Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

jacothelad

Leandro Round Billboard wrote: »

I agree, Murray for instance would have to completely forget what the game of rugby is before Ireland could afford to drop him from the first 15 and even then:)
Murray is in a different league to anything Ireland has or ever has had at 9.

Ireland have had many scrum halves as good as or better than Murray. Colin Patterson, John Robbie, Andy Mulligan (Lion's captain), Roger Young, Johnny Moloney. Lions all. then there were Ireland players like Ernie Strathdee - scrum half during Irelands Grand Slam and championship years of 1948 and 1949.

aimee1 wrote: »

Looking at how its shaping up with injuries/bans i reckon v wales will be

Mcgrath, best, ross
Toner, mccarthy
Ruddock, sob, heaslip

Murray, sexton

DK, mccloskey, henshaw, trimble, RK

Bench - Healy, cronin, moore, tuohy, stander, reddan, fitz and madigan (versatility)

Ryan, Ross, Payne, Healy injuries could alter this but its looking very likely to be close to that

2nd row is a concern and half back

Tuohy is injured. Broken ankle I think. I know this is from the far left field as a thought and I haven't considered it's full implications but the 2 best second rows at Ulster excluding Tuohy and F.V.D.M. are Alan O'Connor and ..wait for it......Robbie Diack. Every time he plays there he is amazingly effective. He's 6'5" and 18stones + and a brilliant l/o forward. Also when he replaced Stevenson on Sunday our scrum tightened up immediately. He also is of course a very mobile player and could bring something different. I do realise he has flaws but.....Just a thought

aimee1

jacothelad wrote: »

Tuohy is injured. Broken ankle I think. I know this is from the far left field as a thought and I haven't considered it's full implications but the 2 best second rows at Ulster excluding Tuohy and F.V.D.M. are Alan O'Connor and ..wait for it......Robbie Diack. Every time he plays there he is amazingly effective. He's 6'5" and 18stones + and a brilliant l/o forward. Also when he replaced Stevenson on Sunday our scrum tightened up immediately. He also is of course a very mobile player and could bring something different. I do realise he has flaws but.....Just a thought

Completely forgot about tuohy. We are struggling at second row if ryan isnt fit

Extended squad was announced last year on Jan 22nd if anyone is as impatient as I am

bilston

Deleted User wrote: »

Extended squad was announced last year on Jan 22nd if anyone is as impatient as I am

Champions Cup matches this weekend (15/16/17 Jan) and next weekend (22/23/24 Jan). First match Sat 6th Feb so I'd expect it on Monday 25th. But then the players may actually go into camp that day so Joe may call it before Rd 6.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

jacothelad wrote: »

Ireland have had many scrum halves as good as or better than Murray. Colin Patterson, John Robbie, Andy Mulligan (Lion's captain), Roger Young, Johnny Moloney. Lions all. then there were Ireland players like Ernie Strathdee - scrum half during Irelands Grand Slam and championship years of 1948 and 1949.


Tuohy is injured. Broken ankle I think. I know this is from the far left field as a thought and I haven't considered it's full implications but the 2 best second rows at Ulster excluding Tuohy and F.V.D.M. are Alan O'Connor and ..wait for it......Robbie Diack. Every time he plays there he is amazingly effective. He's 6'5" and 18stones + and a brilliant l/o forward. Also when he replaced Stevenson on Sunday our scrum tightened up immediately. He also is of course a very mobile player and could bring something different. I do realise he has flaws but.....Just a thought

add bradley and stringer to your list and you have every 9 who ever played for Ireland. But Why stop there, add reddan to complete the list of better 9's then Murray.

jacothelad

Leandro Round Billboard wrote: »

add bradley and stringer to your list and you have every 9 who ever played for Ireland. But Why stop there, add reddan to complete the list of better 9's then Murray.

I actually posted the names of guys who were as good as or in at least 2 cases, better than Murray. Guys who played for the Lions as well as playing for and in some cases captaining Ireland. If you think Murray is Ireland's best ever scrum half, your standards are very low....or the world of the scrum half is a stranger to your life.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

jacothelad wrote: »

I actually posted the names of guys who were as good as or in at least 2 cases, better than Murray. Guys who played for the Lions as well as playing for and in some cases captaining Ireland. If you think Murray is Ireland's best ever scrum half, your standards are very low....or the world of the scrum half is a stranger to your life.

But Murray is a Lion, 2 times 6 nation champion, how could Murray not be our best ever 9.
Name another 9 who was better, but also has
A) More than twenty Irish caps and/or
Footage actually exists of them.

aimee1

Leandro Round Billboard wrote: »

But Murray is a Lion, 2 times 6 nation champion, how could Murray not be our best ever 9.
Name another 9 who was better, but also has
A) More than twenty Irish caps and/or
Footage actually exists of them.

does george hook recounting a story from 1923 count as footage ?

