Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

The Rape of Lucretia

Thanks. I am slow.


Joe will be consistent.
He will pick Murray. Pick Ryan, Stander and Earls as backup/maybe bench/maybe start depending on injuries. Killer maybe. Zebo will be kept in the the greater squad but then cut.
They are the only players that are up to the level of being involved or close to international rugby.
Leinster have, and had last year, far more players of that level. Joe looked beyond the MOC veneered performances and picked the right players.
And will do the same with the handful of Munster one this year.
Perfectly consistent.

The Rape of Lucretia

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Thanks. I am slow.


Joe will be consistent.
He will pick Murray. Pick Ryan, Stander and Earls as backup/maybe bench/maybe start depending on injuries. Killer maybe. Zebo will be kept in the the greater squad but then cut.
They are the only players that are up to the level of being involved or close to international rugby.
Leinster have, and had last year, far more players of that level. Joe looked beyond the MOC veneered performances and picked the right players.
And will do the same with the handful of Munster one this year.
Perfectly consistent.

I think the pack almost picks itself now (people will quibble but being realistic):

McGrath, Best, Moore, Toner, Ryan, Ruddock, SOB, Heaslip

Then in the backline we've Murray, Sexton, Kearney who will start at 9, 10, 15. Put the house on it.

Henshaw also will start if he's fit but I think it's unclear where at the moment. The wings and the other centre spot are up for grabs but if you're talking about Munster representation I can only see Earls challenging for a wing spot.

The Rape of Lucretia

Harley Uptight Light wrote: »

I think the pack almost picks itself now (people will quibble but being realistic):

McGrath, Best, Moore, Toner, Ryan, Ruddock, SOB, Heaslip

Then in the backline we've Murray, Sexton, Kearney who will start at 9, 10, 15. Put the house on it.

Henshaw also will start if he's fit but I think it's unclear where at the moment. The wings and the other centre spot are up for grabs but if you're talking about Munster representation I can only see Earls challenging for a wing spot.

Thats it.

Remaining permutations are :
12 Henshaw 13 Payne
12 Fitz 13 Henshaw
12 McCloskey 13 Henshaw

Trimble is a certainty.
Fitz on the wing if not at 12.
Dave on the wing if Fitz is in the centre.

Tigerandahalf

I wouldn't be rushing to involve D Ryan. He is too injury prone to be wrapping your lineout plans around. Granted Toner will be the main man and I expect McCarthy to join him. Muldowney should have been brought. Very consistent performer who does the basics very well. Very reliant on Toner stepping up.

Buer

Ryan has the pedigree but, even allowing for injuries, his form has been only decent/solid this season. Given how good he can be, I think he's in with a shot but McCarthy is outperforming him easily this season. Muldowney should be in the mix if any of those 3 get a knock.

The likes of UD and AOC would be deserving of a good run out with the extended squad too. Ryan is now 32 and still spends half his time in the treatment room. With McCarthy being 34 also, we're going to really need some locks coming through. Even Dan Tuohy is now the wrong side of 30.

As vocal as some are about Henderson being a 6, we've no option but to use him at lock and could do with one of those younger guys like UD, AOC, Kearney etc. coming through very soon. Lock could be a position of weakness very rapidly if they don't.

The Pheasant2

Yeah I like Muldowney as a player and in spite of his recent form I would've been hesitant to include him in prospective squads given his age profile. However with the likes of Hendo, Tuohy et al injured and D Ryan's mediocre form I think Aly should be brought in

(That being said I still think Ryan should certainly be included also as we know what he's capable of)

CMOTDibbler

Muldowney is a very good player but he tends to be a bit of a penalty machine Imo.

Mahatma Geansai

Buer wrote: »

Ryan has the pedigree but, even allowing for injuries, his form has been only decent/solid this season. Given how good he can be, I think he's in with a shot but McCarthy is outperforming him easily this season. Muldowney should be in the mix if any of those 3 get a knock.

The likes of UD and AOC would be deserving of a good run out with the extended squad too. Ryan is now 32 and still spends half his time in the treatment room. With McCarthy being 34 also, we're going to really need some locks coming through. Even Dan Tuohy is now the wrong side of 30.

As vocal as some are about Henderson being a 6, we've no option but to use him at lock and could do with one of those younger guys like UD, AOC, Kearney etc. coming through very soon. Lock could be a position of weakness very rapidly if they don't.

