Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

.ak

Clegg wrote: »

Felipe was such a hero.

They just don't make rivalries like they used to.

Pink Fairy

swiwi_ wrote: »

Steve Hansen was rubbish at inside centre for Canterbury. Complete journeyman.

Don't think it matters a jot if ROG was vulnerable on defence himself, no bearing on whether he can coach.

When it comes to defending, the old addage springs to mind, "those who can do, those who can't, teach"

Mahatma Geansai

Some serious provincial baiting going on.

The Rape of Lucretia

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Some serious provincial baiting going on.

^ That's a poor effort at it though.

mfceiling

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Some serious provincial baiting going on.

*snigger*
*mild laugh*
*uncontrollable hysterics*

phog

I see little has changed in this thread in the week I was away.

Tbh, I think the Rugby forum is dying a slow death.

phog

phog wrote: »

I see little has changed in this thread in the week I was away.

Tbh, I think the Rugby forum is dying a slow death.

agreed, when people can post such hysterical nonsense as "I blame David Kearney for the loss of a grand slam" and completely evade any critical analysis of that point then it just becomes a place where people can soapbox without any fear of reprisal.

When people repeatedly offer soundbites and zero tangible reasoning or logic, and almost refuse entirely to engage on that level, then it becomes a fairly bizarre echo chamber of a place where unchecked nonsense becomes the level expected.

Example of a soundbite
"Dave Foley should be in the squad ahead of Muldowney. Simple"

Example of a point with some tangible reasoning
"Though Ally Muldowney has been tearing up trees this season, I feel like we're seeing this a bit too late in his career for it to make sense for him to come into the Ireland squad. Foley on the other hand is a young lock, who undoubtedly will have to improve even further to get into his own province's starting lineup, with the presence of Chisholm there. He's in a bad patch of form perhaps, but that's not unique to him (look at Sexton seemingly playing himself back into form for an example). I think that Muldowney is certainly playing better rugby than him today, and possibly tomorrow and might indeed continue for the remainder of the season, but I think the benefit to Ireland of having Foley in the squad ahead of him will be felt in future years. Realistically, neither would be required to play any games at all and we're talking about a decision about tackle bag holders and who to 'gift' experience to. In that scenario, I'd prefer the younger Foley gets invested in."

Which do you find more often on the forum?

molloyjh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

agreed, when people can post such hysterical nonsense as "I blame David Kearney for the loss of a grand slam" and completely evade any critical analysis of that point then it just becomes a place where people can soapbox without any fear of reprisal.

When people repeatedly offer soundbites and zero tangible reasoning or logic, and almost refuse entirely to engage on that level, then it becomes a fairly bizarre echo chamber of a place where unchecked nonsense becomes the level expected.

Example of a soundbite
"Dave Foley should be in the squad ahead of Muldowney. Simple"

Example of a point with some tangible reasoning
"Though Ally Muldowney has been tearing up trees this season, I feel like we're seeing this a bit too late in his career for it to make sense for him to come into the Ireland squad. Foley on the other hand is a young lock, who undoubtedly will have to improve even further to get into his own province's starting lineup, with the presence of Chisholm there. He's in a bad patch of form perhaps, but that's not unique to him (look at Sexton seemingly playing himself back into form for an example). I think that Muldowney is certainly playing better rugby than him today, and possibly tomorrow and might indeed continue for the remainder of the season, but I think the benefit to Ireland of having Foley in the squad ahead of him will be felt in future years. Realistically, neither would be required to play any games at all and we're talking about a decision about tackle bag holders and who to 'gift' experience to. In that scenario, I'd prefer the younger Foley gets invested in."

Which do you find more often on the forum?

Sticking people on ignore has the benefit of (a) ensuring you don't see their posts, (b) you don't respond to them, (c) nobody else who has them on ignore sees their posts and most importantly (d) it stops the conversation dead. By continually engaging this sort of thing it is encouraging this kind of thing.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

agreed, when people can post such hysterical nonsense as "I blame David Kearney for the loss of a grand slam" and completely evade any critical analysis of that point then it just becomes a place where people can soapbox without any fear of reprisal.