The Rape of Lucretia

aimee1 wrote: »

does george hook recounting a story from 1923 count as footage ?

Of course. The images he will include of Napoleon, Julius Cesar, and the Willow Park under 9s, are more powerful than any footage.

ps. and naturally, the Battle of the Somme.

salmocab

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Of course. The images he will include of Napoleon, Julius Cesar, and the Willow Park under 9s, are more powerful than any footage.

ps. and naturally, the Battle of the Somme.

and a Churchill speech, god he loves Churchill.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

The best I ever saw of hook was the gay marriage debate on the late late.
When he recounted the story of his daughter coming home in the 80s/90s to say she was going to get married and how happy he was until she said she was marring a protestant and how upset he had become on hearing this.
And then how he had changed and evolved to accept this protestant man into his family.
Hook probably at his most pompous and unintended funniest.

aimee1

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Of course. The images he will include of Napoleon, Julius Cesar, and the Willow Park under 9s, are more powerful than any footage.

ps. and naturally, the Battle of the Somme.

and it starts off the speech with "ah listen here mcgurk"

Bridge93

I've convinced myself Stringer would have at most half the starts he got for Ireland if Ciaran Scally hadn't had his career so cruelly cut short

Utah_Saint

Are there any 'Very Promising' SH's coming through the academies at the minute?

Its a little worrying as we do not yet have a proper understudy to Murray?! I believe ulster p*ssed away an opportunity to get a promising scrumy shadowing pienaar.

bilston

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Are there any 'Very Promising' SH's coming through the academies at the minute?

Its a little worrying as we do not yet have a proper understudy to Murray?! I believe ulster p*ssed away an opportunity to get a promising scrumy shadowing pienaar.

Luke McGrath will come good.

Journeyman_1

bilston wrote: »

Luke McGrath will come good.

He appears to have sorted out his passing anyway, which was his main defect.

freyners

Mcgrath has come on leaps and bounds and Marmion Is slowly improving on the aspects like kicking and his delivery. Two very good players that Joe can help mould

Utah_Saint

They probably need some game time at international level. Murray was playing International rugby long before he was ready and it worked out in the end..

mfceiling

MG posted a while back that Duncan Williams was about 4th in the queue for scrum half's and could be called into a training squad....how's that working out?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Interesting to see Farrell has been sent to Munster to "advise".

aimee1

mfceiling wrote: »

MG posted a while back that Duncan Williams was about 4th in the queue for scrum half's and could be called into a training squad....how's that working out?

About as well as dave foley ahead of Toner and duncan casey ahead of cronin.

aimee1

aimee1 wrote: »

About as well as dave foley ahead of Toner and duncan casey ahead of cronin.

Was it last years 6N or the one before where it was "fact" that Foley would be in place ahead of Toner by?

Either way, regarding the Scrum Half debate. Reddan and Boss came to the fore later in their careers, Murray is a bit of an anomaly. We've 3 good young SH spread throughout the provinces in a position with a fairly steep learning curve and a requirement for a heavily varied skill set. They will develop I'm sure into good internationals.

Murray given his age and relatively good health is likely to keep any newcomers out of the team for some time. Reddan is still firing on all cylinders so were not in the worst shape here imo.

aimee1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Was it last years 6N or the one before where it was "fact" that Foley would be in place ahead of Toner by?

Either way, regarding the Scrum Half debate. Reddan and Boss came to the fore later in their careers, Murray is a bit of an anomaly. We've 3 good young SH spread throughout the provinces in a position with a fairly steep learning curve and a requirement for a heavily varied skill set. They will develop I'm sure into good internationals.

Murray given his age and relatively good health is likely to keep any newcomers out of the team for some time. Reddan is still firing on all cylinders so were not in the worst shape here imo.

Foley started v georgia in november 2014 so was a shoe in to replace Toner at that stage

The Rape of Lucretia

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Interesting to see Farrell has been sent to Munster to "advise".

Bit like the Troika coming to Dublin in December 2010....
"Sure, sure, Brian, you are still in charge (we will tell you what you will be doing of your own free will though...).

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Bit like the Troika coming to Dublin in December 2010....
"Sure, sure, Brian, you are still in charge (we will tell you what you will be doing of your own free will though...).

Pretty much.

He'll be consulting in all aspects, not just defense, apparently.