Henderson will be a lock for Ireland. It makes no sense to play him in the backrow.

Mike McCarthy's legs are gone after 50 minutes when playing for Leinster; I can't see him being effective for more than 30 minutes for Ireland.

aimee1

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Henderson will be a lock for Ireland. It makes no sense to play him in the backrow.

Mike McCarthy's legs are gone after 50 minutes when playing for Leinster; I can't see him being effective for more than 30 minutes for Ireland.

Its Toner and Ryan with McCarthy on the bench with Henderson injured. Unless Tuohy gets picked but when POC got injured JS called up MMcC. And Maccer has been excellent for Leinster this season.

.ak

Yeah after the weekend (so far) my picks haven't changed. McGrath at loosehead, McCarthy at lock, Ruddock at 6, Fitzgerald or DK at 11, Trimble at 14, mccloskey at 12, stander at 20.

Only position I'm not sure of is tighthead.

Zzippy

aimee1 wrote: »

He must have signed for ikon during the week so.

Hardly a shocker to claim one of the best backrowers in the country should be considered for selection.

Heaslip, SOB, Ruddock, Stander, Henry. 4 of those 5 in match day squads.

TOD should be in the conversation too. He was outstanding against Ulster. Munster really missed him when he went off today.

aimee1

Zzippy wrote: »

TOD should be in the conversation too. He was outstanding against Ulster. Munster really missed him when he went off today.

of course, just cant see past the 5 i named for wales barring injuries

Buer

Zzippy wrote: »

TOD should be in the conversation too. He was outstanding against Ulster. Munster really missed him when he went off today.

He won't be, in fairness. He has 100 minutes of rugby in 5 months and now has another knock to deal with.

Even when TOD is fully fit, he's still coming in behind those already named. It's a funny one. With Munster being so poor during his injury spell, his talent and quality seems to have been multiplied in the minds of many. Whilst his injury against Wales was horrific, it was commonly believed that it was going to be his only start of the RWC warm ups and he was likely to be one of the first names cut.

Really good player but was always a slight step down from the big 6 back row players we have (Heaslip, POM, Henry, SOB, Henderson, Ruddock) who have played against and delivered against top level test opposition.

The Rape of Lucretia

Buer wrote: »

Really good player but was always a slight step down from the big 6 back row players we have (Heaslip, POM, Henry, SOB, Henderson, Ruddock) who have played against and delivered against top level test opposition.

Mr O'Donnell is a long way off. You could add Murphy to Buer's list above as he has always been ahead of O'Donnell. Making him 8th is in the backrow rankings. VDF will not feature this session, but could see him also leaping over O'Donnell over the next year.

Zzippy wrote: »

TOD should be in the conversation too. He was outstanding against Ulster.

Not really though.
For me, he is a good example of Munster's problems. Even their better players are really well down the rankings even on the Irish scene.

wp_rathead

wp_rathead wrote: »

venjur is the only poster I've seen suggesting Reddan could start ahead of Murray- thought Murray had a decent game today considering what was going on around him. Was his first game back since Leicester away

I don't think Reddan is the better player, Murray has a lot more to his game. But Reddan is in very good form and I wouldn't be surprised to see him start one or two of the games (this wouldn't be unusual in any six nations).

Murray was good today surrounded by terrible, but it's hard to say where he is exactly form wise as his performance level this season whilst consistent hasn't been electric, and he has had time out with injury. Reddan is picking up MOTM performances on the other hand and is consistently top drawer in recent months.

Either way - Murray is first choice, not disputing that - but Reddan is not a name I'd worry about on the team-sheet.

freyners

CMOTDibbler wrote:

Muldowney is a very good player but he tends to be a bit of a penalty machine Imo.

How so. I wouldnt have him down as one of the lads who have problems with discipline

Bazzo

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I wouldn't be rushing to involve D Ryan. He is too injury prone to be wrapping your lineout plans around. Granted Toner will be the main man and I expect McCarthy to join him. Muldowney should have been brought. Very consistent performer who does the basics very well. Very reliant on Toner stepping up.

He's also a strong carrier and more than capable of linking up with other players. I remember watching a match not too long ago where the BBC commentators couldn't get over how much ball he was seeing and commented that he was distributing more like a centre than a second row.