When people repeatedly offer soundbites and zero tangible reasoning or logic, and almost refuse entirely to engage on that level, then it becomes a fairly bizarre echo chamber of a place where unchecked nonsense becomes the level expected.

Example of a soundbite
"Dave Foley should be in the squad ahead of Muldowney. Simple"

Example of a point with some tangible reasoning
"Though Ally Muldowney has been tearing up trees this season, I feel like we're seeing this a bit too late in his career for it to make sense for him to come into the Ireland squad. Foley on the other hand is a young lock, who undoubtedly will have to improve even further to get into his own province's starting lineup, with the presence of Chisholm there. He's in a bad patch of form perhaps, but that's not unique to him (look at Sexton seemingly playing himself back into form for an example). I think that Muldowney is certainly playing better rugby than him today, and possibly tomorrow and might indeed continue for the remainder of the season, but I think the benefit to Ireland of having Foley in the squad ahead of him will be felt in future years. Realistically, neither would be required to play any games at all and we're talking about a decision about tackle bag holders and who to 'gift' experience to. In that scenario, I'd prefer the younger Foley gets invested in."

Which do you find more often on the forum?

It's down to people not to respond to these kinds of posts, but at the same time it's very hard on a discussion forum to leave some of the outrageous stuff unanswered.

Sometimes when it's clear that people are trolling you can either give a sarcastic response or ignore it, but some of the stuff on here, as divorced from reality as it is, appears to be genuine opinion or such a strong dislike / resentment of other players / provinces that any angle is abused.

For the most part though, I think people just ignoring and not engaging the hysterical stuff will make the forum a much better overall experience.

bilston

This should be quite an educational day for Joe. A bit like a trial match, except played over 4 games

Zzippy

Folks, if you think someone is trolling REPORT IT, do not engage. Also, some of the more recent posts have become very derogatory to other posters' opinions. Whether you think their opinion is valid or not, this forum is about constructive debate, not flame wars. Feel free to use the ignore function if you do not want to see a poster's opinions, but do not post here that you have someone on ignore. The 6N is coming up and the usual zero tolerance policy will apply. Some people would want to cop on or they will have posting privileges revoked for that period.

b.gud

Is the ignore function available on mobile? Tat how I mainly browse but have never noticed it

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Zeebo and Earls must have remembered the 6 Nations is fast approaching.

aimee1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Zeebo and Earls must have remembered the 6 Nations is fast approaching.

and they saw JS in the stand ........

Clegg

Tbh I don't like being in this thread too much because of the overt provincialism. Players good performances get ignored ignored because there's a player from your province who is also competing for the same spot.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Clegg wrote: »

Tbh I don't like being in this thread too much because of the overt provincialism. Players good performances get ignored ignored because there's a player from your province who is also competing for the same spot.

I see more accusations of provincialism than actual provincialism.

Pink Fairy

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I see more accusations of provincialism than actual provincialism.

Then you need to look closer I'm afraid

Zzippy

Clegg wrote: »

Tbh I don't like being in this thread too much because of the overt provincialism. Players good performances get ignored ignored because there's a player from your province who is also competing for the same spot.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I see more accusations of provincialism than actual provincialism.

Pink Fairy wrote: »

Then you need to look closer I'm afraid

Lads, talk about f*cking rugby, if you have a problem with posts report them, don't derail the thread with accusations of provincial BS. Posters from all provinces will always champion their favourite players, get over it.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

CJ Stander MotM for Munster. Tries for Earls and Zeebo.

Over to the other provinces now to see who we argue about later.

Clegg

I think Zebo has left things too late. He's played too ordinary for too long to merit a place in the 23. He'll be in the wider squad, but that's about it. Trimble and Earls will be the wings probably. I reckon Fitzgerald will get the 23 jersey. He's been in good form this season playing centre and he's obviously a good wing. Just have to hope his injury isn't too serious. But with him you never know unfortunately.

JPCN1

McCloskey showing real class. Needs to be in the frame for starting for Ireland. A midfield of McCloskey and Henshaw would be formidable indeed.

bilston

McCloskey/Ringrose.. what a prospect!

Clegg

Molony for Ireland :cool:

errlloyd

bilston wrote: »

McCloskey/Ringrose.. what a prospect!