I wonder is they why he's not joining up with Ireland until after the 6 Nations? Did the IRFU make it part of the deal and are trying to make it look like a spur of the moment thing rather than them panicking about what's happening at Munster.

Neil3030

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Pretty much.

He'll be consulting in all aspects, not just defense, apparently.

I wonder is they why he's not joining up with Ireland until after the 6 Nations? Did the IRFU make it part of the deal and are trying to make it look like a spur of the moment thing rather than them panicking about what's happening at Munster.

Legally he can't coach a competitor to England until a certain time has elapsed.

But there's nothing to stop him coaching a chunk of a competitor's players at provincial level :pac:

jm08

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Pretty much.

He'll be consulting in all aspects, not just defense, apparently.

I wonder is they why he's not joining up with Ireland until after the 6 Nations? Did the IRFU make it part of the deal and are trying to make it look like a spur of the moment thing rather than them panicking about what's happening at Munster.

When Farrell was appointed to ireland, Munster had just defeated Ulster Away. His exit from England prevents him coaching a team that would be competing against England (usually a year).

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Pretty much.

He'll be consulting in all aspects, not just defense, apparently.

I wonder is they why he's not joining up with Ireland until after the 6 Nations? Did the IRFU make it part of the deal and are trying to make it look like a spur of the moment thing rather than them panicking about what's happening at Munster.

He has a long gardening leave (6 months) with restrictive elements regarding international teams. He is probably still employed and being paid by the RFU so that he can't work internationally but wouldn't be restricted from taking up a role with Munster in their current crisis.

salmocab

Its a condition of Farrells gardening leave from England. Its a good move for Munster I would think but Id wonder how it came about and how much Foley had to say about it.

jm08

salmocab wrote: »

Its a condition of Farrells gardening leave from England. Its a good move for Munster I would think but Id wonder how it came about and how much Foley had to say about it.

All pro team appointments are made by Professional Games Committee which Foley is on.

salmocab

jm08 wrote: »

All pro team appointments are made by Professional Games Committee which Foley is on.

Im not suggesting hes not happy or anything but Id still be interested in how it came about but sure we will probably never know.

stephen_n

I'd imagine Foely will be glad of the help from someone who is not a direct threat to his job. I see David Wallace suggesting bring DK in as a consultant, doubt AF would be to happy with uncle Deccie looking over his shoulder.

Rattlehead_ie

To be honest, and I think Murray Kinsella pointed it out, one of the most upset people post the SF game was in fact A.Foley himself. I'm sure he would rather the assistance and guidance to be able to bring the club back to being a powerhouse.

dub_skav

Neil3030 wrote: »

But there's nothing to stop him coaching a chunk of a competitor's players at provincial level :pac:

I wouldn't call Conor Murray a chunk

kuang1

Rattlehead_ie wrote: »

To be honest, and I think Murray Kinsella pointed it out, one of the most upset people post the SF game was in fact A.Foley himself.

I find the need to point this out a little unnecessary.

I don't think anyone in these parts believes Foley doesn't care about Munster or is maliciously leading them into the abyss. The man would probably give his left and right ball for Munster.
Unfortunately for him, love for the club does not directly guarantee an ability to lead it adequately.

I hope he does welcome Farrell with open arms. (We know he will in public, but hopefully it's not platitudes)

I think we'll all have to wait at least 5 years for an autobiography to come out from one of the current players before we've any chance of finding out all of the ins and outs of recent weeks.

bilston

Rattlehead_ie wrote: »

To be honest, and I think Murray Kinsella pointed it out, one of the most upset people post the SF game was in fact A.Foley himself. I'm sure he would rather the assistance and guidance to be able to bring the club back to being a powerhouse.

It's probably more for the Munster thread but the truth the players just aren't as good as the team that had Horan, Flannery, Hayes, DOC, POC, Quinny, Wally, Leamy, Stringer, ROG, Mafi and Tipoki. Outside of Earls, Zebo, POM and maybe Murray would any of the current side be picked ahead of that lot. You can blame the coach all you like but it just isn't a vintage Munster side.

Rattlehead_ie

kuang1 wrote: »

I find the need to point this out a little unnecessary.

I don't think anyone in these parts believes Foley doesn't care about Munster or is maliciously leading them into the abyss.

Agreed kuang1, but from a previous one or two posts querying if Foley had any choice in the appointment in maybe suggesting that he was forced or wouldn't be happy with it, I was simply pointing out that I couldn't see any reason why he wouldn't be happy with it.

aimee1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He has a long gardening leave (6 months) with restrictive elements regarding international teams. He is probably still employed and being paid by the RFU so that he can't work internationally but wouldn't be restricted from taking up a role with Munster in their current crisis.

