Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

I'd certainly be for moving on from Ross in this 6N. I don't believe he's better than either Moore or Furlong to me. Furlong looks ready for the step up now.

Paul Smeenus

stephen_n wrote: »

If you notice the post I'm replying to is two pages back, I only saw your more recent replies after I had posted. Trimble for my money should be ahead of Kearney as he's a better winger but in terms of form DK is currently probably the most in form of our wingers. Given that there's a strong chance Luke may start at 12 in the absence of Henshaw against Wales, as McCloskey has had pretty much no exposure to Joe or Ireland's systems. On past selections it's unlikely McCloskey will start. This means the three wingers in the shake up are Earls, Trimble and Kearney, Zebos form should have him out of contention. It's a strong possibility out of those three Earls will bench due to far greater versatility. This would mean DK starts. Even if Earls starts DK will bench, so there is no reason to assume DK shouldn't be in the 23 or even starting. Given injuries and form at this time!

Not only has McCloskey been around Joe before, a quick Google will bring up a quote from Joe saying he fitted into the systems very well.

He could start Fitz at 12. And there's a million ways to justify any decision. But I'll be honest, the word that's suggested by that selection - imho - would be "stagnant." If Joe's system is not evolving - If everyone doesn't have homework to do and new stuff to get their heads around- it won't matter who's on the pitch, we'll get our behinds handed to us.

Joe has been gone from Leinster for three years now. I know you're not arguing this - your position is entirely consistent - but the "no exposure to Joe" thing is now as much of a barrier to young Leinster players - Ringrose, Furlong - as anybody else.

Paul Smeenus

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Not only has McCloskey been around Joe before, a quick Google will bring up a quote from Joe saying he fitted into the systems very well.
...

I could only find reference to him being called up for that 24 hour camp

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I could only find reference to him being called up for that 24 hour camp

He was definitely in Ireland camps last season, I'm not going to try find a reference to it but I can clearly remember it.

I recall being fairly shocked at his exclusion

Yeah_Right

bilston wrote: »

With regards to McCloskey, I'd say the truth is Schmidt himself doesn't even know if he will pick him for Wales yet. He will wait and see how he fares in training. If he goes well then has every chance of starting, if he takes a while to adapt to Schmidt's thinking he will have to bide his time.

This is spot on. I've said it before, good performances in club games will get them into the training squad. How they perform at training will decide if they get into the match day squad. I hope McCloskey pushes his way into the test side. I'd go him and Payne in the centres.

former total

McCloskey has never been in an Irish camp prior to the last one.

People might be thinking of emerging Ireland?

former total

former total wrote: »

McCloskey has never been in an Irish camp prior to the last one.

People might be thinking of emerging Ireland?

He mightn't have been named in a squad or really considered for selection but I am certain he spent time with the wider squad last season. So did Ringrose.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Yeah_Right wrote: »

This is spot on. I've said it before, good performances in club games will get them into the training squad. How they perform at training will decide if they get into the match day squad. I hope McCloskey pushes his way into the test side. I'd go him and Payne in the centres.

Any lingering doubts about Payne and Henshaw's fitness will make any decisions impossible for the time being. Payne played 70 minutes yesterday but it remains to be seen how he recovers after. Henshaw has played 3 games since the WC.
If they were both fit and playing I'm sure Schmidt would have his starting 15 written down already.

Paul Smeenus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I could only find reference to him being called up for that 24 hour camp

He was being looked at last year. This is from May 2015:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/joe-schmidt-looks-for-advice-as-he-tries-to-decide-world-cup-squad-1.2230668

"...but to get Stuart McCloskey in was really good value and he has slotted in with ease.” Before he was selected for Emerging Ireland.

aimee1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Any lingering doubts about Payne and Henshaw's fitness will make any decisions impossible for the time being. Payne played 70 minutes yesterday but it remains to be seen how he recovers after. Henshaw has played 3 games since the WC.
If they were both fit and playing I'm sure Schmidt would have his starting 15 written down already.

Henshaw is due another scan on the 26th/27th of this month according to the media release by connacht last week.

Ross, according to Guy Easterby isnt due back until the first week in February which I reckon rules him out of the first game, maybe two.

Payne will play this friday and if he gets through that then I reckon he will be part of the 35 man squad.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

aimee1 wrote: »

Henshaw is due another scan on the 26th/27th of this month according to the media release by connacht.

