Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

awec

former total wrote: »

In fairness, no, he's not. His selection ahead of "better" wingers at the RWC was based on form. If the other guys were far better options than DK, they concealed it well.

He has been consistently good for Ireland. He will be in the mix for 6N.

In fairness, he is.

"Consistently good" for Ireland is nonsense. The mental gymnastics required to discuss DK as anything other than injury cover is just a step too far to be plausible.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

padser wrote: »

Good point.

It's well known that it's a classic sign of a poor winger to be consistently in a position to finish off moves.

If only he could disimprove that aspect of his game so that he had a couple more players to beat when he gets the ball.

Seriously, I'm all on for legimate criticism of players, and that's not it.

My point is a lot of our wingers score tries that basically involve being in the position they were supposed to be in. Hardly a sign of a world class player that, doing the bare minimum required from a person in that position. It's not like he, or any of our wing options, are Milner Skudder or even a Jack Nowell who can create a try out of nothing all by themselves.

former total

awec wrote: »

In fairness, he is.

"Consistently good" for Ireland is nonsense. The mental gymnastics required to discuss DK as anything other than injury cover is just a step too far to be plausible.

Mental gymnastics? He was first choice at the world cup when all the "better" options were fit and available. That's fact. You're doing a bit of mental gymnastics yourself there, with a bit of wishful thinking and selective amnesia thrown in.

awec

former total wrote: »

Mental gymnastics? He was first choice at the world cup when all the "better" options were fit and available. That's fact. You're doing a bit of mental gymnastics yourself there, with a bit of wishful thinking and selective amnesia thrown in.

He had a few decent games in the warm ups and suddenly he was amazing. During the World cup he wasn't that hot and got shown up big time in the quarter final.

The guy is just not at the level required. He can fill in now and again and is capable of the odd good showing, but a genuine option he is not. He has the attacking threat of a wet flannel.

No doubt someone will soon mention something about him knowing "systems", or how many rucks he can clear out in a single game. If only he could throw the ball into the lineout or control the ball at the back of a scrum cause then he'd be undroppable.

AbusesToilets

Gilroy is a player who would be deserving of further investment. He's easily one of the best attacking threats playing at the moment.

CatFromHue

I don't remember anyone calling him amazing and yes he did have some decent games in the warm ups, something that his competitors for the wing spots didn't. It's not that difficult to see why he was picked.

That game where he did have a stinker was also the only time he played less than good for Ireland.

aimee1

jm08 wrote: »

With Ruddock v stander otherwise, Stander on the bench as he can cover 2 positions.

Ruddock has played 6/8 for leinster IIRC and played at 7 for ireland v SA

molloyjh

This place is going down the toilet fast these days.

A simple way to put it is that Joe has selected the guys he has over the last while and as quite a successful head coach who knows a lot more about the game than any of us I think it's a bit daft to be calling some of his decisions into question as much as people are.

Is Dave Kearney the best winger we've ever produced? No. Was he in fine form coming into the RWC? From what we saw he was. He's not a flashy winger but he is still quite a talented player. Joe isn't picking him for the laugh. And anyone here who thinks they know more than the most successful coach this island has ever seen is quite obviously delusional. There are reasons he's being selected ahead of others. Anyone who doesn't get why might want to ask themselves what they are missing, not what the coach that has brought 7 trophies in 6 years is missing. Disagree to a certain extent fine, but to think that Joe is so wide of the mark while you are on the money is just hilarious.

And I'm not even touching the Zebo debate. What's most disappointing there is that a lot of posters who should know better are encouraging the minority of posters who will never change their spots. Some people you simply can't engage with, so why bother trying?

There used to be a lot of reasonable discussion here but we're getting to the stage where we have to hunt through pages of crap to get to the few decent posts that it's becoming less and less worth the effort.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

According to an article on the Indo there's 48 players at the Ireland camp today. 11 are from Ulster including McCloskey and Marshall. Kyle McColl is not included.
Ringrose and Van der Flier are both included and Dillane from Connacht is the other uncapped player. That's what the article says so I assume there's no other completely new faces there.
They won't release the full list from today but an extended 6 Nations Squad and a replacement for Kiss will be named in the coming weeks.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

He had a few decent games in the warm ups and suddenly he was amazing. During the World cup he wasn't that hot and got shown up big time in the quarter final.

