there, he can fit in on the wing and work his socks off as is required and let the scoring up to others in the side perhaps.
But when he comes back to Munster he plays slightly differently, his game has changed, better for Ireland, not so much for Munsters setup, still and all, he's our record league scorer and almost top in the pro era, not too bad for someone bang out of form

so he is munsters record scorer in the pro12 but JS has ruined him? How does that work?

Other players have transitioned from country to club this season after a summer/autumn with ireland [some didnt make RWC squad] and played very well. If Zebo is out of form or not playing well that could be because of munster/zebo issues and not JS.

Maybe if Saili passed the ball once in a while a Munster winger might score a try

aimee1

Pink Fairy wrote: »

Ah look, I've said before I'm not blaming JS, nobody is. But if you want to play for Ireland, you play his way, and that's it.
He can't be used the same way at Munster anymore as his game has changed, his body shape has changed, he's bulkier and does some things a lot better now than he ever did under Penny, he doesn't hug the touchline anymore, he comes inside to help out defensively and receive the ball and take it into contact. That's not a bad thing, but its still not what a lot if people in Munster want to see from Zebo, we want him on the wing, receiving ball at pace and jinking down the touchline, its not going to happen anytime soon, and we accept it.

what Zebo does at munster is down to zebo and foley. Nobody else

Pink Fairy

aimee1 wrote: »

so he is munsters record scorer in the pro12 but JS has ruined him? How does that work?

Other players have transitioned from country to club this season after a summer/autumn with ireland [some didnt make RWC squad] and played very well. If Zebo is out of form or not playing well that could be because of munster/zebo issues and not JS.

Maybe if Saili passed the ball once in a while a Munster winger might score a try

Where did i say JS ruined him, stop making stuff up

aimee1

Pink Fairy wrote: »

Where did i say JS ruined him, stop making stuff up

come on read between the lines. The consensus is Zebo isnt so good at munster because of JS. Which is utter nonsense

Pink Fairy

aimee1 wrote: »

come on read between the lines. The consensus is Zebo isnt so good at munster because of JS. Which is utter nonsense

I'd say you're reading between the wrong lines

former total

Watching Zebo over the last 12 months, he doesn't seem to have blinding pace at all. He's not slow but wouldn't stand out as particularly fast either.

Discuss.

irishbucsfan

Pink Fairy wrote: »

I'd say you're reading between the wrong lines

I think it's this line.

jm08 wrote: »

Joe's coaching has turned him into this.

Pink Fairy

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think it's this line.

So one person's opinion on here is "general comsesus"? That's a bit rubbish

Pink Fairy

former total wrote: »

Watching Zebo over the last 12 months, he doesn't seem to have blinding pace at all. He's not slow but wouldn't stand out as particularly fast either.

Discuss.

You need a bigger spoon ya fecker

aimee1

Pink Fairy wrote: »

So one person's opinion on here is "general comsesus"? That's a bit rubbish

well the argument is JS is to blame for Zebo's perceived poor form despite JS not having coached Zebo for near on 3 months.

"Joe's coaching has turned him into this" was where this argument began.

There is no evidence that JS is to blame when other players who spent the summer/autumn [some both] in the Ireland camp and have returned to their province and played very well. They have adapted. This suggests they are far more adaptable to the modern way of swapping between the two different coaching setups.

If Zebo cannot adapt, or is doing different things now at Munster compared to past seasons then thats down to the player himself and his coach at munster.

jm08

aimee1 wrote: »

But your blaming JS for Zebo's poor recent form when he has been coached exclusively by munster since mid october. Other players have played well at their provinces since then so the "its all joe's fault' argument is bull. I would say his poor form for munster is more down to his own mind over his future and munsters backline being a shambles

Andrew trimble has been flying lately. Fitz too. Seems they are capable of switching between club and country requirements quite well. There are others too

Edit - maybe if Saili tried to pass the ball once in a while zebo might get a chance to shine

Trimble or Fitz didn't have to change how they played. If Zebo tried that flick he did when playing against Wales, he would be dropped by Schmidt for the next game. As Penney posted on Twitter, there are brakes being put on Zebo.

