Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Clearly nobody's going to agree on this because as I see it, most of the players currently are a notch below the likes of Tommy Bowe, Denis Hickie and Shane Horgan. That's based on the consistent scoring records they've had over a lot of caps. The only one who comes close to them is Keith Earls who needs 15-20 more caps to be their equal (something I've no doubt he could do btw).

After that, there are outliers like Fergus McFadden and Andrew Trimble, but both are getting on and probably won't trouble the record books.

What we are short of is somebody that can equal those records on a consistent basis. Some say that this could be Simon Zebo, but that's yet to be decided.

Having produced the table, I'd be the first to admit that it's a very one-dimensional view. What Ireland has lacked since the retirement of BOD is a genuine, consistent gain-line breaker who can put others or themselves over the try line. The fact that our best try scoring wingers played most of their international rugby in teams that featured BOD is an indication of that.

There is some hope that this dearth may well be filled in the coming years by the likes of Garry Ringrose, Stuart Olding, Luke Fitz (at centre) and others such as Robbie Henshaw who already have shown some promise. Maybe then we'll see our wingers score more tries.

Another excellent point. The style of rugby we're playing the last few years isn't really the kind where wingers shine. Our forwards probably score more than our backs these days. Based on club form Craig Gilroy can score for fun but put him in Schmidt's system can he do the same? Who knows.

Zzippy

Any word on Ross's injury? IIRC it was a significant tear, so he could be out for most of the tournament. White and Moore the obvious replacements...

aimee1

Zzippy wrote: »

Any word on Ross's injury? IIRC it was a significant tear, so he could be out for most of the tournament. White and Moore the obvious replacements...

I reckon furlong might get gametime

Larbre34

aimee1 wrote: »

I reckon furlong might get gametime

Agreed. I think Rossie might already be finished at test level, he has been very solid but its the perfect time to rotate him out, as he will not be around in 2 years. 3 or 4 other contenders should be playing every game between them from now on, and Furlong should be regular among those.

former total

aimee1 wrote: »

I reckon furlong might get gametime

Well from a future development point of view it would make sense; White is 34, Ross is 36, but I think it will still be Moore and one of the auld lads - Ross if fit, White if not.

vienne86

So, who's going to be captain? Heaslip? I'd like to see Best get it.

awec

Heaslip was vice captain before so you'd have to assume he'll be promoted.

jm08

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Another excellent point. The style of rugby we're playing the last few years isn't really the kind where wingers shine. Our forwards probably score more than our backs these days. Based on club form Craig Gilroy can score for fun but put him in Schmidt's system can he do the same? Who knows.

Indeed. Simon Zebo has a better try scoring club record than Craig Gilroy and we have seen what has happened to him.

jm08

sydthebeat wrote: »

you see, this kind of statement equates to Zebo not being in the training camps beforehand......

or being in the training camps and not doing enough to secure the position.
which was it?

seeing as he got game time on the wing against wales in the first match, started at 15 against scotland and didnt feature at all against wales x2... which to me shows he was regressing in training.

He was in the training camps and training to play as backup fullback. I don't think Trimble was meant to get injured in the first game. Didn't Zebo get a motm in one of the warm ups? He also produced some sublime passing and offloads during the tournament. He also made the squad ahead of Felix Jones so I don't thing that regressing in training comment washes.

stephen_n

swiwi_ wrote: »

Anyway, as an outsider, I'll just watch whom Schmidt selects with interest. His international coaching career is firmly in the balance, a mid-table 6N finish, a 0-3 series loss to SA, and back-to-back defeats to NZ would put a serious dent in his prospects for the Lions/NZ one day if he wishes that, the opposite would obviously get him WR coach of the year etc.

Hardly the time to throw the plan out the window and suddenly try play an expansive game then. The opposite is more likely going to be achieved with a conservative approach I'd imagine.

shuffol

stephen_n wrote: »

Hardly the time to throw the plan out the window and suddenly try play an expansive game then. The opposite is more likely going to be achieved with a conservative approach I'd imagine.

I don't think it's necessarily a case of being conservative, more playing to our strengths.

