Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

Zzippy

former total wrote: »

Noel Reid's injury opens the door for McCloskey alright.

Hopefully he and Fitzgerald keep up their form in the next few weeks and we have genuine options. Fitz doesn't seem to be a popular choice here but he's playing great rugby at 12.

I prefer Fitz on the wing but he has been playing well at 12 alright.
Even if Reid wasn't injured I don't think he'd be in the reckoning, McCloskey looks the real deal whereas Reid doesn't really impress me, and Marshall is also playing well.

bilston

former total wrote: »

Noel Reid's injury opens the door for McCloskey alright.

Aye, no doubt about it.

The Rape of Lucretia

former total wrote: »

Hopefully he and Fitzgerald keep up their form in the next few weeks and we have genuine options. Fitz doesn't seem to be a popular choice here but he's playing great rugby at 12.

He is indeed. I suspect Payne will be too close to the wire for fitness, if he makes it at all. And isnt an important enough player to give time right up to the wire to prove fitness and pick if he passes. So guess he isnt in the picture for Wales at least.

Fitz at 12, Hench at 13 could be a likely option depending how far away Joe feels McCloskey is from international rugby, System Joe, and being able to stand up to the Welsh backline. If the Fitz/Hench combo isnt delivering for him, then either bringing in McCloskey at 12, or restoring Henshaw to 12 with a proven fit again Payne, are his options. Fitz moving out the the wing the spin off depending on how the frst game wings go.
Cant see Keith featuring in any centre scenario.

The Lost Sheep

errlloyd wrote: »

Luke wing, mccloskey and Ringrose centre, henshaw fullback. (that is me in fantasy land I'd probably want another outrageous speeder on the other wing like Gilroy or Healy) Jackson at out half.

Im not saying it will be the team, I don't even know if it would be any good. But I think it could be dangerous.

Dangerous bad tbh...
Should we see a lot of changes and roll over to new players No. Not at all. We should see some changes but can we be realistic?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

If Schmidt goes with Earls in the centre again, regardless of who is injured, he should be sacked.

:pac:

jacothelad

former total wrote: »

Noel Reid's injury opens the door for McCloskey alright.

.

PMSL. I needed that. I'm just getting over a very unpleasant 'bug' and I needed cheered up. I'm still chuckling.

former total

bilston wrote: »

Aye, no doubt about it.

Just checking people were paying attention...

CMOTDibbler

jacothelad wrote: »

A lot of Trimble's caps were also as a sub, possibly only playing a few minutes in a game. I would suspect that Bowe was rarely a sub and rarely subbed off. The actual playing minutes of both players would be vastly different.

Twelve of Trimble's caps were as sub. Bowe has had no sub appearances that I can see going back into the mists of time. He has been subbed off though; not bored enough to check how many times, but very seldom afaik.

Utah_Saint

not sure if its been posted already but its confirmed that Bowe is out of the 6N.

MJohnston

Utah_Saint wrote: »

not sure if its been posted already but its confirmed that Bowe is out of the 6N.

More on that - http://www.the42.ie/tommy-bowe-miss-six-nations-2533342-Jan2016/?utm_source=twitter_self

1eg0a3xv7b82of

My team for wales

Zebo
Trimble
Marshall
MCCloskey
Fitz
Sexton
Reddan
Heaslip
Stander
OBrien
Ruddock
Toner
McGRath
Moore
Best

aimee1

Leandro Round Billboard wrote: »

My team for wales

Zebo
Trimble
Marshall
MCCloskey
Fitz
Sexton
Reddan
Heaslip
Stander
OBrien
Ruddock
Toner
McGRath
Moore
Best

Ruddock in 2nd row? Dear god No

b.gud

aimee1 wrote: »

Ruddock in 2nd row? Dear god No

I'd be more worried about Marty Moore as Hooker

Bazzo

b.gud wrote: »

I'd be more worried about Marty Moore as Hooker

Stander at 7 and O'Brien at 6?

aimee1

b.gud wrote: »

I'd be more worried about Marty Moore as Hooker

Read it the other way top down. Zebo at LH and Rory at FB. Moore on the right wing. Figure that team out Mr Gatland.

Quint2010

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Most sensible comment on the whole issue.


Far too much made of it. The interest dates from the amateur days when coaching and squad work work a fraction of todays, and having a leader, whether by example, in motivation, or by on pitch off the cuff decision making and stategy, mattered. It was also valued for its honourific element which fitted with the amateur ethos or recognition, role models, unpaid ambassadors, etc.
These days, they are all highly motivated, skilled professionals, with no stone left unturned in group synergy, knowing your role, and out there carrying our the scripted, drilled routines of a whole army of backteam staff, analysts, skills coaches, and fitness expert.
Captain is not much more than - the guy allowed to talk to the ref.