Apart from anything else it must be pretty galling to have not been given any opportunity to stake a claim in his primary position of a winger for the World Cup.

Pink Fairy

aimee1 wrote: »

well the argument is JS is to blame for Zebo's perceived poor form despite JS not having coached Zebo for near on 3 months.

"Joe's coaching has turned him into this" was where this argument began.

There is no evidence that JS is to blame when other players who spent the summer/autumn [some both] in the Ireland camp and have returned to their province and played very well. They have adapted. This suggests they are far more adaptable to the modern way of swapping between the two different coaching setups.

If Zebo cannot adapt, or is doing different things now at Munster compared to past seasons then thats down to the player himself and his coach at munster.

No, sorry, so much wrong here that it beggars belief.

jm08

aimee1 wrote: »

well the argument is JS is to blame for Zebo's perceived poor form despite JS not having coached Zebo for near on 3 months.

"Joe's coaching has turned him into this" was where this argument began.

There is no evidence that JS is to blame when other players who spent the summer/autumn [some both] in the Ireland camp and have returned to their province and played very well. They have adapted. This suggests they are far more adaptable to the modern way of swapping between the two different coaching setups.

If Zebo cannot adapt, or is doing different things now at Munster compared to past seasons then thats down to the player himself and his coach at munster.

I can think of a few players who have been playing like drains (or injured) from the World Cup. Apart from Luke Fitz who has been playing well?

CMOTDibbler

Hagz wrote: »

It has long been my suspicion that a Joe Schmidt coached side is one that is equipped with very specific and detailed structures/tactics and that is expected to stay loyal to those structures/tactics. I don't think it is an environment in which players are really coached to play instinctively or given a great deal of licence to do so. Looking specifically at Leinster, I think Matt O'Connor tried to foster a more natural playing environment and I think a major part of his struggle was getting the players to make that transition smoothly and quick enough.

It has proved to be an extremely successful coaching style that has undermined opposition time and time again, but I can completely understand how it doesn't play to some player's strengths. I think it's a coaching style that the likes of Fergus McFadden, Gordon D'Arcy, Andrew Trimble etc. really flourish in, but it might not be ideal for a player of Zebo's nature. But an environment that gets the best out of everyone is pretty unrealistic.

I think people are relying too much on the Heaslip "robotic" comment with regard to Joe Schmidt.

Joe brought three things to Leinster when he arrived:
1. Better ball handling skills and accuracy: Passing in front of the man, passing more accurately and passing at the right time to fix a defender.
2. A higher work ethic: Every player on the pitch was expected to be always doing something to help the team effort. Off the ball was especially important and defensively everyone was expected to ruck, not just the forwards.
3. A much higher level of analysis: Oppositions were scrutinised heavily for weaknesses down to the individual players and moves were designed to exploit those. The scrutiny extended to the Leinster team and regardless of their involvement each player was asked what they were doing to help the team at any point in the game.

None of this meant that the players had to play to a set plan and couldn't deviate. there would be many different options and sometimes they worked and sometimes they didn't but there was always an ability to see what was there and play accordingly. Leinster under Joe Schmidt could ship points as much as the next team, but it never meant that the game was over if they went behind. That ability to come from behind and win was one of the hallmarks of Leinster under Schmidt.

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If Payne is injured then I absolutely think McCloskey is the next best option.

As for him slotting into a team that he's never worked with and at a level he's never played at before, Henshaw did a pretty decent job of it and he was playing in a position he'd hardly, if ever, played. In the absence of Payne I'd definitely go with McCloskey.

Henshaw spent Bod's final 6 nations in carton and as travelling sub without playing.

CMOTDibbler

jm08 wrote: »

I can think of a few players who have been playing like drains (or injured) from the World Cup. Apart from Luke Fitz who has been playing well?

There aren't that many who have been playing at all since the world cup because of injury.

But Keith Earls, Jack McGrath, Jamie Heaslip, Sean O'Brien, Rory Best, Eoin Reddan just to name a few.

jm08

Hagz wrote: »

It has long been my suspicion that a Joe Schmidt coached side is one that is equipped with very specific and detailed structures/tactics and that is expected to stay loyal to those structures/tactics. I don't think it is an environment in which players are really coached to play instinctively or given a great deal of licence to do so. Looking specifically at Leinster, I think Matt O'Connor tried to foster a more natural playing environment and I think a major part of his struggle was getting the players to make that transition smoothly and quick enough.