The faithful have been calling for his inclusion for a while but unfortunately it looks like he doesn't feature in Joe's plans. Dillane does though, and he also looks like a promising player.

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Muldowney is a very good player but he tends to be a bit of a penalty machine Imo.

Really? Having watched most of Connacht's games over the years(the few that are actually televised....) that never stood out to me.

CMOTDibbler

Bazzo wrote: »

Really? Having watched most of Connacht's games over the years(the few that are actually televised....) that never stood out to me.

You're probably right. I'm really only basing it on the last few matches I've watched against Leinster and Ulster where I recall him being penalised a few times.

Clegg

Joe is going to have a lot of work on his hands to whip some of these players into shape. It's a joke that he was being criticised when you see the state of some of the provinces.

Rightwing

Clegg wrote: »

Joe is going to have a lot of work on his hands to whip some of these players into shape. It's a joke that he was being criticised when you see the state of some of the provinces.

The provinces are weak. I predicted the decline a few years back.

The good news for Schmidt is that France/Eng won't be able to play SH players, so this will level the playing in a big way. That said, I don't expect Fr/Eng to be as poor again this year as they have been recently.

Clegg

Clegg wrote: »

Joe is going to have a lot of work on his hands to whip some of these players into shape. It's a joke that he was being criticised when you see the state of some of the provinces.

the success of the provinces does not give the full story of the talent available for the national setup its completely different

Rightwing wrote: »

The provinces are weak. I predicted the decline a few years back.

The good news for Schmidt is that France/Eng won't be able to play SH players, so this will level the playing in a big way. That said, I don't expect Fr/Eng to be as poor again this year as they have been recently.

in fairness every team in the 6 nations have sh players playing for them

Vetinarugbian

Marmion, Hanrahan, Fitz , McCloskey, Ringrose, Gilroy, Henshaw ................................... Imagine that!!!

aimee1

Vetinarugbian wrote: »

Marmion, Hanrahan, Fitz , McCloskey, Ringrose, Gilroy, Henshaw ................................... Imagine that!!!

JS shakes his head, furiously .........

Clegg

Hanrahan?

Two better 10's than him playing in Ireland right now.

dtpc191991

Jackson has to be second choice 10 now. He has much better game management than the other options and has proved he can land high pressure kicks to win games.

former total

dtpc191991 wrote: »

Jackson has to be second choice 10 now. He has much better game management than the other options and has proved he can land high pressure kicks to win games.

Has he?

If you base your opinion on today- yes.
If you base it on last week- no.

Jury is still out on that one and very much out on who is second choice.

The Rape of Lucretia

former total wrote: »

Has he?

If you base your opinion on today- yes.
If you base it on last week- no.

Jury is still out on that one and very much out on who is second choice.

Jackson's history is that he cannot be reliable on high pressure (or even low pressure, easy) kicks. Check his stats. One game does not a summer make.

irishbucsfan

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Jackson's history is that he cannot be reliable on high pressure (or even low pressure, easy) kicks. Check his stats. One game does not a summer make.

That's not actually his history at all though, of course. He's been a very good kicker since he was a teenager.

case885

The Rape of Lucretia wrote:

Jackson's history is that he cannot be reliable on high pressure (or even low pressure, easy) kicks. Check his stats. One game does not a summer make.

And sexton hasn't been prone to missing a high pressure kick? :pac

molloyjh

case885 wrote: »

And sexton hasn't been prone to missing a high pressure kick? :pac

He's made more than he's missed.

shuffol

I don't think Jackson has a habit of missing high pressure kicks, his problem has generally been when he hasn't been kicking regularly he seems to struggle, has started a few seasons off a bit slowly. He hasn't had that many crucial kicks with Pienaar being there but ones that stick to mind are today obviously and the touchline kick to salvage a draw with Munster at the end of last season.

The Rape of Lucretia

case885 wrote: »

And sexton hasn't been prone to missing a high pressure kick? :pac

I agree. He has. But he gets a good proportion of the easier ones, and some of the high pressure ones.
Jackson misses too high a % of both.
He may have been good in his teens, but not since his teens. Sure, he can have a good day, they all can (Keatley excepted), but over the last few years his result from the tee are not consistent enough not to be a weakness at international level.

irishbucsfan

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I agree. He has. But he gets a good proportion of the easier ones, and some of the high pressure ones.
Jackson misses too high a % of both.
He may have been good in his teens, but not since his teens. Sure, he can have a good day, they all can (Keatley excepted), but over the last few years his result from the tee are not consistent enough not to be a weakness at international level.