Don't agree with that at all. The captain is the one who has to deal with the media post and pre-match, makes the calls on whether to go for the corner or the posts, (eg Robshaw), is in charge of ad-hoc decisions on the pitch, gives the team talk under the posts when a score has been conceded etc. The captain is usually and automatic choice and is the go-to man when the chips are down. The choice of captain is critical in my view.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

ruddock well able for lock, he is a talented player. heaslip and pom would be well able as well.
The lines have blurred between 6 and lock since the introduction of lifters.

molloyjh

Assuming fitness to all below this is what I'd like to see against Wales:

McGrath Best Moore
Toner McCarthy
Ruddock Heaslip SOB

Murray Sexton
Fitzgerald Henshaw
Earls Kearney Trimble

Cronin, Healy, White, Ryan, Henry, Reddan, Jackson, Zebo

The only problem I can see with that is that we've no cover at 12 should Fitz get injured. I still wouldn't select Madigan over Jackson though, but Joe might.

former total

molloyjh wrote: »

Assuming fitness to all below this is what I'd like to see against Wales:

McGrath Best Moore
Toner McCarthy
Ruddock Heaslip SOB

Murray Sexton
Fitzgerald Henshaw
Earls Kearney Trimble

Cronin, Healy, White, Ryan, Henry, Reddan, Jackson, Zebo

The only problem I can see with that is that we've no cover at 12 should Fitz get injured. I still wouldn't select Madigan over Jackson though, but Joe might.

Yeah, I think that's a realistic team. Might see Ryan start ahead of McCarthy and I think Madigan will be on the bench. Ross will probably start if fit too.

Also, there appears to be a typo in your post. I can't see Dave Kearney anywhere.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Henderson has definitely been ruled out for the 6 Nations, but I think we knew that anyway.

Zzippy

Leandro Round Billboard wrote: »

My team for wales

Zebo
Trimble
Marshall
MCCloskey
Fitz
Sexton
Reddan
Heaslip
Stander
OBrien
Ruddock
Toner
McGRath
Moore
Best

So many things wrong with that team. Zebo ahead of Kearney/Henshaw - LOL
Reddan ahead of Murray - LMAO
Ruddock in the row - jesus!
Marshall also behind Henshaw, Fitz and Payne if he's fit in the Ireland reckoning

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

Assuming fitness to all below this is what I'd like to see against Wales:

McGrath Best Moore
Toner McCarthy
Ruddock Heaslip SOB

Murray Sexton
Fitzgerald Henshaw
Earls Kearney Trimble

Cronin, Healy, White, Ryan, Henry, Reddan, Jackson, Zebo

The only problem I can see with that is that we've no cover at 12 should Fitz get injured. I still wouldn't select Madigan over Jackson though, but Joe might.

Ryan starts ahead of McCarthy I'd say.

Also, in above scenario, if Fitz did get injured -> Henshaw goes to 12, Earls to 13, Zebo to 11.

awec

If I were to have my ideal side, it would be:

McGrath Best Moore
Toner Ryan
Ruddock Heaslip SOB

Murray Sexton
McCloskey Henshaw
Earls Payne Trimble

Cronin, Healy / Kilcoyne, Furlong, McCarthy, Henry, Marmion, Jackson, Zebo

Synode

awec wrote: »

If I were to have my ideal side, it would be:

McGrath Best Moore
Toner Ryan
Ruddock Heaslip SOB

Murray Sexton
McCloskey Henshaw
Earls Payne Trimble

Cronin, Healy / Kilcoyne, Furlong, McCarthy, Henry, Marmion, Jackson, Zebo

Zebo before Fitzgerald??

LostArt

molloyjh wrote: »

Assuming fitness to all below this is what I'd like to see against Wales:

McGrath Best Moore
Toner McCarthy
Ruddock Heaslip SOB

Murray Sexton
Fitzgerald Henshaw
Earls Kearney Trimble

Cronin, Healy, White, Ryan, Henry, Reddan, Jackson, Zebo

The only problem I can see with that is that we've no cover at 12 should Fitz get injured. I still wouldn't select Madigan over Jackson though, but Joe might.

This is almost exactly what I'd pick, but Ryan in for McCarthy. Fitz has been playing really well at 12 so I'd like to see him there but I wouldn't care if it was McCloskey.