We've 2 of the best kicking halfbacks in the world, a very strong lineout, one of the best defensive lineout jumpers in the world in POM and a collection of backs that are very strong in the air. But for SOB our backrow lacks strong ball carriers but are all mobile and good at getting around the park. The game plan we play is best suited to the personnel we have and back to back 6N's is evidence of that.

Who would make the better captain; Zebo or DK?
















































:pac:

aimee1

former total wrote: »

Well from a future development point of view it would make sense; White is 34, Ross is 36, but I think it will still be Moore and one of the auld lads - Ross if fit, White if not.

I did say "might get gametime"

Given Furlong went to the RWC I think he is very much in the plans going forward

aimee1

Deleted User wrote: »

Who would make the better captain; Zebo or DK?
:pac:

DK obviously. His nickname is dreamboat. Proper captain material.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Who would make the better captain; Zebo or DK?

Marmion

aimee1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Marmion

Boss

.ak

awec wrote: »

I'd disagree completely, I think Zebo is a much better player than DK and if it was he who had put in a showing like DK on the wing or RK at fullback in that QF then he'd have been hung, drawn and quartered on here.

And DK wasn't?

jm08

.ak wrote: »

And DK wasn't?

No. Bod blamed earls and most people jumped on that bandwagon.

.ak

jm08 wrote: »

No. Bod blamed earls and most people jumped on that bandwagon.

Are you serious? DK wasn't/isn't being hung out to dry for the quarter final loss on this forum?

molloyjh

jm08 wrote: »

No. Bod blamed earls and most people jumped on that bandwagon.

Well that's not true. The bandwagon most jumped on was the difference between NH and SH rugby.

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

Are you serious? DK wasn't/isn't being hung out to dry for the quarter final loss on this forum?

A good few people had a real go at him over it all right. But then we had people having a go at Madigan, Murphy, Rob Kearney, Heaslip, Schmidt and a whole bunch of others.

.ak

molloyjh wrote: »

A good few people had a real go at him over it all right. But then we had people having a go at Madigan, Murphy, Rob Kearney, Heaslip, Schmidt and a whole bunch of others.

I'm not saying he was the only one, just that the notion Zebo would be hung out to dry seemed to imply DK got a free ride. Anything but, we have posters asking for unanimous agreement of never wanting to see him in an Irish jersey again.

Both players get an unfair grilling for some reason. I think it stems from people being viciously opposed to average players like Zebo or DK wearing green when in reality they only get there if the situation is right; injuries, time in training etc.

People need to be realistic and realise that from time to time there will be average players in the 15. We just don't have the resources to have 15 world beaters on the team.

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

I'm not saying he was the only one, just that the notion Zebo would be hung out to dry seemed to imply DK got a free ride. Anything but, we have posters asking for unanimous agreement of never wanting to see him in an Irish jersey again.

Both players get an unfair grilling for some reason. I think it stems from people being viciously opposed to average players like Zebo or DK wearing green when in reality they only get there if the situation is right; injuries, time in training etc.

People need to be realistic and realise that from time to time there will be average players in the 15. We just don't have the resources to have 15 world beaters on the team.

And also that from time to time average players have periods of really good form that takes them out of the average bracket, if only for a period.

There is also a lot to be said for an average player who makes good decisions over an exciting and skilful player who doesn't (I'm not talking about anyone in particular here).

jm08

.ak wrote: »

Are you serious? DK wasn't/isn't being hung out to dry for the quarter final loss on this forum?

No he is not being hung out to dry for that, he is been hung out to dry for not being an international winger.

molloyjh wrote: »

Well that's not true. The bandwagon most jumped on was the difference between NH and SH rugby.

are you saying that the reason Ireland put in a poor showing is down to the difference between NH & SH.

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

are you saying that the reason Ireland put in a poor showing is down to the difference between NH & SH.

Thats what the masses declared after the game. Molloyjh never said he thought that.

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Thats what the masses declared after the game. Molloyjh never said he thought that.

What do the masses know? They only repeat what the pundits pronounce with BOD working overtime on looking after his clients (eg Heaslip and Healy).