The guy is just not at the level required. He can fill in now and again and is capable of the odd good showing, but a genuine option he is not. He has the attacking threat of a wet flannel.

No doubt someone will soon mention something about him knowing "systems", or how many rucks he can clear out in a single game. If only he could throw the ball into the lineout or control the ball at the back of a scrum cause then he'd be undroppable.

He was the form winger coming into the RWC without question. To ignore that does the guy a huge disservice. He got badly caught out once against Argentina when a load of things inside him went tits up as well but the other mistakes he made weren't that big a deal. There were so many mistakes from so many people in the opening 20 of that game that pinning it on DK the way some have (and you went on a real witch hunt yourself over it) is unfair. But if I'm honest I'm not surprised. Did you talk about Bests role in that try, where he got himself stuck in no mans land in midfield for example? All the failures inside DK left the guy exposed. He didn't handle it well and should have done better but he wasn't the only one at fault there.

I'm sure you'll throw the tackle stats out there as well but as I've said before you need to look at what tackles he actually missed. He was our primary kick chaser for most of the game and so probably missed a couple when chasing kicks, which isn't the same thing at all. But just like the Toner debate there couldn't possibly be a middle ground where the guy actually has some talent that gets him selected. Instead it's just a simple case of him not being good enough and that's the end of it. Black and white, no grey.

shootermacg

Trimble on the wing if he's fit. He's such a class act and deserves it. DK like his brother is great when acting and then makes poor decisions when reacting to complex defensive situations, although he'll make the tackle if he doesn't have to think about it.

RK makes up for his bad judgement in defense by being a great senior player who lifts the team through communication.

Their strengths out-weigh their weaknesses IMO and I have no problem having either on the team, just not both together at the same time.

I don't think I've seen Earls have a game where he hasn't fumbled or knocked the ball on in a tackle. His hands just aren't good enough, short arms, big chest IMO.

awec

We need to stop pretending that Schmidt is infallible. Yes, he has given us success and some great performances but there are also some really terrible performances in there too. The hammering by Australia, the quarter final and the Italy game in the WC were all fairly dismal off the top of my mind.

This is a discussion forum, just because people are discussing things doesn't mean the forum has gone down the toilet. As for "anyone who thinks they know better than Schmidt" stuff, sure we may as well just close the forum if that's the stance we all have to take. It wouldn't be much of a discussion forum if it was just page after page of back patting talking about how wonderful everything is.

Nobody has said DK is a terrible player, it's just that we have other players who are better than he is. He is obviously talented given that he has a career as a pro rugby player, but is he test winger material? Not really, he can fill in here and there but he is not a name you want to see on your team sheet too often. The fact his he offers pretty much nothing in attack, something that I am sure most will agree is ever so slightly important when it comes to playing on the wing.

The overall issue here, and has been for a while, is that we have the potential to play much more interesting rugby than we do. To start with we need to pick two wingers who can attack rather than two wingers who can reliably clear out a ruck.

shootermacg

awec wrote: »

We need to stop pretending that Schmidt is infallible. Yes, he has given us success and some great performances but there are also some really terrible performances in there too. The hammering by Australia, the quarter final and the Italy game in the WC were all fairly dismal off the top of my mind.

This is a discussion forum, just because people are discussing things doesn't mean the forum has gone down the toilet. As for "anyone who thinks they know better than Schmidt" stuff, sure we may as well just close the forum if that's the stance we all have to take. It wouldn't be much of a discussion forum if it was just page after page of back patting talking about how wonderful everything is.

Nobody has said DK is a terrible player, it's just that we have other players who are better than he is. He is obviously talented given that he has a career as a pro rugby player, but is he test winger material? Not really, he can fill in here and there but he is not a name you want to see on your team sheet too often. The fact his he offers pretty much nothing in attack, something that I am sure most will agree is ever so slightly important when it comes to playing on the wing.

The overall issue here, and has been for a while, is that we have the potential to play much more interesting rugby than we do. To start with we need to pick two wingers who can attack rather than two wingers who can reliably clear out a ruck.

The JS strategy has been a winning strategy. I totally think that without injury we would have beaten Argentina with that strategy.