Payne will play this friday and if he gets through that then I reckon he will be part of the 35 man squad.

Even depending on which one is/isn't fit for the opening game could impact Schmidt's decisions. As far as I'm aware Payne has never played 12? So if Henshaw was to be ruled out for Wales you're looking for someone to play 12 which you'd think puts McCloskey in the front seat.
If Payne suffers a set back after playing yesterday and Henshaw is available, he can play at 13 but never has at international level so you can leave him at 12 and play someone else at 13 which maybe rules McCloskey out or you could risk moving Henshaw out to 13 and playing someone else at 12.

Point being we can speculate all we like, and I'm sure we will, but until Schmidt has the players in camp and knows who is or isn't fit there's just too many variables to be able to say anything with any certainty. (Other than Earls shouldn't be in the discussion for centre)

.ak

If henshaw isn't fit it's a great opportunity for Stuart, and it'll also mean Payne will have to play even if not 100%

A fully ulster midfield has been a longtime coming tbh.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

.ak wrote: »

If henshaw isn't fit it's a great opportunity for Stuart, and it'll also mean Payne will have to play even if not 100%

A fully ulster midfield has been a longtime coming tbh.

Why stop at midfield? If only Pienaar was Irish.....

Jackson, Gilroy, McCloskey, Marshall, Trimble, Payne.

aimee1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Why stop at midfield? If only Pienaar was Irish.....

Jackson, Gilroy, McCloskey, Marshall, Trimble, Payne.

Paul Marshall ???

Paul Smeenus

aimee1 wrote: »

Paul Marshall ???

Finally! Some sense being spoken on this board!!

International breakthrough for Clive Ross?

awec

aimee1 wrote: »

Paul Marshall ???

Lol, he can buy his Ireland jersey in a shop like everyone else.

Utah_Saint

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Why stop at midfield? If only Pienaar was Irish.....

Jackson, Gilroy, McCloskey, Marshall, Trimble, Payne.

Would be a great 6n back line. With Olding on the bench

The Pheasant2

How many roughly will be brought into the training squad?

aimee1

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

How many roughly will be brought into the training squad?

35 man squad to be announced sometime this week assembling next Monday at carton house.

The Pheasant2

Props: McGrath, Healy, Kilcoyne,
Moore, Furlong, Ross, White

Hookers: Best, Strauss, Cronin

Locks: Toner, McCarthy, Ryan, Foley/O'Connor/Muldowney

Backrow: Stander, O'Brien, Heaslip, Ruddock, Henry

SH: Murray, Reddan, Marmion,
OH : Sexton, Jackson, Madigan
Centre: Mccloskey, Henshaw, Marshall, Payne

Wing: Trimble, Fitz, Earls, DK, Zebo

FB: Kearney

stephen_n

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Not only has McCloskey been around Joe before, a quick Google will bring up a quote from Joe saying he fitted into the systems very well.

He could start Fitz at 12. And there's a million ways to justify any decision. But I'll be honest, the word that's suggested by that selection - imho - would be "stagnant." If Joe's system is not evolving - If everyone doesn't have homework to do and new stuff to get their heads around- it won't matter who's on the pitch, we'll get our behinds handed to us.

Joe has been gone from Leinster for three years now. I know you're not arguing this - your position is entirely consistent - but the "no exposure to Joe" thing is now as much of a barrier to young Leinster players - Ringrose, Furlong - as anybody else.

Has McCloskey had much time with Irish squads? I was under the impression he has had very limited time with the expanded squads? That could be wrong and he might have more time than I Think. He is exactly the sort of 12 Joe likes and would be a great addition to the team, I'm just thinking going on what we know, experience may win out given its Wales. I honestly couldn't see Ringrose make it anywhere beyond the extended squads but Furlong might, given the greater need.

Paul Smeenus

stephen_n wrote: »

Has McCloskey had much time with Irish squads? I was under the impression he has had very limited time with the expanded squads? That could be wrong and he might have more time than I Think. He is exactly the sort of 12 Joe likes and would be a great addition to the team, I'm just thinking going on what we know, experience may win out given its Wales. I honestly couldn't see Ringrose make it anywhere beyond the extended squads but Furlong might, given the greater need.