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Nice little pass from Paddy Jackson. Drop Sexton entirely for the 6 Nations and let PJ and Mads run the show.

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CX3_XmfWYAAf0dS.mp4

awec

Jackson's passing has always been top notch. IMO his actual passing skill is the best of all the Irish 10s (in terms of execution). He can fire beautiful skip pass bullets flat along the line no problem.

shootermacg

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro12/cj-stander-and-garry-ringrose-among-new-faces-at-ireland-camp-1.2483561

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

What do the masses know? They only repeat what the pundits pronounce with BOD working overtime on looking after his clients (eg Heaslip and Healy).

Funny how much your opinion has changed now that it's BOD working as a pundit compared to the old days when you went out of your way to defend Sheahan from similar criticism

awec

I assume that neither Henderson or Bowe have travelled down from Ulster.

I assume that Best, Henry, Jackson, Trimble, McCloskey, Gilroy, Marshall, Cave and Payne are all there. That's 9. Perhaps Olding has been called down as he nears fitness and maybe O'Connor?

Weird there's no list though I guess with it being 24 hours it's all a bit pointless.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

awec wrote: »

Jackson's passing has always been top notch. IMO his actual passing skill is the best of all the Irish 10s (in terms of execution). He can fire beautiful skip pass bullets flat along the line no problem.

What we should have been doing these last few years is converting Madigan to a SH. That way himself and Jackson could be on the field at the same time and we'd have the best passer and best place kicker on the pitch together. Not sure who'd be making the decisions though... surely between them they'd manage.

shootermacg wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro12/cj-stander-and-garry-ringrose-among-new-faces-at-ireland-camp-1.2483561

Sexton, O'Brien and Heaslip in line for captaincy.

Just my opinion, Sexton is too cranky to be let talk to a referee, O'Brien's discipline is questionable and some refs may hold that against him. Heaslip is the only man for the job, out of those names anyway. I wouldn't say no to Rory Best either.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

awec wrote: »

I assume that neither Henderson or Bowe have travelled down from Ulster.

I assume that Best, Henry, Jackson, Trimble, McCloskey, Gilroy, Marshall, Cave and Payne are all there. That's 9. Perhaps Olding has been called down as he nears fitness and maybe O'Connor?

Weird there's no list though I guess with it being 24 hours it's all a bit pointless.

Are they doing any actual physical work or is it only a sort of meeting and analysis kind of thing? If so Henderson and Bowe could have been there.

Stheno

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

What we should have been doing these last few years is converting Madigan to a SH. That way himself and Jackson could be on the field at the same time and we'd have the best passer and best place kicker on the pitch together. Not sure who'd be making the decisions though... surely between them they'd manage.




Sexton, O'Brien and Heaslip in line for captaincy.

Just my opinion, Sexton is too cranky to be let talk to a referee, O'Brien's discipline is questionable and some refs may hold that against him. Heaslip is the only man for the job, out of those names anyway. I wouldn't say no to Rory Best either.

Indo have Best, Murray and Henshaw in as possible for the captaincy too

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/who-will-replace-paul-oconnell-as-ireland-captain-34332706.html

There's a few sarky comments about a couple of the players in there.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Stheno wrote: »

Indo have Best, Murray and Henshaw in as possible for the captaincy too

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/who-will-replace-paul-oconnell-as-ireland-captain-34332706.html

There's a few sarky comments about a couple of the players in there.

Not sure what he's on about with Heaslip something being "arrogant and churlish". Anytime I've seen him speak as captain, for Leinster or Ireland he's been nothing but professional. Does this particular journo have personal issues with Heaslip? He seems to write him off entirely.

No point discussing O'Mahoney at the moment as he's not going to be playing in the 6 Nations and if he's Schmidt's choice long term then who he appoints for the 6 Nations isn't hugely important.

Interesting too that Schmidt asked the players for suggestions themselves. Although I'd imagine it was divided along provincial lines.

awec

Anyone who reads the Indo comments is insane. They are worse than the IRFU facebook comments.

best or heaslip will be captain

aimee1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Interesting too that Schmidt asked the players for suggestions themselves. Although I'd imagine it was divided along provincial lines.