Examples of high pressure kicks from kickable positions that he has missed?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Is there any way at all we could pass Pienaar off as Conor Murray for the 6 Nations. Grow the hair out a bit, tell him to adopt a look of permanent confusion/sleepiness. Himself and Jackson would make a great 9/10 partnership for Ireland

Rightwing

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Examples of high pressure kicks from kickable positions that he has missed?

The 1 v the ABs. His most important kick. No one should ask this question because of that dreadful kick.

irishbucsfan

Rightwing wrote: »

The 1 v the ABs. His most important kick. No one should ask this question because of that dreadful kick.

We're not talking about the same player

bilston

I think Jackson's goal kicking has been much more reliable this season. It's probably down to the fact that he is now Ulster's front line kicker. I would be interested to see his stats for the season, especially the last 6 weeks.

corny

Kicking aside (not that i agree Jackson is a poor kicker), Madigan, Hanrahan and Keatley aren't even close to Jackson in terms of game management. Madigan and Keatley never will be either.

Buer

Vetinarugbian wrote: »

Marmion, Hanrahan, Fitz , McCloskey, Ringrose, Gilroy, Henshaw ................................... Imagine that!!!

I'm imagining.

They'd get f*cking pasted.

BoardsMember

Hadn't really seen O'Halloran before, he looks a pretty good player based on todays performance.

Bazzo

BoardsMember wrote: »

Hadn't really seen O'Halloran before, he looks a pretty good player based on todays performance.

He is. Excluding Henshaw and Payne I'd have him as second choice for Ireland atm.

Stheno

Bazzo wrote: »

He is. Excluding Henshaw and Payne I'd have him as second choice for Ireland atm.

Was he out for a few games?

Bazzo

Stheno wrote: »

Was he out for a few games?

No, he's been the first choice 15 all season with no injuries AFAIK(or maybe something very minor that he was out for a week or something).

He's been in excellent form as well, himself and Muldowney have consistently been Connacht's best performers since the season started.

Bazzo

Bazzo wrote: »

himself and Muldowney have consistently been Connacht's best performers since the season started.

And that's saying a lot considering some of the bloody good displays Connacht have delivered this season. Would love to see due recognition head west for the 6N.

Stheno

Bazzo wrote: »

No, he's been the first choice 15 all season with no injuries AFAIK(or maybe something very minor that he was out for a week or something).

He's been in excellent form as well, himself and Muldowney have consistently been Connacht's best performers since the season started.

Ah thanks I'm just getting to know the team this year, have seen maybe three matches on tv, and was at the leinsterr game

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I don't know if it's coincidence or what but the best Irish players this season are ones who weren't involved in the WC.
It probably is a combination of not having the WC to distract/tire them and then for a few being given the opportunity to get a good run of games at their respective provinces when WC players were absent.

Don't think it will make all that much difference come 6 Nations time but a few guys, like O'Halloran have definitely taken their opportunities this season to get their names in the conversation for Irish selection.

connachta

Deleted User wrote: »

And that's saying a lot considering some of the bloody good displays Connacht have delivered this season. Would love to see due recognition head west for the 6N.

Hell no, too many crucial games to win for Connacht during 6 nations period

awec

Centre is going to be really interesting because there is absolutely no way Payne gets picked at 13 for Ulster right now never mind Ireland.

aimee1

awec wrote: »

Centre is going to be really interesting because there is absolutely no way Payne gets picked at 13 for Ulster right now never mind Ireland.

Looking at how its shaping up with injuries/bans i reckon v wales will be

Mcgrath, best, ross
Toner, mccarthy
Ruddock, sob, heaslip

Murray, sexton

DK, mccloskey, henshaw, trimble, RK

Bench - Healy, cronin, moore, tuohy, stander, reddan, fitz and madigan (versatility)

Ryan, Ross, Payne, Healy injuries could alter this but its looking very likely to be close to that

2nd row is a concern and half back

CatFromHue

I updated the wing table with the ESPN stats, interesting reading I think.