Munster employed a similar strategy in the second half against Ulster, DW stuck in some nice box-kicks (although his passing was crazy ^ ^) and Keats put in some nice territorial kicks pinning Ulster in their own half and piling pressure on. I don't doubt that Ulster are the better team as it stands, but by god the forward battle is much easier in the other teams 22.

Hagz

The majority of your post is sensible, but Dave Kearney offers a lot more than 'pretty much nothing in attack'. He's actually pretty damn effective in attack. He's very strong in contact and in most cases he gets over the gain-line and breaks the first tackle. He has wonderful timing as well allowing him to hit inside lines at full pace. Keeping things relevant he made 3 clean line breaks and beat 4 defenders against Connacht. Nothing wrong with saying you think there are better options, but you don't have to talk the guy down so much.

CatFromHue

Hagz wrote: »

The majority of your post is sensible, but Dave Kearney offers a lot more than 'pretty much nothing in attack'. He's actually pretty damn effective in attack. He's very strong in contact and in most cases he gets over the gain-line and breaks the first tackle. He has wonderful timing as well allowing him to hit inside lines at full pace. Keeping things relevant he made 3 clean line breaks and beat 4 defenders against Connacht. Nothing wrong with saying you think there are better options, but you don't have to talk the guy down so much.

I agree.

I posted a table earlier showing DK as one of the best attacking wingers over the Christmas interpros. He performed better than everyone bar Rory Scholes.

awec

Hagz wrote: »

The majority of your post is sensible, but Dave Kearney offers a lot more than 'pretty much nothing in attack'. He's actually pretty damn effective in attack. He's very strong in contact and in most cases he gets over the gain-line and breaks the first tackle. He has wonderful timing as well allowing him to hit inside lines at full pace. Keeping things relevant he made 3 clean line breaks and beat 4 defenders against Connacht. Nothing wrong with saying you think there are better options, but you don't have to talk the guy down so much.

I am talking about test level. He is perfectly capable at levels below that.

bilston

It will be interesting to see how our gameplan develops over the next 12 months.

2016 is a big year for us. It will be the first year without both our two main talismen of the last 15 years and it will be interesting to see how the leadership group copes without POC's influence. Losing both Henderson and O'Mahony for the season is a huge blow. POM may well have been the next captain and Henderson was seen by most as Paulie's direct replacement.

There have been question marks about our play in the WC but I think a fully fit SOB will make a big difference and personally I'd get McCloskey in the team to give us some real go forward in midfield that we can then play off. There is no disguising the fact that we need Sexton back to his best, he seems to be getting there, maybe he is timing his run perfectly for the 6Ns.

I am 50% hopeful and 50% worried. I don't think we can overstate the importance of the Welsh game. If we lose that we could really struggle given we've to go to Paris and London. Beat Wales and our pecker will be up and I could see a third title in succession. It really could go either way.

swiwi_

Does pecker mean something else in Ireland?

jm08

aimee1 wrote: »

Ruddock has played 6/8 for leinster IIRC and played at 7 for ireland v SA

Ah Good - he would be a better bench option then. Stander to start :pac:

aimee1

jm08 wrote: »

He hardly ever plays on the left wing - how do you come to that conclusion?

two world cups. 8 tries, 5 of them on the left wing.

In order of preference for the 11 shirt I would have

1. Earls
2. Fitz [his carrying edging the better finisher in zebo]
3. Zebo
4. DK

awec

awec wrote: »

We need to stop pretending that Schmidt is infallible.

Don't think anyone is saying he is infallible. I think the contingency for our centers getting injured was poor in the world cup and the fact that we had a backup 10 who played little at 10 the previous season is also a problem. There were other issues.

That said, He is the most successful coach ever to operate on these shores and a lot of dismissive comments about his selection from armchair critics who have demonstrated on many occasions that they have a very particular view of the game is tiresome.

You can say, "I don't think Dave Kearney is the best winger available" without saying "He should never wear an Ireland Jersey again". This being a player who was integral in our first 6N win under Joe and was in fantastic form before the WC. He was in fantastic form on Friday and I'd say he would start for most of the other provinces if available to them.

This would be a much better forum, if people gave reasons why they think certain players should be picked as opposed to spewing nonsense about how rubbish certain players are. It's become a very negative place, and as a moderator you have been leading a lot of that with your rhetoric the last few months Awec.

