Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

errlloyd

Bridge93 wrote: »

I still can't really get my head around the Piutau deal. Ulster have outside backs coming out their ears and a poor enough pack and back up half backs. Surely the money and NIQ spot is better spent elsewhere?

With world class players I think you just throw your name into the mill of clubs trying to sign them, and if they show interest you find space for them. It's not like we can say "Oh actually, we have enough money for Piatau we'd prefer Arde Savea". You don't get that sort of choice, it's a simple All Blacks roulette and you sign whoever you can get your hands on.

awec

Bridge93 wrote: »

I still can't really get my head around the Piutau deal. Ulster have outside backs coming out their ears and a poor enough pack and back up half backs. Surely the money and NIQ spot is better spent elsewhere?

When you get the chance to sign a young, current All Black you do it.

There is money to be spent elsewhere, if we fail to strengthen the pack it won't be because we signed Piutau (who is taking Ludik's NIQ spot).

molloyjh

English Lurker wrote: »

Is he still going to be a regular in Irish match day squads with his move abroad? My impression is there was enough other tightheads around to make that uncertain for him. I'd agree Leinster to any of the others is a step down (arguably, even Wasps is at this point), but so's international regular to no internationals.

Maybe Moore's particular situation means he can ignore that, but there will be guys at some point in the future where they won't. In which case, money talks. Maybe Munster or Ulster couldn't have matched Wasps - but maybe they could have got close enough, particularly if Moore has to consider the loss of international match payments.

Certainly, I think it stands as a potential option in future in some form, if not in this case; I know I've heard of some incredible lowballing going out at some of the provinces (and provincial CEOs might well feel better a player goes to England than rival).

In Moores case I think if he went abroad he'd stand a very good chance of keeping his place in the Irish squad. We just don't have that many options, and particularly that many options that will still be playing in a year or two. Once Ross is gone the only international quality TH left in the country would be Furlong. White will probably be gone the same time as Ross. So the options would be to select someone like Ah You from Connacht or Moore from Wasps. Which would be a bit of a no brainer really.

In some ways that's why I think this is contract negotiations. He's in a very strong position and this highlights it.

What I would like to see (and maybe this happens already, I don't know) is that the IRFU put a max bid on a player and any of the provinces can choose to make offers up to that amount. If Leinster choose to offer less but Munster choose to offer the max then that's on Leinster.

sydthebeat

Bridge93 wrote: »

I still can't really get my head around the Piutau deal. Ulster have outside backs coming out their ears and a poor enough pack and back up half backs. Surely the money and NIQ spot is better spent elsewhere?

im not sure the whole 'nucifora' experiment is working though.

If you look at munster currently and their problems, a move like bringing in Stephen Moore would have been a loud claxton of intent from them. He'd bring leadership, order, and top level performances especially at the all important set pieces. Its not as if sherry or casey are that close to the top table with ireland. They currently have best, cronin and strauss ahead of them. And we have the emergence of Heffernan at connacht (and herring in ulster). McCarthney is contracted to connact till 2017. Wouldnt Munster, Connacht and ireland have been better off if they could have come to some arrangement where casey or sherry moved to connacht in lieu of mccartney??

If nucifora couldnt make moves such as this work then whats the point of him being there at all...

in fact has he made any significant interpro player movement??
Was the Roux / Kearney swap significant?

after that i cant think of anything at all.

awec

Don't think Nucifora has made any interpro moves yet.

molloyjh

sydthebeat wrote: »

im not sure the whole 'nucifora' experiment is working though.

If you look at munster currently and their problems, a move like bringing in Stephen Moore would have been a loud claxton of intent from them. He'd bring leadership, order, and top level performances especially at the all important set pieces. Its not as if sherry or casey are that close to the top table with ireland. They currently have best, cronin and strauss ahead of them. And we have the emergence of Heffernan at connacht. McCarthney is contracted to connact till 2017. Wouldnt Munster, Connacht and ireland have been better off if they could have come to some arrangement where casey or sherry moved to connacht in lieu of mccartney??