It has proved to be an extremely successful coaching style that has undermined opposition time and time again, but I can completely understand how it doesn't play to some player's strengths. I think it's a coaching style that the likes of Fergus McFadden, Gordon D'Arcy, Andrew Trimble etc. really flourish in, but it might not be ideal for a player of Zebo's nature. But an environment that gets the best out of everyone is pretty unrealistic.

You make the point much better than I did. Schmidt's coaching philosophy does not get the best out of Zebo. Just like Schmidt will get more out of Trimble than he would out of Gilroy.

jm08

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

There aren't that many who have been playing at all since the world cup because of injury.

But Keith Earls, Jack McGrath, Jamie Heaslip, Sean O'Brien, Rory Best, Eoin Reddan just to name a few.

Very few of the backs are playing well - Murray, sexton, D & R Kearney have all been in poor form.

aimee1

jm08 wrote: »

I can think of a few players who have been playing like drains (or injured) from the World Cup. Apart from Luke Fitz who has been playing well?

Most of the leinster contingent have come back and have done well. Leinster are 2nd in the league, won 6 in a row and despite some poor euro results the performances havent been without positives. All that under a new coaching ticket for the players to adapt to points to them playing well to a point.

Sexton's form has been off but that was the same in the RWC to a degree.

The Munster players went back to a coach they had last season. So unless Foley completely changed his setup with regard to tactics/gameplan they went back to a familiar environment and have been in poor form.

Ulster have had a decent run lately until yesterday under a new coach since the RWC finished. Some of the Ulster players were playing quite well, Trimble was in ireland camp all summer, Cave played quite well in a few games I saw in october/november and Jackson has been playing very well. Rory Best too.

shootermacg

The one major weakness in Zebo's game for Munster is his absolute greed. He often turns up on the opposite wing looking for easy tries. That's terrible for a back 3 player.

Munster have been raped repeatedly on his wing because he's under a ruck on the right wing. I blame Foley for not beating him with a stick! Ball chasing is headless chicken stuff, so I can well understand JS steering clear.

aimee1

Pink Fairy wrote: »

No, sorry, so much wrong here that it beggars belief.

so much so you didnt bother with any counter argument?

Pink Fairy

aimee1 wrote: »

so much so you didnt bother with any counter argument?

Because you ignored everything I wrote and just went on about your don't blame Joe, blame Axel, when in fact, blame is not being assigned by me to anybody;

CMOTDibbler

jm08 wrote: »

Very few of the backs are playing well - Murray, sexton, D & R Kearney have all been in poor form.

Clearly you didn't see the Leinster v Connacht match. Dave and Rob Kearney both played extremely well.

sydthebeat

So being told to work harder has ruined zebos form.

Mein gott.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

jm08 wrote: »

I can think of a few players who have been playing like drains (or injured) from the World Cup. Apart from Luke Fitz who has been playing well?

Leinster have started to look like a proper team again the past few weeks but looking at the whole season the standout Irish qualified performances have been from players who weren't at the World Cup. If you were picking the
backs on form alone Trimble and McCloskey would be first on the teamsheet.

The Rape of Lucretia

jm08 wrote: »

If Zebo tried that flick he did when playing against Wales, he would be dropped by Schmidt for the next game.

He wouldnt have dropped him.
But explained to him how he needs to react faster to other players, and put himself in better positions to help the team, in that case, getting closer to Heaslip and holding his pace to avoid getting ahead of the pass from a slower player. And so would not have had to rely on his admittedly fine athleticism to recover the situation.
He would have been given a work on to study Dave K or McFadden and practice how it would have been a better play to score a 'boring' Dave K or McFadden try picking up an easy off load and trotting in unopposed, without relying on a bit-of-magic or Z-factor that is a low percentage success.

aimee1

Pink Fairy wrote: »

Because you ignored everything I wrote and just went on about your don't blame Joe, blame Axel, when in fact, blame is not being assigned by me to anybody;

Pink Fairy wrote: »