MB678

bilston wrote: »

There is no disguising the fact that we need Sexton back to his best, he seems to be getting there, maybe he is timing his run perfectly for the 6Ns.

We need the guy big time.

I'd like to hear what people think on Sexton recovering from Top 14.
I mean that in both senses of the word. Form and health. It's been stated time and time again that Sexton was targeted by the French, which we saw in the international games. The Top 14 is a physically demanding league and I think what we are seeing here is Sexton come back to 100% health albeit slowly.

Give him time, there's no signs of knocks or concussions like there was in France and there is better player management in practice.

former total

Stander and Murphy are the only genuinely versatile back rows we have and with Murphy struggling for form, CJ looks like a decent bench option, with Ruddock at 6.

aimee1

jm08 wrote: »

Ah Good - he would be a better bench option then. Stander to start :pac:

That would be SOB at 6 with Henry at 7. Heaslip at 8

Hagz

awec wrote: »

I am talking about test level. He is perfectly capable at levels below that.

I'd disagree with that statement. He's proved himself to be effective at international level. It's just a pity one game will be used as a stick to beat him with. He was more than deserving of his place in the WC side.

aimee1

former total wrote: »

Stander and Murphy are the only genuinely versatile back rows we have and with Murphy struggling for form, CJ looks like a decent bench option, with Ruddock at 6.

I think that depends on the combination. POM in defensive lineouts is excellent and while Stander is excellent carrier and good at the breakdown I am not sure how good he is at that aspect.

Heaslip, Ruddock, SOB, Henry, TOD, Stander. Its going to be 4 from that 6 I reckon.

aimee1

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't think anyone is saying he is infallible. I think the contingency for our centers getting injured was poor in the world cup and the fact that we had a backup 10 who played little at 10 the previous season is also a problem. There were other issues.

That said, He is the most successful coach ever to operate on these shores and a lot of dismissive comments about his selection from armchair critics who have demonstrated on many occasions that they have a very particular view of the game is tiresome.

You can say, "I don't think Dave Kearney is the best winger available" without saying "He should never wear an Ireland Jersey again". This being a player who was integral in our first 6N win under Joe and was in fantastic form before the WC. He was in fantastic form on Friday and I'd say he would start for most of the other provinces if available to them.

This would be a much better forum, if people gave reasons why they think certain players should be picked as opposed to spewing nonsense about how rubbish certain players are. It's become a very negative place, and as a moderator you have been leading a lot of that with your rhetoric the last few months Awec.

We also had a specialist centre [cave] who wasnt used when Payne got injured

jm08

:eek:h

shootermacg wrote: »

Trimble on the wing if he's fit. He's such a class act and deserves it. DK like his brother is great when acting and then makes poor decisions when reacting to complex defensive situations, although he'll make the tackle if he doesn't have to think about it.

RK makes up for his bad judgement in defense by being a great senior player who lifts the team through communication.

Their strengths out-weigh their weaknesses IMO and I have no problem having either on the team, just not both together at the same time.

I don't think I've seen Earls have a game where he hasn't fumbled or knocked the ball on in a tackle. His hands just aren't good enough, short arms, big chest IMO.

A top international winger would have scored that try last night that Trimble failed to do (both earls and Zebo for example).

Dave Kearney is a good club standard player (not as good as Ian Downing was though!)

Pink Fairy

swiwi_ wrote: »

Does pecker mean something else in Ireland?

One of awec's gave xfactor performers

jm08

aimee1 wrote: »

That would be SOB at 6 with Henry at 7. Heaslip at 8

Henry wasn't looking too hot last night.

aimee1

jm08 wrote: »

Henry wasn't looking too hot last night.

Mike Ross was dropped by leinster a few weeks before the 6n last year and started all 5 games. We already know how JS operates so that means very little

jm08

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't think anyone is saying he is infallible. I think the contingency for our centers getting injured was poor in the world cup and the fact that we had a backup 10 who played little at 10 the previous season is also a problem. There were other issues.

That said, He is the most successful coach ever to operate on these shores and a lot of dismissive comments about his selection from armchair critics who have demonstrated on many occasions that they have a very particular view of the game is tiresome.

You can say, "I don't think Dave Kearney is the best winger available" without saying "He should never wear an Ireland Jersey again". This being a player who was integral in our first 6N win under Joe and was in fantastic form before the WC. He was in fantastic form on Friday and I'd say he would start for most of the other provinces if available to them.