If nucifora couldnt make moves such as this work then whats the point of him being there at all...

in fact has he made any significant interpro player movement??
Was the Roux / Kearney swap significant?

after that i cant think of anything at all.

This sort of thing is always going to have a slow start though. You need to get players and provinces used to the idea of moving from one province to the other like that. We simply don't have that culture here right now. In your example above Casey or Sherry would have to agree to move to Connacht. 2 years ago Munster were in a European SF and last season they were in a Pro12 final. Connacht have never made Europe off their own steam and have never played a Pro12 play-off game either. What would be the motivating factor for them to agree that move?

Nucifora can't just come in, click his fingers and make things the way he wants them to be. He has to work with a load of stakeholders to get them to buy into what he wants to do and then get them actively working towards that. It's a bloody tough job. And it isn't the only thing he's trying to accomplish either. Plus he's involved in all contract negotiations.

We need to be realistic about what he can achieve and when. Hopefully we'll see a shift in the way we do things over the coming seasons, but we won't be seeing it bear fruit just yet.

.ak

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Hopefully Ulster play Payne at 15 and Joe follows suit with Ireland. A fullback who offers an attacking and playmaking threat would add significantly to the Irish backline.

I'd like to see the following backline for the 6N, but I won't hold my breath.

Murray, Sexton;
Earls, McCloskey, Henshaw, Trimble;
Payne.

I don't think Payne has the aerial nuances and kicking execution to play 15 for international level, but I would like to see that backline myself.

awec

Will we ever have the culture of interpro moves? I doubt it.

If players are going to move then why not move to England or France and get paid more?

.ak

molloyjh wrote: »

This sort of thing is always going to have a slow start though. You need to get players and provinces used to the idea of moving from one province to the other like that. We simply don't have that culture here right now. In your example above Casey or Sherry would have to agree to move to Connacht. 2 years ago Munster were in a European SF and last season they were in a Pro12 final. Connacht have never made Europe off their own steam and have never played a Pro12 play-off game either. What would be the motivating factor for them to agree that move?

Nucifora can't just come in, click his fingers and make things the way he wants them to be. He has to work with a load of stakeholders to get them to buy into what he wants to do and then get them actively working towards that. It's a bloody tough job. And it isn't the only thing he's trying to accomplish either. Plus he's involved in all contract negotiations.

We need to be realistic about what he can achieve and when. Hopefully we'll see a shift in the way we do things over the coming seasons, but we won't be seeing it bear fruit just yet.

Yeah that's how I see it.

Players wants are a massive thing as well. I.e would Moore really want to go to Munster right now?

errlloyd

awec wrote: »

Don't think Nucifora has made any interpro moves yet.

I think he moved around Cooney a bit. Remember he went to Connacht and came back to Leinster on loan.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

Will we ever have the culture of interpro moves? I doubt it.

If players are going to move then why not move to England or France and get paid more?

We won't have it without a number of things. Buy in being the most important. Buy in from the players to make the moves and buy in for the provinces to develop the talent despite the possibility that they will move.

For starters all the provinces would need to be on a relatively even base. All competing in the league and playing in Europe. That would make movement between provinces more attractive.

If we can get something like that up and running we can be even stricter on foreign based players not playing for Ireland. That would add to the incentives.

It is important that all the provinces develop talent because we can't have a situation where 1 or 2 provinces are propping up the others.

We already have a number of players playing outside their native provinces. So it does happen to an extent. We just need to make it more attractive and more constructive for all concerned. It is doable, and it is the best way to improve our strength in depth across the board.

Neil3030

molloyjh wrote: »

We won't have it without a number of things. Buy in being the most important. Buy in from the players to make the moves and buy in for the provinces to develop the talent despite the possibility that they will move.

For starters all the provinces would need to be on a relatively even base. All competing in the league and playing in Europe. That would make movement between provinces more attractive.

If we can get something like that up and running we can be even stricter on foreign based players not playing for Ireland. That would add to the incentives.