Mahatma Geansai

awec wrote: »

If I were to have my ideal side, it would be:

McGrath Best Moore
Toner Ryan
Ruddock Heaslip SOB

Murray Sexton
McCloskey Henshaw
Earls Payne Trimble

Cronin, Healy / Kilcoyne, Furlong, McCarthy, Henry, Marmion, Jackson, Zebo

I think that Stander needs to be involved somewhere, but I'm quite happy with that side.

I really think that Zebo needs to be developed as a play-making and strike-running fullback, but that needs to happen at Munster first. Short of putting Madigan/Olding there, we have no outside back that has a combined passing and kicking game which approaches his.

Mahatma Geansai

LostArt wrote: »

This is almost exactly what I'd pick, but Ryan in for McCarthy. Fitz has been playing really well at 12 so I'd like to see him there but I wouldn't care if it was McCloskey.

Does Fitzgerald have the physicality to play 12 internationally? Even against Munster's turgid attack he missed 5 tackles.

awec

Synode wrote: »

Zebo before Fitzgerald??

Meh, there are arguments for both.

My selection will never happen though, it's just a team that I'd be interested to see.

Mr Tickle

awec wrote: »

If I were to have my ideal side, it would be:

McGrath Best Moore
Toner Ryan
Ruddock Heaslip SOB

Murray Sexton
McCloskey Henshaw
Earls Payne Trimble

Cronin, Healy / Kilcoyne, Furlong, McCarthy, Henry, Marmion, Jackson, Zebo

This but with Fitzgerald on the bench. I know Payne could move to cover centre but Joe seems to prefer making straight swaps rather than shuffling (i think. although i'm sure he has done a few times)

Also maybe Stander will edge his way in there somewhere.

b.gud

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Does Fitzgerald have the physicality to play 12 internationally? Even against Munster's turgid attack he missed 5 tackles.

He did a really great job against Bastareaud and Nonu in the Champions cup games which is about as physical a challenge as you can get

aimee1

Leandro Round Billboard wrote: »

ruddock well able for lock, he is a talented player. heaslip and pom would be well able as well.
The lines have blurred between 6 and lock since the introduction of lifters.

Its international rugby, against AWJ and Charteris most likely. No.

LostArt

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Does Fitzgerald have the physicality to play 12 internationally? Even against Munster's turgid attack he missed 5 tackles.

He was fine v Nonu in both games. I'd be more worried about him lasting 80mins tbh.

molloyjh

former total wrote: »

Yeah, I think that's a realistic team. Might see Ryan start ahead of McCarthy and I think Madigan will be on the bench. Ross will probably start if fit too.

Also, there appears to be a typo in your post. I can't see Dave Kearney anywhere.

He's right there at FB. You didn't think I selected Rob did you. Sheesh!

Deleted User wrote: »

Ryan starts ahead of McCarthy I'd say.

Also, in above scenario, if Fitz did get injured -> Henshaw goes to 12, Earls to 13, Zebo to 11.

Yeah I wasn't sure who to pick between Ryan and Maccer. Ryan is the better player generally but I think Maccers form recently has been better. He's been excellent for Leinster. Neither are particularly familiar with the set-up compared to the other either so there's really feck all between them.

awec wrote: »

If I were to have my ideal side, it would be:

McGrath Best Moore
Toner Ryan
Ruddock Heaslip SOB

Murray Sexton
McCloskey Henshaw
Earls Payne Trimble

Cronin, Healy / Kilcoyne, Furlong, McCarthy, Henry, Marmion, Jackson, Zebo

So Fitzgerald, the guy who played a massive hand in getting us back into the game against Argentina and who has been playing superbly for Leinster (turning Nonu inside out multiple times in the 2 games against Toulon) doesn't make the 23, but Zebo does despite very average performances for Munster and Ireland for the last while? While I at least understand the other selections I don't get that one at all.

LostArt wrote: »

He was fine v Nonu in both games. I'd be more worried about him lasting 80mins tbh.

He lasted 76 minutes in Toulon and 80 minutes in the Aviva. In fact other than a slight shoulder injury that forced him off (precautionary) against Treviso he's played all but 4 minutes of the 5 games he's played so far this season. And he's played 5 of the 8 games since Treviso. I wouldn't have too much of a concern over him there.

awec

There's little difference between Fitzgerald and Zebo overall really, except one covers centre and the other covers fullback. I wouldn't care which one was on the bench, but as I said my selection will never happen.