This would be a much better forum, if people gave reasons why they think certain players should be picked as opposed to spewing nonsense about how rubbish certain players are. It's become a very negative place, and as a moderator you have been leading a lot of that with your rhetoric the last few months Awec.

To be referred to as our most successful coach ever, Schmidt needs to win a grand slam and beat one of Aus, Nz or Sa in the SH.

He gets a chance to do that this year and 2 cracks at a rebuilding ABs who will be minus macaw, Carter, smith and nonu.

The Rape of Lucretia

jm08 wrote: »

To be referred to as our most successful coach ever, Schmidt needs to win a grand slam and beat one of Aus, Nz or Sa in the SH.

Why ? Who has the better record than him without the above ?

CatFromHue

jm08 wrote: »

To be referred to as our most successful coach ever, Schmidt needs to win a grand slam and beat one of Aus, Nz or Sa in the SH.

He gets a chance to do that this year and 2 cracks at a rebuilding ABs who will be minus macaw, Carter, smith and nonu.

Ha, you're already belittling something he hasn't done yet

CMOTDibbler

jm08 wrote: »

:eek:h

A top international winger would have scored that try last night that Trimble failed to do (both earls and Zebo for example).

Dave Kearney is a good club standard player (not as good as Ian Downing was though!)

Oh the shame!

Don't say it was a typo, L and N are too far apart on the keyboard :P










There must be some sort of drastic punishment for Munster supporters who don't know the names of their players.

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

To be referred to as our most successful coach ever, Schmidt needs to win a grand slam and beat one of Aus, Nz or Sa in the SH.

He gets a chance to do that this year and 2 cracks at a rebuilding ABs who will be minus macaw, Carter, smith and nonu.

Who is better?

jm08

aimee1 wrote: »

Mike Ross was dropped by leinster a few weeks before the 6n last year and started all 5 games. We already know how JS operates so that means very little

Substitute Sean o'Brien for Henry and that might be correct. Henry isn't a first choice player.

jm08

Deleted User wrote: »

Who is better?

Mick Doyle beat Australia down there as did Kidney. Kidney is the only coach ever to win a Grand Slam.

jm08

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Oh the shame!

Don't say it was a typo, L and N are too far apart on the keyboard :P

There must be some sort of drastic punishment for Munster supporters who don't know the names of their players.

Put it down to not using a proper keyboard.

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

Mick Doyle beat Australia down there as did Kidney. Kidney is the only coach ever to win a Grand Slam.

So Mick Doyle and Declan Kidney are better coaches?

The Rape of Lucretia

awec wrote: »

We need to stop pretending that Schmidt is infallible.

This is blasphemous talk. The start of the 6N is around the corner. Yes, we are all undergoing a test of our faith since the world cup, but we must stay true to him.

Joe is the one sent to bring us to rugby Nirvana, is the smartest rugby brain in the universe, and will deliver.

Joe doesnt do mistakes. He doesnt do random. He does evolutionary steps. The ones necessary, no more, no less, to reach the greater goal.

Joe moves in mysterious ways. You may not understand all the selections, or agree with the tactics. But in that case, it is your own rugby insight that is lacking, not Joe's. Search your feelings and you will know it to be true.

bilston

jm08 wrote: »

:eek:h

A top international winger would have scored that try last night that Trimble failed to do (both earls and Zebo for example).

Dave Kearney is a good club standard player (not as good as Ian Downing was though!)

I can't think of the example you're thinking of from last night regarding Trimble but if you seriously think Trimble isn't a class finisher then you are either off your rocker or you haven't watched him play...ever...

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

bilston wrote: »

I can't think of the example you're thinking of from last night regarding Trimble but if you seriously think Trimble isn't a class finisher then you are either off your rocker or you haven't watched him play...ever...

Maybe he's thinking of the one Trimble stopped?

jm08

Deleted User wrote: »

So Mick Doyle and Declan Kidney are better coaches?

Both have had more success at international level.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

We need to stop pretending that Schmidt is infallible. Yes, he has given us success and some great performances but there are also some really terrible performances in there too. The hammering by Australia, the quarter final and the Italy game in the WC were all fairly dismal off the top of my mind.