It is important that all the provinces develop talent because we can't have a situation where 1 or 2 provinces are propping up the others.

We already have a number of players playing outside their native provinces. So it does happen to an extent. We just need to make it more attractive and more constructive for all concerned. It is doable, and it is the best way to improve our strength in depth across the board.

All things being equal, the provinces with the greater populations will have to prop up the less populous. It's unavoidable.

sydthebeat

molloyjh wrote: »

In your example above Casey or Sherry would have to agree to move to Connacht. 2 years ago Munster were in a European SF and last season they were in a Pro12 final. Connacht have never made Europe off their own steam and have never played a Pro12 play-off game either. What would be the motivating factor for them to agree that move?
.

the motivating factor would be game time and future contracts, if a seasoned international was coming in obviously ahead of them in the pecking order.

saying connacht were where they were 2 years ago just goes to prove that movement of the right players inward can progress a team... something seriously gone awry at munster.

nucifora is there almost 21 months at this stage, and we havent exactly seen anything seismic yet have we.

if the threat of no international game time isnt enough to keep the likes of madigan in the country (in munster) as against money, then whats the point?
If it turns out that marty moore goes as well, then he should be frozen out of the irish squad, as a warning shot to others thinking of moving abroad. Moore is a leinster senior player, not a journeyman bench warmer or an upandcoming. These are the players we need to be keeping.

is keeping sherry or casey ahead of stephen moore actually in the best interests of munster or ireland right now considering their prediciment? you cant replace the leadership that easily.

awec

molloyjh wrote: »

We won't have it without a number of things. Buy in being the most important. Buy in from the players to make the moves and buy in for the provinces to develop the talent despite the possibility that they will move.

For starters all the provinces would need to be on a relatively even base. All competing in the league and playing in Europe. That would make movement between provinces more attractive.

If we can get something like that up and running we can be even stricter on foreign based players not playing for Ireland. That would add to the incentives.

It is important that all the provinces develop talent because we can't have a situation where 1 or 2 provinces are propping up the others.

We already have a number of players playing outside their native provinces. So it does happen to an extent. We just need to make it more attractive and more constructive for all concerned. It is doable, and it is the best way to improve our strength in depth across the board.

How do you get the provinces to all be competitive if they don't have the players?

Making the provinces competitive in the league and in Europe means signing the likes of Stephen Moore.

wp_rathead

awec wrote: »

Don't think Nucifora has made any interpro moves yet.

He helped with the Willie Faloon back to Ulster move afaik

awec

wp_rathead wrote: »

He helped with the Willie Faloon back to Ulster move afaik

That move is hardly a ringing endorsement for Nucifora.

b.gud

errlloyd wrote: »

I think he moved around Cooney a bit. Remember he went to Connacht and came back to Leinster on loan.

Cooney went on loan to Connacht but part of the loan deal was that if there were exceptional circumstances he would play games for Leinster. He lined out for Connacht one weekend and then the next weekend due to the 6 nations and injuries Leinster only had one scrum half available so he was included in the 23, (don't remember if he started or benched) and then was back at Connacht the next week. It was more a case of extradionary circumstances than Nucifora moving him around as he felt necessary.

As it happened he ended up playing against Dragons 2 weeks in a row for 2 different teams which must have been confusing for their fans

bilston

Bridge93 wrote: »

I still can't really get my head around the Piutau deal. Ulster have outside backs coming out their ears and a poor enough pack and back up half backs. Surely the money and NIQ spot is better spent elsewhere?

Yeah well it's a funny thing. As an Ulster fan I'm just really excited to see him next season, but at the same time it is a strange one. We need back rows not back three players.

Was the deal completed before Nucifora had his feet under the table? I'm surprised he sanctioned it to be honest. Pleased...but surprised...

sydthebeat

awec wrote: »

How do you get the provinces to all be competitive if they don't have the players?

Making the provinces competitive in the league and in Europe means signing the likes of Stephen Moore.

exactly

a marquee signing to get asses on seats in thomond.