Basically it's just teo Ringrose but the inside centre has much better discipline.

bilston

Clegg wrote: »

Molony for Ireland :cool:

With the injuries etc it isn't out of the question that he could make the extended squad.

dtpc191991

Tracy for me is a big one. We have looked short on young talent at hooker but he really put hishand up today, his scrummaging needs work but his lineout darts were excellent. Very encouraging.

Clegg

If Henshaw isnt quite there for the Wales game then I hope Joe would seriously consider sekecting McCloskey and Marshall in the centres. The former is one of the breakout stars of the last 12 months while the latter is coming back into the form that made him an international at such a young age.

irishbucsfan

dtpc191991 wrote: »

Tracy for me is a big one. We have looked short on young talent at hooker but he really put hishand up today, his scrummaging needs work but his lineout darts were excellent. Very encouraging.

We've actually got loads of talent at hooker. Brian Byrne would be rated ahead of Tracy by some (and did jump him in the pecking order before injury).

Honestly think we have 5 hookers in the squad currently who could all start for European teams!

bilston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We've actually got loads of talent at hooker. Brian Byrne would be rated ahead of Tracy by some (and did jump him in the pecking order before injury).

Honestly think we have 5 hookers in the squad currently who could all start for European teams!

It makes the alleged decision to veto Moore's move to Munster all the more unreasonable IMO.

irishbucsfan

bilston wrote: »

It makes the alleged decision to veto Moore's move to Munster all the more unreasonable IMO.

Unless of course the IRFU want one of those guys to move to Munster. Cronin is unlikely to want to go but maybe one of Tracy/Byrne would make sense. Maybe even Strauss.

jacothelad

bilston wrote: »

It makes the alleged decision to veto Moore's move to Munster all the more unreasonable IMO.

It was Moore who turned it down himself - allegedly.

Hagz

Munster weren't allowed offer as much as they wanted to for Moore. They still made an offer, but he rejected it.

jm08

According to Garret Fitzgerald in Irish Times today:

A substantial offer was made to Stephen Moore, which the IRFU originally turned down, and then the “persuasive powers of the right honourable Michael Cheika” came into play. “There was no issue with the money, that’s 100 per cent.”

CatFromHue

The IRFU were right to turn down a move for Moore.

You need to spend your money elsewhere than hooker.

Mahatma Geansai

CatFromHue wrote: »

The IRFU were right to turn down a move for Moore.

You need to spend your money elsewhere than hooker.

Is it any different than Ulster signing Piutau?

Flipper22

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Is it any different than Ulster signing Piutau?

He's really replacing Ludik isn't he?

If they're not playing/being allowed to play Payne at 15 they'd be pretty short at 15.

Hagz

Nucifora made it clear that Munster weren't prevented from making an offer to Moore. Just that they were limited in the amount they could offer.

sydthebeat

Hagz wrote: »

Nucifora made it clear that Munster weren't prevented from making an offer to Moore. Just that they were limited in the amount they could offer.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck......

Hagz

Hagz wrote: »

Nucifora made it clear that Munster weren't prevented from making an offer to Moore. Just that they were limited in the amount they could offer.

Sounds reasonable considering Munster's financial circumstances currently.

former total

So based on fitness, form and past selection, I reckon the team for Wales is:

McGrath Best Ross
Toner McCarthy
Stander O'Brien Heaslip
Murray Sexton
Earls Henshaw Payne Kearney
Kearney

Strauss Healy Moore Ryan Henry Reddan Madigan Fitzgerald

No great shocks. If Henshaw is out then McCloskey. Can't call it for the 6 jersey, Stander is worth a go though.

aimee1

former total wrote: »

So based on fitness, form and past selection, I reckon the team for Wales is:

McGrath Best Ross
Toner McCarthy
Stander O'Brien Heaslip
Murray Sexton
Earls Henshaw Payne Kearney
Kearney

Strauss Healy Moore Ryan Henry Reddan Madigan Fitzgerald

No great shocks. If Henshaw is out then McCloskey. Can't call it for the 6 jersey, Stander is worth a go though.