Is it gardening leave or just terms of a severance package that he gets £x on condition. If Gardening leave then that would imply he is still employed by RFU but now working for IRFU???

F1 engineers who switch teams usually get a year gardening leave so not to take company secrets and technical info to their next team.

kuang1

Rattlehead_ie wrote: »

Agreed kuang1, but from a previous one or two posts querying if Foley had any choice in the appointment in maybe suggesting that he was forced or wouldn't be happy with it, I was simply pointing out that I couldn't see any reason why he wouldn't be happy with it.

Fair enough. Although (and I'm playing devil's advocate here) IF (big IF) Foley was a particularly obstinate sort, then he could view Farrell's appointment as confirmation that people think he's sh1t at his job. And in turn become even more obstinate!

(I can't even keep a straight face as I write that!!! Apologies!)

sydthebeat

aimee1 wrote: »

Is it gardening leave or just terms of a severance package that he gets £x on condition. If Gardening leave then that would imply he is still employed by RFU but now working for IRFU???

F1 engineers who switch teams usually get a year gardening leave so not to take company secrets and technical info to their next team.

thats pretty much it, no international involvement till next season.

but free to work away with provinces.

connemara man

sydthebeat wrote: »

thats pretty much it, no international involvement till next season.

but free to work away with provinces.

And if he happens to tell Murray some handy information all the better

jm08

kuang1 wrote: »

I find the need to point this out a little unnecessary.

I don't think anyone in these parts believes Foley doesn't care about Munster or is maliciously leading them into the abyss. The man would probably give his left and right ball for Munster.
Unfortunately for him, love for the club does not directly guarantee an ability to lead it adequately.

I hope he does welcome Farrell with open arms. (We know he will in public, but hopefully it's not platitudes)

I think we'll all have to wait at least 5 years for an autobiography to come out from one of the current players before we've any chance of finding out all of the ins and outs of recent weeks.

His point is that Foley will welcome Farrell because he has the best interests of Munster at heart.

kuang1

jm08 wrote: »

His point is that Foley will welcome Farrell because he has the best interests of Munster at heart.

Understood thanks.

aimee1

aimee1 wrote: »

Is it gardening leave or just terms of a severance package that he gets £x on condition. If Gardening leave then that would imply he is still employed by RFU but now working for IRFU???

F1 engineers who switch teams usually get a year gardening leave so not to take company secrets and technical info to their next team.

It was quoted in the paper as gardening leave but I've no idea personally.

Basically, gardening leave is most commonly where you just work out your notice and then move onto the new role. You have to be paid for this time and I'd imagine most of these guys are on 6 months or so notice.

A non compete / restraint of trade / restrictive covenant is far less common as you can't prevent someone from making a living. However if it comes with a payment and is not unduly restrictive then it may be what is in place and the terminology is incorrect.

Podge_irl

Deleted User wrote: »

It was quoted in the paper as gardening leave but I've no idea personally.

Basically, gardening leave is most commonly where you just work out your notice and then move onto the new role. You have to be paid for this time and I'd imagine most of these guys are on 6 months or so notice.

A non compete / restraint of trade / restrictive covenant is far less common as you can't prevent someone from making a living. However if it comes with a payment and is not unduly restrictive then it may be what is in place and the terminology is incorrect.

Gardening leave isn't really working out notice - it's "working" out notice while not going anywhere near the office or doing any work whatsoever.

Podge_irl

Podge_irl wrote: »

Gardening leave isn't really working out notice - it's "working" out notice while not going anywhere near the office or doing any work whatsoever.

I didn't phrase it properly, but yes - you sit at home the vast majority of times.

The one time I've had it I had to come in for one morning a week. Still lovely to get the time off paid.

CMOTDibbler

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't phrase it properly, but yes - you sit at home the vast majority of times.

The one time I've had it I had to come in for one morning a week. Still lovely to get the time off paid.

Farrell would have had a contract terminated by the RFU. I doubt that didn't come at a price for them and a limited non-compete from him.

aimee1

Rte reporting henshaw scan showed fracture not healed so a further few weeks away from a return. Thats too close to 6n start for comfort.

Scythica

aimee1 wrote: »

Rte reporting henshaw scan showed fracture not healed so a further few weeks away from a return. Thats too close to 6n start for comfort.

And I'm proud to announce that today's debate will be how our centre pairing should be McCloskey Ringrose!!

Ding ding

aimee1

Scythica wrote: »

And I'm proud to announce that today's debate will be how our centre pairing should be McCloskey Ringrose!!

Ding ding

Noel reid & keith earls v Roberts and Davies