Its not a prefect system, but relying on 'junior' player to pull themselves up by the boot strings in hard times can be foolish of these players disappear back into themselves. For example look at ulsters last game where three senior leaders come off the bench and all the players around them lift their game.

There are blanket benefits to signing marquee players for a couple of seasons, especially after a RWC.
When the Moore move was muted, Nucifora should have looked around the 4 provinces and identified where there was a gap (mccartney at connacht, in my opinion) and made moves to allow for movement. The benefits of the move should have been weighted up for all... and a realistic question should have been asked "is sherry or casey a realistic mid to long term option for ireland, ahead of, say, scannell or herring" and if the answer is no, then hard choices have to be made.
For munster, would moore on a 2 year deal been advantegeous, hell yes!

bilston

The other thing is the Munster pack has lost a lot of leaders, now fair enough POM is injured but someone like Moore, the Australian captain, would have brought a ton of experience to that side.

molloyjh

There is an element of chicken and egg to the whole thing though. Provinces won't get better until there is more movement of quality players to them (or they start developing more) and provinces won't attract quality players until they improve. That's what makes the job so hard and why it will take time to see the results.

Timing of contract talks need to match up if we're talking about swapping players or replacing players. And players need to be assured of game time at a new province. Madigan would have been going down to Munster to compete with Keatley, a guy who started ahead of him less than a year ago for Ireland. Would you really be surprised if he didn't want another Gopperth type situation occurring in Munster? Remember Keatley signed a 2 year deal that started this season. Had both been out of contract at the same time then Nucifora might have looked to move Keatley back to Connacht and Madigan to Munster. He may or may not have had more success there by guaranteeing Mads regular starts at 10.

But lining up contracts in itself is difficult. To line up the contracts of Madigan and Keatley would mean offering Keatley a 1 year deal last year, which he may not have accepted. Then what? On the other hand they could have offered Madigan a 1 year deal this year? But again what if he didn't accept? How many players would have accepted a 1 year contract like that?

But even if the contracts line up and the players all agree it is still dependent on the coaches agreeing as well. Agreeing to getting the player, agreeing to giving them the starts they want etc. How does that fit with the team they are trying to build and how they want to play?

There are so many stumbling blocks and barriers to getting these deals done, especially in an environment where people haven't bought into them, that you really need to be playing a long game on it.

Then there's the matter of developing talent. Provinces need to have the right development structures in place to bring guys through. That is another thing that the the IRFU/Nucifora/Schmidt are working on. This will help improve the provinces. But how do you do it and how do you get buy in for that? Munster for example needs a complete overhaul on how it develops players at every level. Are they just going to all open their doors and welcome that with open arms? Or are we likely to see people defending the parish from them boys up in Dublin?

And what if it seems that clubs seems to be the way forward in Munster? Do the IRFU put more focus on the clubs and less on the schools? But the schools hold such sway in Leinster how will that go down here? Are we again likely to see the politics getting involved there too?

This whole thing isn't a simple case of having a chat with a player and convincing him to go to a different province. It's a whole lot more complicated than that. And we haven't even begun to mention money yet.

jacothelad

.ak wrote: »

I don't think Payne has the aerial nuances and kicking execution to play 15 for international level, but I would like to see that backline myself.

His kicking out of hand is better than Kearney's. He has produced a plethora of brilliant territorial gains from accurate ROG like line kicks - when he was at 15 of course. Kearney is more likely to hoist the ball up and run after it. Payne is also excellent in the aerial stakes. He is very good at it. Let's be honest, it's not that difficult, it just takes guts and commitment. You see great catches under pressure every week in the various leagues. R.K. just does it so smoothly it's an art form.

molloyjh

jacothelad wrote: »

His kicking out of hand is better than Kearney's. He has produced a plethora of brilliant territorial gains from accurate ROG like line kicks - when he was at 15 of course. Kearney is more likely to hoist the ball up and run after it. Payne is also excellent in the aerial stakes. He is very good at it. Let's be honest, it's not that difficult, it just takes guts and commitment. You see great catches under pressure every week in the various leagues. R.K. just does it so smoothly it's an art form.