I don't think so to be truthful. His game has changed, anybody can see that, he does what he's asked in the Ireland setup, he could be a terrific attacking FB option there, he can fit in on the wing and work his socks off as is required and let the scoring up to others in the side perhaps.
But when he comes back to Munster he plays slightly differently, his game has changed, better for Ireland, not so much for Munsters setup, still and all, he's our record league scorer and almost top in the pro era, not too bad for someone bang out of form

You clearly are saying he has changed his game because of ireland, when he has actually been asked to improve areas of his game. If Munster cant get the best out of him then thats Munsters issue, not down to JS. You are blaming JS either directly or indirectly when you imply Munster have a player who isnt playing so well because he changed for ireland.

JS played Fitz as a wing, Leinster play him in the centre and he has been the stand out performer in the two games v Toulon against Nonu.

jm08

aimee1 wrote: »

Most of the leinster contingent have come back and have done well. Leinster are 2nd in the league, won 6 in a row and despite some poor euro results the performances havent been without positives. All that under a new coaching ticket for the players to adapt to points to them playing well to a point.

Sexton's form has been off but that was the same in the RWC to a degree.

The Munster players went back to a coach they had last season. So unless Foley completely changed his setup with regard to tactics/gameplan they went back to a familiar environment and have been in poor form.

Ulster have had a decent run lately until yesterday under a new coach since the RWC finished. Some of the Ulster players were playing quite well, Trimble was in ireland camp all summer, Cave played quite well in a few games I saw in october/november and Jackson has been playing very well. Rory Best too.

Leinster are the business at the moment. Pity they are out of Europe and had such a poor showing v Wasps.

As for Munster - injuries to key players (Pom & TOD) and poor form from players like Murray are more to blame for munster's poor form than Simon Zebo.

jm08

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

He wouldnt have dropped him.
But explained to him how he needs to react faster to other players, and put himself in better positions to help the team, in that case, getting closer to Heaslip and holding his pace to avoid getting ahead of the pass from a slower player. And so would not have had to rely on his admittedly fine athleticism to recover the situation.
He would have been given a work on to study Dave K or McFadden and practice how it would have been a better play to score a 'boring' Dave K or McFadden try picking up an easy off load and trotting in unopposed, without relying on a bit-of-magic or Z-factor that is a low percentage success.

We have not seen too many 'boring' d Kearney tries to actually get bored by them.:)

aimee1

jm08 wrote: »

Leinster are the business at the moment. Pity they are out of Europe and had such a poor showing v Wasps.

As for Munster - injuries to key players (Pom & TOD) and poor form from players like Murray are more to blame for munster's poor form than Simon Zebo.

Ive clearly acknowledged that the european results were poor but there was positives from how Leinster performed post wasps. Leinster have had injuries too. Sexton hasnt been 100%, SOB was out for about 5 weeks, Teo and RK have had minor injuries. Strauss and McCarthy have had concussion injuries too from the Wasps game. So despite injuries to key men they have delivered in pro12 and provided enough in defeat against Bath and Toulon to be positive about the future. All this while integrating 20 players from RWC to Province, with a brand new coaching setup to learn along the way.

I never said Zebo was responsible for Munsters poor form, but that Zebo/Munster/Foley are responsible for not getting the best out of Zebo in a coaching environment he was involved in during the 2014-15 season.

jm08

shootermacg wrote: »

The one major weakness in Zebo's game for Munster is his absolute greed. He often turns up on the opposite wing looking for easy tries. That's terrible for a back 3 player.

Munster have been raped repeatedly on his wing because he's under a ruck on the right wing. I blame Foley for not beating him with a stick! Ball chasing is headless chicken stuff, so I can well understand JS steering clear.

That is a nonsense interpretation of Zebo popping up all over the place. He has been told to do that as he used be criticised for not coming in off his wing and not hitting enough rucks.

Munster really miss Felix Jones this season. He organised the backs really well and was a brilliant defender. Conway has a bit of work to do yet from that point of view.

phog

Some of you have just made one poster very happy and probably annoyed the crap of many more.

Tox56

jm08 wrote: »

Very few of the backs are playing well - Murray, sexton, D & R Kearney have all been in poor form.