This is a discussion forum, just because people are discussing things doesn't mean the forum has gone down the toilet. As for "anyone who thinks they know better than Schmidt" stuff, sure we may as well just close the forum if that's the stance we all have to take. It wouldn't be much of a discussion forum if it was just page after page of back patting talking about how wonderful everything is.

Nobody has said DK is a terrible player, it's just that we have other players who are better than he is. He is obviously talented given that he has a career as a pro rugby player, but is he test winger material? Not really, he can fill in here and there but he is not a name you want to see on your team sheet too often. The fact his he offers pretty much nothing in attack, something that I am sure most will agree is ever so slightly important when it comes to playing on the wing.

The overall issue here, and has been for a while, is that we have the potential to play much more interesting rugby than we do. To start with we need to pick two wingers who can attack rather than two wingers who can reliably clear out a ruck.

It's not about Joe being infallible. It's about Joe knowing more than you and I combined about the sport. And I'm not talking about agreeing 100% with everything Joe does either. As I said I was talking about when there's a fairly substantial and fundamental difference in opinion. If you don't think DK is up to it at all and can't see why he's getting selected and the most successful coach we've ever had in Ireland is selecting him then the chances are you're missing something. Not the coach.

Every player is part of a whole and players are getting selected based on how they fit the way we are trying to play and how they compliment or link up with those around them. It isn't as simple as "a wingers job is X", full stop and end of story. Real life is more complicated than that. And while you might not agree with Joe is it not a bit daft to suggest he doesn't know what he is doing? Because by saying he selects guys not up to it would suggest he doesn't know what he is doing.

awec

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't think anyone is saying he is infallible. I think the contingency for our centers getting injured was poor in the world cup and the fact that we had a backup 10 who played little at 10 the previous season is also a problem. There were other issues.

That said, He is the most successful coach ever to operate on these shores and a lot of dismissive comments about his selection from armchair critics who have demonstrated on many occasions that they have a very particular view of the game is tiresome.

You can say, "I don't think Dave Kearney is the best winger available" without saying "He should never wear an Ireland Jersey again". This being a player who was integral in our first 6N win under Joe and was in fantastic form before the WC. He was in fantastic form on Friday and I'd say he would start for most of the other provinces if available to them.

This would be a much better forum, if people gave reasons why they think certain players should be picked as opposed to spewing nonsense about how rubbish certain players are. It's become a very negative place, and as a moderator you have been leading a lot of that with your rhetoric the last few months Awec.

I didn't say he shouldn't wear a jersey again. Nobody has said the word infallible, but it seems that it's impossible to criticise anything to do with the Ireland setup these days without it just being dismissed and references made to winning two in a row or how we beat a rubbish French team in our pool as if that is proof that we are absolutely perfect.

That isn't negativity either. There is always room for improvement. Ireland's style of play can improve and I believe we have the players to do it.

Trimble, Zebo, Earls and even Bowe and Gilroy are all more exciting, attacking wingers than Dave Kearney and IMO should all be selected ahead of him.

Also, as to your reference to the centre during the World Cup let's not forget that Schmidt decided to bring an actual centre that he didn't want to use.

jm08

bilston wrote: »

I can't think of the example you're thinking of from last night regarding Trimble but if you seriously think Trimble isn't a class finisher then you are either off your rocker or you haven't watched him play...ever...

It was a kick down the sideline where young Ronan o'mahony knocked him off the ball. A top class finisher like earls or Zebo would have got down low and slid in for the try.

Edit include bowe with Zebo and earls.

Hagz

jm08 wrote: »

Both have had more success at international level.

It's pretty difficult to argue that.
If you judge success by silverware, they haven't.
If you judge success by win rate, they haven't.
If you judge success by grandslams on the other hand...

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

Nobody has said the word infallible...

You used the word infallible??????

molloyjh

Hagz wrote: »

It's pretty difficult to argue that.
If you judge success by silverware, they haven't.
If you judge success by win rate, they haven't.
If you judge success by grandslams on the other hand...

You won't get any change from that one so you're wasting your time. No other coach in Irish history has, to my knowledge, won at least 1 trophy every single season they have been here. None have ever won back to back HECs. None in the last 60 or so years have won back to back 6 Nations. But logic like this is absent from some minds. And will remain absent.