Well there is also the positional element. I've never really watched Payne closely enough at FB to judge him there but RK is one of the best FB from that point of view.

sydthebeat

id love to see what 'key performance indicators' that were set for this system and what are being met, because to an outside eye it certainly looks like its not working. No one expects harmony, but we do expect results... and in nucifora position as player development, can he point to signifcant player developments that hes had a hand in in the last 21 months?? Are sherry and casey and scannell now better players because of the stopped Moore move?

I think a huge indicator will be the replacement of reddan and boss at leinster. Will it be a simple replacement with LMCG as senior SH with NMCC and CR as reserve? Or will we see an experienced NIQ come in on an equal footing to LMCG as a mentor etc. Quite a similar choice to what happend with Moore at Munster, and as a Leinster fan if a decent NIQ move was stopped id be livid.

Bazzo

Aren't there IRFU rules against having more than one niq in a single position at the provinces? Pienaar would be taking up the scrum half spot if so.

jacothelad

Young players are going to go where the money is these days. They can see how much Sexton and Heaslip get - or at least see the numbers bandied about. Good props are at a premium. Particularly international quality tight head props. I would hazard a guess that Moore will be on about £300,000 to 400,000 at Wasps - 400,000 to 525,000 Euro.

Cronin will not get as much but it'll be a lot more than as a back-up to Kilcoyne at Munster.

Who wouldn't double their salary if they could. I once took a lecturing job at only 70% of my then current salary because I could see the opportunities of more interesting and - if you like - more 'successful' work as well as more opportunities for advancement a bit down the line. If I had been in a position to double my original salary by changing to another Institution while doing the same o.k. job of course I'd take it. I was o.k. taking a drop in salary because I knew it would be temporary and I'd have a career for 30 to 40 years, not one that might end tomorrow by being on the end of a bad tackle.

The players are blameless. They owe no one anything except themselves. The IRFU and Nucifora can make arbitrary and tight fisted offers without any come back - except to leave. I was surprised at how little it was reported that Madigan was earning.

sydthebeat

Bazzo wrote: »

Aren't there IRFU rules against having more than one niq in a single position at the provinces? Pienaar would be taking up the scrum half spot if so.

i think those rules are pretty much on a 'pick and choose basis' at this stage.

Triggs to leinster, Chisholm to munster and Van Der Merwe to Ulster are 3 examples of NIQs in 2 positions.
Bleyandaah and Gopperth is another example.

awec

Bazzo wrote: »

Aren't there IRFU rules against having more than one niq in a single position at the provinces? Pienaar would be taking up the scrum half spot if so.

That specific rule is long dead.

I think the IRFU realised that having a set of hard and fast rules was just stupid and that each case should be judged by itself within the bigger picture.

stephen_n

Bazzo wrote: »

Aren't there IRFU rules against having more than one niq in a single position at the provinces? Pienaar would be taking up the scrum half spot if so.

Project players would bypass the rule one way or the other.

sydthebeat

http://www.the42.ie/marty-moore-ian-madigan-shifting-ground-2548382-Jan2016/

topical article...

and rightly questions Nuciforas role and that of the irfu in making it attractive enough for players to move inter provincially.

Yeah_Right

Just read through the last few pages and I have to say, I don't get the love affair some posters have with Cave. He's not that good. He's a decent club level player but he's not a test level centre from what I've seen of him.

Payne is a test level centre. Before he came to Ulster he was a couple of injuries away from making the ABs for the 2011 RWC as a centre (who could cover FB).

errlloyd

sydthebeat wrote: »

http://www.the42.ie/marty-moore-ian-madigan-shifting-ground-2548382-Jan2016/

topical article...

and rightly questions Nuciforas role and that of the irfu in making it attractive enough for players to move inter provincially.