Ross and Henshaw only due back 6n week and we know JS likes his team to train on the tuesday
Ruddock and Trimble could be in the mix

Paul Smeenus

former total wrote: »

So based on fitness, form and past selection, I reckon the team for Wales is:

McGrath Best Ross
Toner McCarthy
Stander O'Brien Heaslip
Murray Sexton
Earls Henshaw Payne Kearney
Kearney

Strauss Healy Moore Ryan Henry Reddan Madigan Fitzgerald

No great shocks. If Henshaw is out then McCloskey. Can't call it for the 6 jersey, Stander is worth a go though.

Hopefully Dave Kearney will be nowhere near the team, nor Madigan. Henry is out injured and wasn't great in his last game - seems to be struggling with his shoulder. McCloskey at 12, Henshaw at 13. If Henshaw's not ready, I'd go McCloskey/Marshall rather than parachuting Payne back in.

The Rape of Lucretia

aimee1 wrote: »

Ross and Henshaw only due back 6n week and we know JS likes his team to train on the tuesday
Ruddock and Trimble could be in the mix

Ruddock and Trimble very much in the mix. I would go with both personally (Ruddock/Stander very even match rugbywise, just I wouldnt pick Stander as a non-Irish mercenary).
Earlsie, while possible, I think is odds against - both Fitz and Trimble are serious competition to him, and think both are more Joe's style of player. And he has favoured both over him in the past. I'd go with Trimble meself.

I have a feeling in me waters that Ross will bench rather than start.

The Rape of Lucretia

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Hopefully Dave Kearney will be nowhere near the team, nor Madigan. Henry is out injured and wasn't great in his last game - seems to be struggling with his shoulder. McCloskey at 12, Henshaw at 13. If Henshaw's not ready, I'd go McCloskey/Marshall rather than parachuting Payne back in.

Dave is quite a sure thing at this stage I think. And rightly so.
Mads will be very near the team. About 3m away from it on the bench. Again, a sure thing.
I'd say Fitzie is not out of the frame for the centre setup.

former total

I'd say with 90% certainty that DK will be in the 23.

Paul Smeenus

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Dave is quite sure think at this stage I think. And rightly so.
Mads will be very near the team. About 3m away from it on the bench. Again, a sure thing.
I'd say Fitzie is not out of the frame for the centre setup.

Well, that's a shame. We won't do terribly well.

aimee1

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Well, that's a shame. We won't do terribly well.

Bit like 2014 then

Paul Smeenus

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Well, that's a shame. We won't do terribly well.

Yeah, we couldn't possibly win a 6N with Dave Kea...

Oh.

swiwi_

former total wrote: »

So based on fitness, form and past selection, I reckon the team for Wales is:

McGrath Best Ross
Toner McCarthy
Stander O'Brien Heaslip
Murray Sexton
Earls Henshaw Payne Kearney
Kearney

Strauss Healy Moore Ryan Henry Reddan Madigan Fitzgerald

No great shocks. If Henshaw is out then McCloskey. Can't call it for the 6 jersey, Stander is worth a go though.

There is always, of course, la grande différence between what Schmidt will pick and what we would pick (nevertheless there are always A grade posters, or just plain jammy bastards, who get the 23 spot on).

Based on what I have seen and am seeing of the currently available players (and assuming Henshaw is ready to rock and roll)

McGrath, Best (c), Ross by default
Toner, McCarthy
Stander, O'Brien, Heaslip

Murray, Sexton,
McCloskey, Ringrose
Earls, Henshaw, Trimble

But I accept that midfield is very risky, and maybe shouldn't really be given a go against Wales, in which case either the tried and solid Henshaw/Payne or McCloskey/Henshaw.

There are also arguments for keeping faith with RK at 15 or trying JP at 15, and I must say (although I still have nightmares about his performance vs Argentina) that DK has been in recent good form for Leinster, opening the possibility of a wing spot. Luke Fitzgerald can't be forgotten either.

I would say I really hope Schmidt goes with Jackson on the bench at 10, and finds other ways to cover the centres and outside backs.

phog

I'd start Stander at 8 and Payne at 15 in a game just to show Heaslip & Rob that their names are not automatically on the team sheet.

If Payne plays 13, my wingers would be Earls & Fitz, Zebo on the bench. If Payne is at FB, then Earls to centre.