Fitzgerald was decent against Argentina but was pretty average to non-existent the rest of the games. His try scoring record is also woeful and cannot be completely overlooked. Zebo is not helped that the rest of the Munster back line is average, sometimes rubbish. Sure we keep hearing that provincial form is irrelevant when it comes to selections anyway .

madness

Tox56

awec wrote: »

There's little difference between Fitzgerald and Zebo overall really, except one covers centre and the other covers fullback. I wouldn't care which one was on the bench, but as I said my selection will never happen.

Fitzgerald was decent against Argentina but was pretty average to non-existent the rest of the games. His try scoring record is also woeful and cannot be completely overlooked. Zebo is not helped that the rest of the Munster back line is average, sometimes rubbish. Sure we keep hearing that provincial form is irrelevant when it comes to selections anyway .

Ah come on now, he was way more than "decent" against Argentina, and he was more than "average to non-existent" against Canada, in fact the argument used against him after the Canada game was more about the level of the opposition than the fact he didnt play that well, he was rightly singled out for his performance. I will never understand the apathy towards Fitzgerald, he scored a 40m solo try and created from nothing our only other try of the game in one of the biggest games in irish rugby history and he doesnt get more than a "decent"! If Olding or Ringrose came off the bench to put in that performance (and then played as well as Fitzerald has done since then) they'd be anointed as the saviour of Irish rugby

awec

He was good against Argentina but Luke Fitzgerald all too often fails to deliver anything other than "unseen work".

This argument is pointless though, my selection won't happen (it was honestly just me pointing out what I would do myself and have no expectation it will be a reality), Fitzgerald will continue to be picked. We'll have Henshaw and Payne in the centre if it's in any way possible and Schmidt will stick with Kearney at full back.

CatFromHue

Fitzgerald and Zebo are completely different players.

Zebo is a finisher who doesn't really create much whereas Fitzgerald is much more creative, he's able to play 12 to a high level for example, but can't finish anywhere near as good as Zebo.

bilston

If Payne does miss out on the first couple of games it will be interesting to see what Joe does.

I think his (not mine) order of midfield preferences will be...

12 Henshaw 13 Payne
12 Henshaw 13 Fitzgerald
12 McCloskey 13 Henshaw

That would be my guess. I'm not sure he would move Henshaw to 13 if Fitz was playing because Fitz has the game for 13, I'm not sure McCloskey does.

Of course he could stick to his guns and put Ealrs straight in as a replacement for Payne, but the fact Earls has been on the wing anytime I've watched Munster makes me think that that is unlikely.

former total

Fitzgerald suffers from the same problem as Rob Kearney on this forum; he's been around for ages and people just want to see new faces in the team. That's not really a basis for picking a team though.

I'd be very surprised if he's not in the 23 against Wales and he would be there very much on merit.

jm08

molloyjh wrote: »

So Fitzgerald, the guy who played a massive hand in getting us back into the game against Argentina and who has been playing superbly for Leinster (turning Nonu inside out multiple times in the 2 games against Toulon) doesn't make the 23, but Zebo does despite very average performances for Munster and Ireland for the last while? While I at least understand the other selections I don't get that one at all.

Apart from his impact in the Argentinian game (where he missed the one tackle he had to make) he was fairly average and many were questioning why he made the World Cup ahead of Andrew Trimble. He was well behind Earls in the pecking order.

Zebo's form for Munster hasn't been great (like a lot of players he may have a bit of a World Cup hangover) and reprogramming himself back from playing exclusively at fullback at the World Cup back to left wing is probably a factor not to mention his contract negotiations.

CatFromHue

Fitzgerald's form since the RWC has been excellent though. His move to 12 has seen him be one of the best centres on the pitch in most of those games, certainly the European ones anyway.

So much so I don't want to see him back at wing anymore.

Bazzo

jm08 wrote: »

Apart from his impact in the Argentinian game (where he missed the one tackle he had to make) he was fairly average and many were questioning why he made the World Cup ahead of Andrew Trimble. He was well behind Earls in the pecking order.

Zebo's form for Munster hasn't been great (like a lot of players he may have a bit of a World Cup hangover) and reprogramming himself back from playing exclusively at fullback at the World Cup back to left wing is probably a factor not to mention his contract negotiations.

Had to jump in as this might be the most outrageous post I've read yet on this forum. Fitzgerald and Best were, by a country mile, the best 2 players we had vs Argentina, besides that he was picked out for a good performance vs Canada. Fitzgerald, unlike Zebo as even you had to admit, has been in good form for Leinster since after the world cup.