"Wasps have a new stadium, a new training facility on the way, a powerful, multicultural squad and, in Dai Young, a director of rugby whose reputation is growing and growing. "

A manager who has almost always brought mediocrity.

sydthebeat

errlloyd wrote: »

A manager who has almost always brought mediocrity.

??

2 celtic league finals and a Heineken cup semi final with the cardiff blues

and what hes doing at wasps is certainly remarkable.

Yeah_Right

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Just read through the last few pages and I have to say, I don't get the love affair some posters have with Cave. He's not that good. He's a decent club level player but he's not a test level centre from what I've seen of him.

Payne is a test level centre. Before he came to Ulster he was a couple of injuries away from making the ABs for the 2011 RWC as a centre (who could cover FB).

Yeah I can't understand how people don't see the quality of Payne at 13. His skill set there is much better than his skill set at 15 which I think as a position is a bit of a waste of his talents.

Similarly I agree that Cave doesn't step up to International level well and his inability to push ahead of Earls here speaks volumes.

English Lurker

jacothelad wrote: »

Young players are going to go where the money is these days. They can see how much Sexton and Heaslip get - or at least see the numbers bandied about. Good props are at a premium. Particularly international quality tight head props. I would hazard a guess that Moore will be on about £300,000 to 400,000 at Wasps - 400,000 to 525,000 Euro.

Cronin will not get as much but it'll be a lot more than as a back-up to Kilcoyne at Munster.

Who wouldn't double their salary if they could. I once took a lecturing job at only 70% of my then current salary because I could see the opportunities of more interesting and - if you like - more 'successful' work as well as more opportunities for advancement a bit down the line. If I had been in a position to double my original salary by changing to another Institution while doing the same o.k. job of course I'd take it. I was o.k. taking a drop in salary because I knew it would be temporary and I'd have a career for 30 to 40 years, not one that might end tomorrow by being on the end of a bad tackle.

The players are blameless. They owe no one anything except themselves. The IRFU and Nucifora can make arbitrary and tight fisted offers without any come back - except to leave. I was surprised at how little it was reported that Madigan was earning.

He should be so lucky!

Figures I've heard bandied around were £160,000 a year from Wasps vs EUR90,000 from Leinster. Basically doubling his money, but nowhere near that much - and given how he's putting his international money at risk, he mightn't end up that much richer. Depends how long Ross/White last, how quickly Conan O'Donnell goes, and how good Herbst is when qualified I guess.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Just read through the last few pages and I have to say, I don't get the love affair some posters have with Cave. He's not that good. He's a decent club level player but he's not a test level centre from what I've seen of him.

Payne is a test level centre. Before he came to Ulster he was a couple of injuries away from making the ABs for the 2011 RWC as a centre (who could cover FB).

I think the discussion about Payne and Cave has related to their performances at Ulster, rather than for Ireland.

errlloyd

sydthebeat wrote: »

??

2 celtic league finals and a Heineken cup semi final with the cardiff blues

and what hes doing at wasps is certainly remarkable.

He was manager of Cardiff for 8 years, during the period where Cardiff were the least affected of the Welsh regions by the switch to franchises. In that infancy of the Celtic league he managed two finals, fair enough, he also had some absolutely dreadful results. His reign was a real roller coaster. Same thing with Wasps, he almost got them relegated, survived. Now he's got a shed load of cash from the move to Coventry and the bond issue, but ultimately they have still lost more games than they have won domestically this season. Last year they won 11 lost 11 (same as Sale).

awec

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah I can't understand how people don't see the quality of Payne at 13. His skill set there is much better than his skill set at 15 which I think as a position is a bit of a waste of his talents.

Similarly I agree that Cave doesn't step up to International level well and his inability to push ahead of Earls here speaks volumes.

It's pretty much clear as day if you ever watch Ulster with Payne at 13 and Ulster with Payne at 15.

The latter is far, far better. It's not even questionable at this stage.

Cave is a better 13 for Ulster. Marshall is a better 13 for Ulster. It's there, plain as day in the performances. Anyone trying to say Payne has done better at 13 for Ulster than than either Cave or Marshall is 100% talking complete rubbish.