Dunno. He's certainly had more time with the squad than Ringrose, Furlong or Stander. I suppose we'll see.

former total

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Dunno. He's certainly had more time with the squad than Ringrose, Furlong or Stander. I suppose we'll see.

Tadhg Furlong? No, he hasn't.

the baby bull elephant

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Dunno. He's certainly had more time with the squad than Ringrose, Furlong or Stander. I suppose we'll see.

No he hasn't...

Paul Smeenus

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

No he hasn't...

Yeah, sorry, getting myself confused.

Paul Smeenus

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Yeah, sorry, getting myself confused.

Ha ha of course he hasn't - Furlong's capped. Getting my tightheads backwards there...

stephen_n

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Dunno. He's certainly had more time with the squad than Ringrose, Furlong or Stander. I suppose we'll see.

What ever about Stander Ringrose hasn't got a snowballs, I'd also imagine Ruddock will start ahead of Stander for the very reason of experience.

shootermacg

stephen_n wrote: »

What ever about Stander Ringrose hasn't got a snowballs, I'd also imagine Ruddock will start ahead of Stander for the very reason of experience.

Yeah sure lmao!

Tox56

shootermacg wrote: »

Yeah sure lmao!

https://youtu.be/dljJ1VNWLi4?t=23s

As this 10 second video clip comprehensively proves, Stander shouldnt even be starting for Cork Con let alone Ireland

Paul Smeenus

stephen_n wrote: »

What ever about Stander Ringrose hasn't got a snowballs, I'd also imagine Ruddock will start ahead of Stander for the very reason of experience.

I'd like to see Stander against Italy. How soon was it after he became IQ that Payne started to feature?

stephen_n

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I'd like to see Stander against Italy. How soon was it after he became IQ that Payne started to feature?

I'd say Stander and McCloskey may start against Italy. Don't think Payne would have started a 6N game against Wales as his first match though. Plus we had very little option at that point.

shootermacg

Tox56 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/dljJ1VNWLi4?t=23s

As this 10 second video clip comprehensively proves, Stander shouldnt even be starting for Cork Con let alone Ireland

Unfortunately, its inadmissible, he scored 2 tries shortly after lol.

molloyjh

Harley Uptight Light wrote: »

He was definitely in Ireland camps last season, I'm not going to try find a reference to it but I can clearly remember it.

I actually didn't know that. The more time he's had in camp the greater his chances are of selection. I can definitely see him getting capped in the 6Ns if he can deliver in training.

bilston

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I'd like to see Stander against Italy. How soon was it after he became IQ that Payne started to feature?

I think Payne played straight away after qualifying. Think it was against SA.

.ak

shootermacg wrote: »

Yeah sure lmao!

I presume that's the above clip is the only time you've seen Ruddock play?

.ak

bilston wrote: »

I think Payne played straight away after qualifying. Think it was against SA.

Yeah I think so. The guy was actively sought out over seas to replace bod. The irfu were counting down the minutes.

It's not the same situation with stander at all.

jacothelad

aimee1 wrote: »

Paul Marshall ???

:D:D..great for the last 15 minutes when chasing something - otherwise I'd rather have Mike Ross at 9

jacothelad

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

How many roughly will be brought into the training squad?

I actually think they'll all be treated gently - certainly at first....:D:D:D:D

Sorry. Couldn't resist. Getting cabin fever from this shyte weather.

jack01986

Any ideas when the squad will be announced?

former total

jack01986 wrote: »

Any ideas when the squad will be announced?

2.30 pm

jack01986

former total wrote: »

2.30 pm

Thanks for that.

vienne86

RTE just said 'within the next half hour' for the announcement, with Rory Best as front runner to be captain.

b.gud

I wonder how disappointed are the mods that the ddos attack got sorted before the announcement

.ak

b.gud wrote: »

I wonder how disappointed are the mods that the ddos attack got sorted before the announcement

:mad:

vienne86

vienne86 wrote: »

RTE just said 'within the next half hour' for the announcement, with Rory Best as front runner to be captain.

If one or two rumours I'm hearing are true:

kuang1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If one or two rumours I'm hearing are true:

Best captain being one?
Any others?

Bazzo

kuang1 wrote: »

Best captain being one?
Any others?

McCloskey? Stander? There are quite a few potential grenades.

irishbucsfan

Ultan Dillane is a shock

vienne86

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/36692.php#.Vp-aUSqLTIU