Finally, we get it, you didn't like Zebo being played at full back. You can stop shoe horning it in to every post now.

jm08

former total wrote: »

Fitzgerald suffers from the same problem as Rob Kearney on this forum; he's been around for ages and people just want to see new faces in the team. That's not really a basis for picking a team though.

I'd be very surprised if he's not in the 23 against Wales and he would be there very much on merit.

I for one am delighted to see Fitz back playing well. I think his cameo in the World Cup is over hyped though.

former total

jm08 wrote: »

Zebo's form for Munster hasn't been great (like a lot of players he may have a bit of a World Cup hangover) and reprogramming himself back from playing exclusively at fullback at the World Cup back to left wing is probably a factor not to mention his contract negotiations.

I marvel at how you keep slating the Munster guys as being so mentally weak. It's very harsh.

aimee1

jm08 wrote: »

Apart from his impact in the Argentinian game (where he missed the one tackle he had to make) he was fairly average and many were questioning why he made the World Cup ahead of Andrew Trimble. He was well behind Earls in the pecking order.

Zebo's form for Munster hasn't been great (like a lot of players he may have a bit of a World Cup hangover) and reprogramming himself back from playing exclusively at fullback at the World Cup back to left wing is probably a factor not to mention his contract negotiations.

Would this be the impact he made in scoring one try, and making the other with a break and offload. God forbid we ever want a player in an Ireland Jersey capable of ACTUALLY doing such things. If some of the others who actually started the game played anywhere remotely to that level from the start a semi final was possible

Fitz hasnt had a problem reprogramming himself into the Leinster system, in fact he has been quite good since the RWC.

jm08

Bazzo wrote: »

Had to jump in as this might be the most outrageous post I've read yet on this forum. Fitzgerald and Best were, by a country mile, the best 2 players we had vs Argentina, besides that he was picked out for a good performance vs Canada. Fitzgerald, unlike Zebo as even you had to admit, has been in good form for Leinster since after the world cup.

Finally, we get it, you didn't like Zebo being played at full back. You can stop shoe horning it in to every post now.

I have said he is in good form now.

If he played so well against Canada, Why did Schmidt drop him out of the starting lineup and move Earls (recovering from a broken jaw) into centre along with Robbie Henshaw.

And finally, I will continue to state that Zebo was played at fullback and not on the wing for the World Cup until posters here continue to ignore that that is what happened.

awec

former total wrote: »

Fitzgerald suffers from the same problem as Rob Kearney on this forum; he's been around for ages and people just want to see new faces in the team. That's not really a basis for picking a team though.

I'd be very surprised if he's not in the 23 against Wales and he would be there very much on merit.

This is total rubbish to be fair.

Fitzgerald has never been universally loved and never really lived up to all his hype. I think injury has seriously reduced him as a player. On this forum especially there seems to be an inflated opinion of his actual ability.

People want to see someone different to Kearney because Kearney is just a safe but completely unexciting option who isn't even playing well enough that you'd consider him undroppable.

To dismiss it as people just wanting a new face is nonsense.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

There's little difference between Fitzgerald and Zebo overall really, except one covers centre and the other covers fullback. I wouldn't care which one was on the bench, but as I said my selection will never happen.

Fitzgerald was decent against Argentina but was pretty average to non-existent the rest of the games. His try scoring record is also woeful and cannot be completely overlooked. Zebo is not helped that the rest of the Munster back line is average, sometimes rubbish. Sure we keep hearing that provincial form is irrelevant when it comes to selections anyway .

The rest of the games? He played really well against Canada and then only had 4 minutes against Italy and 18 against France. I don't know where you get some of this stuff from.

Also nobody has ever said provincial form was irrelevant, just that it isn't the only consideration.

jm08

former total wrote: »

I marvel at how you keep slating the Munster guys as being so mentally weak. It's very harsh.

I'm not slating the guy for being mentally weak. He has just spent a couple of months away from Munster playing in a position that he does not normally play in. Other issues for Munster backs are a new centre partnership and the loss of Felix Jones at fullback.

The backs need a bit of time to gel. I'd regard contract negotiations as distracting more than indicating someone is mentally weak.

gamma001

jm08 wrote: »

If he played so well against Canada, Why did Schmidt drop him out of the starting lineup and move Earls (recovering from a broken jaw) into centre along with Robbie Henshaw.

Because Fitz is primarily a 12 and JS was giving game time for the other center covers against Romania and by the time Italy came around Henshaw (our first choice 12!!) hadn't player a word cup game yet.