Journeyman_1

For me the Payne at 15/13 debate for Ulster is about getting their best players on the pitch. McCloskey, Marshall/Cave, Gilroy, Trimble, Payne is better than McCloskey, Payne, Ludik/Arnold, Trimble, Gilroy. Next year with Piutau somewhere in the back 3 and if Bowe comes back and finds form then I can see Payne being more useful at 13. I do think Payne is a better overall player than Marshall/Cave, but they are both better than Ludik/Arnold/Gilroy.

Mr Tickle

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah I can't understand how people don't see the quality of Payne at 13. His skill set there is much better than his skill set at 15 which I think as a position is a bit of a waste of his talents.

A few people here (myself included) have said that we'd like to see 12. McCloskey, 13. Henshaw, 15. Payne

I'm starting to wonder if Henshaw should move to 15 and have McCloskey and Payne in the centre.

As far as i can tell this has two main benefits. McCloskey and Payne can play and train together and develop a partnership.
Secondly when the time comes Ringrose can be blooded in place of Payne.

awec

Honestly, the idea that Payne is a better 13 for Ulster than 15 is as wrong as someone arguing Sexton would be a better 12 for Leinster than a 10.

It's actually ridiculous.


If Schmidt wants to continue to pick him at 13 for Ireland then that's one problem. He should absolutely not be picked at 13 for Ulster, we have at least two options who are consistently better than he is in that position, and no options better than him at 15.

molloyjh

English Lurker wrote: »

He should be so lucky!

Figures I've heard bandied around were £160,000 a year from Wasps vs EUR90,000 from Leinster. Basically doubling his money, but nowhere near that much - and given how he's putting his international money at risk, he mightn't end up that much richer. Depends how long Ross/White last, how quickly Conan O'Donnell goes, and how good Herbst is when qualified I guess.

Yeah they're the figures I've heard as well. If we're just offering him 90k then he should leave. He's a TH who is certain to make the Irish squad if he stays, and will be so for years.

awec

90k a year for an international tighthead prop.

I don't think even the IRFU would be as tight as to make that offer. That'd be pretty derisory.

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

90k a year for an international tighthead prop.

I don't think even the IRFU would be as tight as to make that offer. That'd be pretty derisory.

Don't think he's even being offered a central contract

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Don't think he's even being offered a central contract

Don't think that'd be a big issue if he was offered fair cash.

If I was Marty Moore and the IRFU offered me 90k I'd be pissed off. I wouldn't even negotiate, I'd just leave and sign for someone else.

I doubt it's true though, surely he'd get a better offer than that?

Mahatma Geansai

awec wrote: »

90k a year for an international tighthead prop.

I don't think even the IRFU would be as tight as to make that offer. That'd be pretty derisory.

What makes this worse is that due to the IRFU's rules (afaik), the other provinces (namely Munster) are unable to offer him more money. A proven Irish international TH prop like Moore is easily worth twice - if not three times - what Leinster are offering him.

irishbucsfan

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

What makes this worse is that due to the IRFU's rules (afaik), the other provinces (namely Munster) are unable to offer him more money. A proven Irish international TH prop like Moore is easily worth twice - if not three times - what Leinster are offering him.

Not true, the other provinces can make better offers when he's looking abroad. Exactly what happened with Jamie Hagan when he was going to go to the not-nots.

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

Don't think that'd be a big issue if he was offered fair cash.

If I was Marty Moore and the IRFU offered me 90k I'd be pissed off. I wouldn't even negotiate, I'd just leave and sign for someone else.

I doubt it's true though, surely he'd get a better offer than that?

It is a big issue considering the IRFU have a lot more money to work with than is available in Leinster's budget.

I don't see why we wouldn't be offering him a central contract, Mike Ross is moving back to a provincial contract according to the same article.

Bazzo

90K??? Didn't John Muldoon say in an interview a few years ago that a decent pro 12 player makes somewhere around the 100k mark? That seems ludicrous.

Teferi

The 90k figure is nonsense.