All of those players except Murray have played under Schmidt for years and if anything played their best under him, there's no coherence to your argument at all. Zebo's best performance this season came in an Ireland shirt against Romania, but even if you think Schmidt's system doesn't get the most out of him, he hasn't played for Schmidt for months now and you might want to look a bit closer to home for the reasons behind his current poor form

mfceiling

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

He wouldnt have dropped him.
But explained to him how he needs to react faster to other players, and put himself in better positions to help the team, in that case, getting closer to Heaslip and holding his pace to avoid getting ahead of the pass from a slower player. And so would not have had to rely on his admittedly fine athleticism to recover the situation.
He would have been given a work on to study Dave K or McFadden and practice how it would have been a better play to score a 'boring' Dave K or McFadden try picking up an easy off load and trotting in unopposed, without relying on a bit-of-magic or Z-factor that is a low percentage success.

I'm sorry and maybe I just don't see it but where is all this z - factor or magic coming from. I've watched Gilroy score some unbelievable tries in the last couple of years but I've seen nothing from Zebo to make me hop out of my seat. Some here suggest it's been coached out of him or is it a case that he's just an ok winger?

The Rape of Lucretia

mfceiling wrote: »

I'm sorry and maybe I just don't see it but where is all this z - factor or magic coming from. I've watched Gilroy score some unbelievable tries in the last couple of years but I've seen nothing from Zebo to make me hop out of my seat. Some here suggest it's been coached out of him or is it a case that he's just an ok winger?

The Wales flick was nice in fairness.
But fundamentally, yes, just an OK Munster level winger.
Certainly 5 or 6 or more ahead of him in the Ireland rankings.

shootermacg

jm08 wrote: »

That is a nonsense interpretation of Zebo popping up all over the place. He has been told to do that as he used be criticised for not coming in off his wing and not hitting enough rucks.

Munster really miss Felix Jones this season. He organised the backs really well and was a brilliant defender. Conway has a bit of work to do yet from that point of view.

There's one thing coming in off your wing. When you find yourself on the other wing. while "coming in off your wing" you need to be fitted for a GPS!

Why not play with 2 right wingers? At least that way the team knows there'll be no one there and stick a front row out there to cover... which, come to think of it actually happened recently.

Pink Fairy

aimee1 wrote: »

You clearly are saying he has changed his game because of ireland, when he has actually been asked to improve areas of his game. If Munster cant get the best out of him then thats Munsters issue, not down to JS. You are blaming JS either directly or indirectly when you imply Munster have a player who isnt playing so well because he changed for ireland.

JS played Fitz as a wing, Leinster play him in the centre and he has been the stand out performer in the two games v Toulon against Nonu.

You're reading things that aren't there, you're saying things I have not said.
1 Zebo has changed his physical shape and game to get into the Irish team/squad...nobody in their right mind can argue that.
2 This new attitude of Zebo's lends itself to improvement in his all around game, his hitting rucks, tackling and defensive work in particular.
3 He now plays the same game for Munster aa he does Ireland, no longer on the wing, but more central, trying to make things happen, create space for other to benefit, whereas before he would have been the beneficiary of other people's work.
4 Is this the Zebo most Munster fans want to see? Prob not, but it is not a critiscm of JS, it is more a critique of the way the modern game has gone , the days of lithe, will-o-the-wisp wingers who's only job was to score trys has gone, its that simple. I lament the loss of what Zebo was, I recognise the player he has become, I don't blame JS ..clear enough?

mfceiling

Pink Fairy wrote: »

You're reading things that aren't there, you're saying things I have not said.
1 Zebo has changed his physical shape and game to get into the Irish team/squad...nobody in their right mind can argue that.
2 This new attitude of Zebo's lends itself to improvement in his all around game, his hitting rucks, tackling and defensive work in particular.
3 He now plays the same game for Munster aa he does Ireland, no longer on the wing, but more central, trying to make things happen, create space for other to benefit, whereas before he would have been the beneficiary of other people's work.
4 Is this the Zebo most Munster fans want to see? Prob not, but it is not a critiscm of JS, it is more a critique of the way the modern game has gone , the days of lithe, will-o-the-wisp wingers who's only job was to score trys has gone, its that simple. I lament the loss of what Zebo was, I recognise the player ge has become, I don't blame JS ..clear enough?