Explains why all the leinster players nominated Henshaw so.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

awec wrote: »

Anyone who reads the Indo comments is insane. They are worse than the IRFU facebook comments.

They're not in the comments, they're in the article!

It is away from the pitch when the No 8 lets himself down, however, and, while it might not be the primary focus of the role, the additional engagements required of a skipper are pivotal to setting the tone for the team and show the public face of the squad.

When the mood takes him, Heaslip can be engaging company, a funny and thoughtful interviewee who thinks outside the standard selection of stock answers.

However, too often his too-cool-for-school approach lets him down in front of the cameras. He can come across as arrogant and churlish when the mood takes him.

Heaslip will remain an important and valued part of the Ireland set-up, but Schmidt may look elsewhere. The role just doesn't suit him.

irishbucsfan

Almost sounds as if Conor George is back writing for the Indo!

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Almost sounds as if Conor George is back writing for the Indo!

First thing I thought of. Indo as a paper leads the charge in dismissing and attacking the best Irish 8 of all time every opportunity it gets. Conor George took the party line a bit too far and got the sack but this isn't far off that.

Anyone I've spoken to in the Leinster and Irish set up speaks very highly of the guy.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

First thing I thought of. Indo as a paper leads the charge in dismissing and attacking the best Irish 8 of all time every opportunity it gets. Conor George took the party line a bit too far and got the sack but this isn't far off that.

Anyone I've spoken to in the Leinster and Irish set up speaks very highly of the guy.

Is that what happened to George, a certain tweet was it? I noticed he stopped writing for the Indo but never knew what the story was there.

Awful, awful "journalist".

CatFromHue

awec wrote: »

Anyone who reads the Indo comments is insane. They are worse than the IRFU facebook comments.

This one was great

Any chance of an Irishman who is proud of being Irish .A man who will tell the I.R.F.U. that he wants our flag and as anthem used home and away .In a few weeks time we will have journalists telling us as about rugby players WHO took part in the Easter Rising .Well let's see one of the new breed stand up for our country.P.S. I won't be holding my breath

phog

Stheno wrote: »

Indo have Best, Murray and Henshaw in as possible for the captaincy too

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/who-will-replace-paul-oconnell-as-ireland-captain-34332706.html

There's a few sarky comments about a couple of the players in there.

Peter O'Reilly (Sunday Times) has a a bit of a cut off Heaslip too

https://twitter.com/Denis_Hurley/status/683628878141755392?s=09


.

Harley Uptight Light

Harley Uptight Light wrote: »

Is that what happened to George, a certain tweet was it? I noticed he stopped writing for the Indo but never knew what the story was there.

Awful, awful "journalist".

The guy couldn't park his Munster Jersey when he picked up the keyboard. Called Heaslip an "absolute knob".

Stheno

Deleted User wrote: »

The guy couldn't park his Munster Jersey when he picked up the keyboard. Called Heaslip an "absolute knob".

Really?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Does anyone know what specifically they're talking about when saying Heaslip lacks humility etc?

It sounds like some of these guys may have had bad interviews with him and have a bit of a vendetta?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

So... there seems to have been around 48 players at this camp.

Confirmed 11 were Ulster, 11 were Munster and 5 were Connacht. So that leaves 21 Leinster?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Does anyone know what specifically they're talking about when saying Heaslip lacks humility etc?

It sounds like some of these guys may have had bad interviews with him and have a bit of a vendetta?

None of the Leinster lads gave Conor George the time of day because he was grossly biased.

irishbucsfan

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Does anyone know what specifically they're talking about when saying Heaslip lacks humility etc?

It sounds like some of these guys may have had bad interviews with him and have a bit of a vendetta?

Some players make loads of time for the media/outsiders etc and will be talkative during interviews etc. Think the likes of Donncha O'Callaghan or Paulie. Not all players are like that, some are quite private.

When fans meet guys who aren't like that and don't go out of their way as much or give them interesting soundbites they can end up with a bit of a reputation. Generally it doesn't matter anywhere near as much as the media like to convince themselves it does.