But even in the modern game there are wingers like Gilroy or Milner Scudder who aren't physically huge but are very quick and have a step that leaves defenders on their arse. Has Zebo lost his pace or his eye for a gap or is he playing in an ordinary munster backline where opportunities are not there for him to carve open defences? Every time I see him now he receives the ball, does that stupid little skip and more often than not makes no yards and ends up setting up a new ruck. I wonder how he'd fare in an open attacking teams backline? Would any of the big french/English teams even be interested in him when his contract expires?

case885

mfceiling wrote:

But even in the modern game there are wingers like Gilroy or Milner Scudder who aren't physically huge but are very quick and have a step that leaves defenders on their arse. Has Zebo lost his pace or his eye for a gap or is he playing in an ordinary munster backline where opportunities are not there for him to carve open defences? Every time I see him now he receives the ball, does that stupid little skip and more often than not makes no yards and ends up setting up a new ruck. I wonder how he'd fare in an open attacking teams backline? Would any of the big french/English teams even be interested in him when his contract expires?

He hasn't a step like gilroy or NMS who do very well in tight spaces but he certainly has the pace and thrives off broken play, I think he may be more suited to full back.
Toulouse, Pau, stade were all rumoured to be interested in signing him, he'll have no shortage of offers.

aimee1

Pink Fairy wrote: »

You're reading things that aren't there, you're saying things I have not said.
1 Zebo has changed his physical shape and game to get into the Irish team/squad...nobody in their right mind can argue that.
2 This new attitude of Zebo's lends itself to improvement in his all around game, his hitting rucks, tackling and defensive work in particular.
3 He now plays the same game for Munster aa he does Ireland, no longer on the wing, but more central, trying to make things happen, create space for other to benefit, whereas before he would have been the beneficiary of other people's work.
4 Is this the Zebo most Munster fans want to see? Prob not, but it is not a critiscm of JS, it is more a critique of the way the modern game has gone , the days of lithe, will-o-the-wisp wingers who's only job was to score trys has gone, its that simple. I lament the loss of what Zebo was, I recognise the player he has become, I don't blame JS ..clear enough?

1. no argument

2. so he has improved areas of his game, so munster have a better player now?

3. thats munsters fault. Foley can use Zebo how he wants to surely? JS Uses Fitz as a wing, Leo uses him as a centre.

4. Zebo could still be that player if he was coached properly at provincial level. Zebo is playing for Munster how Foley wants him to play surely?

jm08

shootermacg wrote: »

There's one thing coming in off your wing. When you find yourself on the other wing. while "coming in off your wing" you need to be fitted for a GPS!

Why not play with 2 right wingers? At least that way the team knows there'll be no one there and stick a front row out there to cover... which, come to think of it actually happened recently.

When this happened, where was the fullback? Who was organising the defence?

molloyjh

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Of all the new names being thrown about I think McCloskey is the only one that might actually be realistic as a starter. It very much depends on the fitness of Payne and Henshaw though. If they're back they start.

McCloskey could potentially play alongside Payne and Trimble who he plays with at Ulster so it's not like someone from Connacht coming in and literally having played with none of the other players before.

If Payne is fit and gets selected it'll be Henshaw-Payne in the centre. Otherwise it'll be Fitzgerald-Henshaw.

former total

Ah Zebo, the boards gift that keeps on giving.

Whether he's changed his game to suit Joe, whether he never had this magical ability in the first place, whether he's carrying too much weight, none of this really matters.

What matters is his proven ability and current form. On neither of those is he likely to get into the Irish team. He needs a big couple of weeks in Europe.

case885

I don't think Zebo is contention at the moment anyway, Trimble and earls are best wingers we have fit.

molloyjh

Is this the Ireland thread or the Zebo thread? At times I can't be sure.....

swiwi_

Zebo and Heaslip have much in common methinks. Munster fans won't hear a bad word, Leinster fans give praise through gritted teeth, and vice versa. Not much else to discuss, I suppose.

*closes forum, does something more productive with his life*